Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Rusty Spy]

Did you honestly read the quote that I brung up when making this statement? Not trying to be rude, I'm just a bit curious.

BlackLighting said that all games had to do to be good games was not to do what 06 has done. 

You can put cheese on a hamburger, but if you burn the hamburger no ones gonna want to eat it.

[Komodin]

Did you honestly read the quote that I brung up when making this statement? Not trying to be rude, I'm just a bit curious.

BlackLighting said that all games had to do to be good games was not to do what 06 has done. 

 

... That's just hyperbole on his part. Of course it'd take more than just meeting that extremely basic requirement to make a good game.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Oops, I was supposed to put my name in there. Sorry about that. I'd change it but the insert line won't go into that section of the quote for some reason...

If that's the case, then erase it altogether.

 

I will NOT accept being the voice of your opinion and having mistaken members view me as such.

Fix that or I will report you.

[Tara]

If that's the case, then erase it altogether.

 

I will NOT accept being the voice of your opinion and having mistaken members view me as such.

Fix that or I will report you.

The "report" feature is not to clear your reputation or to sic a mod after someone for your own personal reasons.  Granted, you're more than welcome to kindly ask they rectify a situation, but we don't tolerate threatening to report someone as though it obligates us to do anything anymore than we do actually violating the rules.

 

Anyway, DBZhedgy, do please edit your post if you haven't already.  If not I'll just edit for you, whichever one comes first. ^.~

[DBZHedgy]

Just because people bought Secret Rings does not mean that all of them were Sonic fans and even Sonic fans who did buy the game actually still had some amount of hope that "That" game would be better than the the 2006 Rush Job...some fans would just wait for the next Sonic game that seems like it would have promise that it could live up to. To the fans who Despised '06 and didn't care for Secret Rings which was a spin-off made by only a portion of Sonic Team staff, that game was Sonic Unleashed and it gave them the willingness to come back to the series. Cannot blame the fans for coming back to Unleashed, it was the 1st game in a long time to be an almost completely Solid experience to the player, the game-play and level design were both fast and fun, the music was top notch, the story wasn't pretentious or melodramatic, and it felt like a Breathe of Fresh air to the games from 2007 back to 2003. While not many fans may like Unleashed as much as they used to, you can only sum up why they did in one sentence..."Its NOT Sonic the Hedgehog 2006."

 

Also wondering why people think the series fell into a bottom-less pit at that point, once again you can't blame them. Its not like they have any reasons for thinking Sonic Team could redeem themselves from the quality dropping from Sonic Heroes, to Shadow the Hedgehog, and finally to Sonic '06 at the very bottom. They had no reason to think that it could happen because it had been happening with each game release...the only way they could see otherwise was if Sonic Team actually proved themselves by making an enjoyable higher quality game than anything from 2003 - 2007. That's what Sonic Team did.

Your missing my initial point. 

Fans DIDN'T decline from the franchise as they said they did. If the game had nearly as much impact as people say the game had, then those games wouldn't have as many copies sold. 

The "report" feature is not to clear your reputation or to sic a mod after someone for your own personal reasons.  Granted, you're more than welcome to kindly ask they rectify a situation, but we don't tolerate threatening to report someone as though it obligates us to do anything anymore than we do actually violating the rules.

 

Anyway, DBZhedgy, do please edit your post if you haven't already.  If not I'll just edit for you, whichever one comes first. ^.~

Okey Pokey

[Blacklightning]

And ANOTHER statement worth noting is that very many games HAVE done what 06 has done, and their not terrible. That Statement was a fallacy in itself.

Separately, not simultaneously, and not nearly as badly. Awfulness is not binary - there are different kinds of awfulness, and some are not quite as awful as others. Why you have to hold everything on level ground by cherry picking certain aspects of them and comparing them to things '06 has done all at once, in the same game, is something I'm struggling to comprehend here, because quite frankly it could be truncated to "stop liking what I don't like" and it would make just as much sense. Look, I get it. You like 06. You hate most other games. But this does not make them equal in appeal, and the sooner you realize this the happier you and us will be for it.

 

Yeah I know I said I was done. But being backchatted after the fact is downright rude.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Okey Pokey

So, could you please get around to editing out that error? It's been several hours.

[DBZHedgy]

You can put cheese on a hamburger, but if you burn the hamburger no ones gonna want to eat it.

Not unless it was only mildy burned, and the taste of the burger was intact with a mild charred taste.

Separately, not simultaneously, and not nearly as badly. Awfulness is not binary - there are different kinds of awfulness, and some are not quite as awful as others. Why you have to hold everything on level ground by cherry picking certain aspects of them and comparing them to things '06 has done all at once, in the same game, is something I'm struggling to comprehend here, because quite frankly it could be truncated to "stop liking what I don't like" and it would make just as much sense. Look, I get it. You like 06. You hate most other games. But this does not make them equal in appeal, and the sooner you realize this the happier you and us will be for it.

 

Yeah I know I said I was done. But being backchatted after the fact is downright rude.

Uh, I never said that I hated the games that I've brang into question.

I've said several times that I don't care whether or not people hate the game. I just wan't to make sure it isn't for stupid reasons.

 

Oh for God's Sake, it's a freakin' forum. Making a statement and saying "Oh I'm leaving so you can't respond to it" doesn't mean someone can't respond to it. 

[FriendBot]

In all honesty, Sonic 06 was bad because of how unfinished the entire game was. I haven't encountered any glitches except there was that one time where I was at the whale chase section in Sonic's Wave Ocean and for some reason, the bridge didn't load so I died. The story itself was unfinished as well, if the writers have put in more thought into the story it wouldn't be so convuluted.

[Nepenthe]

And I'm a bit confused about Art being subjective. Both the Artist and Observer make/observe that art because of their emotions, feelings and opinions. I may be getting the wrong impression, if I am could you re-enunciate?

 

The point is this: the fact that you found Sonic 06 fun doesn't actually mean anything towards noting the game's technical qualities. It factually is a badly put-together game. That doesn't mean you can't have fun with it and explain why you had fun with it, and that's a valid discussion to have, but you literally cannot make the argument that it is well put-together, simply because it isn't.

 

You cannot make this argument because art is not some manifestation of pure subjective emotion and nothing else. It may come from a place of feeling and opinion, but that is not enough to actually create good art. You have to actually know the rules of your chosen medium-- and there are rules for every medium as to how to make something technically competent, otherwise art would be impossible to teach-- and you have to have the capability, knowledge, and work ethic to physically produce the art in question. Thus, art is not entirely subjective. The artists' and audiences' feelings are, but the work itself is not. It is unchanging and bound to rules.

[Blacklightning]

Uh, I never said that I hated the games that I've brang into question.

I've said several times that I don't care whether or not people hate the game. I just wan't to make sure it isn't for stupid reasons.

"Because it sucks" isn't a stupid reason.

 

Oh for God's Sake, it's a freakin' forum. Making a statement and saying "Oh I'm leaving so you can't respond to it" doesn't mean someone can't respond to it.

Should I start calling you naughty names, then? Sure, it's rude, but you haven't technically disallowed it.

[DBZHedgy]

I feel legitimately sorry for whoever had the misfortune to be introduced to the franchise by Sonic '06 of all games. That's all I really have to say on the matter.

There you go being condescending again... 

 

But the glitch you mentioned involved "safety rails", not loops. I'm not sure where the correlation is supposed to start here.

Safety Rails and Scripted Sections. In fact, the Loops in Sonic 06 that make you fall at the end of wave ocean's mach speed section have safety rails. They are the reason you fall off.

 

This whole argument falls apart when you realize these things are unacceptable in the first place - much less over half a decade after the fact when they've had more than ample time to learn from it.

You can say as much as you like that having these moments happen in a different game is unacceptable, but I still haven't seen any reference where there's a forum, discussion, or video where someone is completely pricking and prodding every little problem out of the game. It's done because it's hated almost universally. And it's NIT PICKING. Games that have bad programming and oozing amounts of glitches are still adored by many people. Skyrim is one of these. People only act this way because people know that they will be backed by several other people. This forum is a pretty good example of that. Just because you think the game is an utter failure doesn't mean that it really is. 

It's all emotion based. If the game is extremely glitchy, than it's ok as long as the player isn't upset by it. Sometimes it isn't even exclusive to games that are glitchy. Any game in general that upset you will result in the person finding everything wrong with the game and throwing it into someone's face. 

 

Because there's more of it. This isn't a simple issue of one petty flaw dragging the entire game down, this is an issue of loads apon loads of them snowballing into a collosal ball of shit. And yes, even on an invidiual basis there are a whole lot of things that '06 still does worse than its predecessors, even when you count out the fact that SA1 at least has age to be excused by. If it seems like nitpicking to you, at best it's because nobody can be fucked to compile a singular list of every gaming sin '06 has performed, and at worst it's because they're counterpoints to similar nitpicks you yourself have been directing towards completely unrelated games.

And what about games like Sonic Lost World which have numerous glitches that crash the game, or locks the game aren't snowball effects either? It isn't to say that a plane can't kill you more than a gigantic snowball. Their both still problems, and they should be treated the same. The Cold Truth is THEY AREN'T. It doesn't matter if it's a snowball effect or not. If these problems were really as infuriating as many people have made them out to be than they should be just as obligated to point it out in other games as they are in this one.

 

Again, SA1 and 2 cannot be excused because of the PS3 and 360 ports.

 

Ok, and what exactly does 06 do worse than it's predeccesors?

 

So let me get this straight...

Games in which contain the exact same scenes/glitches , the same type of gameplay, and the same main character, are all UNRELATED?

 

You're still missing the point. The spindash as it stands is redundant, and that is actually what I was pointing out. This is the problem. Because this is Sonic's signature move, it begs repeating, and you just don't nerf things like that if you're going to give him a similar move that is superior in every conceivable way. It clouds brand identity and pisses off the people most invested in the franchise.

Wait a minute...

Weren't you the one who pointed out the absence of the spin attack? The Homing attack is Superior to the spin attack in several ways. As such the developers omitted it. Now it's a problem that the Spin Dash is almost useless and it IS present? Your contradicting yourself.

 

The Spin Dash and the Slide are interchangeable. You use them considering your circumstance. Both moves share one feature and both have a pro and a con countering each other. The slide is slow, but it hits enemies and goes through small gaps. The Spin Dash is fast and it hits enemies but can't go through gaps. Seeing as how the game rarely have these crevices that the player can go through. Using the spin dash is more convinient because it keeps sonic running instead of almost slowing him down to a halt.

 

Are you saying you'd rather have a move that's worthless over a move that's overpowering? That's abhorrently counterproductive.

Your Contradicting yourself... again.

Having a BROKEN feature that is useful is BAD PROGRAMMING.

Having a functional feature that isn't useful isn't bad programming.

 

You don't honestly think they're talking about real world physics, do you? Sonic's physics are more akin to a rolling ball bearing than any kind of foot running, and there is almost no way to compare this way of movement to freerunners in real life. It goes without saying that they're talking about physics within the realm of Sonic's own mechanics, which were sorely lacking as far as '06 was concerned.

Momentum has been showcased in Sonic 06.

The Defying of gravity has been shown in many other Sonic games.

Sticking to walls or ceilings have been showcased in other Sonic games as well. 

 

ROLLING AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND

GOT PLACES TO GO GOTTA FOLLOW MY RAINBOW

But seriously, suggest this anywhere else and you'll get laughed at. The ability to curl into a ball and spin is literally the entire reason Sonic is a hedgehog.

You are sadly mistaken. If this were the case then Mighty the Armadillo would be the Main Character instead of Sonic, because Armadillo's are more prominent in the rolling factor than Hedgehogs.

 

Because again, '06's awfulness goes without saying and its good points don't. You should be here to tell us how there aren't fucktons of plotholes, because frankly quite the contrary is already well established here, in most other communities, and across the entire internet.

--------------------------------

DISCUSSION CLOSED.

Hypocritical. Again.

----------------------------

I was referring to the plotholes. Maybe if you would stop being ignorant and read the entire statement, you would understand...

And to top it off, the statement was referring to the plotholes that you found irritating.

 

There are such things as major plotholes and minor ones. And once again because '06 has a lot of the latter, it's a snowball effect.

Then why is it that whenever there's a Sonic Generations reveiw someone isn't saying "OMG, THE PLOT IN THIS GAME IS TERRIBLE"

That is a snowball effect as well.

 

The pacing of a Sonic game is defined in seconds, so having to sit around doing nothing but wait for a path to unfold is very awkward in practice regardless of whether or not you're physically forced into being stationary. This also isn't entirely true, because there are level gimmicks - notably the spring girders in Crisis City - which require you to hold the trigger down the entire time.

So why is it that Big is more akin to the Sonic Universe when you LITERALLY SIT THERE and fish? Silver is getting things done unlike Big. At least for Silver it's to make a path so you can proceed. Big is literally on a wild goose hunt, throughout his entire role in the game. Nothing more or Less. He doesn't even go through alternative solutions to save solutions, the literal only thing he does in his gameplay is chase or fish for froggy.

 

Are you honestly bringing those up? Whatever.

Those moments don't even last 5 seconds. How could that honestly make gameplay slow to a crawl? That's like saying that Running through loops in Sonic the Hedgehog are necessary and shouldn't be there because they deprive time from the player to actually smash badniks or collect rings.

 

And this becomes available... when, exactly? Virtually at the end of the game? Having to suffer through absolute shit in order to unlock something passable is horrible game design, and it still doesn't change the fact you're essntially required to do three things for an action that should logically only require one.

I may have worded it improperly, but the move in which I was referring to is what happens when you jump and use the square button or whatever button it is on the Xbox controller. That is available to you from the Start of the game.

 

And saying that doing three things to attack an enemy for silver is like saying that attacking an enemy normally takes two steps in Sonic's gameplay. Jump, and Homing attack, or Jump, and Land on enemy.

 

You're just begging for a Phoenix Wright reference, aren't you?

 

Skip to 2:30 or 3:00 if you want to avoid teenagers acting like retards. Here's the simple observation to be made here - Big can accelerate. Silver can't. Run side by side with any SIlver video, and you'll find that Big's top speed is higher.

Guilty as charged.

 

This still however does not prove that Big is faster than Silver. It only shows that the game has momentum physics with slopes and such.

And Again, Silver CAN accelerate. When you transition from walking and running you ACCELERATE. 

It's just as Jovahexeon has stated, it all boils down to standard speeds.

 

You yourself just said speed was a defining trait of the franchise... do you think people buy a Sonic game for slow platforming? We can indulge in pretty much any other platformer for that.

Although Speed has been a defining trait for the Sonic series, many Unleashed (daytime stages) haters go on to say that Sonic hasn't always been about speed. It has usually been about speed based platforming and platforming in general. Speed in the earlier games usually yielded spectacle.

 

And That's the main difference between Big and Silver. While Big lazily fishes, Silver gets stuff done. Big literally sits there, and Silver is constantly moving forward to meet his goal. There is always a scene in Silver's Level where the player can just watch Silver whisk by, Or destroy something huge. His Spectacle comes from his psychokinesis while Sonic's come from his speed.

 

With Big, you don't platform, you don't experience any spectacle, you don't do anything sonic related really. 

Although Silver is slow he still maintains the Platforming and the Spectacle that the games have established earlier on in the games.

 

So tell me again, how is it the inverse of big?

 

The fact that they can prevent you from attacking directly is relevant here. The fact that one doesn't counterattack is not. The game has provided two enemies that can avoid damage from an attack, so naturally the player's first instinct is to apply the tactics from one to the other. There's really nothing else to say here, besides the fact your lattermost remarks assume an awful lot of what the player expects and isn't basing this behaviour on anything the player has experienced previously in this fight.

It doesn't matter, all of the bosses in the game require you to wait for an opening. The first Boss tells you that right off the bat. Since this is the Second boss many players should associate it with this. It has been established very clearly in the gaming universe that Bosses and Enemies are two entirely different gaming structures, why would you apply what you've learned on an enemy to a boss, especially if it didn't work in the first one?

 

your lattermost remarks assume an awful lot of what the player expects

 

Isn't that exactly what you were doing? Assuming that the player would think these things before the boss fight. Being Hypocritical again. That's the third time I believe.

 

Stopped reading right here. Look, I'm sorry man, but if one has to experience glitches firsthand in order to have any idea of how to avoid them then it's already fucking horrible game design. These oversights have no reason to be there to start with, much less any right to expect the player to compensate for them.

If trail and error gameplay begets bad level design and gameplay, then every Megaman game have the worst bundles of level design to ever exist. (I love Megaman BTW)

And I never said that the programmers wanted the players to have to avoid areas because of the glitch.

 

Again, these work with tedious gameplay sections as well, not just glitchy gameplay.

Should I start calling you naughty names, then? Sure, it's rude, but you haven't technically disallowed it.

Dude... seriously? The purpose of a forum is to discuss. Why would you post something that has discussion potential in it, then say it's rude when someone discusses it???

You were literally asking for it. 

 

No, I haven't disallowed it, but the forum admins have. :/

The point is this: the fact that you found Sonic 06 fun doesn't actually mean anything towards noting the game's technical qualities. It factually is a badly put-together game. That doesn't mean you can't have fun with it and explain why you had fun with it, and that's a valid discussion to have, but you literally cannot make the argument that it is well put-together, simply because it isn't.

I know this, I've never said that the game didn't have numerous glitches, I never said that the game wasn't put together improperly, I merely questioned the idea of why it is shunned when several other games are structurally unstable and aren't entirely hated because of it. 

 

Sixth Rate Soma pointed this out to me fairly well actually, so going over it again seems a bit redundant.

 

------------------

And on a Side Note, Indigo Rush, I thought you left. Why are you ignoring the statements I've presented to you, you aren't gone, so what's keeping you from responding? 

[Nepenthe]

I know this, I've never said that the game didn't have numerous glitches, I never said that the game wasn't put together improperly, I merely questioned the idea of why it is shunned when several other games are structurally unstable and aren't entirely hated because of it.

 

As far as I've read, you have yet to bring up a game that is equally: 1) badly coded, 2) badly designed, 3) unfinished, 4) full of harmful and easily-activated glitches, 5) poorly written, 6) heavily hyped, 7) relevant to the gaming industry due to franchise power, and 8) lacking in terms of the standards of gaming relevant at the time (e.g., it has not aged badly, but was bad upon release) as Sonic 06. You have not found an example of a game that meets all of these criteria to the extent or better than Sonic 06 does. That's why it's being shunned more than other games you bring up. This isn't some big mystery.

 

Sixth Rate Soma pointed this out to me fairly well actually, so going over it again seems a bit redundant.

You asked me to elaborate.

[Blacklightning]

I'm not responding to every individual point there, because to be perfectly honest I'm completely fed up with you. So this time I'm going to keep this really simple, so things don't get lost in translation or sidetracked with your pointless nitpicking.

You can say as much as you like that having these moments happen in a different game is unacceptable, but I still haven't seen any reference where there's a forum, discussion, or video where someone is completely pricking and prodding every little problem out of the game. It's done because it's hated almost universally.

People like you are the reason media like this exists.
 
Apparently it's not enough that the internet near-unanimously agrees that '06 was a massive failing. Apparently it's not enough that it suffers from massive amounts of blatant flaws, glitches, oversights and generally crap design ranging from the petty to the borderline gamebreaking. Apparently it's not enough that it basically constitutes a "how not to make a videogame" guide by itself rather than spread out across a vast variety of games. But when people, annoyed that people who don't know better white knighting this game as if it's their god-given duty, put time, effort and dedication into compiling and chronicling every fuckup they can find to give you exactly the evidence you demand, suddenly you start complaining it's nitpicking, as if to say it's too much.
 
What the actual crap do you want from us? Do you even know?

 

And what about games like Sonic Lost World which have numerous glitches that crash the game, or locks the game aren't snowball effects either?

You have done this every post to memory in this thread. The first time you asked a question like this, the answer was "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". The next time you asked a question like this, the answer was "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". The following occasions you have asked a question like this, the answer has been "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". The current occasion you're asking a question like this, it's going to be "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". And the next time you ask a question like this, and for every following occasion you ask a question like this, the answer is still going to be "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y".
 
The real kickers here is that I already know you haven't even done the kind of research to decide that these flaws are, in fact, "numerous", and this is a figure you've pulled out of your ass on the fly to try and justify your argument. And that every time you do this it's usually referencing a single or small selection of flaws in the grand scheme of '06 fuckups, whilst having the nerve to accuse US of nitpicking.
 

You are sadly mistaken. If this were the case then Mighty the Armadillo would be the Main Character instead of Sonic, because Armadillo's are more prominent in the rolling factor than Hedgehogs.

Armadillos don't have spikes. The reason for Sonic's is that it allows him to act as a buzzsaw while spinning.
 

And on a Side Note, Indigo Rush, I thought you left. Why are you ignoring the statements I've presented to you, you aren't gone, so what's keeping you from responding?

He is allowed to still read the thread.

[Tara]

If trail and error gameplay begets bad level design and gameplay, then every Megaman game have the worst bundles of level design to ever exist. (I love Megaman BTW)

Except Mega Man isn't an example of constant trial and error.  Although some instances of ambiguous and daunting level design do exist, many of the games were programmed thoroughly well enough to ensure that you weren't thrown under the bus when a new gameplay mechanic was introduced.  The only time you ever really have to experiment (aside from when you're hunting down all the added upgrades, which aren't necessary but do make the game significantly easier) is during the boss fights, and it doesn't take that long to find an enemy's weakness.

[Spin Attaxx]

So the Status Updates, Indigo found this. Basically it's just the violins for His World. It played on the Japanese site before it first updated, isn't in the game and is apparenty hard to find. Thought it was worth posting.

 

Also from him, here's a mashup between the beta theme and the beta results theme.

[DBZHedgy]

As far as I've read, you have yet to bring up a game that is equally: 1) badly coded, 2) badly designed, 3) unfinished, 4) full of harmful and easily-activated glitches, 5) poorly written, 6) heavily hyped, 7) relevant to the gaming industry due to franchise power, and 8) lacking in terms of the standards of gaming relevant at the time (e.g., it has not aged badly, but was bad upon release) as Sonic 06. You have not found an example of a game that meets all of these criteria to the extent or better than Sonic 06 does. That's why it's being shunned more than other games you bring up. This isn't some big mystery.

 

You asked me to elaborate.

I was bringing up these points individually to see whether or not they caused an effect. Because as blacklightning and many others have stated, all of these problems are major problems on their own as well. If they really were than the examples that I have yeilded would generally cause just as much ruckus as them in Sonic 06. Since this isn't the case, then that must be a lie, or it's nit picking.

 

Oh, no I was referring to me remaking my claim on that. I thought you were making a different point.

I thought you were going to elaborate more after the statement so I was just making sure that this wouldn't generally be repeated, sorry for the confusion.

[blackwubzy]

To be honest, I didn't like Sonic '06 at all. I liked the CGI cut scenes and it had a fantastic soundtrack. But for me it was the worst Sonic game I've ever played. What I find to be the most disappointing thing about it is it had the potential to be great, maybe one of the best games made. 

[DBZHedgy]

I'm not responding to every individual point there, because to be perfectly honest I'm completely fed up with you. So this time I'm going to keep this really simple, so things don't get lost in translation or sidetracked with your pointless nitpicking.

People like you are the reason media like this exists.

My pointless nitpicking? Those topic were brought up by you in the first place. If anything their your nitpicks. Not mine.

And I am quite sure that the only reason your avoiding the other statements is because I caught you contradicting yourself and your just to afraid to admit it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Apparently it's not enough that the internet near-unanimously agrees that '06 was a massive failing. Apparently it's not enough that it suffers from massive amounts of blatant flaws, glitches, oversights and generally crap design ranging from the petty to the borderline gamebreaking. Apparently it's not enough that it basically constitutes a "how not to make a videogame" guide by itself rather than spread out across a vast variety of games. But when people, annoyed that people who don't know better white knighting this game as if it's their god-given duty, put time, effort and dedication into compiling and chronicling every fuckup they can find to give you exactly the evidence you demand, suddenly you start complaining it's nitpicking, as if to say it's too much.

Crap Design...? The Generations 06 porting project would like to have a word with you.

Again, Just because all of these things are present does not mean that EVERYTHING is terrible. There are several things which later games have done that 06 has done as well, and they are not bad. Stop being so vague.

I'm not complaining that it's nitpicking because someone didn't pick out every problem in 06, but in every other game as well. Again, it's done because Sonic 06 is almost exclusively hated, and it is nitpcking. That was a typo on my part.

 

 

What the actual crap do you want from us? Do you even know?

I've stated several times that I want to know why it's hated coupled with the statements that I have brought up.

SEVERAL TIMES

And you say that I don't read through your posts properly...

 

 

You have done this every post to memory in this thread. The first time you asked a question like this, the answer was "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". The next time you asked a question like this, the answer was "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". The following occasions you have asked a question like this, the answer has been "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". The current occasion you're asking a question like this, it's going to be "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y". And the next time you ask a question like this, and for every following occasion you ask a question like this, the answer is still going to be "because '06 has greater quantity of flaw X than game Y".

No, I haven't. 

And to be quite frank, the last time I checked 06 didn't have any glitches that locked your controller until you soft reseted, 06 didn't have glitches that could cause epilepsy and physically and mentally harm someone, and 06 didn't have glitches in which could crash your game entirely. As many times as I've seen glitch videos of 06 those 3 very dangerous glitches do not appear AT ALL. So tell me again, how exactly does 06 have a greater quantity of Flaw X than game Y? (Sonic Lost World)

I could be wrong though, correct me if i'm wrong.

 

 

The real kickers here is that I already know you haven't even done the kind of research to decide that these flaws are, in fact, "numerous", and this is a figure you've pulled out of your ass on the fly to try and justify your argument. And that every time you do this it's usually referencing a single or small selection of flaws in the grand scheme of '06 fuckups, whilst having the nerve to accuse US of nitpicking.

So your telling me that you've never seen the seizure glitch from lost world at all? There are numerous videos for it, and I've posted a video for it as well. Here you go again:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNTJImzvMM

 

And there are plenty of other glitches that DarkspinesSonic Ran into on his casual playthrough of the game.

 

 

Armadillos don't have spikes. The reason for Sonic's is that it allows him to act as a buzzsaw while spinning.

You just said that the ONLY reason Sonic is a hedgehog is because he could ROLL. That was clearly a misconception on your part. Not because he had spikes. Mighty is a character who can attack while jumping and spinning as well. There is almost no distinction between mighty and Sonic's moves except his wall jumps, that would then mean that the developers wanted Sonic to be inferior to Mighty.

 

He is allowed to still read the thread.

If I were as wrong as he claims me to be, I would at least expect him to prove my statements wrong instead of just ignoring it and still acting like he's right.

Hmm... Isn't that what you just did?

[Milo]

In all honesty, Sonic 06 was bad because of how unfinished the entire game was. I haven't encountered any glitches except there was that one time where I was at the whale chase section in Sonic's Wave Ocean and for some reason, the bridge didn't load so I died. The story itself was unfinished as well, if the writers have put in more thought into the story it wouldn't be so convuluted.

 

Allow me to retort with the tried-and-true rebuttal that "even if it was finished, it still wouldn't had been good."

 

There's a lot of things about Sonic 06 that are not only flawed in execution, but are also flawed to the bone of it's very concept. To the point that regardless if it was partially implemented or it was complete with extra bells and whistles to boot, it would still be poor all around. They could had fixed all of the bugs and glitches and many would still criticize it for poor level design, poor goal objectives, poor enemy design, poor gameplay design, etc.

 

And unlike the gameplay itself, the story isn't "unfinished" in any way whatsoever. If the story has plotholes, that doesn't mean the story is "unfinished," it just means it is poorly written. Sonic Team considered it good enough to be released as is and Sega gave their stamp of approval. The story is only "unfinished" if we don't see any sort of conclusion to the overall plot, like at any point in the story it completely stops in it's tracks before it can finish what it started.

[Indigo Rush]

You know what? Screw it.

 

If I were as wrong as he claims me to be, I would at least expect him to prove my statements wrong instead of just ignoring it and still acting like he's right.

 

At some point in time I had to consider if the debate was even worth the stress. Because at the end of the day, even if I somehow managed to get you to see the light, it really wouldn't matter that much to me on a personal level anyway. Besides, there are many other members who are willing to discuss why Sonic 06 is a terrible game with you. You really don't need me to add resistance to your one man army.

 

I've been on the forums for several years and I've seen it all. I've been in this topic and other Sonic 06 topics for the past 8 years I've been a member. I used to white knight the game myself before I finally got my hands on it. Never before have I had to swallow more pride in one weekend than the weekend I played and completed Sonic 06. I've been through it all. I've sent my emails to SEGA's reps asking them to patch the game. I've entered debates trying to defend the game for what it was. I've done everything I could to try and justify the game's worth, only to realize that I had self-imposed the game's worth based on infantile reasoning. There is absolutely no defending this game, and I had to learn it like everyone else did. I didn't even want to hate 06, and yet I find myself loathing it more and more I realize how soulless it is, glitchy, poorly designed, terribly written and everything else I'm sure you've heard before.

 

One SSMB server wipe later and I've made it a mission to try and figure out how anybody can look at this game and say that it's objectively good. Every topic, every member, every instance of discussion, every worthwhile thought that had been put into discussing this game has always left me unsatisfied. I can see why some people like it, but I still cannot find why anyone can deny that the game is terribly flawed. Not just that it has flaws, but that those flaws don't mean anything. I've even met people who completely deny the game is even glitchy. 

 

And now you show up and want me to prove it to you? You want me to spend my time to do what I've done before, over and over again, just so we can satisfy your desire to look like some revolutionary who will change the world by proving to all of us pseudo-Sonic fans that Sonic 06 is not as bad as we think it is? You want me to play your game? No. I'm done. In fact, I'm disappointed. I'm bored.

 

But above all else, SSMB is done. Do you know how done we are?

 

I repeat: do you know how DONE we are?!

 

Sonic 2006 discussion is banned outside of this topic. 

That's right. We've had so many topics, so many repeats, so many do-overs, so many white knighters and so many pointless debates that we collectively said ENOUGH. There is nothing good that can come out of this needlessly endless "debate."

 

We have this lone topic open so we can discuss Sonic 2006 objectively, so we can consolidate all information regarding the game in order to prevent it from poisoning the rest of the forums that aren't living 8 years in the past. This topic could be something much better. We could be discussing things left on the cutting room floor. We could be learning and exchanging our individual understanding of how this game is an industry-level example of what not to do when making a game. Sonic 06 is, in fact, a legendary game. It's one of the greats. It deserves it's pedestal up there with Superman 64, ET for the Atari 2600, Bomberman Act Zero, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Golden Axe Beast Rider, and so on and so forth.

 

But we can never even get to this point because all people want to do is try to explain away everything about this game as not that bad.

 

So you know? I'm just done. I'm done holding out for an intelligent and thoughtful discussion of how this piece of software has impacted and will continue to impact interactive media. I've come to the conclusion that it really isn't worth it anymore.

 

I am in no way obligated to continue playing along with your shenanigans, because no matter how many times you desperately try to convince others, I can live with the peace of knowing that I won't be spending the better part of my Saturday discussing the inner mechanisms of what makes Sonic 2006 garbage to begin with. I have a life, and I won't be spending it debating you. 

This debate has in fact taught me a lot, though. It taught me that the fanbase isn't a singular hive-mind. It taught me that even when you think you've seen it all, there's always going to be something new to blindside you and totally leave you with your jaw dropping. It brought me back to studying Sonic 06 only to find that it's even worse than what I thought it was. It taught me to laugh at the low points of the franchise instead of cringe at it. And finally, it taught me to not take any Sonic 06 debate seriously.

 

So thanks for that. I'll be sure to use this knowledge in the future. Maybe I'll write a large expose on the many problems with 06. But not anytime soon. I'm burnt out.

[MegasonicZX]

My pointless nitpicking? Those topic were brought up by you in the first place. If anything their your nitpicks. Not mine.

And I am quite sure that the only reason your avoiding the other statements is because I caught you contradicting yourself and your just to afraid to admit it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Crap Design...? The Generations 06 porting project would like to have a word with you.

Again, Just because all of these things are present does not mean that EVERYTHING is terrible. There are several things which later games have done that 06 has done as well, and they are not bad. Stop being so vague.

I'm not complaining that it's nitpicking because someone didn't pick out every problem in 06, but in every other game as well. Again, it's done because Sonic 06 is almost exclusively hated, and it is nitpcking. That was a typo on my part.

 

 

 

Okay dude, say what you will to defend the game, but don't go using a fan porting to get your point across (especially when said porting is pretty much intentionally made that way to represent the 06 experience). 

 

Edit: Also, just as an example of how the porting is done when serious about it, here:

 

 

I like 06 but even I have to admit this is better than the stage its porting over from (in my opinion) so if a porting is bad, it was probably meant to be that way (most of the time).

[DBZHedgy]

Except Mega Man isn't an example of constant trial and error.  Although some instances of ambiguous and daunting level design do exist, many of the games were programmed thoroughly well enough to ensure that you weren't thrown under the bus when a new gameplay mechanic was introduced.  The only time you ever really have to experiment (aside from when you're hunting down all the added upgrades, which aren't necessary but do make the game significantly easier) is during the boss fights, and it doesn't take that long to find an enemy's weakness.

Many cases of many of Megaman games require you to know what to do at that exact moment in order to survive. I'm not just referring to the classic Megaman's either. Instant Death Pits, random/unexpected Spike traps, Mechanisms that kill you if you're not quick enough, all arise on your first try on many stages, and it makes players have to continuously try over and over again to master it. 

The only time this isn't prominent is in the spin off Megaman Legends

[Tara]

I was bringing up these points individually to see whether or not they caused an effect. Because as blacklightning and many others have stated, all of these problems are major problems on their own as well. If they really were than the examples that I have yeilded would generally cause just as much ruckus as them in Sonic 06. Since this isn't the case, then that must be a lie, or it's nit picking.

Or, like others have stated, the execution is completely different from game to game, thus causing a different reaction.  As is, you may as well be comparing the Mona Lisa to a statue of Athena simply because they're both artistic works which prominently features women.  But they're not the same execution and as such evoke a far different response.

 

 

Many cases of many of Megaman games require you to know what to do at that exact moment in order to survive. I'm not just referring to the classic Megaman's either. Instant Death Pits, random/unexpected Spike traps, Mechanisms that kill you if you're not quick enough, all arise on your first try on many stages, and it makes players have to continuously try over and over again to master it. 

The only time this isn't prominent is in the spin off Megaman Legends

Not really?  I mean, sure, the levels can be difficult, but it's rarely ever a matter of because you didn't see it coming or because you didn't have time to react.  (Granted, I haven't played many of the more recent Mega Mans so maybe their level design has devolved over the years)

[DBZHedgy]

Allow me to retort with the tried-and-true rebuttal that "even if it was finished, it still wouldn't had been good."

 

There's a lot of things about Sonic 06 that are not only flawed in execution, but are also flawed to the bone of it's very concept. To the point that regardless if it was partially implemented or it was complete with extra bells and whistles to boot, it would still be poor all around. They could had fixed all of the bugs and glitches and many would still criticize it for poor level design, poor goal objectives, poor enemy design, poor gameplay design, etc.

 

And unlike the gameplay itself, the story isn't "unfinished" in any way whatsoever. If the story has plotholes, that doesn't mean the story is "unfinished," it just means it is poorly written. Sonic Team considered it good enough to be released as is and Sega gave their stamp of approval. The story is only "unfinished" if we don't see any sort of conclusion to the overall plot, like at any point in the story it completely stops in it's tracks before it can finish what it started.

How do you know that? There is a thing called unused media, many of the concepts in Sonic 06 could have been replaced by different concepts that all around work differently. It happens all the time with video games, and it isn't to say that Sonic games haven't gone through these changes either. You can't just say that it will because it's unfinished. There were still many things that they intended to implement which couldve made the design choice so much better. 

 

The Story could've also gone through a redux as well, you make it seem like everything that is in an unfinished game or beta version ALWAYS makes it into the final product, this is not true in MANY circumstances.