Official Sonic 2006 topic

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

 

Trying to make me look and/or feel stupid doesn't really add anything to the discussion of Sonic 06, and it's quite off topic.

 

Comrade, a lot of us have started out like you did: the hard-headed debater who thinks that just being persistent is what it takes to win an argument. All of us, all of us, have grown to regret those days, even if they still stick with some of us. Somewhere along the road, you realize that there's a difference between winning an argument and just scaring everyone off. Somewhere we realized that the things sitting across from us were people, sometimes even excellent people. And somewhere we learned to treat them as such.

 

I implore you, comrade, to be wise and take this as a learning experience. You're not the first person we've had to have these discussions with, and you likely won't be the last. Of all your arguments and points, the only thing you've properly convinced us of is that you're so locked into being persistent that it doesn't really matter what we say. Determination can be a beautiful trait, but only when tempered with sympathy. I don't know if you realize it or not (at least, I hope you haven't), but it seems you've already made up your mind that you'll either win this argument or just up and leave. I know, I've done it before.

 

I ask that you don't just treat us as people who don't understand and need to be brought to our senses. Treat us as reasonable people who have come to an opposing conclusion, maybe a right one, maybe wrong. I'm not sure if I can ask you to treat me as such, as I'm still getting my bearings in the field of debate. But sooner or later you'll have to really hear what these other, well-minded people have to say, and I ask that when you do you consider what it is they are saying. All I ask is that you treat them as friends you disagree with, not as enemies you have to fend off. 

 

I apologize if we've given you a tougher time than is necessary. But know that we're only, in our clumsy way, trying to keep history from repeating.

 

=============

 

To bring this back to 06 proper, who do you all think had the best character arc? For the life of me, I'm not sure what to make of any of them.

[Penny]

I love Sonic 06. I really do. In fact, it's my third favorite 3D Sonic game behind only Generations and Unleashed. Most of Sonic's stages are a blast to go through, the CG Cutscenes are amazing, the music is... good enough I suppose, and me and my friends always have fun playing throughthe multiplayer (tag mode only though).

All that said, however, it's still a bad game. The game fails on so many levels, it's not even funny. I mean, even though I kind of like the story (I'm a sucker for time travel and interconnecting plots) and Mephiles, the story itself is full of plotholes. The gameplay is chocked full of annoying glitches and unfinished, underutilized mechanics. I would cite examples, but all of this has been documented by people much more qualified and intelligent people (like most of the people who've posted in this thread. Most of).

It's a poorly made, obviously unfinished game, and there's no use trying to prove otherwise. There is no excuse for this game to be as bad as it is. None.

Now remember, I love this game. I am able to stomach all the glaring faults and have loads of fun with it. To me, it's a fun game. However, just because something is fun doesn't make it good. When I look at Sonic Generations (an actually good, well made game), I can't see how anyone could not like it.. Most people see Sonic 06 the opposite way; they look at it and wonder how anyone could like such a poorly made game.

And you know what? There's no reason why they should wonder any differently.

[Blacklightning]

To bring this back to 06 proper, who do you all think had the best character arc? For the life of me, I'm not sure what to make of any of them.

Whenever this question comes up it comes off as depressing because it reminds me that Sonic got the short straw in regards to this. In his own anniversary game.

 

Not that I think it's saying much, but I think Shadow had the best deal here. He was legitimately true to his character for a start, which I didn't think I'd have to make a point out of but everyone else is either excessively flanderized or just legitimately stupid. He doesn't take a single ounce of bullshit wherever it's shovelled towards him - he had the sense to keep tracking down the main threat of the game, he instantly refuses to join Mephiles both times he's offered, even going as far as to call that whole bluff about the people of Earth turning against him in the future, and without his initiative Sonic and co probably would've been stranded in the future permanently. Of the other two main hedgies, both of them were chasing down seperate villains (Eggman for Sonic because... here was there? And Sonic for Silver if not Iblis, because a scary guy with no mouth told him to. Yes, seriously), and many of their plots were only allowed to happen because they acted as though they were legitimately retarded.

 

Most of the other characters aren't even worth entertaining the thought. Knux's whole reason for being in the story amounted to handing Sonic a message from Eggman, before sharing a background role with Tails where they both did essentially nothing since. Rouge and Omega actually got a surprising amount of work done, but one could argue that's mostly just by virtue of supporting Shadow - at the very least Rouge had the initiative to keep Omega waiting for centuries in order to back future Shadow up, and Omega is such a boss that he can take Mephiles on by himself. Amy outright disappears in the plot several times, and Blaze's very existence in this game is a paradox that is difficult to comment on. Elise was a generic damsel in distress, and Eggman...

 

What the fuck was Eggman's plan, anyway? He needs a chaos emerald to power a time machine, but even when he gets exactly what he needs he never ends up using it for anything. He claims he needs the Flames of Disaster to finish the machine, but it quite clearly works just fine without it, so what gives? Why not just turn it loose on the populace and establish Eggmanland in the chaos? Hasn't stopped him from trying before.

[Pelly <3's U]

I don't give a flying fuck if it's off topic, because I honestly sympathise with you, and feel sorry for you. Including myself I've seen so many new people on the internet start out like this. I can't stand that people are willing to do this to themselves if it means some kind of attention and recognition, even if it means unanimous revile from everyone who has the displeasure of interacting with you.

 

You brag about how you're a "one man army" and how you're fending off everyone in the topic at the same time, declaring premature victory over the fact that people have stopped responding to you without ever considering why. Why? Because you're obnoxious, bull-headed, hypocritical and frankly just fucking annoying to put up with, and it's too much for most people to bear. This isn't a credit to your debating skills - this is a justified insult to your overall character. People are specifically ignoring you because you are a horrible debater and every attempt to reason with you is either ignored or sidetracked to the point it might as well be.

 

I don't say this out of any malice or hatred. I say this because I am legitimately concerned about you. Sooner or later someone had to draw attention to this because not only is this the reason I and many other people don't enjoying participating in this topic anymore, it's also a crap trait to have later in life, and I hate to think there's a chance you could grow up still behaving like this. It's unacceptable.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say that Soma said this far better than I could, so yeah, just take his advice. He's probably the better role model.

 

Honestly, since you're at this point I would just suggest doing what you've said other's are doing and step off the debate as well. Clearly you are frustrated and it's showing in your post, and honestly despite you saying that you're saying things out of concern you're crossing a line here.  

[Blacklightning]

It's okay, I'm pretty much done now anyway. Might as well turn to the ignore system now that you've reminded me, because clearly I have the self-restraint of a drunken toddler at an Oktoberfest convention.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

...does anyone else think that 'His World' and the many variants of it sounds remarkably like Doctor Who's 'I Am the Doctor' and its variants?

 

Not sure if this point has been made before, but regardless, you've got to admit that it is at the very least understandable if someone draws a parallel between the two.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhYAM4gIKwk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCHfVZIAZ6s

 

Maybe it's just me becoming a tad too obsessive, lol

I think you might be onto something there.

Hey, remember how 06 ripped off Flashman's theme with one of the city mission tunes?

[Gabz Girl]

Shadow's arc was by far the best, and that's really sad considering this was Sonic's 15th Anniversary game and not Shadow's fifth Anniversary game. Sonic's was just the usual "save the Princess from Dr Eggman" shtick and Silver's was dumb, dumb, dumb.

I think you might be onto something there.

Hey, remember how 06 ripped off Flashman's theme with one of the city mission tunes?

Yep, that really OTT guitar riff. I always thought it sounded familiar...

[FriendBot]

Shadow's arc was by far the best, and that's really sad considering this was Sonic's 15th Anniversary game and not Shadow's fifth Anniversary game. Sonic's was just the usual "save the Princess from Dr Eggman" shtick and Silver's was dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

I did like Shadow's story for the most part like the friendship between Team Dark and how Shadow knew to not trust Mephiles based on his experiences from his own game (spin-off my ass). Sonic's story was really irrelevant to the overall plot, it would have been better if Sonic's story could atleast be written in a way so that we have a vague idea on the overall plot and we can go through Shadow and Silver's story to know more. Silver's story was pretty good as well since it's a story about a guy that is willing to do anything to save his world and since he's new to this heroism, be can be gullible and doesn't know who to actually trust. The way on how they developed Silver in this game was pretty good from becoming a newbie to a brave warrior but that's just me.

[DBZHedgy]

1) Why don't you just say 'I was lying' It would have saved you time typing.

2) 4th post in that topic is saying how it's not bad as Sonic 06... so does the 9th.

3) Ok... how does this topic How does this support your earlier claim. That topic is only 26 posts long, it covers a console and handheld version of the game, some of the posts are only comments about glitches others have had happen to them, and one of them is from a guy who is notorious for seeking out glitches which you would never find through normal play.

4) How the hell does this support your comment of... "They are not treated as such however, and many of the glitches that are found in Sonic Lost World are found in average playthroughs not glitch hunting."

 

How does this 'evidence' compared to Sonic 06 which is simply badly programmed? The glitches presented here are not even in the same league as Sonic 06, and by league I'm talking about things like object orientated glitches Vs event driven Vs graphical.

1) A false belief isn't a lie

 

2) It doesn't matter if it was as bad as 06 or not, the same glitches occur in the same instances, yet people see 06's as worse. See Nit Picks. What did I tell you?

 

3) Exactly ONE guy. Everyone else Stumbled upon these glitches through average playthroughs, THE SAME AS 06'S GLITCHES!

 

4) As stated above, the same kinds of glitches occur, yet people DON'T see them as being as bad as 06 simply because their  opinion upon 06 is biased.

I don't know if you realized it, but any game with glitches has faulty programming, so the badly programmed faults in 06 are the same as the badly programmed faults in Sonic Lost World.

 

 

1)I wouldn't call that irony.  Also I know quite a few folk who were Sonic fans and stopped being fans after playing this game and haven't come back since. So, no that's not bullshit.  I'll concede that Sonic 06 wasn't a FranchiseKiller.  It could've been, but it wasn't.

 

2)That doesn't prove a thing.  Sonic Unleashed is what brought some fans who were abandoning the series back.  It has nothing to do with Sonic 06.  06 is still considered terrible but some fans considered Unleashed so interesting and/or impressed with its demo that they decided to give the Sonic series another try.

1) I'm quite sure that the people of the aforementioned are either bluffing, or they were never very fond of the sonic franchise in the first place. I'm probably wrong, but either way, this game isn't the only case of fans running and screaming  And many other games after 06 have scared off several fans as well. 06 isn't the only game that has done this. It isn't exclusive to this situation in particular, any game could be the kryptonite for a fan of anything really. I was almost assured of my dismissal of the series after what had taken place after unleashed, but once Sonic Generations came around the corner my head popped right outta the sandbox. It's easy to say that you dismissed a series but how are you so sure that the people in question HAVE actually dismissed the series entirely?

 

2) That wasn't my point. My point was That if Sonic 06 were as bad as people claim, then people WOULDN'T EVEN BOTHER trying Sonic Unleashed demo. THAT was what I had proved.

 

 

That's because you keep bringing up the same arguments over and over and every time someone refutes that argument you just ignore it or miss the overall point to argue semantics, only to go back on your original argument later then pretending that no one has made any actual rebuttal. We've gotten tired of playing ringaround-the-rosie with you.

If that is the case, which it isn't, then your literally asking for trouble at this point since you people STILL come back to argue with THE SAME RING-AROUND-THE-ROSIER. And if I am so repetitive, then how come I haven't seen a quote of this instance that actually shows that I am. 

I don't recall ever saying anything twice unless someone asked a question in which that was the answer to. I don't repeat the same things over and over while debating. You can say all you want that I'm beating around the bush or WHATEVER, but I know that isn't the case. The only time I actually did that was when I went through that series of convoluted conjectures just to confirm that the game was indeed competently and/or playable.

Since you Simply SAY that I do this instead of SHOWING it, then I see no reason to actually believe you.

 

That's because you were the one who instigated this debate in the first place, challenging peoples opinion on the game and claiming that people were being unfair to it. We're the one's who are defending our position.

Because it is unfair. Many scenarios that this game contains are in several other games whether it be plot or gameplay mechanics, yet they aren't even noticed in other games while here it's this big old throw down or epic proportions.

 

 

That statement is completely assbackwards.

 

From a fan's perspective (the more dedicated ones at least), they came back because Sega pratically made it their mission to distance the next Sonic game from 06 as much as possible and put some actual effort into it. Fans came back because what Sega showed looked like a complete 180 in both look and attitude from Sonic 06, showing legitimate promise, and even then, Unleashed only ended up leaving a lukewarm impression after the fact. At release, most people were just releaved that it wasn't another 06.

 

And that's just the fandom's reception. Go look at any Sonic related topic on any general gaming site and at least half the posters there will still be saying that Sonic is a dead franchise that is beyond redemption, and it's only been until very recently with the release of Colors, Generations, and Lost World that people have started to put more faith into Sonic again. Really, Sonic fansites like this one are the only places where this kind of reception is not the majority. Sure a lot of the more hardcore fans stuck around, but outside of our small communities, Sonic is constantly put next toCrash Bandicoot and Spyro The Dragon as the next gaming icon to completely crash and burn.

 

Perhaps the only real reason Sonic 06 didn't actively kill the franchise is because it was already a cash cow franchise that's practically guaranteed to sell with enough marketing and pretty trailers (and most of the games sales come from the genrnal demographic that they're selling it to; not dedicated Sonic fans, who only make up a fraction of a games overal audience).

 

You are sadly mistaken. Sega DID NOT make it their mission to completely alleviate Sonic 06 from fans. MANY gameplay aspects ARE REUSED in Sonic Unleashed. New/Alternate Gameplay styles ARE STILL PRESENT (Not the same, but rather a different gameplay style in general). HUB WORLDS ARE STILL PRESENT. HUB MISSIONS ARE STILL PRESENT. MELODRAMATIC PLOTS ARE STILL PRESENT. SUPER SONIC BATTLES ARE STILL PRESENT! And to top that off, almost every subsequent game practically tips their hat to 06 to some extent! Sonic Rivals features Eggman NEGA, the Eggman of Blaze's Dimension, except this time HE'S FROM THE FUTURE, LIKE BLAZE, AND SILVER LIVES IN SAID FUTURE! Why would they continue to expand upon a game that everyone hated if their mission was to "distance the next sonic games from 06 as much as possible" PLEASE!!!

 

Wait... Did you say that Sonic 06 didn't have any effort? THAT IS H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S

Sonic 06 had more programming's worth than many other FUTURE titles in the series. HUBS, 12 WORKING (albeit buggy) GAMEPLAY STYLES. HUB MISSIONS (and it isn't to say that it was only a little bit), More than 20 Alterations of Levels (3-5 different experiences for each the 9), 3 COMPLICATED TIME TRAVEL INVOLVED STORIES (One that is 5x as complicated as Sonic Generations yet has the same amount of plotholes), PARTNER SYSTEMS, COOP, BATTLE, and the list goes ON! 

Although they aren't polished, they still generally WORK instead of being absent entirely, and this game had 1 YEARS WORTH OF DEVELOPMENT. The Developers really knew what they were doing if all of this is actually PLAYABLE (or better enunciated, actually containing the ability to be played with and without glitches; or for even further enunciation, the fact that these can be played All the way through without running into the same bug repeatedly).

 

Are you crazy? People who aren't fans put Sonic Right up underneath Zelda, Mario and Kirby. People were amazed to find out that Sonic was IN SMASH BROTHERS. Not many people get that Honor, and HE is a THIRD PARTY MEMBER! That significant factor, coupled with the fact that Sonic 06 had come out two years ago, and NO ONE (as far as I know) Was Appalled with him being present is what I've been trying to point out. (His cheapness on the other hand....)

 

My point precisely. Many of the other gaming industries that were cash cows ARE dying, and it's because they failed to release several or their Main IP's titles. Megaman For instance, the dismissal of 3 Megaman games at one time practically ruined them, and look at them now. Their about to die out!

And I have a question, why is it that the general demographic (whom you have quoted to say that Sonic is a dead franchise) still put their money's worth into Sonic? Your contradicting yourself...

 

 

Sonic 06 has a LOT of problems that have nothing to do with the time taken to develop. Lousy design decisions left unchecked, bad level plan and layout, lousy physics, terrible storyline (and that's something considering Shadow came out the year before!). I do think things like the animation, music and some of the terrain design was good, but 06 was basically all wasted prospects

Lousy Design Decisions? How exactly?

Bad Level Plan? Again How?

Lousy Physics? What? Without physics, Silver's gameplay would not work AT ALL. The Physics in the game greatly Focus on his gameplay. The only instances of the game lacking physics is momentum, and the loop walking, and even those don't hinder gameplay, so how is it a problem?

Terrible Storyline? Because of the Plot Holes? I think Sonic Generations would like to have a word with you...

 

I could claim all of those for several other games as well.

 

 

All these arguments are usually beside the overall point trying to be made.

 

And if you want to discuss why Mephiles is bashed for being a poor villain when others, specifically Eggman seem to get away with being just as incompetent (as you claim), would require delving into a long winded analysis on characterization and motives etc., that could take up it's own seperate topic, but since that discussion alone was already way too drawn out and I have no intention of starting it back up again to satisfy you, I'll instead point you to an analysis done by Roger van der Weide. He does a good job at highlighting the strengths of his character and also where his characterization was weaker in more recent games. If you want a good idea of why people liked Eggman in the Adventure games, this pretty much nails it.

Usually? HOW???

The Mephiles Debates were to establish Mephiles Credibilty as a good or bareble villain, How is that beside the point?

The Silver Vs Big Debate was to emphasis that Silver is more closely related to Sonic's gameplay style than Big. 

Eggman's Arrogance goes along with Mephiles as well. Also for Mephiles Credibility as Villain.

 

For my satisfaction? Please. Your the one who left the aforementioned topic as is, I'd be satisfied if you continued or halted. 

 

Yes, I know this, I've already watched all of Roger's Dissected Videos, and that's precisely my point. WHY do people see him as a good villian in these cases yet mephiles isn't? 

 

Yes, of course the discussion in which you declined from was way to long winded and drawn out, yet the ones your engaging in right now isn't? If you say so. 

 

 

It has everything to do with how well the game plays overall. A game with a bit of decent level design doesn't count for much if it still plays like shit, and yet again this is just you cherry-picking one aspect of one game (or a mod in this instance) and trying to get off as if it applies to an entire game.

Both gameplay styles are structured the same. That's like saying that the level design in twilight princess can't be compared to the Wind Waker's gameplay style.

On a sidenote though, 06 and Generations both utilize the havok physics engine.

 

EDIT: Also, did you just link me to the machspeed section as an example of decent level design? Seriously? It's almost literally a straight line!

I was trying to link to BrianuuuSonic's 4th Mod update

 

I also said they were problems as a collective, and you gloss over that every single time. EVERY single time. Why you continue to bring back up a small side comment and continually ignore the main point I've stated in literally every single post I've made in relation to you is something I just can't comprehend.

So, basically you came up with the first statement, lied about it and now your acting like it doesn't even matter anymore? Whatever man...

 

Even if it's a collective problem, Many of the problems that are considered to be part of the collective crap storm aren't actually applicable to it. That's what I've been trying to tell you this whole time... that's the reason for the "small side comments". 

And since you've had to repeat yourself several times i would expect you to at least remember that I have said on many occasions, that games with a collective crap storm still range between being BOTH good AND bad, as well as games without collective crap storms being Bad as well. YOU miss THAT everytime. Once again with the hypocrisy...

 

So yet again, I must reiterate. You can't just cherry pick single problems from other games to compare to '06's wealth of absurd awfulness, at least from the standpoint of declaring a game overall awful. Other games get away with it because they have redeeming traits. '06 doesn't. There's your answer.

Uh... 06 does have redeeming traits... Many of which I've pointed out very frequently. And few of which other people have pointed out as well. How bout dat music?

And BTW it isn't cherry picking if the problem isn't a problem in the initial game. YOUR the one who sees it as a problem not me, all I'm merely doing is showing that these instances exist in relation to 06.

 

I'm not the one quoting literally every single other participant in the thread and expecting a single person to read the entirety of it. Of course, now that it's out in the open, why aren't you replying to it now? Are you afraid?

Did I say that you had to read the entirety of it? That's what quotes are for are they not? I'm literally citing your words, yet you can't be bothered to actually read them? 

 

Are you referring to my absence? What does that have to do with me being afraid? I was busy with stuff so I had to take care of it. Goofing off on the internet comes after busy work. If you label that as Afraid, then I am generally confused and I'm also wondering which dictionary(Or webpage) your reading from...

In your case however, you have been active on the community while these were present, yet you still ignored them, it is far more likely that you are the afraid one. Not saying that you are, but seeing as how YOUR cherry picking which statements your going to answer just because you don't feel like it or whatever, proves otherwise...

 

 

Your response to "Sonic '06 sucks as a whole" is basically "well Lost World has glitches and '06 has glitches therefore Lost World is as bad as '06". This doesn't prove that Lost World is as bad as '06 because this is only one angle of comparison. And literally every comparison you've made to other games is some variation of this, only swapping out games between LW, Colours and the Adventures. And all it would really prove even if you were right would be justifying your silly vendetta against the former two by dragging them down to '06's level, whilst simultaneously forgetting that you're actually supposed to be portraying '06 in a positive light here.

 

How is this not nitpicking?

Uhm, NO. That's my response to Sonic 06 is Glitchy. Not it sucks as a whole.

And When did I ever say that just because Lost World had glitches that it was immediately as bad as 06? Why would I try to prove anything about Lost World in the first place. Isn't this an 06 topic? Your the one judging Lost World after the facts I've laid in front of you. YOUR the one who's perceiving it as bad when looking into these statements. It's the same with Roger van der Weide's Sonic Dissected videos. 

I think Lost World is pretty good, it has flaws, like everything, but it''s still pretty good. Telling someone else the faults of the game usually indicates some kind of hate for it, but that isn't always true, simply a fair balance of optimism and pessimism. Since everyone sees only the BAD in 06, I proceed to show the GOOD in it.

 

Justifying a vendetta? When did I ever say that I hated Sonic Lost World and the Adventure Titles? YOUR the one who sees the problems being compared as awful. I don't even see these as problems. YOU DO. I'm not dragging those games to 06's level. It's just a comparison of the same instances in different games.

 

They can't be nitpicks from my standpoint if they aren't seen as these HUGE problems. As stated above, I barely even see them as problems, if anything, they're just counter nitpicks that the critics of 06 pointed out which applies to different games as well. THEY'RE the nitpickers.

 

If you check back on that fragment again you'll realize I was drawing attention to a contradiction rather than declaring ultimate victory over every statement you've ever made. Context is more important than you think.

Did I ever say that you were claiming ultimate victory over every contradiction? In Fact, I said the exact opposite...

 

Claiming your victory over one part of a whole statement doesn't seem like that much of a victory since you neglected to respond to several other instances of Me proving you wrong. 

You seem to contradict yourself more and more as this goes on... Maybe that's why you always claim that your "done"

 

In response to the latter, I stopped responding to them specifically because it was circle-jerking built specifically to cherry-pick which arguments get to apply and which don't, and I'm not falling for that bullshit again.

Yet another detection of hypocrisy...

How is this Idle conversation about my debate skills and what not anything BUT circle jerking? YOU are LITERALLY choosing which statements to reply to and it just so happens that many of them don't have anything to do with the subject at hand. And the ones that don't apply you seem to find the most applicable to continue apparently.

Look who's really cherry picking which arguments get to apply and which don't. 

 

 I can't even tell what this is in response to because you've left the original quote out. But I'm assuming this goes back into things the character designers themselves have proven as inspiration for the character on the record, in which case good fucking luck with that.

And here you are saying that Sonic should be an armadillo because "they're better known for rolling".

Well actually, I was referring to your hypocrisy, but since that's the topic now...

 

Here we go with the constant contradictions again...

You LITERALLY SAID the sole reason he was a hedgehog was because he could roll and/or spin. Seeing as how armadillos are much more prominent in BOTH spinning and Rolling, that would clearly be the superior choice if accuracy of species was what they were aiming for. And I would like to point out AGAIN, that Tails and Knuckles' species have NOTHING to do with Rolling or curling into a ball to defend themselves (maybe knuckles) yet EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER has the ability to spin and curl into a ball even though it contradicts their species' natural abilities.

 

It's worth noting that I was actually advocating this brand of "realism" never really applied in the first place, so once again I thank you for making my argument for me. Actually did it better than I would've, to tell the truth.

Ok, Now your just flat out lying...

 

 Blacklightning, on 01 Mar 2014 - 6:53 PM, said:

No, I said it was because he could curl up into a ball. The rolling was an added bonus.

 

You said this as a response to me saying "The Spin Attack isn't Sonic's defining trait"

 

I don't give a flying fuck if it's off topic, because I honestly sympathise with you, and feel sorry for you. Including myself I've seen so many new people on the internet start out like this. I can't stand that people are willing to do this to themselves if it means some kind of attention and recognition, even if it means unanimous revile from everyone who has the displeasure of interacting with you.

I didn't even MEAN for this to become this heated argument, I just wanted to discuss the game! I swear if I was on the other side of the line NO ONE would notice!

I could care less if this would give me any recognition or attention, I'm simply here to discuss the game. Any backlash or rising trends that occur afterwards is completely coincidental.

 

You brag about how you're a "one man army" and how you're fending off everyone in the topic at the same time, declaring premature victory over the fact that people have stopped responding to you without ever considering why. Why? Because you're obnoxious, bull-headed, hypocritical and frankly just fucking annoying to put up with, and it's too much for most people to bear. This isn't a credit to your debating skills - this is a justified insult to your overall character. People are specifically ignoring you because you are a horrible debater and every attempt to reason with you is either ignored or sidetracked to the point it might as well be.

 

I don't say this out of any malice or hatred. I say this because I am legitimately concerned about you. Sooner or later someone had to draw attention to this because not only is this the reason I and many other people don't enjoying participating in this topic anymore, it's also a crap trait to have later in life, and I hate to think there's a chance you could grow up still behaving like this. It's unacceptable.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say that Soma said this far better than I could, so yeah, just take his advice. He's probably the better role model.

To be quite frank, Indigo Rush was the one who labeled me as a one man army, and the only time I cited such saying was in a direct response to him.

 

Oh, I'm OBNOXIOUS eh? As well as bull-headed, hypocritical and annoying? (Especially since you seem to be very bull headed and hypocritical as well) Look who's being fallacious now.

Completely jumping out of an argument because of that Sole factor is BULL and the fact that many of the same people are jumping RIGHT BACK IN when another topic, brought up by ME is addresses by THE SAME PEOPLE who find me annoying confirms this even more. I could just as easily say that I could drop out because you use swear words and are very aggressive with your responses. But that doesn't matter! 

 

Alot of people are being hypocritical here and I'm the only person realizing it... You seem to be the main one, yet you don't even realize it yourself. You were so ready to point out any fallacy that I typed up, yet here you are making fallacies yourself... as well as contradicting yourself and being a hypocrite.

 

Look, I'm glad you are concerned for my well being, but that is beside the point,you may see me as unpleasant, but isn't that to be expected when a Solitary Kid is debating with people who are several years older than himself, many of which are much more knowledgeable in many subjects? It isn't to say that I'm right or wrong, it's just the notion that many people aren't even accepting what I have to say.

 

And besides, I wasn't even trying to make myself out to be the ROCK HARD DEBATER WHO KNOWS EVERYTHING. Just a simple chat/discussion. I'm not even serious in Nature, I'm usually laid back and chill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Thread's been bumped I see. Ah well, I was going to get around to that big Mephiles rant and the process of how I'd make him a better, actual competent villain anyway.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

My thoughs on Sonic 2006 when I finish the game for the first time.

 

-the only characters I care about was Sonic and Silver.

-i though Sonic had the best story. He was the reason I want to play more. He was so caring sefless and didnt care what happen to him

-I though Tails was the worst character and then Shadow. Im sorry. When I first play the game I though they were boring.

-I was a little intrested in Knuckles and Elise. I didnt care about Amy.

-Eggman scared me his look. That design I had nightmeres that it was chasing me. Its true

-I though Sonic and Silver have the best gameplay

-I though Amy and Tails had the worse

-I love the story

-Rouge was cute

-I didnt see enough Sonic

-This game make Sonic my role model

 

 

My thoughs on Sonic 2006 now:

-Sonic and Silver are still the best in the game

-I love Princess Elise

-Tails was boring but he isnt a terrible character

-I like Eggmans design

-I like Shadows stages more. I dont like him

-I really like Silvers Dusty Desert and Crisis City

-I can toloerate Amy

-Mephiles is a ok villian

-I love the story

-Not enough Sonic

 

all my opinion from before and now

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Thread's been bumped I see. Ah well, I was going to get around to that big Mephiles rant and the process of how I'd make him a better, actual competent villain anyway.

1) Just have Mephiles go and do the whole plan by himself without all of the convoluted stuff (He's a Shadow Demon thing for crying out loud; that's pretty damn powerful if you ask me), and make the plot of the game about Sonic and friends trying to undo the damage he's done while figuring out where he is/what his origins are in the damaged passages of time and space.

 

/done .

[Blacklightning]

1) Just have Mephiles go and do the whole plan by himself without all of the convoluted stuff (He's a Shadow Demon thing for crying out loud; that's pretty damn powerful if you ask me), and make the plot of the game about Sonic and friends trying to undo the damage he's done while figuring out where he is/what his origins are in the damaged passages of time and space.

 

/done .

So basically Generations, except replace the Time Eater with Mephiles.

 

I could live with that.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

So basically Generations, except replace the Time Eater with Mephiles.

 

I could live with that.

 

Kinda, except a bit more fleshed out. I mean if you REALLY want Mephiles to have some degree of cunning, you could probably have him try to create illusions that make Sonic and friends believe they're in a place where everything is perfectly normal, except due to his lack of detailed knowledge of them, there are small details that are wrong that eventually get noticed...or something like that.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1) Just have Mephiles go and do the whole plan by himself without all of the convoluted stuff (He's a Shadow Demon thing for crying out loud; that's pretty damn powerful if you ask me), and make the plot of the game about Sonic and friends trying to undo the damage he's done while figuring out where he is/what his origins are in the damaged passages of time and space.

 

/done .

I'm actually more of the thought of having Eggman brainwash/mindwipe Mephiles, and/or just have Mephiles straight-up work for Eggman until Shadow's interference somehow "reboots" his memory thus enticing him to straight up kill Sonic and advance upon his own goals.

 

Trust me, I'll expand a heck of a lot more on this concept in a later post.

[DBZHedgy]

Ehh...

Generations has alot of unanswered questions in it...

 

I greatly prefer 06's story over generations, but that's just me 

[Brad]

They're both pretty terrible stories, but at least Generations' is coherent. 

[DBZHedgy]

I can understand Vagueness but... Generations takes it too far...

What is actually explained in that game??? Besides... y'know the generic, I'm going to use X to take over the world

[Brad]

It's a basic "oh no let's stop the bad guy from destroying the world story" in its blandest form. It explained how Eggman recovered from Sonic Colours and how Time Eater came about, at least. Dialogue was awful though, much like Colours. Sonic 06 had a "monster of the week" story with flawed and overly complicated time travel plot holes. The voice acting was awful and the dialogue wasn't exceptional either.

 

Sonic games are pretty terrible in the story department in general.

[Diogenes]

To not deviate too far from '06's basic concept, the thing about Mephiles is, he's this superpowered time traveler, but they never explain why he can't just blip in whenever and fuse with Iblis? If you're generous to the game (which is more than it deserves) you could say that he could only fuse with Iblis when it had been released in that particular way, but it's still dumb because they never actually say anything of the sort and they never even hint at any kind of physical or metaphorical reason for it to work like that (which is why a lot of the emotional impact falls flat, because everything is just a big dumb contrivance that's the equivalent of a big neon sign saying "here is where you have the emotions!").

It also doesn't really make much sense why he brings Silver into things. Presumably the point of it was to have Silver harass Sonic so that he and Elise end up spending more time together and eventually bonding, but why didn't he just do it himself? It's not as if he didn't have the time, considering he can time travel, and it's not as if he wasn't strong enough, since he had no trouble fucking around with Shadow.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

To not deviate too far from '06's basic concept, the thing about Mephiles is, he's this superpowered time traveler, but they never explain why he can't just blip in whenever and fuse with Iblis? If you're generous to the game (which is more than it deserves) you could say that he could only fuse with Iblis when it had been released in that particular way, but it's still dumb because they never actually say anything of the sort and they never even hint at any kind of physical or metaphorical reason for it to work like that (which is why a lot of the emotional impact falls flat, because everything is just a big dumb contrivance that's the equivalent of a big neon sign saying "here is where you have the emotions!").

It also doesn't really make much sense why he brings Silver into things. Presumably the point of it was to have Silver harass Sonic so that he and Elise end up spending more time together and eventually bonding, but why didn't he just do it himself? It's not as if he didn't have the time, considering he can time travel, and it's not as if he wasn't strong enough, since he had no trouble fucking around with Shadow.

 

Hence why he should have just done all of the stuff himself, with Sonic and co (and Silver) dealing with the backlash and trying to fix the damage like I mentioned earlier. A lot more straightforward and less stupid.

[UltDevilDoom]

Shadow's story was the only credible reason to play Sonic '06, but it's not enough. Sonic's story was dragged down by Princess Elise and "romance", and I can't stand Silver at all mostly because of Sonic '06.

 

Also, the gameplay was terrible. As if I need to tell anyone here that.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Don't see how comparing 06's story to Generations, which came after it BTW, makes it suddenly better/relevant in any way, shape, or form.

 

Oh, and I see we're bringing up how to make Mephiles a "better" villain. Uh, simple? Kill Elise and the Flames of Disaster are released, bravo. Such a pointless villain scheme to kill Sonic and get Elise to cry when the answer is right in front of your fucking face.

[Blacklightning]

Oh, and I see we're bringing up how to make Mephiles a "better" villain. Uh, simple? Kill Elise and the Flames of Disaster are released, bravo. Such a pointless villain scheme to kill Sonic and get Elise to cry when the answer is right in front of your fucking face.

One problem with that.

Elise already dies in the story.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsxObGouqXo

This is also the worst cutscene in the entire game.

 

If it were as simple as that, Mephiles could've just jumped right to this moment and gobbled Iblis up after the crash. But for whatever reason, the Flames of Disaster don't manifest at all, so simply murdering Elise doesn't appear to be enough... or at least that's probably what they were thinking at the time anyway. I'm admittedly kind of confused about this myself. It's clear enough from Silver's future that Iblis ends up getting released eventually and fucking everything up for everyone, so if not through Mephiles's intervention, how the fuck does Iblis end up being released? Ugh, more plotholes.

What I'm getting at here is more that these completely arbitary rules just shouldn't exist to begin with, especially if they're going to be unspoken ones with little to no emphasis given in the narrative. Like a lot of things surrounding '06, fixing it more or less involves a complete re-write to change the metaphorical grounds of engagement. And while killing the damsel in distress right at the start of the game seems like bizarre if not plain awful pacing to me, I think EdMissile has the best general idea - replace Iblis's future with Mephiles's, scrap the bonding subplot entirely and put him in a position where he's already in complete control, leaving the objective of the game something more akin to putting the pieces back together and making enough sense of what happened to be able to confront him about it.

 

Fuck if I know how Eggman fits into it. Mephiles doesn't seem like the type that defers to anyone even under force, so I can't really see him as a minion. And to have him in Eggman's master plan only for it to backfire on him just seems like it would be repeating the same mistakes the Adventure era made, which was frankly already getting fucking stale at the time, much less today. I guess just have him lean on Iblis instead?

[Semi-colon e]

I get the impression in that cutscene Iblis wasn't released because future!Sonic had already saved Elise and fought the Egg Wyvern but had to do it from "this Sonic"'s perspective.

 

As to why we still get the ruined future and why Silver goes to the future, realising that it hasn't changed, I have no idea.

 

Also note that we NEVER get an explanation as to why the Egg Carrier is crashing. It just crashes because the plot demands it. Would have been interesting if Mephiles had attacked it or something, not only to make it make more sense, but give Mephiles something to do that is in Sonic's story. Maybe? I dunno.