Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

If the game's level design were as bad as it is claimed to be, no one would bother porting it. 

 

I'm sorry but no. It stands to reason, they'd be better off actually trying to improve it.

[FriendBot]

And although many people did want to continue work on the game, the possibility was just out of the question since many fans didn't want anything to do with 06 again. People showed promise for Lost World and even after released majority still supported Lost World, that resulted in many patches of the game to fix it. No one really cares about plot in a Sonic game, it all boils down to gameplay, and as such the gameplay could have been improved if people actually gave it a chance.

 

And how many patches were made into 06?

 

Also, I care about story in a Sonic game, it made games like Secret Rings and Black Knight worth playing because we are intrigued on how Sonic is going to overcome the obstacles like the fire curse in Secret Rings. It is one of the advantages Sonic has over Mario, he's allowed to have a narrative.  

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

Either way, you are right, the fact that all of this was left out made me pretty sad and angry, but do you honestly think that Sega would scrap a game that took such drastic amounts of money and time spent into it? Did you honestly think that a game THIS overhyped would just be canceled? 

Nonsense. I'd expect them to delay it, and actually give it the love and care that a developing Sonic game SHOULD have in the first place, rather then water it down and shunt it out to the mercy of the panning it got. 

[Milo]

Finished means to complete a project. If things are left out, or problems arise in the duration of making the game they have the proitity to be changed! More Development Time or some other situation would guarantee that many of the assumptions that you brought up to be either incorrect, or misguided belief.

 

Game development is a rather chaotic situation. Games ususally go through dramatic changes before they are released. Problems could have arisen when going over the game again before the final release, changing these aspects must mean that there was a flaw in it originally. Fixing problem X to make Y better follows suit in fixing S T U V and W as well if they apply to it. That's practically what programming is all about. Fixing whatever problems arise.

 

How exactly do you know that this isn't the case? Half of the development team split up to work on Sonic and the Secret Rings, thus limiting their range of the game's story even more. 

 

You just stated that you were responding to SoniTH's statement on whether all of these gameplay choices were finished. Since you implyed that the game would implement everything that the game already had and finished it, that would imply that everything that is in the development would be kept in the final release. 

 

I don't even want to touch the first point because you're essentially twisting the words "finished" in your personal interpretation of them, but whatever. A game can be "finished" and not have any drastic/significant additions, changes, or deletions made to the final product. Sonic 4: Episode II was accidentally released early in what the PR claimed was a "beta" format and was released a few weeks later in a "finished" form. Hardly anything changes were made between the two revisions. Not every game during it's development can have periods of troubled productions as you are claiming here.

 

I may not be a game developer or have been with the writers when the story was being written (and I'm pretty sure you aren't, so stop leveling the "well how do you know this is(n't) the case" accusations at me), but it's quite obvious that issues with the game's story and gameplay/coding likely exist because they clearly were overlooked or were not seen as important issues by the development team, regardless what additional things that happened. Anyone can make judgements on the game under these pretenses, which going by the severity of the game's bugs and the quality of the narrative, are pretty damn reasonable.

The game was rushed in development to meet the Christmas deadline. The final product has glitches. Glitches tend to be overlooked and/or not found because the game wasn't thoroughly played by the quality assurance team. Due to the rushed nature of the development process, the game likely wasn't thoroughly bug-tested and/or saw glitches overlooked. It's not rocket science.

And leading back to my original arguments, judging how the overall package was, they could have had these features left out the moment it as proposed, half-heartedtly coded in, fully incorporated with extra polish at the last minute, and it still wouldn't had been executed well or have been detrimental to the overall quality of the game. They got momentum in the game (regarding vehicles anyway), something awaited-for-16-years-Genesis-Sonic-sequel Sonic 4 didn't have, does that suddenly mark a giant plus in the overall game's quality? No.

 

As for the last part, I never said, or even hinted, at anything regarding Sonic Team squeezing everything and the kitchen's sink into Sonic 06. Stop accusing me of implying things I never implied in the first place.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

I don't accept 06 as an uncompleted product, I accept it for a complete game and only because that was the best it was going to get seeing as how the criticism for it is so momentous.

That's a load of bull. That's the best the game was ever going to get because SEGA doomed it's rep by ushering in that stillbirth of a product. Criticism didn't seal 06's fate, the decision to handle its development so lazily did.

 

If you're going to accept it as a "complete game" because you think momentous criticism halted any efforts to patch the game, then you've got another coming from those who don't accept the fact that the blame is ALL on SEGA and Sonic Team for this. Not the critics, not the fans, and not the hatred either. They sent this ship dead-into the water and chose to abandon it as such. Nothing was stopping them from at least improving on the PS3 version which came out way later than the Xbox 360 version, yet they proceeded to do nothing with 06 to improve it.

[Blacklightning]

I don't accept 06 as an uncompleted product, I accept it for a complete game and only because that was the best it was going to get seeing as how the criticism for it is so momentous. The game had numerous problems but I would much rather be stuck for a buggy mess than nothing at all and Sonic being gone forever.

What on earth are you talking about? There was never the threat of Sonic disappearing over the course of one game, because games were still being developed in tandem, notably Secret Rings and the Rush games around the time '06 was still immediately revelevant. And even if there was any such threat, the critical reception in of itself would have contributed a lot more towards that than an outright cancellation would've - a concept we've seen in more than just theory.

 

I think I'm almost done here, but just in the interests of curiousity and perspective, I thought up a quick survey. This can apply to as many people as can be bothered or inspired to fill it out, because I think the only thing I've yet to cover is psychology on the player's part as opposed that behind the development process of the game.

 

1) Post-Saturn, and '06 inclusive, which Sonic games have you played? Where applicable, how many to completion?

 

2) To what extent do you feel '06 has been inspired by games prior, and games following inspired by it? "Being a wakeup call" is a legitimate answer for the latter, for the pessimistic among you.

 

3) '06's reputation for awfulness is legendary - that in mind, what to you stands out the most as a critical flaw in the game? Feel free to name several, if equally memorable.

 

4) Likewise, if you can name a memorable positive trait, do so. Again, not limited to just one.

 

5) Do you agree with the reputation the game has garnered over the years? Conversely, do you disagree with in any way, or outright revile, the people that don't share your view?

 

6) What drives you to discuss this game whenever the subject is brought up? Are you aware that it may be out of some misplaced sense of allegience?

 

7) Given the chance and ability, would you improve Sonic '06? Again, for the pessimistic, abandoning it outright for richer pastures is a legitimate answer.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Sonic being gone forever.

 

Less than a page ago you said this...

 

 

 

THERE WERE LITTLE TO NO FANS OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T WANT THIS GAME WHEN THE PREVIEWS AND DEMOS CAME OUT.

 

Now lets just assume for one moment, that when you were 8 years old you were on-line and participating in Sonic discussions/forums and were well aware of the mood of various Sonic fans around the world. Which means you are completely confident and capable of making that statement.

 

 

Why on earth would you then go on to say this...

 

 

 

The game had numerous problems but I would much rather be stuck for a buggy mess than nothing at all and Sonic being gone forever.

 

When back in 2006 the following games had been released.

 

Sonic Riders

Sonic Genesis 

 

Sonic Wildfire had just been announced.

 

Sonic 06 came less than a year after both Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Rush. 

 

And there was also a little fact that 2006 was also this....

 

 

So which one have you made up? Only nobody who was around in 2006 would ever say Sonic was going to be forgotten since we had tons of Sonic games out during that time period with more on the way and it was the 15th anniversary, even general videogame magazines were doing features on it.

 

 

Also....

 

 

 

They are not treated as such however, and many of the glitches that are found in Sonic Lost World are found in average playthroughs not glitch hunting.

 

Will you kindly post evidence of this.

[Celestia]

Aside from that infamous flashy glitch--which has been fixed anyway--and double-mouthed Super Sonic, there are not any common glitches in SLW that I can think of. All the videos I've seen of glitches have been things that you'll only experience by chance, or by purposefully trying to do it, kind of like how speedrunners broke the boost games constantly. Here's an example, which I dare not attempt myself:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Y9l4ie58g
 
I mean yeah, there's certainly glitches, as with most games. But they aren't as prevalent or, dare I say it, inevitable. Whereas in '06 it's nearly impossible in even the most casual playthrough to run into something that was, without a doubt, not intended by the developers. Not being able to jump off walls as Knuckles/Rouge? The big issue with Silver's throwing attack in his boss fight?? Sonic's power gauge thing not working like it's supposed to? And that's all not getting into all the weird stuff that can go down that makes a lot of '06 LPs kind of fun to watch.

 

All of this certainly doesn't excuse the bugs that are in SLW mind you, but aside from the flashy one which could have been legitimately dangerous to someone's health (and hey, that, at least, makes that one thing arguably worse than '06!!) they're not really that bad, and even if they were, it wouldn't excuse '06 at all.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

 

1) Post-Saturn, and '06 inclusive, which Sonic games have you played? Where applicable, how many to completion?

 

Sonic Adventure DX, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06, parts of Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Generations, Sonic Rush, Sonic Advance 3, and perhaps more I'm forgetting. 100%'d games include both Adventure titles, Heroes, and Advance 3; two of three stories completed in Sonic 06.

 

 

2) To what extent do you feel '06 has been inspired by games prior, and games following inspired by it? "Being a wakeup call" is a legitimate answer for the latter, for the pessimistic among you.

 

06 clearly takes inspiration from the Adventure titles, particularly Adventure 1. Beyond "being a wake-up call," I would term 06's influence on further titles to be negligible, exempting the sudden disappearance of Sonic's supporting cast following the game's reception.

 

 

3) '06's reputation for awfulness is legendary - that in mind, what to you stands out the most as a critical flaw in the game? Feel free to name several, if equally memorable.

 

It's difficult to name anything in particular that stands head and shoulders above the rest, but just about every aspect of the game's story is poorly thought out or convoluted. In terms of gameplay, the Mach Speed and Amigo sections stand out as particularly unpolished.

 

 

4) Likewise, if you can name a memorable positive trait, do so. Again, not limited to just one

 

From what I've played, Silver's campaign is the most stable of the three; if we're being generous, one could say it approached mediocrity. Music is tolerable at worst and quite fine at best.

 

 

5) Do you agree with the reputation the game has garnered over the years? Conversely, do you disagree with in any way, or outright revile, the people that don't share your view?

 

Yes to the first question. As for the second, I firmly disagree with my opponents in this regard, but outside of temporary irritation I hold no ill will towards any.

 

 

6) What drives you to discuss this game whenever the subject is brought up? Are you aware that it may be out of some misplaced sense of allegience?

 

Sense of bile fascination, and having the excuse to discuss gaming's deeper aspects. Perhaps, but if so I am unaware of what it might be. 

 

 

7) Given the chance and ability, would you improve Sonic '06? Again, for the pessimistic, abandoning it outright for richer pastures is a legitimate answer.

 

I would make the attempt, actually. It's always been a subject that intrigued me from a creative perspective, of how to turn a bad piece of art into a good one.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I know how porting is done, that doesn't change the fact that many people who despise 06 want to and have enjoyed this experience, with many of the games level design intact. The only things that aren't are the character swtichings and the scripted sections, that's the only absence, yet people constantly talk about the horrible level design... If it was so horrible, no one would be able to enjoy it, much less play through it, or port it to a different engine hand have it work almost perfectly with a few minor tweaks. Another thing worth noting is that the 06 has parts of the levels they inhabit in sonic generations as it stands, and people aren't complaining about the level design there. If it's only certain portions of the game that have bad level design than state it. ALL of the levels do not have bad level design though.

You certainly have a twisted perception of how people who hated a game for not meeting the full potential we were promised, think.

[FireBird75]

I wish they had just skipped releasing a main title game in 2006. Franchise saved.

Sonic Generations should've had Silver going to the past to try to stop Sonic '06 from shipping.

"I'VE GOTTA SAVE THE FUTURE!"

With Sonic 06 out of the picture, that would leave Sonic Riders to be the 15th Anniversary title; which would actually appropriate since that game actually had the 15th Anniversary emblem on the cover.  Sonic 06's cover strangely lacks it.  I can't help but wonder if it was done on purpose.

 

Would Sonic Riders being the main Anniversary title be that awesome? No, not really but the Sonic franchise definitely wouldn't have taken such a significant hit to its rep.

 

We'd still have stupid Sonic Genesis for GBA though...

[jennytablina]

THERE WERE LITTLE TO NO FANS OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T WANT THIS GAME WHEN THE PREVIEWS AND DEMOS CAME OUT.

Not to mention the game implemented features that future games improved on, and used. That both shows that it wasn't as terrible as many people would think and that 06 didn't do everything except the music wrong. It's an exaggeration... 

Man this selective memory is weird because I remember what the community was like in the run up to 06 was and it wasn't like that at all. A lot of people liked the opening trailer, and Zebrahead's leaked opening track, but a lot of people got concerned when Silver got revealed. There were already signs SEGA was struggling with 06 as they changed the engine in mid-development. Sonic Genesis had come out only months before, so Sonic fans were already kind of irritated with Sonic team about that hot mess. 

I know personally just the reveal of Elise and hearing impressions of the early demos, I had already decided I wasn't interested in Sonic 06, I was more interested in Sonic and the Secret Ring and was far from the only fan feeling that way at the time. 

The downloadable demo actually was the first sign the game was a turkey, I remember people excitedly downloading it and then taking to forums to actually *complain* about the demo itself. It was the sole reason people went from kind of anticipating it, to suddenly being incredibly cautious about picking it up. It didn't help that...as I recall, the 06 demo got delayed from Xbox 360's launch as well and released a lot closer to the games release than originally intended. A move seen as SEGA doing damage control before the title was even out.

I'm not going to argue anything else because hey, if you like the game, whatever. But don't go pretending this title was actually universally anticipated. Because that most certainly wasn't the truth, specially once people actually tried the demo, and even without that. Word spread like wildfire in the community when people started posting impressions. 

 

[Gabz Girl]

^ I remember when I was lurking this forum around the time the reviews came out from IGN etc that there were still some people who believed it was impossible. There's no way it can be THAT bad right? Of course once the gameplay videos came out, the first one being the box puzzle mission with the stupid loading times, that's when we knew just how bad it was.

So glad I didn't pay full price for the game.

[DBZHedgy]

But according to your profile you were around 7 or 8 when that happened and neither the PS360 had been out for very long and not many people had one so... ... wait and from what I remember around these parts, demand for a Sonic 06 port to the Wii dropped over night when the reviews came out. 

 

 

Actually... forget that, I'm more interested in this...

 

 

Can you please link to evidence of this?

 

I don't own this game so I'll be most curious to see evidence of problems that SLW has which are on par with Sonic 06's.

My Age had nothing to do with that factor. Fans were still greatly anticipating this game.

 

Many of the glitches I was referring to has since been patched. A re-establishment of my perception of this is in my last post.

 

The actual fuck does that even have to do with '06 itself? Or even Sega itself? That is a fan project.

A fan project with many of the core level design features intact Mind you.

 

 

You want to know why I've refocused this conversation? This is exactly why. Because you're more focused on shifting blame towards completely unrelated media than you are clearing '06 of any actual wrongdoing. And don't give me that bullshit about "oh but I know it's not perfect" or "I just want people to hate it for the right reasons" again; you've yet to acknowledge a single actual fuckup on '06's part, in a sea of fuckups that are absolutely inexcusable together, even if tolerable seperately.

I'm not focused on shifting the blame, I am focused on figuring out why these problems INDIVIDUALLY are problems here and not in other games.... I've stated that several times... why do you keep asking?

 

And if 06 isn't free of the persecution every game that does ANYTHING 06 DOES makes them bad, or worse, by relation, but again, it is not. You can say as many times as you like that having the problems 06 has doesn't excuse them, but apparently they do since people aren't even noticing them in other games and are completely scolding the game for having the same problem as them in other games. And before you say it again, that ISN'T UNRELATED.

 

"You've yet to acknowledge a single fuckup on '06's part"

That is an outright lie. 

Especially considering you don't even pay attention to all of the posts that I've made, rarely including the ones directed to you!

 

 

Again I reiterate, it's because of people like you that this impression is set. '06 flaws were without dispute before white knights like yourself, but when people insist against the status of a game which is literally legendary in its awfulness, people retort. This is what you asked for. You brought this on yourself. You have literally no right to bitch when it turns out to be too much to bear.

I didn't say anything along the lines of me complaining that people are being to harsh with me in that last statement. All I stated was that it is considered nitpicking if very noticable problems are only spotted in Sonic 06. It doesn't matter if it's a snowball effect. If they are as big a problem as you state then they would be pointed out as such.

 

 

Game, set and match.

Sorry, you don't get to cherry-pick which arguments get to apply and which don't, because among other stupid shit, I'm sick of entertaining your confirmation bias. If you expect to come to the defence of a game this bad, you have to accept the notion that you don't make the rules. Accept the notion that you're not going to be playing on your home field, Accept the notion that you're going to talk about stuff you don't want to, and a whole fucking lot of it.

That nitpicking wasn't on my part. All of the statements that were being discussed in that set of statements was all due to your questionings. They are YOUR nitpicks, not mine.

Claiming your victory over one part of a whole statement doesn't seem like that much of a victory since you neglected to respond to several other instances of Me proving you wrong. It seems as though you were more anxious to prove me wrong than I was to you and I'm in the minority.

 

That Bias stated in the second paragraph says alot about the people here...

I appreciate your advice, but in all honesty I've done just that. The only way to incline this even more is to say that I myself hate the game (even though I don't) and then bring up all of these statements.

 

And considering how many times I've disproved several statements of others including yours already, and also taking into account that I'm a one man army, that's pretty darned good.

 

I can't actually find any evidence this problem ever existed (with the exception of one, which I cover below), for one thing. So for your sake I hope you actually have something to link, instead of just making this up as you go. Not that I care because this isn't really relevant to '06, but that would make you look pretty stupid.

Soft Lock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4SUuzysC_I&hd=1

There are tons of other glitches players have found on average playthrough. In fact there is a thread that entitle various glitches

 

 

I can't actually find any evidence this problem ever existed (with the exception of one, which I cover below), for one thing. So for your sake I hope you actually have something to link, instead of just making this up as you go. Not that I care because this isn't really relevant to '06, but that would make you look pretty stupid.

Since You've seen it already, than I don't need to provide evidence. 

Since this game isn't as hated as 06 for it's glitches it would make sense that those glitches wouldn't be as noted especially since the game is both new and the game has been pathced relatively quickly.

 

 

No, I said it was because he could curl up into a ball. The rolling was an added bonus. Kindly stop putting words in my mouth and trying to refute what the literal word of god on this subject has proven. People here have researched this subject in far greater depth than they ever will for '06, and you're going to look like an absolute fool if you keep this up.

You literally cited Escape from the city

ROLLING around at the speed of Sound. 

Armadillo's are more likely to roll than Hedgehogs are.

Hedgehogs don't even roll, much less spin. If sonic was so heavily based on a hedgehog than his primary form of attacking would be to duck, and as you can see he is quite defenseless in that state.

 

 

He doesn't need to, because 1) the people of this thread have been doing it for him, and 2) because literally anyone with twenty minutes of spare time and a search engine can prove this to themselves. Once again, I reiterate - Sonic '06's fuckups go without saying.

1) If that's the case, their doing a poor job seeing as how I'm rivaling them all at once, and they're usually the ones who stop responding. You've done the same.

2) Just because the game has problems doesn't mean that everyone has to hate it. And again many other games share several of these problems and are easily ignored, regardless of whether it's a snowball effect or not.

 

If a guy can keep that kind of determination for two weeks straight without at any point running out of momentum, then I truly believe that he will NEVER EVER reach a point where he goes "Guess you guys are right. Sonic 06, while still a fun game to me, is objectively a low-quality game befitting its reputation."

 

What's funny is that even I have a history of defending Sonic 06. I was so overhyped over the product that I willfully ignored any criticisms and made a dedicated effort to adjust to the game's shortcomings so I could master it by its own rules. Hell, I even 100%'d the sucker. Still, that kind of illusion is hard to maintain, and once the rose-tinted glasses came off I basically abandoned the entire Sonic franchise for over a year. It took the Sonic Unleashed demo to bring me back, and I could not believe how unlike Sonic 06 that demo was. Then the werehog was announced, and I naturally reacted with "Nevermind, the franchise is still dead". Fortunately I gave the game a go after all, and though to this day I can't stand the werehog levels the other half of Sonic Unleashed is one of my favourite blue blur experiences.

 

Sonic 06 was my Sonic franchise mid-life crisis.

Your Right. I have no reason to. No one else seems to be budging at all either, no matter how many times the disproving of statements on either side occur, I appear to be the only one even inching in the other direction. I'm never going to stop loving the game, but that doesn't mean that I know that there are things wrong with it. I've gone on to state problems of the game MYSELF, and I'm on it's side. However people against this show absolutely no signs of admittance to anything at all, so in reality their the ones who are NEVER EVER going to reach a point as that.

 

What's ironic with the latter statement is that you still CAME BACK to the franchise even though 06 ruined it for you. As much as any sonic fan has ever claimed to dismiss the series because of it's awfulness is just a load. It really and truly is. If sonic 06 were as bad as people claim it to be, Sonic would be dead. But is he? No. So many people who hate the game say that this had Sonic at his lowest point because so many fans didn't want to be fans of the series anymore and they STILL come back. That PROVES that the game isn't as bad as people claim. If this game made you run away screaming, then why did you play the demo for unleashed? BECAUSE IT WAS SONIC. 

 

 

That's your opinion, but again you can't disagree with ours! Stop trying to defend this!

Edit: Just saw Emmett's post and I 100% agree with his statement! You're just so damn determined DBZ.

That prior statement is counterproductive. How exactly can you tell someone to  keep their opinion and not disagree with someone else's?

I've stated that if you hate the game then it's fine, as long as it's for valid reasons. 

Then again, I'll go on to say that I don't care that you hate it. You can hate it for just being titled Sonic the hedgehog, and that'd be ok. I'd have absolutely nothing to say to that.

But as people said, you have to know what your discussing when your judging the game. For me people have insisted that the game is fairly improperly put together, and I can accept that. I'm insisting that many of the game's mechanics aren't as bad as people say and that it shouldn't be regarded so harshly because of their presence in other games, or rather, they should both be treated equally regardless of their appearences in other games.

 

Yes, I am determined. Thank you very much.

It is Ironic that I'm the only person being pointed out as determined though, because there are several others who are just as determined as I am to prove their point.

 

 

[MegasonicZX]

^ I remember when I was lurking this forum around the time the reviews came out from IGN etc that there were still some people who believed it was impossible. There's no way it can be THAT bad right? Of course once the gameplay videos came out, the first one being the box puzzle mission with the stupid loading times, that's when we knew just how bad it was.

So glad I didn't pay full price for the game.

I guess im the only one who after playing the demo was pretty excited for the game then? I literally came back to gamestop to play that demo like 10 times and enjoyed it a lot, luckily when I finally got a 360 I was not disappointed but that is a tale for another time.

[Indigo Rush]

Should be fun.

 

DISCLAIMER, because sadly it needs to be mentioned: NONE of this is an invite to debate or discuss. I'm filling out BL's survey for his sake, and for those who are interested in my 06 experience. For those who want to engage in a debate, you will not be treated with a response. Thank you kindly.
 

1) Post-Saturn, and '06 inclusive, which Sonic games have you played? Where applicable, how many to completion?

Beaten: Sonic Adventure, Adventure 2, Shuffle, Advance, Advance 2, Advance 3, Battle, Heroes, Riders, Rivals, 2006, Secret Rings, Unleashed (HD), Black Knight, All Stars Racing, Colors, 4(Ep1 and Ep2), Generations (HD), All Stars Transformed, Lost World (3DS), Tax-Stealth ports (CD,1,2)

Played/Demoed: Pinball Party, Pocket Adventure, SEGA Superstars, Shadow, Rush, Genesis, Unleashed (Wii), Mario and Sonic Beijing, Vancouver and London (Wii), Lost World (Wii U), Sonic Jump, Sonic Dash

Working on Beating: Rush Adventure, Colors DS

 

2) To what extent do you feel '06 has been inspired by games prior, and games following inspired by it? "Being a wakeup call" is a legitimate answer for the latter, for the pessimistic among you.

Sonic 06 borrows heavily from the first 2 Sonic Adventures, as well as some from Heroes and Shadow. Aside from sound effects for the 1ups, springs and dash panels, nothing in Sonic 06 inspired future games. Not in terms of story, gameplay, design and flow, nothing.

 

3) '06's reputation for awfulness is legendary - that in mind, what to you stands out the most as a critical flaw in the game? Feel free to name several, if equally memorable.

 Design and flow. I could talk about the glitches and atmosphere (lack thereof), but I feel that goes without saying. The design of the hub worlds and levels themselves are pretty standard, if not uninspiring and boring. The hub worlds are lifeless, the levels look like any generic platformer out there, and nothing about it left me feeling like I took part in a grand adventure. 

 

Not just visual and aesthetic design, but the way the game itself is organized is mind boggling. Pointless town missions and 9 playable characters (most of which don't even work), all are shoehorned with their own special gameplay mechanics to break the flow of the game, there is absolutely no focus in the big picture of the game's layout. The story progresses like a frankensteined SA1 and SA2 - sometimes you go to an empty hubworld, sometimes you go directly to the next level and are tossed in a totally new area, breaking the immersion. 

 

 

And the flow is terrible, too. Those town missions make you wait a ridiculous amount of time through load screens just to get one objective done, and if you fail, you need to do it all again. Some levels have no loading screens for some reason, so it's difficult to figure out why this is even necessary. You'll be smack in the middle of a stage at times and it'll have to load a new section, once again breaking the flow. Changing to amigo characters? Breaking the flow. Replaying Wave Ocean again as slow-as-molasses Tails for no discernible reason? Breaking the flow. Sonic was all about flow, and this game destroys it.

 

The beginning of the game is the worst, though. By far. You're greeted with a beautiful cinematic cutscene to be jarringly thrown into these sub-par at best high-quality-PS2-level character models, uncanny animation and mouth movements (LUA was a poor choice, really), and then the game itself starts you off in a hub world. You can't actually go straight through to the first level, you need to buy the Light Chip to cross the trail of rings. Oh, you can die in the hubworld, by the way. And when you find Tails, you'll find that his repetitive deaths in the hub worlds is reminiscent of poor AI programming from Sonic 2, but it's not nostalgic or endearing, it's mystifyingly depressing. In fact, Tails in general. 

 

To get the Light Chip, you get it "with the money." The money? The money you get by doing those missions I mentioned earlier. So after you spend your precious time figuring out that it's the people with the BLUE icon above their head to do missions, you can get started. But you have to be sure to talk to Robert the Shoemaker. Okay, so then you have to go through all the loading screens and... okay jump through rings like it's Superman 64 and get the shoes and money. Get the light chip. Use the light speed dash and pray to your deity that it doesn't fail. Jump through the ring (well more like bump into it) and enter Wave Ocean.

 

Watch Sonic move by himself. Hold up. Slide on... the... water.... okay... hit the dash panel and glitch through the loop half the time. Uh. Oh, and the spin jump doesn't damage robots. But moving on. Also, how about those dolphin animations. Someone must have slipped them some Power Sneakers, because they're flying around the water like crazy.

 

Make your way and then run though the ripoff homage to Sonic Adventure where the orca chases you and... ride its fin. Ok. Then for some reason you need to keep it from escaping because apparently Sonic doesn't want that whale to live its life freely. So then we need to switch controls to Tails who controls TOTALLY differently, not just from Sonic but from any previous game he's been playable in. No tail swiping attack, no speed. Nada. 

 

Then Sonic flails around like nobody's business on the orca. Jumps over the gate... loading screen... and then he's at a Mach Speed section suddenly.

 

Then you run without any way of stopping Sonic, and you'll eventually die either by spazzing against a wall or tree, or by glitching through the scripted loop sections. Either way, you will die if this is your first time playing Sonic 06. And if you're unlucky enough to lose all your lives at this point... and you will...

 

You go back to the title screen. You start the game.... and...

 

.....you didn't autosave. You're back at the very beginning. And don't you think that this isn't a widespread problem. It happens to almost everybody who LPs this game. And that's the biggest example I can give for what's wrong with this game. The fact that all of this happens within your first hour (half an hour if you've done this before) of play is astounding. It takes you that long to get into the action, which is broken to begin with.

 

Above all, as I was actually playing the game? I didn't even have fun with it. So that entire experience did NOTHING for me.

 

4) Likewise, if you can name a memorable positive trait, do so. Again, not limited to just one.

The CG cutscenes are cool to watch, and much of the music is good.

 

5) Do you agree with the reputation the game has garnered over the years? Conversely, do you disagree with in any way, or outright revile, the people that don't share your view?

If anything, it needs to be studied more. In game design majors, there should be a class for "bad games," and this should be the game that everyone needs to look at in depth to see what went wrong.

 

6) What drives you to discuss this game whenever the subject is brought up? Are you aware that it may be out of some misplaced sense of allegience?

Before, it was because I was genuinely curious to see how anyone can consider that this game is unbroken. Nothing to do with them enjoying it, but how they can objectively call it "good." Nowadays I try to avoid it.

 

7) Given the chance and ability, would you improve Sonic '06? Again, for the pessimistic, abandoning it outright for richer pastures is a legitimate answer.

No. I wouldn't improve it. I wouldn't even use ideas from it.

 

Anything that could have been good in Sonic 06 was already good in previous games, so why disgrace those other games by associating them with Sonic 06? There's no point. Leave it buried. Delist it. Decanonize it. Study it and remember it, but don't bring it back.

 

tl;dr, my thoughts on Sonic 06:

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

There are tons of other glitches players have found on average playthrough. In fact there is a thread that entitle various glitches

 

 

Since You've seen it already, than I don't need to provide evidence. 

 

Last I checked, "average playthough" doesn't include pulling off stunts that would normally get you killed in game and thus finding glitches as a result. 'Cause that's pretty much the general find behind the really glaring glitches. And funny how even in that forum, you still have people stating some were actually fun  and STILL not nearly as bad as 06.

[jennytablina]

Anything that could have been good in Sonic 06 was already good in previous games, so why disgrace those other games by associating them with Sonic 06? There's no point. Leave it buried. Delist it. Decanonize it. Study it and remember it, but don't bring it back.

Let's all remember the best bit of Sonic 06, where it actually does this to itself to save everyone even needing to refer to this game in any relation to the rest of this series ever. So SEGA already sorted that for you.

It's hilarious because I remember writing a "it was all a dream" ending to a story once in secondary school, Teacher took one look at it and immediately demanded above all else that I re-wrote the ending, as it's considered the laziest way to end a story in literary circles. Sonic 06's story is literally not even up to GCSE English standard of writing. Go figure

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

My Age had nothing to do with that factor. Fans were still greatly anticipating this game.

You said...

 

THERE WERE LITTLE TO NO FANS OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T WANT THIS GAME WHEN THE PREVIEWS AND DEMOS CAME OUT

Yet here we have MULTIPLE, multiple means more than one. Much older members than you are who were on here at the time telling you that just the opposite was going on! 

 

Many of the glitches I was referring to has since been patched. A re-establishment of my perception of this is in my last post.

Why don't you just say 'I was lying' It would have saved you time typing.

Edit: Oh wait you did... lets check this out...

4th post in that topic is saying how it's not bad as Sonic 06... so does the 9th.

Ok... how does this topic How does this support your earlier claim. That topic is only 26 posts long, it covers a console and handheld version of the game, some of the posts are only comments about glitches others have had happen to them, and one of them is from a guy who is notorious for seeking out glitches which you would never find through normal play.

How the hell does this support your comment of... "They are not treated as such however, and many of the glitches that are found in Sonic Lost World are found in average playthroughs not glitch hunting."

 

How does this 'evidence' compared to Sonic 06 which is simply badly programmed? The glitches presented here are not even in the same league as Sonic 06, and by league I'm talking about things like object orientated glitches Vs event driven Vs graphical.

[FriendBot]

Well the entire game was a rush job. So the writers will probably try to finish the story in little time due to the time constraints.

 

I have a question. Was it really Sega and Sonic Team's fault for releasing 06 despite it being rushed or did Sony/Microsoft or the fans have anything to do with it?

[Nepenthe]

I have a question. Was it really Sega and Sonic Team's fault for releasing 06 despite it being rushed or did Sony/Microsoft or the fans have anything to do with it?

 

It is Sonic Team's fault for making a crap game in the first place, and it's Sega's fault for not overseeing development properly as well as releasing the game when they did. The console manufacturers and fans had nothing to do with it.

[FriendBot]

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing up that question, Nepenthe. It's just that I heard people saying it was Sony/Microsoft or the fans that caused the game to be rushed and it is Sega's fault since they should've use their time more wisely but alas, the damage has been done.

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

I have a question. Was it really Sega and Sonic Team's fault for releasing 06 despite it being rushed or did Sony/Microsoft or the fans have anything to do with it?

 

Yes, absolutely. 

 

Sega tried to pan it off that Microsoft wanted the game out before Christmas which is why the game came out when it did, this was a blatant lie. Microsoft were not the publishers of the game, it was not an exclusive game and at one point it was even on the way to the Wii.

 

It was fully Segas decision to release it, and more than likely it was due to Segas old habits of "Release a Sonic game for Christmas"

 

Even if they had delayed it, it would still have been terrible, even if they fixed all the dodgy programming, somehow optimised it so it didn't have mammoth loading times, you would still have the terrible level designs, terrible boss fights, tragic story, the cut scene direction and depending on your out look, character designs.

 

The only way they could have fixed Sonic 06 was to completely scrap it, and try to make up the loss through a humble sega bundle.

[FireBird75]

What's ironic with the latter statement is that you still CAME BACK to the franchise even though 06 ruined it for you. As much as any sonic fan has ever claimed to dismiss the series because of it's awfulness is just a load. It really and truly is. If sonic 06 were as bad as people claim it to be, Sonic would be dead. But is he? No. So many people who hate the game say that this had Sonic at his lowest point because so many fans didn't want to be fans of the series anymore and they STILL come back. That PROVES that the game isn't as bad as people claim. If this game made you run away screaming, then why did you play the demo for unleashed? BECAUSE IT WAS SONIC. 

I wouldn't call that irony.  Also I know quite a few folk who were Sonic fans and stopped being fans after playing this game and haven't come back since. So, no that's not bullshit.  I'll concede that Sonic 06 wasn't a FranchiseKiller.  It could've been, but it wasn't.

 

That doesn't prove a thing.  Sonic Unleashed is what brought some fans who were abandoning the series back.  It has nothing to do with Sonic 06.  06 is still considered terrible but some fans considered Unleashed so interesting and/or impressed with its demo that they decided to give the Sonic series another try.

[StaticMania]

A lot of people blame Sony and Microsoft for the game being rushed, even though Sega clearly made it primary rule to release the game by the holidays and the PS3 version was released a whole year later...supposedly fixing things that were still there in plenty.