Official Sonic 2006 topic

[DBZHedgy]

Advance 2 takes place before Sonic Battle and Sonic Heroes,  but after Advance 1 and Adventure 2. Notified thanks to Cream's debut in Advance 2 of course! ^-^

I see where your coming from but there aren't any clear cut facts that Advance 2 takes place before or after adventure 2. Are there?

[Indigo Rush]

That is besides the issue entirely, though, even if we ignore the signs pointing to the Advance games taking place after the Adventure duo. The fact of the matter is that Sonic Advance 3 clearly occurs after Adventure 2, and that was the clincher that was necessary to refute the false proposition that Angel Island remained attached to the Mystic Ruins on the surface as well as Knuckles taking the Master Emerald wherever he went. The argument was faulty to begin with, and the fact that it needed several people to argue against it is something to consider when looking at how far this topic has gone off the mark.

 

With each argument brought up, another issue is brought to light to pass over the original argument that was being discussed. In this case, we've wound up discussing the chronological order of these games from trying to determine if Knuckles carries his Master Emerald around with him from the status of Angel Island's location and from that, who knows what else. This is called "dodging the question," and it's happened far too many times with this one debater than I care to tolerate. It's a massive issue and fallacy when discussing anything, and either way it's a problem that needs to be addressed. 

 

The problem beyond that is that the aforementioned argument was defended by a flippant and careless assumption that wasn't given much thought or research. It's based off of a presupposition that they were right, and more than anything that is what lies at the heart of the issue. Confirmation before investigation. The assumption of being correct without considering to research the Internet for it's wealth of information on a forum where the necessity and pressure to type and respond immediately is circumvented is downright asinine. There is truly little excuse for it, and on a forum where we've discussed Sonic the Hedgehog as a behemoth of an entity for years and years, you'd darn well better get your facts straight before you march in with your assumptions.

[Tara]

I get where you're coming from, as that's the case with most Sonic games, but it isn't always that simple. Remember, Battle can't simply take place after Heroes, due to Shadow being more familiar with Professor Gerald's inventions and not being concerned with the Shadow android sub plot. It was more of a continuity fuck up around the time Battle came off, but Shadow's spin off at least makes it a bit more clear regarding its placement. 

 

Also, this more of a general statement, but I truly believe you could place most of the Sonic Advance series, with the exception of Sonic Advance 3, before Adventure with little to no problems. I don't see much of an issue as to whether or not Cream's cameo in DX is canon, so you could easily play the advocate in that regard and go with Advance 1 and 2 being post Sonic 3 & K.

I think that while you can place Advance 1 and 2 pretty much anywhere you want in the story (if you want to count Cream's cameo as a reinterpretation of the canon), that doesn't necessarily mean it is.

 

I've always seen the Advance games as their own little entities, which have no direct impact on the main series.  Not to say they don't have canon elements, but aside from Advance 3 which calls back to Battle, none of the games really connect to each other and none of the main series games acknowledge their existence.  They're totally ineffectual aside from being fun little games that introduce one character who is rarely ever given proper screentime to begin with.

[Chaos Incarnate]

I think that while you can place Advance 1 and 2 pretty much anywhere you want in the story (if you want to count Cream's cameo as a reinterpretation of the canon), that doesn't necessarily mean it is.

 

I've always seen the Advance games as their own little entities, which have no direct impact on the main series.  Not to say they don't have canon elements, but aside from Advance 3 which calls back to Battle, none of the games really connect to each other and none of the main series games acknowledge their existence.  They're totally ineffectual aside from being fun little games that introduce one character who is rarely ever given proper screentime to begin with.

Oh, I don't deny that the Advance games can go after Adventure. Aside from Cream's introduction, Advance 1 and 2 are some of the most superfluous entries in the series story wise. Nothing of value would really be lost or gained if Advance 1 were considered canon anyway. Still, I just felt like playing the Advocate for more than once. Those two titles can honestly go anywhere after the Classic series and before Heroes, so like we've all been saying, there isn't a concrete answer as to where they fit. And honestly, there doesn't need to be.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I see where your coming from but there aren't any clear cut facts that Advance 2 takes place before or after adventure 2. Are there?

Aside from one or two live Q & A 's.

As for you, I suggest you get your facts straight. You can't even seem to recall the events of the very cutscenes you yourself present.

I'm beginning to question just how much you actually know about this video-gaming franchise.

Oh, and it also seems you've given up on defending 06 since we're talking about completely different games now.

 

Posts merged.  Please use the edit button next time.  ~Tara

[DBZHedgy]

Aside from one or two live Q & A 's.

As for you, I suggest you get your facts straight. You can't even seem to recall the events of the very cutscenes you yourself present.

I'm beginning to question just how much you actually know about this video-gaming franchise.

Oh, and it also seems you've given up on defending 06 since we're talking about completely different games now.

And where exactly are those two live Q & A's?

 

I drew attention towards Angel Island Falling because it contradicted the it's falling in Sonic Adventure. And besides that, when else have I not recalled the events of the very cutscenes I myself presented? I didn't really. Everybody makes mistakes.

 

I know quite a bit about this gaming franchise thank you very much, and considering one of the two things that I was inconsequentially wrong about was one topic that isn't even properly confirmed in the Series Canon.

 

And no, I haven't given up on discussing 06. Everyone else just didn't answer to the responses that I had given them.

 

Edit: I just thought of something else... about battle that was a bit... odd...

Y'know how Shadow fell from the earth and supposedly died in Adventure 2? Or at least lost his memory circa Sonic Heroes? Why isn't he even reported to be injured, or why isn't his memory gone? And even if he is ok, then why is it that Heroes has Shadow in a cloning pod with his memories lost? o_0

 I just thought of something else... about battle that was a bit... odd...

Y'know how Shadow fell from the earth and supposedly died in Adventure 2? Or at least lost his memory circa Sonic Heroes? Why isn't he even reported to be injured, or why isn't his memory gone? And even if he is ok, then why is it that Heroes has Shadow in a cloning pod with his memories lost? o_0

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The live Q and A 's can't be cut into sections and I don't exactly recall which one it was so feel free to run on that opinionated assumption of your's DBZ. 

 

Regardless, the reason you're getting less of a response is partly because you constantly overstep with assumptions on lore that you show a vast lack of knowledge over.

 

And you still apparently haven't given this old post a proper read, so I'll re-provide it:

 

PFFFT. XD.

Okay, first of all, you just re-iterated my point about Adventure 1, so what's your point there?

Secondly, you claim to have played these games but state that Dr. Ivo "I am the greatest scientific genius in the world!" Eggman Robotnik, wasn't all that egotistical and cocky preceding Colors!? You wound me.

Others have already stated many facts debunking that, but I feel the need to point you towards Unleashed, the very game before Colors! As his plans were actually going accordingly for the most part, with him also finally managing to construct Eggmanland, the Doctor was hands-down arrogant and cocky! He even uses this as an excuse for leaving Sonic, plenty an opening and the means to shut down his agenda, claiming that he himself, "loves a challenge" and would hate to win so easily.

And as for his mother-lode ego, play through Eggmanland, a dominion he explicitly names after himself, and you'll find a text-book case of egotism inhabiting that level!
Okay, let's do a direct comparison:


Erazor Djinn does NOT have an innate ability to track down the Seven World Rings on his own so he manipulates the situation into Sonic finding them for him with use of an ability called the Flame of Judgement. GOOD.

The Flame of Judgment serves also as a ticking clock which is set to kill Sonic. Thus, proper motivation for Sonic getting the rings comes into place. Great.

This gets double bonus points because the life of the collector must be sacrificed to trigger Erazor's end goal. So he's set to get the Seven Rings along with the required sacrifice. Awesome for him.

Furthermore, this also presents a reason for why exactly Erazor doesn't hunt for and collect the World Rings himself. Simply put, he'd be the sacrifice and the plan would do himself no good in the end. Smart thinking there Erazor.

Erazor has placed Sonic into an apparent Lose-Lose situation. He doesn't deliver the rings, the Arrow kills him; he brings the rings as ordered and thus his dead body becomes the silver platter needed to serve the meal. So basically Erazor just got his plan the Two Birds With One Stone Special. Brilliant.

What we get is Erazor Djinn, a Sonic villain who legitimately works with his abilities, sports consistency in their use (thank you writers), and employs such always to his advantage which is actually clear as day, and by no means vague. He's given Sonic's foreboding death a Xanatos Gambit ticket thanks to the Flame of Judgment and such. His plan would have succeeded either way if it weren't for an unexpected, yet non-contrived "Self-Sacrifice" Shield maneuver that Shahra managed to pull off. OUTSTANDING! Amazing execution.

Say what you will about Erazor being a "generic" villain. But he still gets major rep as a Sonic villain of all things for how incredibly well-executed and legit his role turned out to be.


Now onto Mephiles.......oh dear god, Mephiles!
Mephiles is shown to have unlimited teleporting abilities, can warp to whatever time/date he pleases, and can apparently just summon all seven chaos emeralds at his beck and call, and as Solaris he can do whatever the fuck he wants to do with them.


What does he do? He enacts a James Bond villain-type of gambit plan to have Silver kill Sonic which fails miserably, and later comes back to bite him as Solaris due to Silver having wised up through his time-traveling ventures and helping ignite a plan to demolish Solaris. BAD villain!

He then proceeds to attempt pulling a Black Doom, and a Shadow the Hedgehog Evil Ending with Shadow, only to end up being a mere figure used to boost Shadow's character development, get pummeled by (Egg)man-made awesomeness E-123 Omega, and receive humiliating comeuppance tenfold at the end of Shadow's story, curtsey of Shadow and Team Dark. How.... PITIFUL of that crystalized re-color.

The means to obtaining Iblis for the big Polymerization (DAN GREEN!!!!!) lie in just warping to Iblis at date by his will, killing Elise, or making her cry. Remember, 06's story fails to issue rules that limit any of these procedures. SO as far we know any of them would hands down, get Mephiles his fusion buddy, Iblis. So, does he attempt the first two methods or even give a reason why he flat out neglects them? Hell no! He goes for Choice Number 3! Even when Iblis is fucking right next to him at Flame Core and within the same vicinity as him in Crisis City. Mephiles! You MORON!!

So Mephiles wants to make Elise, a teenage Princess who'll weep over so much as a blue Hedgehog she's only known for less than 48 hours, cry. Does he chop up onions, torture her or just warp Silver straight to the time when she's emotionally attached to Sonic and place him in the perfect postion to swiftly off Sonic. No....fucking NO!!!!! He operates in a maneuver that blows up in his face and leaves numerous opportunities for his plan to get sabotaged in the butt, which it does. FAILURE.

Mephiles hunts for the Emeralds, but is shown fully capable of bring them by the magic of villain sue-ness. Explain Mephiles! EXPLAIN yourself for once in your goddamn existence!

And finally, as Solaris he chooses to just fling the chaos emeralds into fully accessible realms that the heroes brave and tables are unimaginably turned. Bonus stupidity points for the fact that thanks to Mephiles, Silver gained the knowledge that sparked his epiphany igniting the procedure of Solaris' undoing. Way to fuck your own plan and fix it up for the heroes Mephiles. AWFUL.

Now do you see the difference?

 

Now, let's try again, shall we? And without trying to veer off from 06 this time.

[SlickEvan]

What the what? We go from Angel Island, to where the Advance games fit in? How at all does this cross reference back into 06's discussion at hand? Character viewpoints? That's where 06 left off if I'm correct and you were using other games to scape outta the Silver / Shadow screw up, saying that when other games did it INTENTIONALLY that somehow gave 06's UNINTENTIONAL "Character Viewpoint" justification. So how does this step anywhere into Advances territory. Oh wait- you keep dodging with "evidence" to prove your "points".

Which probably woulda been better if you didn't because now people are starting to doubt your knowledge of Sonic lore. Because it's starting to look iffy. You present this "evidence" with either completely misguided info or with completely skewed changing what it means to fit your argument. What does AI being connected to MR in SA1 have to do with 06? I'll catch up on the past pages to see where this derailed, but sheesh.

I probably came off as being mean but as I said it seems whatever crumbs of case you have left should be put towards 06 and not bringing up other games in which you seem to lack knowledge of. Dangit I did it again I'm truly sorry. But I just couldn't help it.

Also Shadow is injured at the beginning of his 'Episode' in battle. He seemed strained or at the very least he had a lack of energy. Rouge even says something about it and he passes out after a battle if I'm correct and Rouge has to drag him to Club Rouge where she says something about his lack of power/strength/energy/ him being hurt. That is iirc : P

[FireBird75]

These are the same instances though.

If Sonic was the one who had the chaos emeralds and the one who fought knuckles, then why is it that Tails is the one fighting knuckles and losing the two chaos emeralds? It's from Tails' perspective, that's why.

And why is it that the Dark side didn't know that Sonic, Tails and Amy made it off of the island alive? Because It was their perspective. They didn't know that they didn't escape therefore the cutscene relays that. In 06's case, Shadow doesn't know that Silver didn't leave the chaos emerald and the cutscene relays just that.

 

You're making an assumptions about what the cutscenes are meant to portray.  I've already explained why even from a different character's perspective, the differences in cutscenes don't work.  I'm not repeating myself.

[DBZHedgy]

What the what? We go from Angel Island, to where the Advance games fit in? How at all does this cross reference back into 06's discussion at hand? Character viewpoints? That's where 06 left off if I'm correct and you were using other games to scape outta the Silver / Shadow screw up, saying that when other games did it INTENTIONALLY that somehow gave 06's UNINTENTIONAL "Character Viewpoint" justification. So how does this step anywhere into Advances territory. Oh wait- you keep dodging with "evidence" to prove your "points".

Which probably woulda been better if you didn't because now people are starting to doubt your knowledge of Sonic lore. Because it's starting to look iffy. You present this "evidence" with either completely misguided info or with completely skewed changing what it means to fit your argument. What does AI being connected to MR in SA1 have to do with 06? I'll catch up on the past pages to see where this derailed, but sheesh.

I probably came off as being mean but as I said it seems whatever crumbs of case you have left should be put towards 06 and not bringing up other games in which you seem to lack knowledge of. Dangit I did it again I'm truly sorry. But I just couldn't help it.

Also Shadow is injured at the beginning of his 'Episode' in battle. He seemed strained or at the very least he had a lack of energy. Rouge even says something about it and he passes out after a battle if I'm correct and Rouge has to drag him to Club Rouge where she says something about his lack of power/strength/energy/ him being hurt. That is iirc : P

I already told you, I didn't bring that up, neither as a means of defense or to go away from the topic. Soni brought that up. That isn't DODGING anything. I just entertained the thought of it since Knuckles is present in Sonic 06 as well as other games without him guarding the emerald.

 

I dunno... the mystic ruins very much seems like it could've been angel Island. I mean they both have Ice Cap level's and Volcano Levels, it would certainly make sense of why the Master Emerald shrine is the only thing on angel island. That or as soon as you go up that Air chute you just fly through some hole leading to angel island... it's pretty confusing. 

 

So... what your saying is... you want me to go out and make several different topics all concerning their own specific game without mentioning any other game in their discussion? 

 

Neither of us can say whether or not Silver taking the Chaos Emerald was intentional. It would make sense that it is intentional though since this game is practically Sonic Adventure 3 and the perception thing is shared with the other adventure games.

 

So... why is it that His memory is completely erased in Heroes, yet it's intact in battle?

 

 

The live Q and A 's can't be cut into sections and I don't exactly recall which one it was so feel free to run on that opinionated assumption of your's DBZ. 

 

Regardless, the reason you're getting less of a response is partly because you constantly overstep with assumptions on lore that you show a vast lack of knowledge over.

 

And you still apparently haven't given this old post a proper read, so I'll re-provide it:

 

 

Now, let's try again, shall we? And without trying to veer off from 06 this time.

My response to you had nothing to do with anything else except Erazor and Mephiles.

 

Either way, sure, I'll give another go.

And once again, I DID NOT veer the conversation. This whole thing started when Soni brought up why Knuckles isn't on Angel Island in Sonic 06(Or many other games for that matter)

 

 

Jovahexeon the Slipstream, on 19 Mar 2014 - 5:38 PM, said:

PFFFT. XD.

Okay, first of all, you just re-iterated my point about Adventure 1, so what's your point there?

Secondly, you claim to have played these games but state that Dr. Ivo "I am the greatest scientific genius in the world!" Eggman Robotnik, wasn't all that egotistical and cocky preceding Colors!? You wound me.

Others have already stated many facts debunking that, but I feel the need to point you towards Unleashed, the very game before Colors! As his plans were actually going accordingly for the most part, with him also finally managing to construct Eggmanland, the Doctor was hands-down arrogant and cocky! He even uses this as an excuse for leaving Sonic, plenty an opening and the means to shut down his agenda, claiming that he himself, "loves a challenge" and would hate to win so easily.

And as for his mother-lode ego, play through Eggmanland, a dominion he explicitly names after himself, and you'll find a text-book case of egotism inhabiting that level!

Okay, let's do a direct comparison:

Erazor Djinn does NOT have an innate ability to track down the Seven World Rings on his own so he manipulates the situation into Sonic finding them for him with use of an ability called the Flame of Judgement. GOOD.

The Flame of Judgment serves also as a ticking clock which is set to kill Sonic. Thus, proper motivation for Sonic getting the rings comes into place. Great.

This gets double bonus points because the life of the collector must be sacrificed to trigger Erazor's end goal. So he's set to get the Seven Rings along with the required sacrifice. Awesome for him.

Furthermore, this also presents a reason for why exactly Erazor doesn't hunt for and collect the World Rings himself. Simply put, he'd be the sacrifice and the plan would do himself no good in the end. Smart thinking there Erazor.

Erazor has placed Sonic into an apparent Lose-Lose situation. He doesn't deliver the rings, the Arrow kills him; he brings the rings as ordered and thus his dead body becomes the silver platter needed to serve the meal. So basically Erazor just got his plan the Two Birds With One Stone Special. Brilliant.

What we get is Erazor Djinn, a Sonic villain who legitimately works with his abilities, sports consistency in their use (thank you writers), and employs such always to his advantage which is actually clear as day, and by no means vague. He's given Sonic's foreboding death a Xanatos Gambit ticket thanks to the Flame of Judgment and such. His plan would have succeeded either way if it weren't for an unexpected, yet non-contrived "Self-Sacrifice" Shield maneuver that Shahra managed to pull off. OUTSTANDING! Amazing execution.

Say what you will about Erazor being a "generic" villain. But he still gets major rep as a Sonic villain of all things for how incredibly well-executed and legit his role turned out to be.

Now onto Mephiles.......oh dear god, Mephiles!

Mephiles is shown to have unlimited teleporting abilities, can warp to whatever time/date he pleases, and can apparently just summon all seven chaos emeralds at his beck and call, and as Solaris he can do whatever the fuck he wants to do with them.

What does he do? He enacts a James Bond villain-type of gambit plan to have Silver kill Sonic which fails miserably, and later comes back to bite him as Solaris due to Silver having wised up through his time-traveling ventures and helping ignite a plan to demolish Solaris. BAD villain!

He then proceeds to attempt pulling a Black Doom, and a Shadow the Hedgehog Evil Ending with Shadow, only to end up being a mere figure used to boost Shadow's character development, get pummeled by (Egg)man-made awesomeness E-123 Omega, and receive humiliating comeuppance tenfold at the end of Shadow's story, curtsey of Shadow and Team Dark. How.... PITIFUL of that crystalized re-color.

The means to obtaining Iblis for the big Polymerization (DAN GREEN!!!!!) lie in just warping to Iblis at date by his will, killing Elise, or making her cry. Remember, 06's story fails to issue rules that limit any of these procedures. SO as far we know any of them would hands down, get Mephiles his fusion buddy, Iblis. So, does he attempt the first two methods or even give a reason why he flat out neglects them? Hell no! He goes for Choice Number 3! Even when Iblis is fucking right next to him at Flame Core and within the same vicinity as him in Crisis City. Mephiles! You MORON!!

So Mephiles wants to make Elise, a teenage Princess who'll weep over so much as a blue Hedgehog she's only known for less than 48 hours, cry. Does he chop up onions, torture her or just warp Silver straight to the time when she's emotionally attached to Sonic and place him in the perfect postion to swiftly off Sonic. No....fucking NO!!!!! He operates in a maneuver that blows up in his face and leaves numerous opportunities for his plan to get sabotaged in the butt, which it does. FAILURE.

Mephiles hunts for the Emeralds, but is shown fully capable of bring them by the magic of villain sue-ness. Explain Mephiles! EXPLAIN yourself for once in your goddamn existence!

And finally, as Solaris he chooses to just fling the chaos emeralds into fully accessible realms that the heroes brave and tables are unimaginably turned. Bonus stupidity points for the fact that thanks to Mephiles, Silver gained the knowledge that sparked his epiphany igniting the procedure of Solaris' undoing. Way to fuck your own plan and fix it up for the heroes Mephiles. AWFUL.

Now do you see the difference?

I'll address this Paragraph by paragraph for your convenience. Line Breaks are going to be used to differentiate between paragraphs.

 

I didn't say that he wasn't egotistical at all, What I said was he wasn't so egotistical and/or arrogant that he would make things easier for Sonic just for a challenge. 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

I feel as if my inital post addressed the "eggman related" parts better, so here you go:

My point was, that although he did have an admiration for himself, he still got the job done. He wasn't so consumed/absorbed by his arrogance that he would go out of the way to make things easier for sonic, just for the sake of a challenge. In point of Fact, Eggman got the upper hand SEVERAL TIMES by means of a cheap Shot in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 AND Sonic 06. Most frequently in Sonic Adventure. 

Just because he was initially egotistical, it doesn't excuse the fact that he's downright stupid in every other game after Unleashed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE9yPDzVwvM&hd=1 These are the Main instances: Eggman steals the chaos emeralds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y91CC6relqI This one cutscenes is the only real cutscenes where he interacts with sonic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQOrwPnp3Ks Anybody remember that Cheap Shot by Eggman to steal back the blue chaos emerald? Also stealing the princess while Sonic is busy? 

Anybody remember these moments?

See? He was never "arrogant" or egotistical enough to make these stupid mistakes before. 

 

Y'know, it's funny that you would mention Eggman in unleashed since he doesn't really act all comical and/or gloaty about anything really... Roger Van der Weide does a better job of explaining it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4FKlu-K_m4&hd=1

To be more specific, 5:50 - 6:50

--------------------

Erazor djinn does not have the ability to track the world rings? I'm not sure when this is actually stated...

 

---------------------

Ok, Sonic has proper Motivation to do what Erazor said, just like Silver. 

 

---------------------

Ok, double bonus points for fixing it so Sonic is set to die either way. Wow, that's really good, except it doesn't actually apply to the person who collected the rings. Just someone in general must be sacrificed, not specifically Sonic as made clear by Erazor saying "I OFFER up your life blue hedgehog". This then means that he isn't guaranteed to die thus having a fault in Erazor's end goal/ plan.

 

---------------------

I can agree with this.

 

---------------------

This would be a good plan if it actually.. y'know... worked. I mean sure if it weren't for Sharha he'd be toast, but the fact that instead of being killed immediately after retrieving the rings leaves another flaw in Erazor's plan. Sonic just whooped his butt before outside of the door with the rings needed to unlock it, so it's very well possible that Sonic could take him out again. There's nothing in the game that says otherwise.

 

---------------------

Legitimately works with his abilities? Nah, he's barely a part of the game. He only shows up near the end where you have to fight him then... fight him again once you've collected the world rings. Ya got me there with consistency though. Mephiles always has an advantage as well. And as I've pointed out several times, Mephiles only end goal is destruction.

 

I'll address the rest later.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So... why is it that His memory is completely erased in Heroes, yet it's intact in battle?

 

Battle would have to have taken place after Shadow the Hedgehog.

[Kiah]

 we're barely speaking of 06'...

 

Exactly. I'm not sure how the topic derailed from being about Sonic '06 to every other Sonic game besides '06, but I am going to ask everyone to get back on topic talking about Sonic '06. It's okay to mention a point or two about another Sonic game, but for several pages of this happening in this topic-that is not okay. If Sonic '06 isn't going to be discussed here, then this thread shouldn't remain open, should it? That wouldn't be fair to the members here that actually want to talk about Sonic '06, so let's please be courteous for them as several members have mentioned that they didn't want to post in this topic due to the recent derailment. 

 

Since your so smart, when does Sonic Advance 2 take place?

 

Keep snarky little jabs like this out of this thread, as we have no tolerance for it here. While you are free to contest an opinion here, or even defend yourself, let's keep the jabs out of it. You are to express yourself, even in disagreement, in a respectful manner. Taking a jab towards someone's intelligence does not qualify as such and does not contribute to discussion whatsoever. 

 

I haven't feeling that this isn't the only instance of this happening, but I'm not willing to look through more pages to find out so as to worsen my headache caused by reading the last 2 pages of this thread. That said, I am going to ask everyone to keep the discussion civil and respectful, as well about Sonic '06, please.

[Indigo Rush]

The generally accepted timeline (post-classic era) is as follows:

 

Sonic Adventure (debut of Modern Sonic era) - Sep 9, 1999

Sonic Shuffle (canonical value is questionable) - Nov 21, 2000

Sonic Adventure 2 (debut of Shadow) - Jun 23, 2001

Sonic Advance (first Nintendo-exclusive Sonic game) - Dec 20, 2001

Sonic Advance 2 (debut of Cream) - Dec 19, 2002

Sonic Heroes (return of Shadow) - Dec 30, 2003

Shadow the Hedgehog (Shadow regains his memory) - Dec 15, 2005

Sonic Battle (debut of Emerl) - Jan 5, 2004

Sonic Advance 3 (debut of G-mel) - Jun 7, 2004

 

 

These games may not be listed chronologically by year of release (most are Japanese, some are American), but they are listed in the most sensible order due to story details. For example. depending on the region, between Battle and Heroes, one may have been released earlier than the other, but Heroes clearly shows Shadow returning for the first time.

 

Now, here's the issue - Sonic Battle debuted a full two years before Shadow the Hedgehog. While chronologically it would make sense to place Battle after Shadow the Hedgehog due to the return of his memory, the fact is that game came out before it. The exact placement is never quite made blatant, but simple analysis can determine that Sonic Battle could reasonably happen after Shadow's game, but not before without causing contradictions. As such, that pushes Sonic Battle to a later point in the series timeline, with Sonic Advance 3 being the most recent game (in terms of story), just before Sonic Rush. 

 

It's not an exact science, but the placement would make sense.

 

 

 

But as Kiah just said, this is nowhere near on-topic anymore. 

For once, I'd like to see a single subject stay focused on, without certain members having to draw attention away from the primary issue: Sonic 2006 being filled with problems. I'd like to discuss this issue without having to micro-manage tens of other tangentially related issues.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I'd like to discuss this issue without having to micro-manage tens of other tangentially related issues.

 

Oh come on, Indigo. We both know you're just trying to weasel your way out of the big issues, like telling me how Sonic 06's development was impacted by the method of cooking rations during the Vietnam war.

[redhellc]

 

Ok, double bonus points for fixing it so Sonic is set to die either way. Wow, that's really good, except it doesn't actually apply to the person who collected the rings. Just someone in general must be sacrificed, not specifically Sonic as made clear by Erazor saying "I OFFER up your life blue hedgehog". This then means that he isn't guaranteed to die thus having a fault in Erazor's end goal/ plan.

 

 

Actually just before that Erazor says: " but the life of the collector of the rings shall be offered up in sacrifice as the key for that control..."

 

So yeah it needs to be the collector of the rings that must die.

 

Also while I don't think any of the two are good villains, but have to say I like Erazor more for at least having more interaction with Sonic and a little more personality, while having a decent motive besides destruction for the sake of it.  

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Supposedly the entirety of Hard Mode is Shadow doing missions for GUN, and I'm pretty sure the Commander outright hires him close to the end. Someone here probably knows better, though - suffice to say I'd never do anything that masochistic personally, and most of what I know of it is secondhand.EDIT: Okay, I was completely wrong about the formermost part. But a quick check of GameFAQs reveals he did say this during Expert Mode's Crazy Gadget: Make of that what you will.

Is this from the Shadow the Hedgehog game? OR 06? For clarification.

[StaticMania]

Is this from the Shadow the Hedgehog game? OR 06? For clarification.

The Gun commander doesn't appear in '06...plus '06's hard mode isn't replaying through the story, to make the point slightly clearer.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The Gun commander doesn't appear in '06...plus '06's hard mode isn't replaying through the story, to make the point slightly clearer.

Ah, thanks! It's been ages since I 100%'d Shadow the Hedgehog and I never got into any of the 06 add-ons, DLC, etc, so I wasn't too sure.

 

Though I do recall even a part where Omega speaks up during expert mode on the Black Comet stage.

[DBZHedgy]

Jovahexeon the Slipstream, on 19 Mar 2014 - 5:38 PM, said:

Now onto Mephiles.......oh dear god, Mephiles!
Mephiles is shown to have unlimited teleporting abilities, can warp to whatever time/date he pleases, and can apparently just summon all seven chaos emeralds at his beck and call, and as Solaris he can do whatever the fuck he wants to do with them.


What does he do? He enacts a James Bond villain-type of gambit plan to have Silver kill Sonic which fails miserably, and later comes back to bite him as Solaris due to Silver having wised up through his time-traveling ventures and helping ignite a plan to demolish Solaris. BAD villain!

He then proceeds to attempt pulling a Black Doom, and a Shadow the Hedgehog Evil Ending with Shadow, only to end up being a mere figure used to boost Shadow's character development, get pummeled by (Egg)man-made awesomeness E-123 Omega, and receive humiliating comeuppance tenfold at the end of Shadow's story, curtsey of Shadow and Team Dark. How.... PITIFUL of that crystalized re-color.

The means to obtaining Iblis for the big Polymerization (DAN GREEN!!!!!) lie in just warping to Iblis at date by his will, killing Elise, or making her cry. Remember, 06's story fails to issue rules that limit any of these procedures. SO as far we know any of them would hands down, get Mephiles his fusion buddy, Iblis. So, does he attempt the first two methods or even give a reason why he flat out neglects them? Hell no! He goes for Choice Number 3! Even when Iblis is fucking right next to him at Flame Core and within the same vicinity as him in Crisis City. Mephiles! You MORON!!

So Mephiles wants to make Elise, a teenage Princess who'll weep over so much as a blue Hedgehog she's only known for less than 48 hours, cry. Does he chop up onions, torture her or just warp Silver straight to the time when she's emotionally attached to Sonic and place him in the perfect postion to swiftly off Sonic. No....fucking NO!!!!! He operates in a maneuver that blows up in his face and leaves numerous opportunities for his plan to get sabotaged in the butt, which it does. FAILURE.

Mephiles hunts for the Emeralds, but is shown fully capable of bring them by the magic of villain sue-ness. Explain Mephiles! EXPLAIN yourself for once in your goddamn existence!

And finally, as Solaris he chooses to just fling the chaos emeralds into fully accessible realms that the heroes brave and tables are unimaginably turned. Bonus stupidity points for the fact that thanks to Mephiles, Silver gained the knowledge that sparked his epiphany igniting the procedure of Solaris' undoing. Way to fuck your own plan and fix it up for the heroes Mephiles. AWFUL.

Now do you see the difference?

As said earlier, Mephiles has to at least find the chaos emeralds or being in the same location as them to warp them, otherwise he wouldn't have hunted the Yellow one at the end of Shadow's story.

---------------------------

 

That's all fine and dandy. Every villain has a screw up like that.

---------------------------

 

That's a good thing though. I don't recall Erazor boosting Sonic's character development at all. (Did sonic even have character development in Secret Rings?)

Oh, yea. You know who else gets pummeled by (Egg)Man made Awesomeness E-123 Omega? Shadow. The ULTIMATE Life Form.

Doesn't every villain get humiliating comeuppance? What's your point? Also, that Tenfold part is a load because he very much did survive and was still able to go on his happy way to fuse with Iblis. He got beat just as easily as he did with the first fight.

---------------------------

 

So he's stupid because he wants to have a little fun before he ultimately destroys the universe? Seems pretty shallow of you to say that.

The guy has some personality in him, he very much takes enjoyment in making people suffer, so why can't he goof off a bit before it's time to do what he has to do?

----------------------------

 

As said prior (once again), Mephiles has not control of WHERE he teleports people, especially through time. Even if Mephiles did teleport silver in the optimal time Elise was attached to him Silver wouldn't be near Sonic and Elise. (BTW does it matter that he didn't warp Silver in time? Silver still came to kill Sonic in the perfect time when Elise and Him were attached, so what's the big idea?)

And all of those problems that Erazor left in his plot blow up in his face as well. EVERY VILLAIN operates in some way that will eventually cause their downfall.

-----------------------------

 

Yea, he could've been fleshed out more. If they had more time to work on the game, I'm sure there would've been an explain everything cutscene though.

-----------------------------

 

Fully accessible realms? Try realms filled with instant death traps popping out of almost everywhere. Which in turn makes it very difficult to traverse through. Weren't you the one who pointed me to Clement's Review of Sonic 06? Remember his frustration in beating that level? Doesn't seem like a bad plan to me. :/

In any case, that's certainly better than Erazor's response to this. Leaving 3 world rings just sitting there for Sonic to transform with, instead of absorbing those as well. Or taking the Solaris route and flinging them through distorted parts of the universe.

 

Battle would have to have taken place after Shadow the Hedgehog.

There isn't any evidence other than Shadow's memory that display this. There aren't any clear allusions to Shadow the Hedgehog either. 

 

 

 

The generally accepted timeline (post-classic era) is as follows:

 

Sonic Adventure (debut of Modern Sonic era) - Sep 9, 1999

Sonic Shuffle (canonical value is questionable) - Nov 21, 2000

Sonic Adventure 2 (debut of Shadow) - Jun 23, 2001

Sonic Advance (first Nintendo-exclusive Sonic game) - Dec 20, 2001

Sonic Advance 2 (debut of Cream) - Dec 19, 2002

Sonic Heroes (return of Shadow) - Dec 30, 2003

Shadow the Hedgehog (Shadow regains his memory) - Dec 15, 2005

Sonic Battle (debut of Emerl) - Jan 5, 2004

Sonic Advance 3 (debut of G-mel) - Jun 7, 2004

 

 

These games may not be listed chronologically by year of release (most are Japanese, some are American), but they are listed in the most sensible order due to story details. For example. depending on the region, between Battle and Heroes, one may have been released earlier than the other, but Heroes clearly shows Shadow returning for the first time.

 

Now, here's the issue - Sonic Battle debuted a full two years before Shadow the Hedgehog. While chronologically it would make sense to place Battle after Shadow the Hedgehog due to the return of his memory, the fact is that game came out before it. The exact placement is never quite made blatant, but simple analysis can determine that Sonic Battle could reasonably happen after Shadow's game, but not before without causing contradictions. As such, that pushes Sonic Battle to a later point in the series timeline, with Sonic Advance 3 being the most recent game (in terms of story), just before Sonic Rush. 

 

It's not an exact science, but the placement would make sense.

 

 

 

But as Kiah just said, this is nowhere near on-topic anymore. 

For once, I'd like to see a single subject stay focused on, without certain members having to draw attention away from the primary issue: Sonic 2006 being filled with problems. I'd like to discuss this issue without having to micro-manage tens of other tangentially related issues.

 

I can agree with the above timeline (excluding the placement of Sonic Advance due to Cream's Cameo in Adventure DX).

 

Are you actually reading what I'm typing? I've stated at least 3 times that I wasn't the one who took the subject of the matter away from 06.

 

 

Actually just before that Erazor says: " but the life of the collector of the rings shall be offered up in sacrifice as the key for that control..."

 

So yeah it needs to be the collector of the rings that must die.

 

Also while I don't think any of the two are good villains, but have to say I like Erazor more for at least having more interaction with Sonic and a little more personality, while having a decent motive besides destruction for the sake of it.  

So why didn't Sonic die? He was clearly the one grabbing each and every ring instead of sharha. And why did Erazor use the word 'offer' instead of something along the lines of 'looks like your going to die now since you collected the rings' or something like that.

 

What do you mean? Mephiles isn't Sonic's villain for one. And on a different note, Erazor barely interacts with Sonic. He only really interacts with him near the end.

[SlickEvan]

A ) Your signature bro. heh. (Take that how you will)

 

B )When did Shadow get pummeled by Omega, just wondering? Also, if I'm correct Sonic actively absorbed those World Rings. Like it's one of those cases where the villain didn't want it to happen but the hero is able to stop their crap by one sliv-of-a hair. Like "oh crap Frieza's bout to make a wish! -Oh wait Dragon Ran out because old man died, awesome." (And he couldn't understand english, if I'm right) That's what I personally THOUGHT, I could be wrong.

 

Spoiled because of off topic:

 

C ) My opinion on Battle is it happened after Heroes. Like at the end he was recovering very small bits of memory, so unlike the game Shadow the Hedgehog, his "buddies" actually **ING

TOLD HIM HIS PAST and he remembered the rest. But hey, what can you say, Head Cannon is awesome... Right?

[redhellc]

 

So why didn't Sonic die? He was clearly the one grabbing each and every ring instead of sharha. And why did Erazor use the word 'offer' instead of something along the lines of 'looks like your going to die now since you collected the rings' or something like that.

 

What do you mean? Mephiles isn't Sonic's villain for one. And on a different note, Erazor barely interacts with Sonic. He only really interacts with him near the end.

 

 

Ever thought why the transformation didn't went right? If the "ritual" had gone perfect, Erazor shouldn't have transformed into a imperfect beast. Also why does it matter how he said it, he needed to kill sonic anyway.

 

Second if it's in a main Sonic Game it is a Sonic villain. Even IF he only interacted once with Erazor, which he did not, that would already be more than what he did with Mephiles. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

That's all fine and dandy. Every villain has a screw up like that.

No, not even close. A villain may be prone to exceuting an overly complicated plan, but not to the extent of purposefully making it harder for themselves, which Mephiles does by NOT just warping SIlver to a time and position to swiftly kill Sonic and trigger Iblis' release.

[DBZHedgy]

A ) Your signature bro. heh. (Take that how you will)

 

B )When did Shadow get pummeled by Omega, just wondering? Also, if I'm correct Sonic actively absorbed those World Rings. Like it's one of those cases where the villain didn't want it to happen but the hero is able to stop their crap by one sliv-of-a hair. Like "oh crap Frieza's bout to make a wish! -Oh wait Dragon Ran out because old man died, awesome." (And he couldn't understand english, if I'm right) That's what I personally THOUGHT, I could be wrong.

 

Spoiled because of off topic:

 

C ) My opinion on Battle is it happened after Heroes. Like at the end he was recovering very small bits of memory, so unlike the game Shadow the Hedgehog, his "buddies" actually **ING

TOLD HIM HIS PAST and he remembered the rest. But hey, what can you say, Head Cannon is awesome... Right?

Yes, My signature is awesome, I know

 

In the Future. Mephiles tells Shadow that Omega seals him while he's in the future due to the world being plunged into chaos by Iblis

 

Spoiler since Off Topic as well:

I'm glad you said opinion, but it doesn't seem to add up correctly unless you put it after Shadow.

 

 

Ever thought why the transformation didn't went right? If the "ritual" had gone perfect, Erazor shouldn't have transformed into a imperfect beast. Also why does it matter how he said it, he needed to kill sonic anyway.

 

Second if it's in a main Sonic Game it is a Sonic villain. Even IF he only interacted once with Erazor, which he did not, that would already be more than what he did with Mephiles. 

What does that have to do with anything? Nothing in the game tells us that Sonic did anything. He just stands there. How does that Stop Erazor's transformation process?

My point exactly. KILL Sonic. He isn't automatically sacrificed as soon as the rings are collected, therefore leaving a whole in erazor's plan, once again.

 

Sonic had to deal with Eggman. That's his villain, Not Mephiles. The game very much clarifies that since Sonic is only concerned about Elise and Eggman instead of Shadow and Silver.

No, not even close. A villain may be prone to exceuting an overly complicated plan, but not to the extent of purposefully making it harder for themselves, which Mephiles does by NOT just warping SIlver to a time and position to swiftly kill Sonic and trigger Iblis' release.

To better clarify:

Every Villain has at least one moment where they end up screwing things up for themselves. That one moment for Mephiles is taking Silver to that Past. As for the latter of your post:

 

As said prior (once again), Mephiles has no control of WHERE he teleports people, especially through time. Even if Mephiles did teleport silver in the optimal time Elise was attached to him Silver wouldn't be near Sonic and Elise. (BTW does it matter that he didn't warp Silver in time? Silver still came to kill Sonic in the perfect time when Elise and Him were attached, so what's the big idea?)

And all of those problems that Erazor left in his plot blow up in his face as well. EVERY VILLAIN operates in some way that will eventually cause their downfall.

[Indigo Rush]

I can agree with the above timeline (excluding the placement of Sonic Advance due to Cream's Cameo in Adventure DX).

 

This is why no one here is taking you seriously.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I can agree with the above timeline (excluding the placement of Sonic Advance due to Cream's Cameo in Adventure DX).

 

I don't think you quite know what a cameo is.

 

If cameos are to be treated like that, then Metal Gear Twin Snakes completely fucks the entire Mario continuity.

 

If cameos were treated like that, it means that since 1998 Lara Croft has been a zombie, since she's killed in the game Carmageddon 2, and whilst being a zombie she had sex with Duke Nukem in Time To Kill which came out in the same month.

 

It also means that despite suffering from advance aging and fox die poisoning, Solid Snake was still able to travel back in time to 16th Century Italy complete with a cardboard box on an unknown mission.