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thedarkknight

Official Sonic 2006 topic

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... You don't know how wrong you are.

In Sonic Adventure 1, no matter what happens (if the Master Emerald is restored or shattered) Angel Island is ALWAYS attached to the mainland in mystic ruins.

... especially since Angel Island doesn't move at all during the events of Sonic Adventure, except for the CG cutscene of it falling.

Nope.

No, absolutely No.

Where does it say that this is actually the case? That's just it, it doesn't. It's speculation, and diagnosis. No where in the game does it say that Blaze is referring to Silver,

Nowhere in the game does it say she's referring to Sonic. But it makes perfect sense if she's referring to Silver, because she never even acknowledges Sonic at any other point in the game, and she repeatedly calls Silver naive throughout it.

She was clearly not referring to him seeing as how she didn't STOP him, or much less WARN HIM about a Naive hedgehog ruining the future.

Except she didn't know, for a fact, that "a naive hedgehog" would ruin things. She never got a vision the way Silver did. But hearing him talk about a "blue/naive hedgehog" causing things made her worry that his naive nature might do more harm than good, and tried to subtly guide him.

What I was trying to say is:

ALL VILLAINS have SOME FLAW that make them lose in the long run. It would be no surprise to me if you've heard something along the lines of "The good guy always wins". This is because every villain has some miscalculation or downright stupid moment keeping them from being the ultimate villain. The only way Mephiles would be considered a good villain is if Sonic and friends died and Time was consumed. That wouldn't leave a good taste in the players mouth now would it?

No one is saying that Mephiles needed to win to be a good villain. No one is saying that Mephiles needed to be flawless to be a good villain. Any attempt to argue "but it would be dumb if he won!" is pointless because no one is arguing the opposite.

Mephiles doesn't even lose because of a flaw. He loses because ripping time and space a new one coincidentally transported everyone who matters to the same time and place so they could collect the emeralds, get the hedgehogs to go Super, and have them beat him/Solaris up.

And to think, all of this could've been tied up with an "explain everything" cutscene. Is it really that big of a deal? All the writers had to do was tie up loose ends. ANYONE could do that. They however neglected to do so, so I see your point.

So they were too incompetent to do something that "anyone" could do.

Dude, look. When you write a story, you need to make it make sense. You can't just pin the job of explaining things on the reader and ask them to fill in the gaps you were too lazy or incompetent to do yourself.

Since many gamers cannot seem to playthrough Sonic and the Secret Rings WITHOUT dying,

This has nothing to do with anything.

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When Erazor uses the 7 world rings he becomes the creator of the stories, and he begins re-writing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTHEcZQWlDU&hd=1

Start at 3:35

 

 

No his plans would not have succeeded either way. The other way beside Sonic collecting the rings is Sonic dying trying or him dying because he took to long. That was really stupid, that is unless he was bluffing, but the game doesn't make that clear does it? Therefore he is STUPID.

Also, How would it succeed if he doesn't have the ability to track down the world rings? You just said that he specifically used Sonic to both find them AND sacrifice him. 

 

Incredibly well-executed and Legitimate his role turned out to be? 

He curses Sonic and tells him to fetch some rings. Big wh00p. Not only that, but he can still very much FAIL at retrieving the rings. His plan isn't fail proof. It has holes in them, and that's HIS ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE HIS GOAL. Mephiles does not have to deal with this issue because he always has one sharp move up his sleeve if all else fails, and that's what he did. 

 

Fails miserably huh? No. It would've worked if shadow didn't step in. Silver almost killed sonic TWICE. That isn't failing miserably, especially since his entire plan wasn't heavily dependent on this.

And all Silver said was HOW to bring Sonic back to life. Doctor Eggman was the one who said that they had to defeat him through all three time zones.

 

How can you even say that? The game doesn't make clear who won at the end of Shadow's Story. That's like Saying Sonic is the bestest ever since you beat Shadow in Hero mode of Sonic Adventure 2(Ark battle).

 

And to think, all of this could've been tied up with an "explain everything" cutscene. Is it really that big of a deal? All the writers had to do was tie up loose ends. ANYONE could do that. They however neglected to do so, so I see your point.

 

That's all you really said. Erazor is a good villain because his plan doesn't fail, even though it has a lot of possibility to fail. Since many gamers cannot seem to playthrough Sonic and the Secret Rings WITHOUT dying, then that pretty much voids his plan in several universes in which Sonic does Die. Mephiles doesn't have to worry about that though.

 

Your failing to see the counter to your prior statement.

1. No. That scene was the botched sacrifice resulting in Erazor absorbing FOUR of the world rings and becoming a ranting lunatic who claims to be "THE CREATOR!!!!" while Sonic absorbed the other three and became Darkspine Sonic.

 

2.The story makes very well sure, NOT to make Sonic collecting the world rings the only method of attaining them and supplying Erazor's plans. I know for a fact, there's not a single cutscene you'll be able to find from Secret Rings that states it's the only way. Try again.

 

3. I never said Erazor's plan was fail-proof, so I'll kindly ask that you cut the crap there. YOU on the other hand have shilled Mephiles' plans as "failproof" which they very well aren't.

 

4. Mephiles just apparently chooses to do stuff the complicated route, for no given or competent reason. And he fails miserably at it all. To top it all off, what you call the "sharp move up his sleeve" was the most obvious move he SHOULD have done in this first place. That makes him come off as an idiot villain.

 

5. The mere fact that his alterior methods could have worked does not change the fact that they blow up in his face.

 

6. And would Silver have been there if it weren't for Mephiles? Would Silver have even learned about the Chaos Emeralds? Nope. Mephiles' plan saw Silver to the past where he got the know-how to help formulate the plan in the end.

 

7. The ending of Shadow's Story and the first scene with Team Dark during the Last Story, make it very clear Shadow and company won that fight, and that Mephiles chickened out and left. Try and find a scene that can prove that wrong.

 

8. It and the story itself, needed a hell of a truckload of patches to blot out the plot-holes. I wouldn't really condone trying to explain it all in one scene for the sake of merit.

 

9. Bullshit, if you really think that's ALL I was saying you obviously need to read it again.

 

10. You're seriously trying to use non-canon deaths that would supposedly foil Erazor's and trying to pawn that off as something that wouldn't possibly affect Mephiles plans.tumblr_mkpd1voQMF1qi325ao1_250.gif

With hypocrisy like that......

I fear for you.

Edited by Jovahexeon the Slipstream

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In conjunction with everyone's signatures and all the media that is embedded on this page as is, I don't think all those high-res gifs are really necessary, Jova.  They're sort of slowing the page down and they really aren't doing much for your point.

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Another thing that annoyed me in this game is this:

 

Remember that scene where Silver goes back in the past for the second time, where after Iblis gets sealed in Elise and Silver gives her the blue emerald (which was supposed to explain why she had it in the beginning of the story)

Well, in Shadow's story, this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pw2Js6pSN6o#t=938

 

Yeah, that just fucked the whole plot.

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In conjunction with everyone's signatures and all the media that is embedded on this page as is, I don't think all those high-res gifs are really necessary, Jova.  They're sort of slowing the page down and they really aren't doing much for your point.

Gotcha'! Don't worry, I took the unnecessary bunch out!biggrin.png

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Another thing that annoyed me in this game is this:

 

Remember that scene where Silver goes back in the past for the second time, where after Iblis gets sealed in Elise and Silver gives her the blue emerald (which was supposed to explain why she had it in the beginning of the story)

Well, in Shadow's story, this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pw2Js6pSN6o#t=938

 

Yeah, that just fucked the whole plot.

 

Actually, I would like to consider this as this is from Shadow's perspective. Shadow just assumed that Silver just toke the emerald with him but from Silver's, he gave it to Elise so which perspective would you go for? The perspective where Shadow just assumed on what happened or the perspective where Silver actually did it? This is similar to the Sonic vs Silver fight at Soleanna Castle Town. So no, this didn't fucked it up and Johnny is wrong once again.

 

That's Childish, just like when Eggman gets angry when the eclipse cannon doesn't fire. Don't you remember Rouge saying "Look at you, throwing a fit like a little kid, how embarrassing". That isn't out of character.

Doing nothing? 5 Seconds of waiting for the princess to come on board WILLINGLY, yet that's doing nothing? BULL - CRAP

The reason Eggman DOESN'T just take the emerald is because he needs it to trap Sonic in the future, and test his Solaris Prototype machine.

How does any of those things make Eggman look like a hypocrite?

 

Hypocrisy

noun
 
  1. 1.
    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

 

----------

When has it ever been stated that Sonic and Knuckles was a separate Canon to Sonic 3? Spoiler Alert! It doesn't. EVER.

 

What about Tails? What about everyone else who has been on Sonic's Adventures with him and CANNOT abuse the power of the emeralds? Amy? Big? Cream? Rouge? HECK, EVEN EGGMAN of all people who has collected them since the beginning has NEVER used the power of the emeralds. EVERYTHING about the chaos emeralds is a ...buttpull. They are the chance items of the universe. Bad mans kidnapping animals? Get those chaos emeralds! Bad Guy stealing a giant Emerald (one that controls all of the chaos emeralds)? Get those Chaos Emeralds! Giant Water beast angry about people abusing Chao? Get Those Chaos Emeralds! A Giant Lizard has fused with a space colony and is planning to crash into the earth? Get those Chaos Emeralds! Wanna know the secrets to your past? Get those Chaos Emeralds! Need to travel through time? Get Those Chaos Emeralds! The planets torn apart? Get Restore those Chaos Emeralds! A robot lost his Memory? Get those Chaos Emeralds! Eggman's just being an overall jerk? Get those Chaos Emeralds! Need to find more Chaos Emeralds? Get those Chaos Emeralds! Toilet's clogged? Get those Chaos Emeralds!

 

I don't have any... buttpulls for you. That is a fact straight from Sonic Adventure 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqijv85vDks&hd=1

Knuckles Carries the Master Emerald all the way from wherever he was when he restored it to the core of the cannon. (7:30 - 7:45)

And in the entire game of Sonic Adventure Angel Island is attached to the mainland by a bridge

 

These are earlier established moments of Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. Therefore they are NITPICKS if these problems are pointed towards Sonic 06.

And a nitpick isn't hating a game for a stupid reason... well it kinda is, but that's not necessarily the case with you Nack the Weasel/Fang the Sniper example. A Nit pick is being overly critical in one area of anything and being completely forgiving in another game or instance with no real reason.

Or Rather:

Nit Pick

1. to be excessively concerned with or critical of inconsequential details.

2. to criticize by focusing on inconsequential details.

 

From Dictionary.com*

 

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So if blaze has absolutely No idea who Sonic is, why exactly would she question if said blue hedgehog were responsible for such acts? "Iblis Trigger? A Blue Hedgehog? Can it be True? I've got to find Silver fast!"

----------

 

Like everyone else? Your being a hypocrite, you did exactly what you didn't want me to do. How can I be so willing to not behave as such if the very people who tell me NOT to act this way ARE acting this way?

 

----------

 

That was made prior to my apology, therefore that too is under the jurisdiction of the apology.

And I must note that said Topic didn't discourage peoples liking of the game. I in fact mentioned that it's Alright if you liked the game and I simply wanted to know why it was considered good. How about you go back and READ THE TOPIC before posting false accusations about it?

 

 

That is the only time where he acts a bit childish, every other time he's just a bland villain with no personality or charm. The the later games, Eggman has quite the energetic personality, he makes jokes,he great sense of humor and can be very cunning at times and he's always egotistical. When I see Eggman in this game, I see nothing that resembles like the Eggman every fan knows and loves. Like he's just so generic and uninteresting, this is by far the WORST portrayal of Eggman yet and there is no arguments about that, unless you are actually going to challenge this then fine by me, even Eggman in Shadow had more personality than Generic Gentleman Villain-man. In the Adventures, when Eggman wants something he fucking takes it with force, why does he even bother trying to tell Elise to come with him like he should know that she won't, so why does he do it anyway? Just fucking take the bitch for all I care and if he did, then he'll have the emerald as well and lure Sonic into his chamber and then use him as his test subject, but nope he decides to take his fucking time, how is this Eggman better than other portrayals again? 

 

Well has the Super Emeralds ever got mentioned before? Was it ever stated that Tails had a Super form? No, then 3&K is not canon to the series, other members already stated so I'm not wasting my time with this.

 

I really don't get what you're trying to say here? Like sure the Emeralds never did have a clear limit to them but I digress. Actually Colors and Lost World didn't need the emeralds in the first place, so yeah. Tails researched on the emerald to use it on his Tornado II in Adventure and Eggman used the emeralds as well to power some of his robots like the Egg Genesis Silver fought in White Acropolis. Yeah, the emeralds were a big deus ex machina but I doubt that's really an issue though. 

 

But I'm not talking about Adventure 2, stop dodging the question, it's another reason people are having trouble respecting you, you avoid their fats by introducing something else entirely different to the matter, so can you please cut that shit out, and I'm speaking nicely. Other members already talked about this so I'm going to be simple about this, well I don't see how Knuckles' irrelevance in 06 can be considered "excessive" since he has no purpose being there and it can be solved just fine if Tails gave the message to Sonic.

 

Well that's not really saying much though, it's just as vague. Diogenes and Indigo Rush already covered this so read their posts about this matter.

 

But I'm not dodging the question, again you're pointing the finger at us again to save your ass, just drop this argument and admit that the game is bad but you can still gain some sort of fun out of it. I did and I'm not being butthurt about it and this is from a guy that thinks the game is kinds of underrated, it's bad but not an entire piece of shit like Superman 64 or Big Rigs.

 

Well you are clearly telling people why they enjoy this game when you think it's terrible so a person would assume that you're convincing people that the game is bad, making it sound rather rude and condescending which is the exact reason why that topic got locked. And from what I see after that so-called "apology", I don't see much improvement from you after you said so.

Edited by Soni

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Yet every other game since then does.

 

Also do you have any idea how game development or design works? Doing that would require an entirely new area to be constructed as well as a system put in place which would mean the player could access this area from a specific point at a specific time in the games completion which would have to occur post main game completion.

 

Aside from having a huge amount of time added to development, you also have to deal with matters of memory when constructing something like that in a game which was already pushed like Sonic Adventure. 

 

Vs the following.

 

"Lets just leave it there since it's only one game."

 

Edit: Hang on... .. ... wait... yes it does climb up again, it does that at the end of Knuckles' story. 

No it doesn't. Every game after this don't even mention the Super Emeralds, much less explain that they aren't canon.

Just because Mecha Sonic isn't ever referenced again doesn't mean he never existed.

 

Whether or not it was a hardware limitation or not, it's still very relevant to the point I'm trying to make. They couldv'e at least tweaked this in the HD release of Sonic Adventure for PS3. Ever heard of Kingdom Hearts HD remix? 1.5 and/or 2.5? They actually made changes to the previous game with the new sets of gameplay tools that are present in the PS3. But since it ISN'T changed, then that must mean that the devs found it just fine leaving it the way it was.

 

And no it doesn't. al-time.jpg

 

 

Up until today... nobody has ever thought this.

 

Are you seriously arguing that Knuckles has been carrying the master emerald around with him in every game since Sonic Adventure 2? 

I've come across several topics, videos and several other internet thingies where people are wondering why he isn't guarding the master emerald. I think it was Roger, but I can't be bothered to find the video in which he talks about it. It really isn't relevant though so it doesn't matter.

 

And it would explain why he NEVER GUARDS IT AGAIN EVER since Sonic adventure 2.

 

 

@DBZHedgy: You're penny picking the crap outta this... but one thing I see where you can be confused by Adventure angel island because when I was little so was I. But I BELIEVE that Mystic Ruin is only connected through that mountain scape to AI. Because the rocks crumble revealing it when it lands and ish and blargh. I THINK. Because why would Tails' workshop be on AI?

By the way I know I already said this but you're picking at the table scraps man.. of course Knuckles carried it in S3 he had to get it back to theIisland somehow.. Please read up on Sonic information before posting things that may or may not be true, it's offensive to those who've dedicated it to memory(not me sorry if I offended anyone)

Oh so everyone else gets to penny pick but its some terrible law breaking offense when I do it huh?

 

That's an interesting theory though... What if the master emerald shrine broke apart from the rest of Angel Island and since then it's been called the Mystic Ruins? I'll have to look into that further.

 

I... just posted a picture which shows Knuckles Carrying the master emerald outside of the island while it's floating o_o;

The only reason I bring these up is because I know that's how I saw it when I was playing the games for myself.

And I find it a bit Jarring that as many times that I've shown physical evidence of what I've stated being true, I'm the one who has to look up on Sonic information before I post?

 

 

Nope.

Nowhere in the game does it say she's referring to Sonic. But it makes perfect sense if she's referring to Silver, because she never even acknowledges Sonic at any other point in the game, and she repeatedly calls Silver naive throughout it.

Except she didn't know, for a fact, that "a naive hedgehog" would ruin things. She never got a vision the way Silver did. But hearing him talk about a "blue/naive hedgehog" causing things made her worry that his naive nature might do more harm than good, and tried to subtly guide him.

No one is saying that Mephiles needed to win to be a good villain. No one is saying that Mephiles needed to be flawless to be a good villain. Any attempt to argue "but it would be dumb if he won!" is pointless because no one is arguing the opposite.

Mephiles doesn't even lose because of a flaw. He loses because ripping time and space a new one coincidentally transported everyone who matters to the same time and place so they could collect the emeralds, get the hedgehogs to go Super, and have them beat him/Solaris up.

 

So they were too incompetent to do something that "anyone" could do.

Dude, look. When you write a story, you need to make it make sense. You can't just pin the job of explaining things on the reader and ask them to fill in the gaps you were too lazy or incompetent to do yourself.

This has nothing to do with anything.

Take a look at the image above

 

Who else would she be referring to? Nowhere in the game does it say that she's referring to Silver. If by repeatedly you mean twice than yes. But as I said earlier, She had ample time to warn silver that he could be the one to cause destruction upon the future. Yet she didn't. In fact she tells him directly that if he doesn't do this the future will stay the same. If that is the case, then Blaze would be a hypocrite since she wants to condone the same actions that she believed to cause the destruction of the future.

 

Yes, he does lose because of a flaw. 

If he didn't make silver try and kill Sonic, then Silver would never know how to bring Sonic back to life. Bringing Sonic to life causes his destruction in the long end since Sonic, Shadow and Silver are the only 3 who can turn super. And since they have to defeat Solaris in 3 planes of Time, That is entirely necessary.

 

Right, because they CLEARLY weren't scrapped for time. Being scrapped for time doesn't mean that their incompetent. The developers of Sonic 3 weren't incompetent or lazy because they couldn't make Sonic and Knuckles a part of Sonic 3 were they? 

 

That has EVERYTHING to do with Anything. More specifically, Erazor's plan succeeding. 

 

 

Fun fact: Sky Sanctuary Zone in Knuckles's story of S&K has the usual time limit of 10 minutes. It also has the very cool tidbit that Angel Island is sinking slowly off the screen throughout the boss fights, and will fall completely offscreen at the 10 minute mark. The falling only stops when you beat the boss and Sonic flies Knuckles back to the island with the Master Emerald in hand, as you've conveniently provided a screenshot of. That the whole island flashes white when the Tornado reaches it and that Knuckles and the Master Emerald stay behind when Sonic flies off are relevant details.

 

Also if you don't get the Chaos Emeralds, and save the Master Emerald, Angel Island falls into the ocean. This provides a demonstration of both a scenario where the Master Emerald is returned, and one where it is not, and the immediate after-effects of both such scenarios.

 

This means that you are wrong. I have zero confidence in you that you will admit that you're wrong, but you still are wrong.

It's interesting though... In Sonic Adventure. The CGI cutscene potray Angel Island hitting the surface of the water in a matter of seconds. Where as Sonic 3K show it taking 10 minutes to fall entirely? Totally Legit.

 

Hold on a second! I was just about to agree with you when I realized that Angel Island was already at sea level when Sonic and Tails got there. Since Eggman didn't take the master emerald until the end of the game this clearly contradicts a lot of what was previously established about Angel Island's floating properties.

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Angel Island doesn't float at the end of Sonic Adventure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmxGIOI-4Y

Yes it does.

That video is from Sonic Adventure.

 

This is the second time this was posted and yet you're still saying otherwise...

And it would explain why he NEVER GUARDS IT AGAIN EVER since Sonic adventure 2.

So yes you are saying that Knuckles has been carrying the master emerald around with him since Sonic Adventure 2?

Again, I have to ask, have you actually played any of these games, only you're getting a ton of very basic stuff so amazingly wrong I don't know where to start.

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I... just posted a picture which shows Knuckles Carrying the master emerald outside of the island while it's floating o_o;

It was falling, slowly. If the emerald wasn't returned, it would have fallen into the ocean.

And I find it a bit Jarring that as many times that I've shown physical evidence of what I've stated being true, I'm the one who has to look up on Sonic information before I post?

It's because you consistently forget, ignore, manipulate, or misinterpret what happens in the games.

Who else would she be referring to? Nowhere in the game does it say that she's referring to Silver.

...and at no point does the game say that she's referring to Sonic. If it can't be Silver because the game doesn't explicitly say it's Silver, then it can't be Sonic because the game doesn't explicitly say it's Sonic.

But it is Silver, because that's what makes sense.

Yes, he does lose because of a flaw. 

If he didn't make silver try and kill Sonic, then Silver would never know how to bring Sonic back to life. Bringing Sonic to life causes his destruction in the long end since Sonic, Shadow and Silver are the only 3 who can turn super. And since they have to defeat Solaris in 3 planes of Time, That is entirely necessary.

Except that anyone could have suggested that, and it had nothing to do with what Mephiles did.

Right, because they CLEARLY weren't scrapped for time. Being scrapped for time doesn't mean that their incompetent. The developers of Sonic 3 weren't incompetent or lazy because they couldn't make Sonic and Knuckles a part of Sonic 3 were they?

Note that they did not release Sonic 3 in a fundamentally incomplete state, but split it into two parts that make sense both on their own and when combined. As compared to '06 which is terrible no matter what you do.

That has EVERYTHING to do with Anything. More specifically, Erazor's plan succeeding.

The fact that the player can die has nothing to do with the story. At all. It's utter nonsense.

It's interesting though... In Sonic Adventure. The CGI cutscene potray Angel Island hitting the surface of the water in a matter of seconds. Where as Sonic 3K show it taking 10 minutes to fall entirely? Totally Legit.

Because they're not going to have a 10 minute cutscene showing it fall.

Hold on a second! I was just about to agree with you when I realized that Angel Island was already at sea level when Sonic and Tails got there. Since Eggman didn't take the master emerald until the end of the game this clearly contradicts a lot of what was previously established about Angel Island's floating properties.

It was at sea level because the Death Egg fell on it. This is explained in the Japanese manual.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7CwMhHzbNE

 

Hi there, Master Emerald (2:02)

 

In the sky level

 

Without Knuckles

 

...

 

You know, I'm still not quite sure what any of this has to do with Sonic 2006.

 

Probably due to someone trying to dodge an earlier question.
 

 

Wonder who.

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Mystic Ruins is not part of Angel Island. Proof? Talk to the Explorers. They say that wall that leads to Angel Island only recently appeared. Also if it was Angel Island, how would the bloody train system work? Also, Angel Island fell after the Master Emerald was reformed again for one reason. It lacked Chaos. In the past, Chaos wasn't sealed away inside, hence it didn't levitate the island. My theroy is that with him sealed away, it gained extra powers to safe guard the emerald. When it was reformed, it had some left over chaos energy which allowed it to float for a short time. Lastly, Sega have been remarkably lazy with ports, especially SA1's. They wouldn't change a detail that miniscule as they wouldn't care.

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Crash can die due to the player in Crash 2 thereby "ruining" Cortex's plans.

Sora can die at any point in the Kingdom Hearts series due to the player effectively "ruining" Xehanorts entire goal.

Sonic can die in Secret Rings due to the player effectively "ruining" Erazor's goal.

But these aren't CANON deaths, so I don't see why they are being used in the first place. Dying in gameplay literally has no weight on anything. This is a VIDEO GAME after all, where trial and error are a thing. :/

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More like Fallen Island Timeline.

 

I actually spent a bit of time trying to figure the whole thing out.

 

4ktv9f.jpg

 

 

This is the only way I could justify Sonic 2006's story, and most of it is filled with assumptions.

 

That's how convoluted the story actually is.

 

That is crap.

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Actually, I would like to consider this as this is from Shadow's perspective. Shadow just assumed that Silver just toke the emerald with him but from Silver's, he gave it to Elise so which perspective would you go for? The perspective where Shadow just assumed on what happened or the perspective where Silver actually did it? This is similar to the Sonic vs Silver fight at Soleanna Castle Town. So no, this didn't fucked it up and Johnny is wrong once again.

Perceptive? No, it's inconsistency.  You can't have Silver do one thing in his story and have him do something different in another.  That scene should've ended as soon as Shadow entered the portal, which would exclude the part where Silver gave Elise the blue emerald. That would be from Shadow's perspective.

 

Sorry, not even head-canon can fill this plot-hole.

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Hold on a second! I was just about to agree with you when I realized that Angel Island was already at sea level when Sonic and Tails got there. Since Eggman didn't take the master emerald until the end of the game this clearly contradicts a lot of what was previously established about Angel Island's floating properties.

 

It didn't contradict anything. The reason why it was at sea level, even with the Master Emerald still powering it, is because after the events of Sonic 2, the Death Egg literally fell on top of Angel Island and was so heavy, being a gigantic space station and all, that it overrode Angel Island's natural floatiness and caused it to fall in to the ocean below. This is important to the story because this is how Knuckles came across Eggman to begin with.

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Perceptive? No, it's inconsistency.  You can't have Silver do one thing in his story and have him do something different in another.  That scene should've ended as soon as Shadow entered the portal, which would exclude the part where Silver gave Elise the blue emerald. That would be from Shadow's perspective.

 

Sorry, not even head-canon can fill this plot-hole.

 

But it can since Shadow only assumed on what happened with Silver and Elise, sure t would have been better if they just cut it entirely but the idea will still be the same. It was from Shadow's perspective, which was only an assumption, and what Silver did was true, which was a fact. But I digress.

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You know, pretty much the whole game wouldn't of happened if Sonic just ran to some other city and never saved Elise, because then Elise would have no reason to cry because Murphy has no backup plan. Then it's just a matter of waiting for Eggman to get frustrated and just ransom her off or something and the world is saved.

 

Sonic 06 teaches us the truly heroic lessons. Never help people ever again and you too can save mankind!!

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1. No. That scene was the botched sacrifice resulting in Erazor absorbing FOUR of the world rings and becoming a ranting lunatic who claims to be "THE CREATOR!!!!" while Sonic absorbed the other three and became Darkspine Sonic.

 

2.The story makes very well sure, NOT to make Sonic collecting the world rings the only method of attaining them and supplying Erazor's plans. I know for a fact, there's not a single cutscene you'll be able to find from Secret Rings that states it's the only way. Try again.

 

3. I never said Erazor's plan was fail-proof, so I'll kindly ask that you cut the crap there. YOU on the other hand have shilled Mephiles' plans as "failproof" which they very well aren't.

 

4. Mephiles just apparently chooses to do stuff the complicated route, for no given or competent reason. And he fails miserably at it all. To top it all off, what you call the "sharp move up his sleeve" was the most obvious move he SHOULD have done in this first place. That makes him come off as an idiot villain.

 

5. The mere fact that his alterior methods could have worked does not change the fact that they blow up in his face.

 

6. And would Silver have been there if it weren't for Mephiles? Would Silver have even learned about the Chaos Emeralds? Nope. Mephiles' plan saw Silver to the past where he got the know-how to help formulate the plan in the end.

 

7. The ending of Shadow's Story and the first scene with Team Dark during the Last Story, make it very clear Shadow and company won that fight, and that Mephiles chickened out and left. Try and find a scene that can prove that wrong.

 

8. It and the story itself, needed a hell of a truckload of patches to blot out the plot-holes. I wouldn't really condone trying to explain it all in one scene for the sake of merit.

 

9. Bullshit, if you really think that's ALL I was saying you obviously need to read it again.

 

10. You're seriously trying to use non-canon deaths that would supposedly foil Erazor's and trying to pawn that off as something that wouldn't possibly affect Mephiles plans.

 

With hypocrisy like that......

I fear for you.

1. So... your telling me, that he absorbed 4 rings and left 3 for no apparent reason? 3 of which that caused his demise?

 

2. No, they don't. As far as the game tells, that's his only way of collecting the rings. Without doing it himself of course.

 

3. Not necessarily Fail proof, but instead having a fail-safe in case his previous plan didn't work. 

 

4. Every Villain Fails miserably at whatever their doing. The good guy always wins. The very reason villains aren't perfect is so the Hero can win. Mephiles is one of those cases.

4(2). But the very reason it is considered Sharp is because No one was aware of his ability to do so to begin with.

 

5. That happens with every villain man. The reason Eggman Lost in Sonic Unleashed was because he didn't control Dark Gaia properly. The reason Alf Layla wa Layla lost was because he left behind 3 rings. The reason the Many generic villains lose is because they underestimated their foes' powers, or the were too weak. Any story with a happy ending in general demands for a villain to have flaws, or for their to be some hole in their plans.

 

6. I previously stated very comically that the Chaos Emeralds are a last ditch attempt for anything. If Mephiles did end up being a perfect villain he would still be killed by Shadow in some last ditch attempt. Or they would've just brought back Sonic since Sonic Generations showed that he can be brought back to life without a kiss.

 

7. No, it doesn't. Just because Eggman Ran away in the Heroes Story, it doesn't mean that he lost, because according to the Dark story, he won. 

 

8. No... it didn't. Anything could avoid being a plot hole with a bit of Random Naming and referencing to previous events. "Oh, the reason This is this way is because the transmoglofyer didn't do this and that and so on" It happens all the time in video games guy.

 

9. Not necessarily that. More specifically, you drew a lot of attention toward Erazor and the Flame of Judgement + it's properties and in relation to that how it makes him a good villain. But that it. Cuz that's all he does (that's smart anyway). And then you look at Mephiles Flaws.

 

10. And who's death would destroy Mephiles plan to become Solaris? No one's. He can travel through Time.

And all I was trying to point out was that it's more likely that Erazor's plan would Fail. It wasn't really meant to be taken Seriously. But make of it what you will.

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Save the world by letting Sonic die in Wave Ocean.

 

Actually

 

 

Someone please explain to me the logic behind that objective.

 

(never mind the Grumps, this is the only isolated clip I could find)

 

That loading screen takes up half of the video good gravy

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It's interesting though... In Sonic Adventure. The CGI cutscene potray Angel Island hitting the surface of the water in a matter of seconds. Where as Sonic 3K show it taking 10 minutes to fall entirely? Totally Legit.

It's not explicitly explained, but I think this can be chalked up to the different methods the Master Emerald was removed from where it needs to be.

 

In the case of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the island was initially knocked down into the ocean by the Death Egg. Sonic and Tails were able to raise it again, and during Knuckles' story it stays that way--until the fight with Mecha Sonic, which involves the best because fuck Metal Sonic robot-Sonic using it to turn super. It can be assumed that was draining energy from it. Aside from that, the Emerald is always 1) in the alter and/or 2) in one piece.

 

Emphasis on the later, because in Sonic Adventure, it being literally shattered into pieces when Chaos broke out of it is what causes the island to fall. It's only when it's fully restored (and is in the alter, though perhaps it doesn't necessarily have to be there? not sure) that the Island floats back up.

 

As for the final story, it isn't exactly made clear. In fact, Knuckles actually points out that the island falling despite the Master Emerald being fine is odd and he doesn't know why it happened, but theorizes it has something to do with the Chaos Emeralds he had with him. I think what's being implied is that only having six of them was messing with...something. Even if the island usually just needs the M.E., maybe if you have some Chaos Emeralds but not all of them at the alter at the same time, it screws up the system.

 

Or maybe Chaos had something to do with it, since it does have a connection of sorts with the Emerald(s).

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

What does this have to do with '06, again? Dang.

Seriously though, about Mephiles VS Eggman and other villains...the thing is, a lot of time in fiction, a villain sometimes has to be illogical or too arrogant or so on and so forth, if only because the abilities they have makes it weird that they can't just easily win.

Thing is, there's ways to make that believable.

With Eggman, it usually is; he's portrayed as a genius in terms of technology and stuff, but he's always had fatal flaws, such as overestimating himself in games like Adventure. He's awakened a bunch of ancient creatures without the single thought of "man, there's no way I'll need to make sure they're under my control, I'm just too much of a genius for them to betray me heck yea B)". At least he learned his lesson there after Unleashed, I suppose? He still likes to use powerful beings for his plans, but he's in control of them now. Aside from when Sonic interfered in Lost World, and that wasn't a mistake on Eggman's part, really.

 

Even Sonic Adventure 2, while he did a lot of cool things, had him basically manipulated throughout the entire game because Eggy never once considered the idea that his grandfather might have had plans of his own regarding Shadow and the ARK. But what makes it believable is that he had no reason to think of that--after all, Gerald was long dead and since Shadow would be instantly loyal to him because "Gerald's grandson". That's a fair assumption to make, I think.

 

Basically, Eggman is fairly consistently played as a guy who's pretty good at being evil, but is goofy enough that his mistakes make sense. It's always human error (see: arrogance and general eccentricity) more than anything, such as a lot of boss battles where he's dumb enough to just give Sonic a chance to attack. Just look at the Egg Viper fight again and tell me that he "wasn't dumb until Colours!!"

 

But with Mephiles? The way he's portrayed, we're supposed to think he's this super smart manipulator, and yeah, he manipulated, but it was for literally no reason. I can accept "evil for no reason", sure, but guess what? Silver was actually part of his big plan, not just a little moment of being a dick to one of the good guys. That isn't a bad thing on it's own, but based on what we know about Mephiles' abilities...it just plain doesn't make sense.

 

Seriously, that's the big thing. What's stopping him from going back in time to do everything himself? If he was characterized as a villain who doesn't want to get his hands dirty or something, maybe, but he gladly fights Shadow a few times, so...??? Are his powers limited? Is something stopping him from doing so? Going with ANY of those would have easily made sense of this one plot hole. Incredible.

 

Hell, make it the Power of Love on Elise's father's part for all I care, just...explain why Mephiles didn't literally just time travel to the past at some point and kill Elise to release Iblis. Of course, it would be established that whatever was protecting her would run out eventually and (after some manipulation to make sure Silver's influence on the past did...stuff that would help Meph, IDK) Mephiles would travel to that point. So essentially whatever was limiting Mephiles was just a last hope kind of thing, but y'know, that's what a certain blue hedgehog is for.

 

I don't know if anything I just said makes sense, but whatever. I need to go eat something now.

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Yes it does.

That video is from Sonic Adventure.

 

This is the second time this was posted and yet you're still saying otherwise...

So yes you are saying that Knuckles has been carrying the master emerald around with him since Sonic Adventure 2?

Again, I have to ask, have you actually played any of these games, only you're getting a ton of very basic stuff so amazingly wrong I don't know where to start.

A better representation of what I was trying to say is: It doesn't MOVE at the end of the game. The overworld contradicts the cutscene. The game could at least have the courtesy to lock off the area of Angel Island and have Knuckles and Eggman land near the forest area instead of on the island with the emerald. but they didn't.

 

I presume this, since he doesn't bother to go back to it. Except for Sonic Advance 2, but it isn't clear when that game happens.

 

Perceptive? No, it's inconsistency.  You can't have Silver do one thing in his story and have him do something different in another.  That scene should've ended as soon as Shadow entered the portal, which would exclude the part where Silver gave Elise the blue emerald. That would be from Shadow's perspective.

 

Sorry, not even head-canon can fill this plot-hole.

And very many other Sonic games do this as well.

Oh yea, why is it that Tails is the one fighting Knuckles in Tails story?

Oh yea, why is it that Tails/Amy/Knuckles is the one who saves the day in Sonic Advance?

Oh yea, why is it that You don't see Sonic Tails and Amy flying off of Prison Island in the Dark Story?

Oh yea, why is it that you don't see any of the other team after their Rival battle in Sonic Heroes? Even though they go to the same place next?

 

Nit Picking!

 

 

Crash can die due to the player in Crash 2 thereby "ruining" Cortex's plans.

Sora can die at any point in the Kingdom Hearts series due to the player effectively "ruining" Xehanorts entire goal.

Sonic can die in Secret Rings due to the player effectively "ruining" Erazor's goal.

But these aren't CANON deaths, so I don't see why they are being used in the first place. Dying in gameplay literally has no weight on anything. This is a VIDEO GAME after all, where trial and error are a thing. :/

I wasn't using that as a viable figure to go with my argument. I was simply stating that it is more likely that Sonic is to Fail and Ruin Erazor's plan.

 

 

It was falling, slowly. If the emerald wasn't returned, it would have fallen into the ocean.

It's because you consistently forget, ignore, manipulate, or misinterpret what happens in the games.

...and at no point does the game say that she's referring to Sonic. If it can't be Silver because the game doesn't explicitly say it's Silver, then it can't be Sonic because the game doesn't explicitly say it's Sonic.

But it is Silver, because that's what makes sense.

Except that anyone could have suggested that, and it had nothing to do with what Mephiles did.

Note that they did not release Sonic 3 in a fundamentally incomplete state, but split it into two parts that make sense both on their own and when combined. As compared to '06 which is terrible no matter what you do.

The fact that the player can die has nothing to do with the story. At all. It's utter nonsense.

 

Because they're not going to have a 10 minute cutscene showing it fall.

 

It was at sea level because the Death Egg fell on it. This is explained in the Japanese manual.

That contradicts Sonic Adventure's falling aspects of Angel Island then.

 

Like EVERYONE ELSE.

 

So wait... because it makes sense, Silver is the one she's talking about, yet whenever a completely valid response to why Mephiles acts the way he does makes sense, it doesn't count because...?

 

You just said:

Mephiles doesn't even lose because of a flaw.

 

I stand corrected. The dev team for Sonic 3 weren't as pressured as the team for Sonic 06 was and their team wasn't split in half to work on another new system though. If Sonic 3 didn't do so universally well do you think they would bother to release the second part to the story? 

 

The gravitational forces don't make sense though... if it did take that long, the Tidal wave wouldn't be nearly as big.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7CwMhHzbNE

 

Hi there, Master Emerald (2:02)

 

In the sky level

 

Without Knuckles

 

...

 

You know, I'm still not quite sure what any of this has to do with Sonic 2006.

 

Probably due to someone trying to dodge an earlier question.

 

 

Wonder who.

It's interesting to note that the events of this game happen BEFORE Sonic Adventure 2.

 

And that earlier question would be...? 

 

 

It didn't contradict anything. The reason why it was at sea level, even with the Master Emerald still powering it, is because after the events of Sonic 2, the Death Egg literally fell on top of Angel Island and was so heavy, being a gigantic space station and all, that it overrode Angel Island's natural floatiness and caused it to fall in to the ocean below. This is important to the story because this is how Knuckles came across Eggman to begin with.

I stand corrected.

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