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Official Sonic 2006 topic


thedarkknight

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Thing is, whatever liberties he has taken or will take are so little that it means basically nothing in the big picture. If they wanted to actually improve the game, they'd not only have to improve the homing attack (as they have), but..

There's also the way the level design is built for automation in specific areas, which would have to be changed if you don't want the game to continuously play itself. Then there's the Spin Dash, which would need to actually move like a Spin Dash to not feel really clunky and strange to control. Then there's the "too many moves on one button" problem that'd have to be fixed because noone at Sega seemed to think that was a good idea until 2008, and then there's the cheap shot death pits surrounding every possible corner that'd have to be improved upon somewhat to be bearable (meaning building more level design). Then the combat system (and the lack of ability to hit enemies with a regular jump) would have to be severely changed / removed just to make the game less tedious and stop-and-go. 

Then the art style would have to be improved somewhat to be less bland and dull.. and the models for characters and NPCs changed to actually look like Sonic stuff and not really ugly or out of place (probably changed to Unleashed style or something like it).. and then the story changed to be less confusing and dumb super-serious junk.. and either the removal of the in-game dialogue or an ability to toggle it..

You see what I'm saying?

The game's got so many problems from all directions that fixing one thing isn't going to fix everything else. While a few people in particular may just so happen to like most of the game's design decisions (I'm sure Bubsy 3D and Superman 64 have their fans), most believe the game to be pretty bad on all fronts, and to make this game good would require such a huge reimagining that it wouldn't even be the same game anymore. 

It'd be interesting, though, which is why I wish the talents behind this would've been for something like that, but I digress. 

I didn't mention that as a means to try and say that a teensy tiny bit is all it needs, that's just something that bothers me about it so far. I really REALLY hate how 06's Homing Attack functioned if you missed. It would shoot you in a straight line and then you'd stop immediately and lose all of your forward momentum, not that there was much to begin with in 06, but you get my point.

A lot of the problems you just mentioned would be pretty easy in keeping the game under the same vein, the only drastic changes that would be necessary are the art design, and the story. Even though that's sort of subjective though, the project is more so focused on polishing the gameplay part of 06, not much about the story and stuff.

The Spin Dash, just retool it and it'll work fine, this is being made from the ground up so ruling out something like that isn't impossible.
The Combat System, particularly the Jump Attack, is also something fairly simple to change about the game.
The Button Mapping, another easily changed mechanic, mapping buttons isn't hard at all

I can see the automation, and the death pits needing to be repurposed though, but in the case of the death pits, it's generally more forgivable since there isn't much ready to knock you off of the place you're standing anyway, and with the improvement of traction it should be a lot easier to control Sonic's movement as opposed to Sonic's really awkward and clunky acceleration and deceleration in the vanilla game.

Honestly though, most, if not all, of the automation is nearly completely unnecessary, like the beginning of Kingdom Valley. There don't need to be dash panels there at all, they don't add anything to it other than a speed boost, which, again, is unnecessary. I'd say that some loops would still need Dash Panels to go through, but I get a feeling that it's more due to the size of the loop then the problem of actual momentum.

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I gotta note that fixing the Spin Dash would require making it control like a Spin Dash though, and trying to make roll mechanics work in 3D is such a feat in itself that I don't believe they'd bother to implement it, even in just the way SA/SA2 handle it.

But other than that, yeah they're simple fixes for the most part. But regardless if they are or not, they're not going to make those changes to the game because they want to replicate the experience so badly for some reason.. it just feels so ridiculously misguided.

And even if those gameplay problems were fixed, we'd still have a really ugly game with really ugly character designs and an awful story. Which is why I feel like we'd just about be better off with seeing someone use the same levels to make an entirely different game, lol.

Edited by Azoo
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But other than that, yeah they're simple fixes for the most part. But regardless if they are or not, they're not going to make those changes to the game because they want to replicate the experience so badly for some reason.. it just feels so ridiculously misguided.

And even if those gameplay problems were fixed, we'd still have a really ugly game with really ugly character designs and an awful story. Which is why I feel like we'd just about be better off with seeing someone use the same levels to make an entirely different game, lol.

As I said earlier, he's willing to take some liberties with it, quite a few actually. He's even gone to the liberty to add in a few beta mechanics that didn't make the final cut.

and, like omg, some people like the art design and the story okay??? ;_;

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I just wonder what the devs think will happen when this gets released.  I wouldn't download it because I've already played it.  My 360 is just across the room from me, I can play 2006 whenever I like.

 

It's very hard to comment on because when I say stuff like "waste of talent" and so on it makes me think of those idiotic people who complain to artists with the same comment because that artist happens to not draw <fan art of this thing they like> anymore etc, and I despise those sorts of people.

And yet... I dunno just... it's Sonic 2006 mang...  Is this really gonna make them happy?  People will be like "wow that's impressive" while also completely and utterly not caring.  No-one will remember this contribution to the Sonic fan scene beyond the concept of "oh yeah some people remade Sonic 2006 near 1:1 in Unity.  That was... definitely a thing that happened, I guess."

I dunno this is the first time I've ever seen a project of this scale where I feel like SEGA giving them a cease & desist would be euthanasia rather than a murder lol.

 

I guess... the people who make these sorts of projects would have just spent days getting 100% bona fide enjoyment out of doing 10000 piece puzzles in a simpler time.  Constructive yet uncreative tasks are what make them happy?  Nothing wrong with that I guess, just defies our expectations of fan projects and independant game design...

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As I said earlier, he's willing to take some liberties with it, quite a few actually. He's even gone to the liberty to add in a few beta mechanics that didn't make the final cut.

and, like omg, some people like the art design and the story okay??? ;_;

While I agree people should be left alone to like anything they want… But I do feel it’s tiny bit needed for others to express they don’t like it in this case. Because we don’t really want the company to get the idea it’s a style fans prefer. Especially the art direction is bad as it poorly tries to mix multiple art styles together “AKA realistic humans & world with extreme simplistic cartoon style animal characters” and unless that is the whole point of the product… “Who Framed Roger Rabbit," otherwise it’s just bad art direction no matter if some folk like it or not. I can only hope if the rumored Sonic live action/CGI mix movie is true… that they will change their mind and do it full CGI style, because those mixed style kinds of products are just unappealing overall.

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Eh, I think it could've worked if they just did a better job modeling the humans in general. 

The CGI cutscenes, for example, looked really nice. Even people who hate the artstyle in general like how those looked. Both the people and the Sonic cast. It was done poorly, or rather, bearably so, in this case, but the mix isn't inherently flawed. 

Except Eggman.

Nothing can salvage Eggman.

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Eh, I think it could've worked if they just did a better job model the humans in general. 

The CGI cutscenes, for example, looked really nice. Even people who hate the artstyle in general like how those looked. Both the people and the Sonic cast. It was done poorly, or rather, bearably so, in this case, but the mix isn't inherently flawed. 

I don't agree. It just doesn't work IMO.

Except Eggman.

Nothing can salvage Eggman.

I do agree with that tho. Was worse Eggman design by far. xD

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Ah, well, opinions and all of that.

I can say that this mindset isn't particularly rare though, so it isn't a universally hated thing either, it's just poorly done in this case.

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I've never understood the desire to salvage anything from '06. It caused irreversible damage to the franchise's reputation and is best left as a relic of the past. The franchise needs to move forward with new ideas in order to fix or salvage anything.

Edited by Weedy Speedy
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The CGI cutscenes, for example, looked really nice. Even people who hate the artstyle in general like how those looked. 

To specify it's the legit HD CGI cutscenes that get praise,  and even then,  the only guarantee of positivity comes from the the very first and very last of said cutscenes.

Heck, some CGI scenes like the ones with Shadow and Silver  traveling to the past are still lackluster. 

 

and, like omg, some people like the art design and the story okay??? ;_;

Well at the same rate,  we've kinda already got Melpontro's 06 emulator project for that. 

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To specify it's the legit HD CGI cutscenes that get praise,  and even then,  the only guarantee of positivity comes from the the very first and very last of said cutscenes.

Heck, some CGI scenes like the ones with Shadow and Silver  traveling to the past are still lackluster. 

More or less what I was saying tbh

The very first and the very last of the cutscenes were what I was referring to the most since those scenes have Sonic and other Human beings in there that don't look horrendous.

As I said, it's basically a case to case scenario. Having good looking, somewhat realistic humans, and anthropomorphized animals isn't immediately bad. It can work. It just wasn't done well, is all I'm saying.

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My fave CG scenes in Sonic 2006 was probably Shadow's intro and Silver's intro.  The former felt oddly familiar, like it could've been a CG cut-scene from Shadow the Hedgehog (either the same model or same animation team, or something about the lighting choices, or maybe all three lol).

Silver's just had a nice sense of atmosphere to it, but that might've been the sound design moreso than the animation.  Just something about the echo-yness and framing and... I can't put my finger on what, where Blaze appears and tells Silver "he's appeared again" and they both shoot off across the rooftops... just one of those odd, tiny moments that just feel like they could've come from a different, better story/game, if that makes sense.

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More or less what I was saying tbh

The very first and the very last of the cutscenes were what I was referring to the most since those scenes have Sonic and other Human beings in there that don't look horrendous.

 

 Well,  then let's remember that there's a lot more CGI cutscenes than just the two (make sure to specify those in the future) and unfortunately they don't outweigh the general hit-and-miss  of 06's cutscenes,  sad to say. 

As I said, it's basically a case to case scenario. Having good looking, somewhat realistic humans, and anthropomorphized animals isn't immediately bad. It can work. It just wasn't done well, is all I'm saying.

Oh,  trust me,  I'm quite possibly the last person you need to relay this to. 

I myself preferred Sonic's world design had going for it before 06, what with a fine mix between cartoony,  aanime-ish, and dose of realistic looking humans. Their ugliness unlike in 06, has  more so their initial hardware to blame,  and in retrospect that aren't that bad. 

However,  we have 06 to thank for mucking things  up so badly for them that now SEGA'S too  scared to dare try and use them and resorted to full-on cartoony humans in Unleashed and onwards. One of my biggest grudges with 06.

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I've never understood the desire to salvage anything from '06. It caused irreversible damage to the franchise's reputation and is best left as a relic of the past. The franchise needs to move forward with new ideas in order to fix or salvage anything.

It has the best idea on handling major alternate characters despite the fact that each of them handled like shit. The sum being bad doesn't mean anyone's prohibited from looking at the individual parts.

But yes, move forward with new ideas it needs to do. Like Rise of Lyric. That was a fun time.

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It has the best idea on handling major alternate characters despite the fact that each of them handled like shit. The sum being bad doesn't mean anyone's prohibited from looking at the individual parts.

But yes, move forward with new ideas it needs to do. Like Rise of Lyric. That was a fun time.

Not really. Suddenly forcing a change in gameplay style when you're wanting to play as Sonic hasn't been a popular idea in recent times. That's why the Werehog was met so negatively and the major reason SA2 aged so "badly."

It was also a spinoff, wasn't made by Sonic Team, and has given us Sonic's best cartoon.

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However,  we have 06 to thank for mucking things  up so badly for them that now SEGA'S too  scared to dare try and use them and resorted to full-on cartoony humans in Unleashed and onwards. One of my biggest grudges with 06.

 

You say that almost as if it's a bad thing. =P

I'll never understand how some can say cartoon animals on the same level as Mickey Mouse including noodle limbs & stuff look natural next to near photo realistic worlds & humans. And yes the main Sonic characters are full blown cartoon style and not just anthropomorphic. When companies do this to their media... it just ruins it to me. It's a big pet peeve of mine.

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Well, then let's remember that there's a lot more CGI cutscenes than just the two (make sure to specify those in the future) and unfortunately they don't outweigh the general hit-and-miss of 06's cutscenes, sad to say. 

I know, and I didn't say that they did.

Just that they're notable for looking really nice regardless of whether or not it outweighs the quality of 06's engine made cutscenes.

Oh,  trust me,  I'm quite possibly the last person you need to relay this to. 

I myself preferred Sonic's world design had going for it before 06, what with a fine mix between cartoony,  aanime-ish, and dose of realistic looking humans. Their ugliness unlike in 06, has  more so their initial hardware to blame,  and in retrospect that aren't that bad. 

However,  we have 06 to thank for mucking things  up so badly for them that now SEGA'S too  scared to dare try and use them and resorted to full-on cartoony humans in Unleashed and onwards. One of my biggest grudges with 06.

I don't really think it's a bad move to go on through with the full-on cartooney humans that Unleashed made, in fact, most people agree that it's one of the best looks that the humans in the series have adopted. Myself included.

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It's not necessarily bad,  but I wish that we could at least have a mix of somewhat realistic and more cartoony humans. It's a unique thing to have just that right mix that's not too  much of this or that,  especially when it comes to human designs in Sonic. In Unleashed,  I was rather bored with how predictably cartoony every human turned out being,  granted I'll still admit that it beat getting assaulted with the horrible human designs of 06.

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I'm not sure how realistic humans fit in any way, shape or form with what are essentially anime-ized variations of rubber-hose anthropomorphic cartoon characters. It's like putting Mario characters in Skyrim.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Edited by Azoo
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It's not necessarily bad,  but I wish that we could at least have a mix of somewhat realistic and more cartoony humans. It's a unique thing to have just that right mix that's not too  much of this or that,  especially when it comes to human designs in Sonic. In Unleashed,  I was rather bored with how predictably cartoony every human turned out being,  granted I'll still admit that it beat getting assaulted with the horrible human designs of 06.

 

 

The whole dark realism thing always kind of looked like ass since like Sonic Adventure 2. The 2 foot tall cartoon hedgehog standing next to the 6 feet tall military commander just looks silly and makes it harder than it already is to take whatever melodrama they have going on. Unleashed fixed things, if anything. 

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In Unleashed,  I was rather bored with how predictably cartoony every human turned out being,  granted I'll still admit that it beat getting assaulted with the horrible human designs of 06.

I don't think it's boring per-say, and I still have a bit of a soft spot of 06's character designs personally.

In fact, the more cartooney-ish styles take a more creative route as opposed to what we've seen.

But that really makes me want a Sonic game with Anime styled Humans. I'd love that so much. <3 just let me dream ok? ;____;

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Not really. Suddenly forcing a change in gameplay style when you're wanting to play as Sonic hasn't been a popular idea in recent times. That's why the Werehog was met so negatively and the major reason SA2 aged so "badly."

It was also a spinoff, wasn't made by Sonic Team, and has given us Sonic's best cartoon.

None of the characters are actual gameplay style changes. I also made a note to mention "major" alternate characters- namely Sonic, Shadow, and Silver- in anticipation of this rebuttal, although in hindsight this distinction doesn't matter. Each character is merely a different take on the base state, a more specialized take on what the classics did. To argue against this is to simply argue against the use of other characters outright.

Sonic's best cartoon? Hardly. The OVA and the Werehog short beg to differ. I would even go as far as to say AoStH is funnier.

Furthermore, the fact that RoL was a spin-off made by ex-Naughty Dog people doesn't mean anything in a context where they were pushing this thing to be on par with the main games in the first place with a cartoon, and two games, and toys and a comic tie-in before the first game was even out.

Edited by Nepenthe
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For someone like me who never got a chance to play 06, this port is awesome. I've watched the cut-scenes from the story mode, but until I actually play the game I can't make a final judgement on 06. Not to mention they are fixing the physics so the game-play will be smoother.

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Regardless if you think its a waste of time or effort, 2006 needs to come to PC all sonic games do. if SEGA isn't going to do this then let teams like Gistix's do the job all the more power to them.

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Just kind of random, but my least favorite level is either Flame Core, Aquatic Base, or Tropical Jungle.

Actually, now that I think of it, it's probably Tropical Jungle because you have to carry Elise around the whole time. Except in either Hard or Very Hard mode, I forget which.

Has anyone bought the DLC for the game that gives a character "Very Hard" mode for their stages?

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