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Official Sonic 2006 topic


thedarkknight

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Just now, Jovahexeon Undyne Phoenix said:

Because its glitches make it ironically fun?

Could be, although it's more than just the glitches, really.

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That is just it. I do understand what about the plot was "bad" as a lot of fans try to pin on it. The main thing for me was the fact it involved time travel and the multiple streams you cross doing this. I mean honestly your telling me they beat a time god that could not actually be harmed and existed in the past present and future. Besides that I myself enjoyed the rest. Sure elise was a silly girl always in trouble but she had a charm i still like to this day.

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I personally think fixing '06 would be a good idea in terms of patching (so to speak) that big ugly spot in the franchise. Of course, it wouldn't take away what happened back in '06, but it would be more along the lines of SEGA saying "this is what we meant to do". It'd still be a challenge completely fixing the game if whoever was programming it decided not to rebuild it from the ground up, which would be the smarter thing to do in the long run.

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3 minutes ago, FantasticMrRobb said:

I personally think fixing '06 would be a good idea in terms of patching (so to speak) that big ugly spot in the franchise. Of course, it wouldn't take away what happened back in '06, but it would be more along the lines of SEGA saying "this is what we meant to do". It'd still be a challenge completely fixing the game if whoever was programming it decided not to rebuild it from the ground up, which would be the smarter thing to do in the long run.

I honestly would like that. Like a definite edition. All bugs and the story flushed out to what sega wanted. The online play and extra items that had to be whipped. I think it would be a neat project.

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There is no "fixing" '06. The problems the game has are so severe it would require essentially making a game from scratch, and no matter how accurate to their wildest dreams it turned out it still would not be anywhere near good enough to shake off its reputation. It would fail again, and no one would be happy.

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Oh my god, this again?

We've been over this. '06 is a train wreck. And not just of the ordinary kind - the kind that exploded spectacularly into flames and kept smouldering so long that it's burnt a crater into the ground. There is virtually nothing worth salvaging from it mechanically speaking, because the very core of '06 is dysfunctional and rotten. Its narrative is an incoherent mess that tries to come off as profound but reads more like a self-insert shipping fic. And you certainly don't gain any goodwill by picking it back up and trying to put the pieces together in some way that makes sense, because besides the fact that is fucking impossible, people of all walks of life will question why the fuck Sega is refocusing on the single worst part of the franchise verbatim when there are better, more obvious and infinitely more practical approaches they could be taking instead.

Just... why are people so obsessed with revisiting this game in spite of its infamy? It's not worth it. Not even close.

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Then again, you gotta think, the best way to "fix" the story would be to rewrite it. I mean, they could have the story with all the clear duck tape patches, or a cleanly rewritten story. Of course, all could be fixed (I would think) if the time traveling was taken out. I think that's the story's most flawed part.

Let me just take a second to point out this one scene that, I feel, is the most conflicting in the entire game. Remember when Shadow decided to stay in the "future" and fight Mephiles?

Well, we all remember that Rouge figures it out, and has to find a way to save Shadow. Which of course, leads to tracking down Omega and "sending" him to the future to deliver Shadow the Chaos Emerald so he can come back.

Now, this is the part that throws me off. How exactly does Omega get to the future? Well, he mentions stand-by mode.

So does he like..wait? I mean, does Omega sit there and wait for the world to "end"? Does this mean, by the time Omega "arrives" in the future, all the Heroes have died and wasn't seen Shadow at all?

It's bizarre, because it's kinda like creating an alternate timeline. While Mephiles wins(?) and takes over the world, killing all heroes in the process, Omega just sits there until Shadow's original time travelling sends him to that point where the heroes (who were sent from the past) appear and go through Crisis City and Flame Core. It's just crazy to think about, you know? Because when Shadow gets the Chaos Emerald that Omega is holding, it seems to create another timeline where the heroes have Shadow.

Geez, see how confusing time traveling is? Even if I did butcher this up a little bit, it's still confusing. Time travel is very tricky.

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Just... why are people so obsessed with revisiting this game in spite of its infamy? It's not worth it. Not even close.

Clearly because not everyone in the community has the same opinion of the game as you.

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The only way to fix 06 is completely redoing the game which is a waste of time and money, It's like Nintendo trying to fix Mario Hotel and Zelda CD- the fanbase should already forget that game and try focus in new things.

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Gonna come to the defense here for this one and say that, honestly, if they're going to redo the game straight from scratch and retool everything mechanically and narratively into something decent...that's kind of a new game in itself anyway. And people would still buy it just like they would a new Sonic game.

Yeah, that would still have things like Solaris, Mephiles, Soleanna, Silver around, but just because those things would be around wouldn't mean it would still be crap from the get go. And they wouldn't be wasting any more than they would working on something else - whether they redo Sonic 06 or do a different Sonic game, it's a new Sonic game either way.

Yes, I know it would be the same amount of work they could do for something else, and no, I'm not saying that what Sonic 06 did was actually good. But people are treating it like folks in support of this are wanting the same exact trainwreck they got from Sonic 06 when they're not - okay, to be fair some are, but others wanting a total remake are not saying "make the same trainwreck again, but better" that people are trying to frame it as, and that's just being as ridiculous as those that are saying that. They're not tying an anchor around their neck about it, they're not asking for Silver's wonky psi-mechanics back (maybe not the same way at least), they're not asking for Elise to kiss Sonic back to life, they're not asking for Sonic to move like a snail, they're not asking for a nonsensical storytelling, they're not asking for stupid side-quests, they damn sure aren't asking for glitches, and they're all around not asking for the problems that plagued the entirety of Sonic 06. They're practically asking for a different game, with a different narrative (i.e. how the story is told), but with these same characters and the same plot (i.e. what the story is about).

Call it a spiritual successor or whatever, but it wouldn't be the exact same as what Sonic 06 delivered at it's core. And regardless of whether any of you agree with that or not, this trivial guilt by association fallacy toward the mere idea of remaking the thing really needs to stop, because that's the same ridiculous and downright insulting logic people already do to Sonic with his friends and even having a story at all. They're not even bothered that much by whether they remake it or not, but if such a thing were to happen and people want to stay stuck over its past reception rather than judge that newly remade game on it's own merits, fine, then let them. They probably would have judged a completely different Sonic game as fairly anyway given that this franchise has more to it's bad reputation than just what Sonic 06 exposed, which isn't anything new. 

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Dude, no. You have got to accept that there is a point where something is beyond salvaging, and '06 is at that point. As soon as people realize it's an '06 remake it's dead in the water, that identity is too toxic for even a spectacular game to overcome. There is no benefit in wasting an entire game because some people want to see a terrible story told less terribly (and even the story will still be terrible, because everything about '06's story is terrible).

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10 hours ago, FantasticMrRobb said:

Then again, you gotta think, the best way to "fix" the story would be to rewrite it. I mean, they could have the story with all the clear duck tape patches, or a cleanly rewritten story. Of course, all could be fixed (I would think) if the time traveling was taken out. I think that's the story's most flawed part.

Let me just take a second to point out this one scene that, I feel, is the most conflicting in the entire game. Remember when Shadow decided to stay in the "future" and fight Mephiles?

Well, we all remember that Rouge figures it out, and has to find a way to save Shadow. Which of course, leads to tracking down Omega and "sending" him to the future to deliver Shadow the Chaos Emerald so he can come back.

Now, this is the part that throws me off. How exactly does Omega get to the future? Well, he mentions stand-by mode.

So does he like..wait? I mean, does Omega sit there and wait for the world to "end"? Does this mean, by the time Omega "arrives" in the future, all the Heroes have died and wasn't seen Shadow at all?

It's bizarre, because it's kinda like creating an alternate timeline. While Mephiles wins(?) and takes over the world, killing all heroes in the process, Omega just sits there until Shadow's original time travelling sends him to that point where the heroes (who were sent from the past) appear and go through Crisis City and Flame Core. It's just crazy to think about, you know? Because when Shadow gets the Chaos Emerald that Omega is holding, it seems to create another timeline where the heroes have Shadow.

Geez, see how confusing time traveling is? Even if I did butcher this up a little bit, it's still confusing. Time travel is very tricky.

Clearly because not everyone in the community has the same opinion of the game as you.

I agree with this. Some fans really hate the game. I really liked it. Honest truth my first playthrough I didn't notice bugs and blamed many deaths caused by them on myself. Sure the story was wild but here's 5he thing it's their story to tell. You got a better one. Going to college  get a degree and apply to sega a submit a idea. Some people jumped on the sonic train late. I was born into his world. 89 baby. My first system  and game were sonic and idea very followed him ever since. I won't forget the hype in high school when I saw the 06 e3 trailer. I think was amazing. The demo amazing well. Then I got the game amazing enjoyed it as well. Upon later playthrough I saw how buggy it truly was but I still enjoy the game. Some people hate it just to hate cause it did not live up to their fan fiction needs. But I'm thankful they had the idea for a more mature sonic story. But pressure and rushing messed it up.

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3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Dude, no. You have got to accept that there is a point where something is beyond salvaging, and '06 is at that point.

No one has to accept anything just because you and others don't see the point and are too pessimistic to bother with the thought. If someone sees something worth salvaging out of it - and admittedly, Sonic 06 did have somethings worth looking into - there's nothing wrong with that and them sharing their thoughts about it.

People thought this same thing with this entire franchise being unsalvagable at that point until Sonic Unleashed and Colors proved them wrong, so there's no telling how people would treat it if it actually turned out good. But you keep plugging your ears and perpetuating this guilt by association, "it's still bad because it looks like '06 even if it's not the same" fallacy all you want. It's as much of a broken record as the beastiality nonsense or "Sonic is dead" memes at this point.

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Dude, look.

The only way to make an '06 remake not a terrible game is to do practically everything differently than the original '06 did, because practically everything that '06 did was terrible. But if you do that, you are not actually remaking '06 in any meaningful way. And I'm not talking about glitches or poor controls, I'm talking about the things that define '06. So they'd be caught in a struggle between doing what makes for a good game, and what makes it recognizable as '06, and that's bound to result in a finished product that is worse than simply letting them make a whole new game.

And then on top of that, the identity of '06 is already so toxic that, regardless of the quality of the game, it is guaranteed to turn people away. They would be trying to overcome the reputation of an infamously bad game, arguably the worst game in a series of already inconsistent quality. Even if it miraculously turned out great, it wouldn't sell in proportion to its quality; by associating it with '06 you're crippling the game's appeal before it even comes out.

It is a bad idea.

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Dude, look.

The only way to make an '06 remake not a terrible game is to do practically everything differently than the original '06 did, because practically everything that '06 did was terrible. But if you do that, you are not actually remaking '06 in any meaningful way. And I'm not talking about glitches or poor controls, I'm talking about the things that define '06. So they'd be caught in a struggle between doing what makes for a good game, and what makes it recognizable as '06, and that's bound to result in a finished product that is worse than simply letting them make a whole new game.

And I'm pretty sure people asking for a remake would be A-OK with it being that different like that, if all they're wanting is just things like Solaris/Iblis, Silver in a better plot. You say that like the ones wanting a remake would have a fit if it's not entirely recognizable as Sonic '06, which by that very logic would be a whole new game anyway.

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And then on top of that, the identity of '06 is already so toxic that, regardless of the quality of the game, it is guaranteed to turn people away. They would be trying to overcome the reputation of an infamously bad game, arguably the worst game in a series of already inconsistent quality.

People have been saying that about damn near every 3D Sonic game announced, so pardon me if I find that to be a non-issue at this point given this has been the same fright that's been around regardless of what Sonic game it is.

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Even if it miraculously turned out great, it wouldn't sell in proportion to its quality; by associating it with '06 you're crippling the game's appeal before it even comes out.

It is a bad idea.

And your proof of that is...what? A bunch of vague fears of failure because people bashed the crap out of the original Sonic 06 a remake would only be remotely related to? People do that same nonsense of assciation 3D as bad for Sonic, I suppose we should entertain the idea of never attempting 3D ever again if all it takes to ruin something is the mere assciations of a ideas.

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Honestly  I can go on YouTube and find fans that enjoyed 06. I sonic game is flawless. I think a remake would sell fine. For more being 17 at the time the more mature sonic. And darker story feel will always be a special game to me. Honestly its,trailer at e3 was one of the best Imo to date still

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9 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And I'm pretty sure people asking for a remake would be A-OK with it being that different like that, if all they're wanting is just things like Solaris/Iblis, Silver in a better plot. You say that like the ones wanting a remake would have a fit if it's not entirely recognizable as Sonic '06, which by that very logic would be a whole new game anyway.

If people asking for an '06 remake don't actually want an '06 remake I have no idea what the subject of this discussion even is anymore.

9 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

People have been saying that about damn near every 3D Sonic game announced, so pardon me if I find that to be a non-issue at this point given this has been the same fright that's been around regardless of what Sonic game it is.

Yeah and look at how successful Sonic is these days, selling billions like his reputation for being garbage just doesn't matter, surely directly evoking memories of the worst game isn't going to hurt anything. We're going to try to redeem '06 by making a game that may or may not be a remake of '06 that people are supposed to recognize as '06 while also judging it independently of '06 and...fuck man I can't keep doing this. This is insanity.

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Now, just because people enjoy a game doesn't make it flawless. Sonic 06 is definitely hella flawed and broken.

But that doesn't mean something from the ground up with slight similairites to it is a bad thing. I'm only defending the idea of remaking Sonic 06 because it a valid idea and wouldn't be as bad as people make it out to be.

20 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If people asking for an '06 remake don't actually want an '06 remake I have no idea what the subject of this discussion even is anymore.

Not everyone asking for a remake are asking for that same Sonic 06 "almost kill the franchise" that was at it's core. The thing could be designed with entirely different mechanics and a completely different story using the same characters and setting. 

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Yeah and look at how successful Sonic is these days, selling billions like his reputation for being garbage just doesn't matter, surely directly evoking memories of the worst game isn't going to hurt anything.

Probably wouldn't for all we really know. If it hurts you that much, don't buy the game and let others have their moment to see if it's worth it. But I don't see how "it reminds me of Sonic 06" immediately says "therefore it's bad" as if it's completely different mechanics and differing storytelling with most of the same cast somehow has no merit anymore. You guys constantly talk about things like the gameplay needing to good to fix the series's reputation, and yet you're here treating it like a complete non-factor when the name "Sonic 06" is brought up even if some are up to the challenge of making it new and different from the ground up.

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We're going to try to redeem '06 by making a game that may or may not be a remake of '06 that people are supposed to recognize as '06 while also judging it independently of '06 and...fuck man I can't keep doing this. This is insanity.

Well you're the one overcomplicating that to an insane degree, not me. You are more than welcome to stop and not bother with this as others continue if it gives you that much of a headache 

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Anyone ever just realize that Sonic actually fought a god in this game? Makes you wonder just how powerful Super Sonic really is, despite being helped by Shadow and Silver.

Pretty sure Solaris technically should be the most powerful enemy Sonic has fought to date. Then again, makes you wonder how Perfect Dark Gaia could hurt Super Sonic but Solaris couldn't...

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20 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Not everyone asking for a remake are asking for that same Sonic 06 "almost kill the franchise" that was at it's core. The thing could be designed with entirely different mechanics and a completely different story using the same characters and setting.

So when people ask for a remake what they really mean is not a remake at all, just '06 fanservice. In spite of the fact that this started with people talking about bug fixes and story tweaks. Thanks for clearing that up.

20 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

If it hurts you that much, don't buy the game and let others have their moment to see if it's worth it.

As if enough time and money hasn't been wasted in this series already, you'd want me to wait even longer for a game that's actually worth a damn while Sonic Team pushes out a selfish disaster. Yeah, no, not interested.

20 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

But I don't see how "it reminds me of Sonic 06" immediately says "therefore it's bad"

How can you not understand that? How can you not understand something that is so fundamental to the way the human mind works? If you put your hand in a fire and get burned, do you not make the connection that fire burns you and learn not to stick your hand into it again?

20 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

You guys constantly talk about things like the gameplay needing to good to fix the series's reputation, and yet you're here treating it like a complete non-factor when the name "Sonic 06" is brought up even if some are up to the challenge of making it new and different from the ground up.

Gameplay is obviously the most important thing, but if you attach the game to '06's reputation, you are going to push people away from it regardless, with absolutely no benefits. There is literally nothing to be gained by tying it to '06, just skip over that shit entirely and make a good, new game that doesn't have to fight '06's reputation.

3 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

Chaos was a god too.

And Sonic beat him pretty handily, twice. Once in his base form too.

Chaos was basically a highly evolved chao revered as a god, not an actual literal god.

Considering how Solaris' bits were experimented on in a lab I'm not sure how much it qualifies as a literal god either, tbh.

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My only objection to trying to make a "better 06" is the consequence of such a project needlessly taking up a release slot of a new Sonic game. If it must exist, have this be a side-project.

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11 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Uhh, wrong topic?

No he said it would take up their time I was just saying what's in the pipeline atm

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