Official Sonic 2006 topic

[DBZHedgy]

"Meant to be played" is a different story from the actual execution. Don't kid yourself there.

Don't kid myself?

Don't kid yourself.

 

The level plays just how it does in Sonic 06. 

The only 'difference' you pointed out was mere aesthetic differences of fake springs added in and a fan replacing a spring.

Soooo different.

 

As does 06, a fact that everyone here but you appears to recognize.

You've yet to point that out or prove that so how could I? =P

 

If by porting, you mean remade from the ground up like the levels in Brianuuu's Sonic 06 project, then yeah, sure. I've seen 'em "ported".

I assume that fan was really taxing on the people who remade the stage then.

 

Also, omg, you're backtracking so much and grasping at so many straws you're literally tripping over yourself.

You said it was remade from the ground up in the above quote right?

 

But in the below quote...

 

Super Jovahexeon Soniko, on 09 Apr 2015 - 8:11 PM, said:

I'm afraid I can;t allow to weasel out with the "HEAVY changes" excuse since the amount of change does not undo the fact that there still had to be notable changes made. 

 

Contradictions, Contradictions...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Okay, you've lost me yet again. Please do a better job of elucidating how I'm contradicting myself.

 

 

You've yet to point that out or prove that so how could I? =P

 

I have the comfort of knowing  that presently, you're the only one here who actually thinks that to be the case.

 

How far are you willing to kid yourself and repeat this mantra of 06 being the same as Gens, just so you try and convince people of this silly notion? You can believe in it yourself, but if you're trying to change people's minds on the matter, I'm afraid you're still doing a poor job at it. And as you may have realized, I'm a lot more patient with you than the majority of the Stadium. If you haven't even convinced me, well that goes to show something.

 

ANyway, back to talking about 06, while it's level design isn't the worst, it still had quite a few problems. And boy did it stink that Crisis City didn;t even get its own proper hub. Glad to see Brianuuu fixed that as well

[Shaddy Zaphod]

See the Sonic and the Secret Rings analogy. It can also apply to Sonic and the Black Knight.

Have you seen these games' stages ported to Generations yet? 

 

Seem like games 'bout running forward to me. That doesn't make all 3D Sonic's the same just cause you says so.

[DBZHedgy]

Okay, you've lost me yet again. Please do a better job of elucidating how I'm contradicting myself.

 

You were implying that it was futile to exaggerate your claim about the changes to the degree of it being very extreme. You even say that it was merely a notable change instead of a drastic one, and now your calling it a massive overhaul.

 

How far are you willing to kid yourself and repeat this mantra of 06 being the same as Gens, just so you try and convince people of this silly notion? You can believe in it yourself, but if you're trying to change people's minds on the matter, I'm afraid you're still doing a poor job at it. And as you may have realized, I'm a lot more patient with you than the majority of the Stadium. If you haven't even convinced me, well that goes to show something.

Hold on, when exactly did I say that Generations Sonic and 06 Sonic were the same? I said they were similar, and that 06's level design could and does work in Generations.

 

Speaking of which, I love how you're mocking me about repeating a mantra, and kidding myself when you're only counter argument to this was about a solitary fan, and eggman springs. I just know you'll end up ignoring this little bit just like the rest of them too. If you're argument is superior, why do you refuse to acknowledge these statements? 

 

Why would I even try to convince anyone to think this way? You're challenging my thoughts on Sonic 06's Level Design. In fact, It didn't even start as an argument at all, it was a simple statement that you picked up, and responded to.

 

Then there's the fact, that the commentator in the video you and I have posted has went on to say that it plays how it was supposed to be played. So clearly, I'm not the only person in the universe who thinks this.

 

ANyway, back to talking about 06, while it's level design isn't the worst, it still had quite a few problems. And boy did it stink that Crisis City didn;t even get its own proper hub. Glad to see Brianuuu fixed that as well 

I'm not trying to criticize Brianuuu, like at all, but that's literally just Silver's portion of Crisis City. There is little to no difference.

 

Seem like games 'bout running forward to me.

Many of the set pieces that are present in SatSR and SatBK are simply impossible to replicate in Sonic Generations.

 

While 06's level design is only ever altered when parts that aren't meant for Sonic to play are brought up, Melpontro's port of Castle Camelot has been changed significantly, I didn't happen to see Sonic slide down the wall in the Generations port. and the stage from SatSR wasn't even finished, so that hardly counts for anything.

I wouldn't actually call a straight line good level design either for a game like Sonic Generations, especially when considering the Black Knight level design was made for hack and slash gameplay instead of being a high speed platformer, but that's beside the point.

 

That doesn't make all 3D Sonic's the same just cause you says so.

Yeah, I don't ever recall Sonic swinging a sword in any other Sonic game other than Black Knight, especially since that was the game's selling point. So, in other words, even if the level design did work, Black Knight still doesn't play like the rest. Sonic and the Secret Rings as well. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

You were implying that it was futile to exaggerate your claim about the changes to the degree of it being very extreme. You even say that it was merely a notable change instead of a drastic one, and now your calling it a massive overhaul.

[DBZHedgy]

It appears you've misunderstood me again then. Since being remade from the ground up does not automatically make it a "massive overhaul". The fact would remain however that the level was retooled in quite a few sections retooled with Generations Sonic in mind; you have yet to sufficiently deny that.

'Massive Overhaul' is synonymous with the phrase 'being made from the ground up'. How can you deny this?

 

And BTW, I have sufficiently denied the fact that the level was retooled to be like Sonic Generations.

In fact, your counter argument to it was the very same statement that there were Eggman Springs added in, quite uselessly, as well as a fan replacing a spring. How many times has it been since I've stated this? You haven't even considered expanding upon this, and every counter so far has been nothing more than simply stating that there were changes, even though you, for the 5th time, refuse to expand upon this, or even properly explain when, where and how these instances appear. Except for the frequently aforementioned Eggman Springs and Fan.

 

Now as for the parts of your post focusing more so on me, and trying to use your regular tactics of trying distort your opposition's words to your advantage, remember that I'm  here to talk about 06 first in this topic as oppossed to what you think of me, so it's probably fair to inform you beforehand that I can't be bothered to always combat rash claims like

 

 

That isn't an insult. That was literally the only evidence-based argument you made about the level design changing to suit Sonic Generations. 

 

In fact, you're insulting me more than anything.

 

How far are you willing to kid yourself and repeat this mantra of 06 being the same as Gens, just so you try and convince people of this silly notion?

 

You can believe in it yourself, but if you're trying to change people's minds on the matter, I'm afraid you're still doing a poor job at it.

 

If you haven't even convinced me, well that goes to show something.

 

Haven't you been paying attention? 

 

Now, perhaps you can make light of your rationale and perhaps explain your view on this. 

 

your lack of proof also sort of left your argument a mess to understand , let alone agree with.

 

that have already been publicly disproved by my actual actions as opposed to what you claim. There may be some huge contradictions that do deserve proper exposing, but the norm is getting tired.

Replacing the level assets from 06 to their equivalent in Sonic Generations is not changing it to work for Sonic Generations.

 

And of course you would cop out with the "this is getting old" thing again. You always do that when you don't have any evidence to back up your claim. Just like the Shadow thing.

 

Anywho, back to 06 talking,

Okay, first of all, I highly doubt he was seriously conveying the idea that 06 was supposed to play like Generations, like you are.

When did I ever say that?

Please Quote me saying that 06 played like Generations.

I said the level design can work in Generations because their gameplay is similar. Never did I say they were the same.

 

Secondly, you're still ignoring the elephant in the room that the 06 project still is using the levels remade into Generations style: aesthetics, graphics, set pieces, even rearranging some of the mooks' positioning like in place such as Dusty Desert. AMong other things too.

The enemies changing position does not change how the level plays either. If anything, it's just as superfluous as the Eggman Springs. 

 

You're also ignoring the fact that none of this changes change how level plays especially when you consider how it was playing in Sonic Generations. It emulates it to a tee. 

 

Third, the 06 project is clearly using different gameplay from the original 06, as even the commentator points out.

If by different gameplay, you mean a speed increase and a better polished character? 

Yeah, I've said that already, in case you weren't paying attention.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

What Shadow thing? You the one where you grasped at straws trying to use gameplay against lore and the official words of SEGA, for a belief that you yourself, believed in all to try and defend Mephiles? Yeah, that one didn't work either. Again, it didn't make sense, but let's not regurgitate that old argument unless you have some new alleged evidence to try and back that case.

 

If by different gameplay, you mean a speed increase and a better polished character? 

 

[DBZHedgy]

What Shadow thing? You the one where you grasped at straws trying to use gameplay against lore and the official words of SEGA, for a belief that you yourself, believed in all to try and defend Mephiles? Yeah, that one didn't work either. Again, it didn't make sense, but let's not regurgitate that old argument unless you have some new alleged evidence to try and back that case.

"Against lore"

Why didn't you provide the evidence for said lore then. You only used the interview as your backup.

"official words of SEGA"

Which is pretty pointless in the long run, since, again, Blaze.

 

Okay, the bad grammar aside

There really was no need to point that out, especially since that is rather infrequent. We all make mistakes.

 

You the one where you grasped at straws trying to use gameplay against lore...

Like seriously, you can stop trying to act superior to me.

 

you're absolutely the first and only person I've seen who's made such a claim that the levels play the same as 06, "emulated to a tee". I'm curious though as to what your definition of such actually is, seeing as how factually, it being with Generations Sonic playing through differently than his 06 counterpart, including being able to actually handle the terrain with more swiftness, being able to actually transition through segments in the levels, mach speed sections functioning as a Generations style of stage instead of chaotic automated running.

 

And it doesn't take that trained an eye to see that all these changes big, small or subtle all come together to create a new and improved version of 06 and her levels made for Gens Sonic to romp through.

I'll just stop with everything else, and say this, maybe then you'll actually listen.

 

Show me your evidence.

And No, I don't mean pointing out how the set pieces were changed to their completely identical counterparts, or how an object was replaced by another that replicates the same effect 06's stage design did, I mean a real actual change to the level design that actually made playing the stage different when compared to 06 Sonic.

Preferably a video, or a picture, or something concrete, instead of just words.

 

Also, I've already stated that Gens Sonic plays differently when compared to Mach Speed Sonic, so there is no real reason for pointing that out.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

"Against lore"

Why didn't you provide the evidence for said lore then. You only used the interview as your backup.

"official words of SEGA"

Which is pretty pointless in the long run, since, again, Blaze.

I actually did present evidence blowing your case out of the water on that one. However, I can see why you, yourself refuse to believe such, for the sake of arguing in 06's favor.

 

Despite the fact that Blaze in the argument didn't even actually affect the weight of official word, you still couldn't even produce solid evidence that wasn't taken apart by the opposition in debate, contradicting SEGA's word that Blaze was a native of the Sol Dimension.

 

 

 

Show me your evidence.

And No, I don't mean pointing out how the set pieces were changed to their completely identical counterparts, or how an object was replaced by another that replicates the same effect 06's stage design did, I mean a real actual change to the level design that actually made playing the stage different when compared to 06 Sonic.

Preferably a video, or a picture, or something concrete, instead of just words.

Been there, and done that. If you aren't going to actually contest it properly, there's no point in me repeating myself, so a new topic may approach on the horizons for moi.

[DBZHedgy]

I actually did present evidence blowing your case out of the water on that one. However, I can see why you, yourself refuse to believe such, for the sake of arguing in 06's favor.

A belief is nothing compared to evidence. I can't deny something that's right there, so why don't you just quote it?

Oh, I remember, it's because you only showed the interview as your evidence.

 

Despite the fact that Blaze in the argument didn't even actually affect the weight of official word, you still couldn't even produce solid evidence that wasn't taken apart by the opposition in debate, contradicting SEGA's word that Blaze was a native of the Sol Dimension.

Yes... I did. 

Well, there's Sonic Generations with their heavily alluding quotes from Blaze.

Then there's Sonic Colors DS that explicitly state that Silver and Blaze knew each other in one instance.

Then there's her showing up quite randomly in Sonic Generations to something so trivial as a Birthday Party.

If something is canon, you can't have something that's against said canon and have it still be canon.

 

Been there, and done that. If you aren't going to actually contest it properly, there's no point in me repeating myself, so a new topic may approach on the horizons for moi.

No, you really haven't. Like at all.

Unless you think that once again, A Fan, and Eggman Springs changes the level design.

 

Also:

 

Preferably a video, or a picture, or something concrete, instead of just words.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

A belief is nothing compared to evidence. I can't deny something that's right there, so why don't you just quote it?

Because as many others in this thread have stated, you have a knack for twisting words severely. I'd rather not play that game of cat and mouse with you again. That, and I already have done such in fact. Until it's properly contested, my work there is done.

Yes... I did.

A cutscene that suggests that they've fought together before is too flimsy to outright contradict Blaze's Sol Dimension background.

If something is canon, you can't have something that's against said canon and have it still be canon.

Well then, good thing that hasn't been the case, as nothing presented shoots a hole in the Blaze hailing fro the Sol Dimension. Explicit evidence actually confirming she isn't from the ol Dimension is what you lack.

Show me a sufficient rebuttal that doesn't include falsities or misconstrue words again and I'll give it a response.

Failure to do so, means we'll be through with the arguments concerning Blaze and your belief that Gens Sonic is practically identical to 06 Sonic.

[DBZHedgy]

Because as many others in this thread have stated, you have a knack for twisting words severely. I'd rather not play that game of cat and mouse with you again.

Oh wow, you're using my use of 'alleged tactics' to excuse why you haven't provided evidence in the slightest? Not even in you're original counter argument. Yeah... I don't think that's how discussion works.

 

That's like a lawyer refusing to present evidence showing that his client is guilty and/or innocent just because of how another lawyer reacts to said evidence. You don't win a debate like that.

 

A cutscene that suggests that they've fought together before is too flimsy to outright contradict Blaze's Sol Dimension background.

 

Well then, good thing that hasn't been the case, as nothing presented shoots a hole in the Blaze hailing fro the Sol Dimension. Explicit evidence actually confirming she isn't from the ol Dimension is what you lack.

Too flimsy? How is blatant contradiction flimsy?

You can't have Future Blaze, and Sol Blaze at the same time because 

1) The game doesn't sufficiently make a connection between it, and Sonic Rush other than a profile entry

2) No other source has done this job either

and

3) Iizuka found it necessary to come out and say that Blaze in 06 was wrong wrong wrong because of her ties to the Sol Dimension. (Or in other words, she shouldn't have been there in the first place)

 

That means that Future Blaze and Sol Blaze cannot both exist. If the statement was actually concrete there should've been no reference to it at all because it is impossible and non-canon.

[kirby1up]

well since this has been on my mind for some time and this is the sonic 06 topic I figured i'd bring up a crazy what if scenario

 

what if? instead of princess elise  we got sally acorn in the game basically serving the role in the story that princess elise had

assuming that almost nothing else was changed about the game

[DBZHedgy]

I'm pretty sure people would still hate her.

Most people don't hate Elise because she's human, but because of how she developed, and how she acted throughout most of the story.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

well since this has been on my mind for some time and this is the sonic 06 topic I figured i'd bring up a crazy what if scenario

 

what if? instead of princess elise  we got sally acorn in the game basically serving the role in the story that princess elise had

assuming that almost nothing else was changed about the game

[kirby1up]

 yeah figured that would basically be the case plus the sonally vs sonamy fan wars would likely be more chaotic as well.

again it was more or less a crazy what if scenario I had in my head for awhile.

 

though I think the game's story could have been fixed with a lot of stuff changed in it

the thing I honestly don't get is how exactly was this suppose to be a series reboot story anyways

I mean it didn't go into any characters back history any cept for silver and mephiles/iblis

elise didn't look like she got any character development during the game cept

I don't think they had a long boring tale about where the chaos emeralds came from

it assumes you played sonic adventure 2 to figure out who on earth shadow and rouge are sonic heroes for omega

and so on and so on

[Lisbon]

I like the choice of cast for the most part.

 

 

On a personal level, I don't really give a damn about any characters from this series except for Rouge, Knuckles, Sonic, and Blaze. That's not to say I don't dislike the rest, of course, but the only ones I really concern myself with are those four. Actually, I would probably be a bit disappointed if there wasn't a good and varied cast in any videogame, and Sonic games are no exception. So add on a good, strong villain to these characters from 06 and I think it'd make for a great cast if developed properly.

 

Of course, the development offered in that game was complete shit as a result of the broken story it told, which was only marginally worse than the broken and dull gameplay. So much went wrong with this game. I don't even need to reiterate that. I think that the characters in the picture would be an ideal cast for this series, though, and they're mostly from 06.

I think that they could've done much better with this game in general, of course. It's a terrible game, but almost everything except for the Elise/Sonic thing showed a spark of potential to me. Wasted now, granted, but it was there at one point.

 

I think this is where the series started its downfall, personally. What a shame, seeing as I felt there to be potential for a good game lost somewhere in that mess.

[goku262002]

So this is a thing.

(Thank Melpontro for this horror).

[Blacklightning]

I think it's pretty telling that '06 can't even make downhills work properly without boost pads, let alone uphill climbs.

[DBZHedgy]

So this is a thing.

(Thank Melpontro for this horror).

 

The level design in Sa2 doesn't work with 06's engine at all xD

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I think it's pretty telling that '06 can't even make downhills work properly without boost pads, let alone uphill climbs.

Well now, 06's gameplay and design was even more still-born, deformed terrible than I thought.

[Woun]

He's try develop '06 on PC. Looks good!

 

https://youtu.be/zxzPqJ-QamI

[goku262002]

He's try develop '06 on PC. Looks good!

 

Son of a bitch, thats actually very close to STH2006.

And I seriously can't tell if thats a good thing. but bravo on the guy.

[Ripe]

Today I finally got this game and first level played. First impression:

I can't really talk about graphics because I'm accustomed to the level of PS3 exclusives and this was very early in consol lifespan. I think they are ok for the times standards. Although there was some sort of lag. Is it as bad in 360? If isn't, it's quite weird because technically PS3 is superior.

And I think that I don't need to say anything about loadtimes but I still say. They are horrible. When I did that first mission before first level, it took 36 seconds (I timed it) from point I pressed yes tothe point that mission started.

Gameplay: in first level I died one because I dropped in water but beside that there wasn't really big problems. Controls are quite weird but nothing what I can't get used. One stupid thing is the lag in homing attack. In terms of Tails part, I have to give them credit for one thing: they figured out that people who want to play as Tails (me included) probably want to play as Tails. It's stupid that he drops like a stone (it wasn't before like that) and those bombs, while they work I would rather use some more traditional attack like tail swipe, spindash or JUMPING.

Story, I already found multiple problems.

Well, in the end first impression wasn't that bad. But of course, it was just the first level

[DBZHedgy]

He's try develop '06 on PC. Looks good!

 

https://youtu.be/zxzPqJ-QamI

 

Well the comments in the video just goes to show how many people really did want a remastered remake.

 

EDIT:

Also

 

There's momentum built into the game unlike Sonic 2006. That's a nice touch.