On the Nature of StC Super Sonic

[Tani Coyote]

While there's the Sonic the Comic Online thread here, this is more about a question regarding the continuity in general, so I reasoned it deserved its own thread. So, ahem, here we go!

Super Sonic has gone from being a wild, mindless extension of Sonic's destructive tendencies, to a fully sentient, independent being, to a kind, gentle being, all the way back to being part of Sonic.

Now the crux of the debate: what happened to him?

As in, did he "die" in the sense of losing his independent mind? While Sonic stated that he was going back to non-existence and Nigel Kitching's letters referred to the merging as Super Sonic being destroyed, did Super Sonic truly go away forever and become a part of Sonic in mind and soul as much as body?

Let's consider some points supportive of him retaining an independent capacity:

-He was already developing his own personality while still inside Sonic's body to begin with. Originally he really was just Sonic having lost his sense of self-control, but increasingly become more sadistic.

-He's a Chaos super being. Surely he'd have a means of preserving his independent thoughts even after his absorption.

-Let's also notice that he refers to Sonic in the third person in StCO. This would indicate he considers himself a separate being, albeit one chained to Sonic's body. Now, whether that means he is "born" again with each encounter, or retains his independent train of thought when not active is up to debate.

I'm of the opinion that if Super Sonic maintains his independent thought, it would lead directly into his transformation into Iblis - if he could somehow stack the deck so Sonic lost his resolve to put him back in timeout, then he would remain on the outside indefinitely...

As a corollary, what became of the good Super Sonic?

While many are convinced he didn't genuinely exist, the fact he moved so selflessly to assist those people in the train makes me think otherwise. He also retained his full memories - he'd know the satisfaction of being evil from them, yet still denied such dark urges.

I'll cite quasi-canon in favor of him still existing in some form: Nigel Kitching himself stated that Ebony took Super's demise way too passively. This would indicate that she somehow kept him from perishing entirely. ...or maybe she's just a moron. Could be either.

I like the idea, proposed by Kitching, that the good Super Sonic's personality now resides within Ebony's heart. Unfortunately, if it does, she doesn't seem to understand that. (Though one theory I have is that if he is in fact inside her, he's trying to get her to look for him there; this has had the unintentional side effect of amplifying her desire to have him back to the point of obsession, hence her recklessness with powering up Sonic at every opportunity)

I personally consider the good Super one of two things: a) he is made from good or neutral chaos energy, which is vastly outweighed by evil energy (due to the ROCC experiment). So while still extremely powerful, he is no match for the evil Super should the latter be awakened. He is made from Sonic's good repressed emotions, just as the evil Super is made from Sonic's bad repressed emotions. Now, given that Sonic makes extensive use of his good emotions vs. his bad, it only makes sense that the good Super has less to work with, making him much weaker than the evil, and thus he always is defeated in the battle of wills.

...as a really random aside, what would the ramifications of Super Sonic residing in Ebony be? Would she turn Super? Be possessed? Something else entirely? (Perhaps only his personality is there, while all his power was given to Sonic)

 

Quite a lot to discuss, but please do if you have any comments or ideas!

[Mauro Fonseca]

I'm still a bit confused by the idea of Supes ending up inside both Sonic and Ebony, but eh. I think it's fair to assume Super didn't die- he was already a different personality of sorts, even when trapped inside Sonic. If the good Super Sonic, caused by the...

 

Actually, hold on. I always assumed Super Sonic was bad because he was Sonic, plus Chaos Energy, which is inherently bad. So how does removing the Sonic element make the Chaos Energy good? Bit of a clusterfuck.

 

Hmm.

 

Yeah I'm going with what you say. Super feeds on repressed stuff, losing his memories meant there was nothing repressed to use, when returning to Sonic there's a feed of emotions again, so pandora's box is open. Good Super, if anything, should be gone, but Ebony nor Kitching thought that, apparently.

 

Herm. Maybe it'd be best to ask him if he had any plans for Super.

[MamboCat]

You know I'm gonna reply to this; STC and Super discussion?! Heeeelll yes!

 

I don't think Super lives in Ebony in a literal sense - I think that his memory is preserved in her heart and this is reflected in her quest to bring him back. Ebony in STCO seems to think she can resurrect her friend Pacifist Supes by applying Chaos Energy to Sonic, and her last appearance seems to imply that she doesn't care if Sonic disappears in the process. I find this fascinating in the context of Silver's future. Perhaps Ebony unleashes Super Supes from Sonic and he goes on a massive rampage for being trapped in his former corporeal prison again (Corporeal prison?! Can you tell I've been playing Legacy of Kain?! XD)

 

Anyways he does have an interesting character development, one of the reasons why I prefer STC's version to all the others. He starts off as the mindless superpowered version of Sonic but becomes the more and more murderous version the more Chaos Energy he absorbs. When he loses his powers he becomes the pacifist Super who Ebony misses, so perhaps it is the energy which makes him the evil, bloodthirsty maniac we all know and wuv. :3 I'm not so sure how much of it is because of STC Sonic's abrasive personality and repressing fears.

Edited March 14, 2013 by MamboCat

[Tani Coyote]

I'm still a bit confused by the idea of Supes ending up inside both Sonic and Ebony, but eh. I think it's fair to assume Super didn't die- he was already a different personality of sorts, even when trapped inside Sonic. If the good Super Sonic, caused by the...

 

Actually, hold on. I always assumed Super Sonic was bad because he was Sonic, plus Chaos Energy, which is inherently bad. So how does removing the Sonic element make the Chaos Energy good? Bit of a clusterfuck.

 

Well, if I recall, I discussed this with Seimudh MacDonald, one of the writers for STCO; if I remember right he figured that since Super Sonic is made of energy, an EMP will affect him just as much as any electronic. So he presumed that it basically disrupted his "biology" and thus explains why he's rendered docile and good. It's basically like someone cut a nerve in his brain; the "Destroy everything!" mania is no longer influencing his thoughts and he becomes harmless.

 

Yeah I'm going with what you say. Super feeds on repressed stuff, losing his memories meant there was nothing repressed to use, when returning to Sonic there's a feed of emotions again, so pandora's box is open. Good Super, if anything, should be gone, but Ebony nor Kitching thought that, apparently.

 

It seems a lot of it was just tapping into the energy outright; provided Super Sonic wasn't using his power he remained friendly after the whole EMP incident. Once he did tap into it though, he became just as mad and sadistic as he'd been since the Running Wild story.

 

Herm. Maybe it'd be best to ask him if he had any plans for Super.

 

He's an active member of the community so I really should check in on his questions thread over at the STCO boards sometime...

 

You know I'm gonna reply to this; STC and Super discussion?! Heeeelll yes!

 

I figured I may as well bring this pet topic of mine up here and see what others have to say!

 

I don't think Super lives in Ebony in a literal sense - I think that his memory is preserved in her heart and this is reflected in her quest to bring him back. Ebony in STCO seems to think she can resurrect her friend Pacifist Supes by applying Chaos Energy to Sonic, and her last appearance seems to imply that she doesn't care if Sonic disappears in the process.

 

Yeah, she has levels of crazy that make Sonic Adventure 2's Shadow seem sane. The fact she doesn't use her reasoning power to understand powering Sonic up is a bad thing is the sad part.

 

It's not hard to approach this scientifically; she'd just have to repeat what caused him to come about in the first place. She just has to power Sonic up, suck out the energy with a star post, and then hit the newly-separated Supes with an EMP blast. Logically he'll quickly lose his powers and memories...

 

Heartbreak if he doesn't remember her at all. Kind of makes one wonder if he'd be the same good Super or just one that was identical. Identity crisis!

 

I find this fascinating in the context of Silver's future. Perhaps Ebony unleashes Super Supes from Sonic and he goes on a massive rampage for being trapped in his former corporeal prison again (Corporeal prison?! Can you tell I've been playing Legacy of Kain?! XD)

 

I'm really interested to see how Silver's future comes about, actually. Is Super Sonic still in Sonic's body but is now the dominant personality, or did he get a separate body and find an infinite power source? What happened to the Gray Emerald to keep it from being used against him?

 

Sounds like some sort of master plan went horribly, horribly wrong.

 

(I know I'm gonna get shot for this but I always like the idea that if Super Sonic maintains his independent though, he's slowly edging Sonic towards behavior that would lead to his eventual re-release... he shows reasoning power on rare occasions, and that kind of makes him even scarier as a character I think!)

 

He starts off as the mindless superpowered version of Sonic but becomes the more and more murderous version the more Chaos Energy he absorbs.

 

I always liked that part. One can attribute it to different writers but it seemed he became more sadistic come the Running Wild arc. In his early appearances he seemed entirely focused on destroying something Sonic was thinking of, or doing something that would boost his ego; he was nothing but a superpowered Sonic with no self-control. In later versions destruction became secondary: he wanted to make sure everyone in Sidewinder's mansion suffered slow painful deaths, and likewise showed a concern he might kill everyone too quickly in the Chaos arc.

 

When he loses his powers he becomes the pacifist Super who Ebony misses, so perhaps it is the energy which makes him the evil, bloodthirsty maniac we all know and wuv. :3

 

He does call it "the Demon," just as Sonic does... so it makes one wonder if there is some third personality in play between the two!

 

Granted if that's the case we're increasingly entering Majin Buu territory since he had the same exact split personalities problem in DBZ! Complete with constantly separating and recombining with them!