Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Komodin]

It's interesting to note that the events of this game happen BEFORE Sonic Adventure 2.

 

Negative, amigo. The game features Gemerl, that black Gizoid-looking robot that is actually a rebuilt and enhanced version of Emerl, a character that shows up in Sonic Battle, which is a game that not only has Shadow as an important character, but also makes references to his backstory from Sonic Adventure 2 through Gerald Robotnik's journal entries. 

[Diogenes]

That contradicts Sonic Adventure's falling aspects of Angel Island then.

No it doesn't.

Like EVERYONE ELSE.

No. I haven't seen even a fraction as many egregious errors from the entire rest of the topic as I have from you.

So wait... because it makes sense, Silver is the one she's talking about, yet whenever a completely valid response to why Mephiles acts the way he does makes sense, it doesn't count because...?

You haven't given one.

You just said:

Yes, I did.

I stand corrected. The dev team for Sonic 3 weren't as pressured as the team for Sonic 06 was and their team wasn't split in half to work on another new system though. If Sonic 3 didn't do so universally well do you think they would bother to release the second part to the story?

Considering it was probably mostly completed at the time, yeah.

The gravitational forces don't make sense though... if it did take that long, the Tidal wave wouldn't be nearly as big.

Who cares? The exact effects of a continent falling into the ocean at a particular speed are completely irrelevant to the story. And even if you were taking a 10 minute falltime as canon (which is pretty ridiculous in itself), you couldn't even begin to do the math associated with that.

It's interesting to note that the events of this game happen BEFORE Sonic Adventure 2.

You made that up and it doesn't even make any sense. G-merl/Gemerl/whatever was created by Eggman based on Emerl, who was from Sonic Battle, a game which includes Shadow, who could not possibly be up and about before SA2.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Ok I'm pissed. Advance 3 obviously happens after Adventure 2. Gemerl is Emerl. Emerl is introduced in Sonic Battle. Battle has Shadow and Gerald as big plot points. Get your facts straight next time.

[FireBird75]

But it can since Shadow only assumed on what happened with Silver and Elise, sure it would have been better if they just cut it entirely but the idea will still be the same. It was from Shadow's perspective, which was only an assumption, and what Silver did was true, which was a fact. But I digress.

I'm sorry, but I just can't accept that.  The idea doesn't even work for reasons I've already stated.  I appreciate trying to make some sense in the story when it's pretty clear that the writers of the game didn't (now that's fan dedication!) but with that glaring difference in events I can't see as anything but a giant plot hole; and any attempts to explain it can only come from theory.

[Indigo Rush]

 

Well

 

 

Oh my? Is that Emerl? Well, no - 

 

That's G-mel. You see, G-mel was made by the parts of...

 

 

Emerl!  And remember, Emerl was in...

 

 

This game. And you know who else was in that game?

 

 

Ohhhh! And what game did he debut in?

 

 

Oh! Sonic Adventure 2!

 

So, if you can follow a logical argument, you should be able to come to the reasonable conclusion that

 

 

This game, which is a spiritual sequel to 

 

 

This game... must have come after...

 

 

This game! Which had...

 

 

This guy... guarding...

 

 

That thing... which shows up in...

 

 

This game! And this level...

 

 

Is in the sky! Floating!

 

How is it floating?

 

 

THAT THING. WHICH KNUCKLES DID NOT GUARD AT ANY POINT IN ANY GAME AFTER THIS*

 

AND PRAY TELL, WHAT LEVEL IS THIS?

 

 

oh my Angel? As in Angel Island?

 

 

WHICH ALSO APPEARED IN

 

 

THAT GAME. WHERE IT FLOATS. JUST LIKE

 

 

THIS LEVEL.

 

AND REMIND ME, WHAT GAME WAS THIS IN?

 

 

OH, THAT GAME! 

 

WHICH CAME AFTER THIS GAME

 

 

 

I DON'T TAKE KINDLY WHEN PEOPLE PULL HALF-***ED ARGUMENTS OUT OF THEIR HAT IN A VAIN ATTEMPT TO SAVE FACE

 

 

*Forgot Sonic Rivals. But that just proves my point all the more, does it not?

[Tara]

I DON'T TAKE KINDLY WHEN PEOPLE PULL HALF-***ED ARGUMENTS OUT OF THEIR HAT IN A VAIN ATTEMPT TO SAVE FACE

A reminder to keep responses civil.  This sentence really borders on flaming, so please do calm yourself.

 

Also, there's no swear filter here.  You can say 'ass' if you want.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I think somebody needs a Master Chill Pill before their Angel Mindland falls into Mystic Madness.

[Indigo Rush]

A reminder to keep responses civil.  This sentence really borders on flaming, so please do calm yourself.

 

Also, there's no swear filter here.  You can say 'ass' if you want.

 

You should have seen what I originally typed.  I'll calm down, though.

 

And I personally choose not to swear.

 

 

Not blatantly, at least

[FireBird75]

 

And very many other Sonic games do this as well.

Oh yea, why is it that Tails is the one fighting Knuckles in Tails story?

Oh yea, why is it that Tails/Amy/Knuckles is the one who saves the day in Sonic Advance?

Oh yea, why is it that You don't see Sonic Tails and Amy flying off of Prison Island in the Dark Story?

Oh yea, why is it that you don't see any of the other team after their Rival battle in Sonic Heroes? Even though they go to the same place next?

 

Nit Picking!

 

 

I'm not justifying the inconsistencies of the other games.

 

• I don't why Tails fights Knuckles in his story. They just make the player do that for some reason.
• Sonic saves the day in Sonic Advance when he beat Eggman on the moon.  The other characters can beat the Egg X purely for gameplay reasons.
• I don't know.  They just didn't put that in for the Dark story for some reason.
• I don't know. Because they just don't see each other until they meet up again on the Egg Fleet.

Again, not denying there are inconsistencies in other games (This series isn't exactly known for it's precise storytelling)

The big difference is that the inconsistencies for those games don't hurt entire narrative of their receptive plots.  Sonic 06's inconsistencies, however, do.   This is why the Adventure stories are considered good (or at least passable) while 06's is considered bad (or at worst terrible).

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

It's interesting to note that the events of this game happen BEFORE Sonic Adventure 2.

ANYONE who has played a lot of Sonic games knows that what you said here was bullcrap.

Like Hogfather said just by looking at the box art you know you are far wrong.

If what you said is true, where was Cream in Adventure 2?

Cream didn't even exist as a character until Advance 2 which was released a year later.

[SlickEvan]

I'm posting after Indigo Rush so I haven't seen updates. But he's been told at this point. Anymore refusal from him and I think this will be about done on all you guys' hard work. Not trying to tell you guys to stop but I seriously think this is going to go on for the next year or until the stream runs dry with certain 'party'.

As for 06' I wish that at the very least the gameplay was successful. So the adventure formula could get more chance to shine. And the friends argument wouldn't always be traced to this thing. This game really killed SEGA's vibe and they caught stride with unleashed but part of me will always be broken that there will never be that next Adventure game. That next upgrade to collect in the flashy green light thing. That next Eggman being super effective at being menacing. But I guess... Wishes... are eternal : P hopefully Melpontro can make the gameplay decent on a tech standpoint.

EDIT: him is referring to DBZHedgy.

[DBZHedgy]

Sonic Advance 3? Prove that.

Thought that was Sonic Advance 2. (Actually watching the video would've helped)

Terrible Terrible Mistake on my part.

 

A re-evaluation is in order than. This would then mean that Knuckles does leave behind the Master Emerald for no apparent reason wherever he goes. But why? I mean in Sonic Battle he's busy guarding the Master Emerald so why not here? And to top that off, this is only one instance. Who's to say that after this he doesn't carry because of what Happens when he leaves it?

 

You haven't played any Sonic games? Have you?

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. You have video evidence from the game you're saying doesn't do something, blatantly showing that it saying it does.

You're also saying that Knuckles carries around the Master Emerald. When there are several games which are set after SA 2 (one of which is set 20 years after SA2) which prove both through dialogue and through visual confirmation that he doesn't. Several of them confirm that the master emerald both visually and through dialogue is on the Angel Island and it's flying.

Your saying Sonic Advance 3 takes place before SA 2, when it doesn't... if you'd played this game or even done so much as looked at the boxart you'd know this.

All this basic stuff is completely wrong, why would anyone believe your stance on Sonic 06? When basic stuff you've commented on which is well established and easily evidence is completely false?

So, because I didn't play Sonic Advance 3 (which I have) that immediately means that I've never touched a single Sonic game?

 

Actually, Knuckles carrying the Emerald was an assumption. 

 

The Box art does not relay the information that Sonic Advance 3 takes place after Sonic Adventure 2. 

 

That's it? 2 things? You make it seem like everything I've been saying this whole time has been nothing but lies.

 

 

Negative, amigo. The game features Gemerl, that black Gizoid-looking robot that is actually a rebuilt and enhanced version of Emerl, a character that shows up in Sonic Battle, which is a game that not only has Shadow as an important character, but also makes references to his backstory from Sonic Adventure 2 through Gerald Robotnik's journal entries. 

I understand that I was wrong about it taking place after Adventure 2, but isn't Gemerl an entirely different robot? Emerl destroyed himself to make sure that the space colony wouldn't crash into the earth.

 

 

No it doesn't.

No. I haven't seen even a fraction as many egregious errors from the entire rest of the topic as I have from you.

You haven't given one.

Yes, I did.

Considering it was probably mostly completed at the time, yeah.

Who cares? The exact effects of a continent falling into the ocean at a particular speed are completely irrelevant to the story. And even if you were taking a 10 minute falltime as canon (which is pretty ridiculous in itself), you couldn't even begin to do the math associated with that.

You made that up and it doesn't even make any sense. G-merl/Gemerl/whatever was created by Eggman based on Emerl, who was from Sonic Battle, a game which includes Shadow, who could not possibly be up and about before SA2.

Actually I've given Several when discussing this with Rusty Spy earlier on in the Topic.

 

Exactly, you just said that Mephiles doesn't lose because of a flaw. As such I told you of an instance in which he does.

 

I dunno. I mean, yea, they ported the engine over, but they had to program the lock-on feature, plus the rest of the game. 

 

At this point, the Angel Island falling thing is a bit unnecessary since it has been established very clearly that Knuckles does leave the Master Emerald there unattended, but I'm quite sure that a feather would have less impact on a puddle of water than a rock.

 

Well, I didn't make it up, but I see your point.

[Komodin]

I understand that I was wrong about it taking place after Adventure 2, but isn't Gemerl an entirely different robot?

 

No, actually. Unless I'm mistaken, the Japanese manual pretty much blatantly states that Gemerl is a rebuilt Emerl. If not, the fact that, as you go along the game, he gains more and more moves from Sonic and co., coupled with him being able to use all seven Chaos Emeralds, which none of the E-120 Phis could, could still lend credence to that.

 

Emerl destroyed himself to make sure that the space colony wouldn't crash into the earth.

 

No, you're confusing him with Shadow. Emerl got destroyed as a result of the high-speed battle (literally so -- despite the Gameplay and Story Segregation at play in the battle itself, the whole thing had to have taken just 30 seconds in-story) with Sonic after he went full Gizoid.

[Chaos Incarnate]

The whole point of Gemerl's existence is that he's a reconstruction of Emerl's parts. There's no way to wrap your head around and argue with it, Sonic Battle has to have happened first, and Shadow showing up obviously means it has to take place after Shadow's spinoff. Advance 3 is much farther down the line from Adventure 2, bub.

[DBZHedgy]

I'm not justifying the inconsistencies of the other games.

 

• I don't why Tails fights Knuckles in his story. They just make the player do that for some reason.
• Sonic saves the day in Sonic Advance when he beat Eggman on the moon.  The other characters can beat the Egg X purely for gameplay reasons.
• I don't know.  They just didn't put that in for the Dark story for some reason.
• I don't know. Because they just don't see each other until they meet up again on the Egg Fleet.

Again, not denying there are inconsistencies in other games (This series isn't exactly known for it's precise storytelling)

The big difference is that the inconsistencies for those games don't hurt entire narrative of their receptive plots.  Sonic 06's inconsistencies, however, do.   This is why the Adventure stories are considered good (or at least passable) while 06's is considered bad (or at worst terrible).

These are the same instances though.

If Sonic was the one who had the chaos emeralds and the one who fought knuckles, then why is it that Tails is the one fighting knuckles and losing the two chaos emeralds? It's from Tails' perspective, that's why.

And why is it that the Dark side didn't know that Sonic, Tails and Amy made it off of the island alive? Because It was their perspective. They didn't know that they didn't escape therefore the cutscene relays that. In 06's case, Shadow doesn't know that Silver didn't leave the chaos emerald and the cutscene relays just that.

 

If what you said is true, where was Cream in Adventure 2?

Cream didn't even exist as a character until Advance 2 which was released a year later.

Cream was the very reason I thought that game took place before Sonic Adventure 2. 

Cream is first introduced in Sonic Advance 2. She then appears as a cameo in Sonic adventure, the prequel to Sonic Adventure 2. 

[DaBatGuy]

I understand that I was wrong about it taking place after Adventure 2, but isn't Gemerl an entirely different robot? Emerl destroyed himself to make sure that the space colony wouldn't crash into the earth.

G-merl is stated to be made from the remains of Emerl in the manual. A neat in-game nod to this is the SAdv3 Extra boss theme: NonAgression being a remix of Emerl's stage theme in Sonic Battle: Collosseum.

 

Cream was the very reason I thought that game took place before Sonic Adventure 2.

Cream is first introduced in Sonic Advance 2. She then appears as a cameo in Sonic adventure, the prequel to Sonic Adventure 2.

Cream was never in the original Dreamcast release of Sonic Adventure, she was added to the Gamecube port which was released after Advance 2.

[The Tenth Doctor]

She was only added into Adventure DX as an easter egg. By that extension, you can say Chris Thorndyke is a real Sonic character as he's on a billboard. Will we really entertain that thought?

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Cream was the very reason I thought that game took place before Sonic Adventure 2.

Cream is first introduced in Sonic Advance 2. She then appears as a cameo in Sonic adventure, the prequel to Sonic Adventure 2.

....dude.

She appeared as a cameo in Adventure DX, which was a re-release of Adventure 1 that came out after Adventure 2.

She never appeared in the original Adventure 1 that came out for DC.

[SlickEvan]

Cream cameo only in SADX bro. I'm starting to see your whole argument fall on deaf ears at this point. It really is starting to seem you don't know your Sonic. I'll admit while I love Sonic I don't dig in as deep as some others but now your making mistakes that'd I wouldn't see many fans make. Your case is starting to crumble and we're barely speaking of 06'...

[DBZHedgy]

No, actually. Unless I'm mistaken, the Japanese manual pretty much blatantly states that Gemerl is a rebuilt Emerl. If not, the fact that, as you go along the game, he gains more and more moves from Sonic and co., coupled with him being able to use all seven Chaos Emeralds, which none of the E-120 Phis could, could still lend credence to that.

 

No, you're confusing him with Shadow. Emerl got destroyed as a result of the high-speed battle (literally so -- despite the Gameplay and Story Segregation at play in the battle itself, the whole thing had to have taken just 30 seconds in-story) with Sonic after he went full Gizoid.

Yeesh, I better go read those Japanese Manuals then...

 

Yes yes, Sonic goes in to take out Emerl after he sets the crash course for the earth.

This isn't on topic anymore so I'll keep it short. Here is evidence of him "disappearing". That's why I thought Gemerl was an entirely different entity.

[SlickEvan]

Hnng. Come on man.... you just dodged saying you're wrong. Notice the word "thought". You know what, I'll take that as a "I was wrong but this is what I thought, sorry"

Also I think 06 should be taken out of people's head's when making arguments against other games. It definitely should be looked at like "we made a mistake lets never do this again" but people refer back to it so much it almost gets irritating. I think even I have used it to try an promote Boom. I regret it because seeing how often people use it as a "oh no! Look out for multiple characters, remember this game" or sometimes as 'social cheats codes' as a certain Sonic Dissected said : P

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The whole point of Gemerl's existence is that he's a reconstruction of Emerl's parts. There's no way to wrap your head around and argue with it, Sonic Battle has to have happened first, and Shadow showing up obviously means it has to take place after Shadow's spinoff. Advance 3 is much farther down the line from Adventure 2, bub.

Not to mention the blatant fact that it was made years after Adventure 2 to begin with. 

[DBZHedgy]

Cream was never in the original Dreamcast release of Sonic Adventure, she was added to the Gamecube port which was released after Advance 2.

I know, it was a stretch, but the games don't necessarily make it clear when Sonic Advance 2 comes into play.

And since many of the badniks that appear in Sonic Adventure appear in Sonic Advance 2 coupled with the fact that Sonic Advance 2 was set to be released the same year as Sonic Adventure DX, it made me consider the fact that she came into play before Sonic Adventure 2.

 

Basically this.

Sonic Adventure -> Sonic Advance 2 -> Sonic Adventure 2 -> Sonic Battle -> Sonic Advance 3

 

Since Shadow appears in Adventure 2 and He appears in Battle alongside cream, yet he isn't present (or any evidence of adventure 2 for that matter) in Advance 2, that lead me to believe the aforementioned.

 

 

She was only added into Adventure DX as an easter egg. By that extension, you can say Chris Thorndyke is a real Sonic character as he's on a billboard. Will we really entertain that thought?

That's just a picture. There is no physical representation of Chris in the game. 

 

 

Cream cameo only in SADX bro. I'm starting to see your whole argument fall on deaf ears at this point. It really is starting to seem you don't know your Sonic. I'll admit while I love Sonic I don't dig in as deep as some others but now your making mistakes that'd I wouldn't see many fans make. Your case is starting to crumble and we're barely speaking of 06'...

Oh, ok, I mistake Sonic Advance 3 for Sonic advance 2 and I don't know my Sonic?

I confuse Cream's first appearence in relation to the Adventure games and I don't know my sonic?

 

What about everything else from the past 30 or so pages? All of those pages in which I generally discuss, y'know, Sonic.

Not to mention the blatant fact that it was made years after Adventure 2 to begin with. 

Since your so smart, when does Sonic Advance 2 take place?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Advance 2 takes place before Sonic Battle and Sonic Heroes,  but after Advance 1 and Adventure 2. Notified thanks to Cream's debut in Advance 2 of course! ^-^

[Chaos Incarnate]

Not to mention the blatant fact that it was made years after Adventure 2 to begin with. 

I get where you're coming from, as that's the case with most Sonic games, but it isn't always that simple. Remember, Battle can't simply take place after Heroes, due to Shadow being more familiar with Professor Gerald's inventions and not being concerned with the Shadow android sub plot. It was more of a continuity fuck up around the time Battle came off, but Shadow's spin off at least makes it a bit more clear regarding its placement. 

 

Also, this more of a general statement, but I truly believe you could place most of the Sonic Advance series, with the exception of Sonic Advance 3, before Adventure with little to no problems. I don't see much of an issue as to whether or not Cream's cameo in DX is canon, so you could easily play the advocate in that regard and go with Advance 1 and 2 being post Sonic 3 & K.