Official Sonic 2006 topic

October 13, 2016

22 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Sonic 2017 has been met with apprehension specifically because of the imagery in the trailer bringing Sonic 06 and Shadow to mind.

I think this isn't straightly as in majority of people with an opinion about the matter kind of observation but still, this came to my mind:

And yet again I feel I'm being a part of some kind of minority, be it as in "how loud you can get" or "how many people agree with you" meter. Since I'm actually hoping for (when it comes to the Project 2017) something that has a plot that doesn't need my imagination make fillers for the plot for it feeling natural and convincing enough.

October 14, 2016

4 hours ago, Sir Laptop said:

A few certain people on this board talk about a revived '06, not for the game it was, but for the game it could have been (the trailer above). That trailer and the E3 2006 demo has little in common with the final game since:

You can't turn into Super Sonic at will in the final game, only the final boss

You can't go as fast as Sonic as what you can in the E3 2006 demo.

Shadow can obviously not use vehicles unlike what was shown in the E3 2006 trailer

The load times are nowhere near as long as the final game.

There was no such thing as a day/night cycle in the final game, only the E3 2005 demo.

There are nowhere as many glitches in the demos than in the final game

Now see, this is another thing I don't get - people talk about small improvements like these as if they would have made all the difference if the game had launched with them. At best, it would have made the game merely mediocre rather than outright bad, because for every indication we have, the vast majority of the awful design decisions and ridiculous plot were never due to change anyway. Technical competence would've been all they had going for them regardless, as funny as that sounds in hindsight - you still would've had sections of level arbitarily separated into slow and fast sections rather than integrated into one playstyle, you still would've had a huge cast of characters that are mostly redundant and often forcibly switch you into them with little reason or consistency, you still would have had level design that insists on auto-pathing you for upwards of 20 seconds at a time through springs, boostpads and launch ramps (and that's the best case scenario - most levels weren't as finished as Wave Ocean and Kingdom Valley and ended up really bland and flat instead. Looking at you Radical Train and White Acropolis), and don't even get me started on whatever the hell Mephiles's convoluted mess of a plan was supposed to be.

And really, what would a day/night cycle have even added to the game besides aesthetics? It struck me more as a tech demo than an actual demonstration of game mechanics. I'm not convinced Super Sonic would've made much difference either, considering he's just regular Sonic with invulnerability and a speed boost - and considering how awful and inconsistent Sonic's handling was even at default speeds, I cringe to think of how much worse Super Sonic would've made it. The point is, time alone would not have fixed 06, because the biggest problems that weren't technical problems were embedded right into the design process rather than innocent oversights that ruin what could have been a much better game, and I feel like this is the main thing that the majority of apologists and white knights just don't seem to understand.

Now someone is probably going to say "just forget the design document and start over", and well... obviously by that point you're making an entirely different game and all you have left are incredibly vauge similarities, so by that point you can just make a new game instead and sever all the burden that '06's name carries. Fair enough if you just want a game with a serious narrative with a doomed future being the main plotline, a combat focus that doesn't come at the expense of flow, a broad cast of characters that are mechanically consistent yet diverse enough to interpret level design differently, and a fleshed out game world with plenty to do in it, but those are all things you can do completely independantly of 06 anyway, and forcibly linking yourself to it is only going to negatively impact any work you do on the game regardless of how great it is just by virtue of looking to the most infamous game in the series - and for that matter, one of the most ridiculed games in videogame history - for inspiration. There's a pretty good reason you don't see anyone trying to salvage the likes of Bomberman Act Zero, Daikatana or Drake of the 99 Dragons.

October 14, 2016

3 hours ago, Soni.exe said:

Besides, isn't there a fan project that's remaking 06 through Unity or something like that?

Yes and I don't know why its not being brought up, we are getting a remake were just waiting on Gistix porting the rest of the engine and hes already got Kingdom Valley and Wave Ocean done.

This was his post back in august just as a refresher:

Quote

Hello everyone! I'm still working on this game although not as much as I'd want to, come closer and I'll tell you everything:

What has been done:

Most of the gameplay related stuff have been rewritten on Unity 5, everything is working wonderfully.

Added all of Sonic's Kingdom Valley, and also the two Wave Ocean sections. (Although the only exclusive object added is the "Water Slide")

Created Mach Speed Sonic, also working perfectly. Due to his speed some tweaks in collision may be necessary.

What has not been done:

Menus and result screen. I don't really like working with UI, but thankfully I just found somebody that is gladly helping me. (Lucas Rodrigues)

I also need to fix some objects of which I don't fully understand their inner workings.

And as if being busy wasn't enough to keep me away from this project, my hard drive is about to give up. But if I realize that I won't have enough time for this project or if something else happens, I will most likely open-source it as it is.

October 14, 2016

2 hours ago, goku262002 said:

Yes and I don't know why its not being brought up, we are getting a remake were just waiting on Gistix porting the rest of the engine and hes already got Kingdom Valley and Wave Ocean done.

This was his post back in august just as a refresher:

I wish him a lot of luck with this. I look forward to it.

October 14, 2016

I'm with the people who posit that remaking Sonic 06 would require outright changing so many elements of the game that the exercise would be useless. The game sort of collapses in on itself with flaws impacting other design decisions which go on and on and on.

The decision to have every character go through every single level in the game affects level design, story, and glitchiness. This is best seen in Sonic's own story, in which nothing is learned, events repeat themselves several times besides Elise getting constantly kidnapped (Eggman monologing about the flames of disaster, Sonic and Elise have a moment in a field, etc), and it doesn't even begin to impact the greater plot. But this happens in the rest of the game too - everyone gets thrown to the future for some reason so they can play Crisis City and Flame Core, even though going to the future does nothing for the plot or the characters, every return to Emerald Coast is redundant, villains literally disappear in a puff of smoke so the main character can go back to the hub world...

Look at it this way - how stupid would Sonic Adventure have ended up being if Knuckles, Tails, Amy and Big had to play every single level in the game? For instance, there's no reason why Sonic should be playing Aquatic Base - it's a pivotal story mission for Shadow and Silver, but Sonic? You mean Dr Robotnik has been literally hiding under everyone's nose for the entire game, just popping out in the Egg Carrier from underneath the fucking city to kidnap the Princess?

Having every character play each level also makes the levels suffer, mostly thanks to Silver. They attempt to get around this by switching to Blaze during sections that Silver could not possibly complete, but they appear to have built the levels with the slowest character in mind for the most part - there aren't many huge set pieces in the game besides huge loops or the mach speed section.

As for glitches... White Acropolis' Snowboarding section is pretty much the worst fucking thing in the game. It is impossible to control with any grace or elan, it is busted. Of course, it's not designed for snowboarding - it's a running section, Blaze and Shadow deal with it just fine. But Sonic had to snowboard for some reason, and they had no other place in the level for Sonic to snowboard. Shadow suffers a lot with this too, in relation to Sonic - his driving section in Crisis City is clearly designed for the snowboard, as the physics are nigh on uncontrollable on that surface, same with the bike in Radical Train.

The idea of each character having their own villain - Sonic with Eggman, Shadow with Meph, Silver with Iblis - also fails because, for one, Eggman has even less to do with the plot than Sonic. His plan for the Princess just seems to be kidnap her, and talk constantly, maybe in a bid to drive her to tears with his ponderous, repetitive dialogue. Then, with Silver and Shadow, it would have been smarter for them to interact more after the time travel nonsense - They realise they are fighting the same thing... and then never talk to each other again. Silver decides to go hang with Sonic and save the Princess, despite the fact that he realises Meph is evil, and that he's the same as the thing destroying the future.

This all contributes to the games general clunkiness - characters going through missions not designed for them is a recipe for 'Those enemies are protecting that cage for some reason, I'd better defeat them first' tedium at best and characters flying off loops or clipping through geometry at worst.

That said, I'm not sure how easy gameplay would be fixed - The Generations mod is pretty unplayable with Modern Sonic's speed, as the levels are based on a slow character, but even with the right speed I'd hesitate to call the basic action of playing 06 'fun'. There's a lot of mandatory 'beat up the enemy' rooms, the game keeps stopping you from moving forward, and there isn't much finesse to it - you spend two thirds of the game just mashing the homing attack. Fixing that would require changing the game fundamentally, so again I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Also His World is fucking garbage and one of the worst songs i've ever heard.

October 14, 2016

9 hours ago, Soni.exe said:

Adventure 1 is far more deserving of a remake than 06 ever will and besides 06 reused ideas the Adventures and Heroes had anyway so yeah.

I thought an Adventure 1 remake for iOS and Android (and PC) similar to the remastered classics but done by the developer of Green Hill Paradise instead of Taxman would be an excellent idea. We've already got fangame developers doing official classic games for Sega, why don't we have one of the top-tier modern Sonic fangame developers work on remastered Dreamcast-era games for Sega? It makes sense as SA1 and SA2 are the most popular modern Sonic games in the franchise, but neither have been aging well.

3 hours ago, Hyp3hat said:

Also His World is fucking garbage and one of the worst songs i've ever heard.

Which version do you refer to? I can agree with the normal version, but the Zebrahead and Crush 40 variants are quite good and are comparable to Knight of the Wind, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Boom.

October 14, 2016

6 hours ago, Sir Laptop said:

I can agree with the normal version, but the Zebrahead and Crush 40 variants are quite good and are comparable to Knight of the Wind, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Boom.

Gotta say, His World is a pretty great tune from the series. However, the other Zebrahead version is the best version, in my opinion. Heard it before, anyone? I have the feeling it's kind of uncommon.

I can't get enough of it, personally.

October 14, 2016

@Sir Laptop @FantasticMrRobb

Ech, stupid trackpad

The Zebrahead version certainly gives it a lot of welly, Crush 40 seems to do all the things I hate about Crush 40 - too much slap bass, takin it too seriously - without any of the things I love about Crush 40, but it's telling that both versions change the original rather a lot (The Crush 40 lyrics are completely different, right? Besides the chorus). The original composition is just very undercooked, with the chorus melody dragging like fuck. To see what I mean, listen to the version that plays during the Solaris boss fight - just those long hanging notes on the 'woooooorld' part of the chorus really ruin it for me.

Also, changed lyrics or not, the words in any version are still pretty dumb. I appreciate you trying to change my mind, though. But still the worst Sonic vocal song that springs to mind, would listen to A New Venture over these any day of the week.

October 14, 2016

You didn't like the version I posted?

October 14, 2016

Just now, FantasticMrRobb said:

You didn't like the version I posted?

I don't hate it as much as the OG, but like I said, Zebrahead can't really rescue the song from it's own inherent rubbishness. They certainly give it a good try, but the song's beyond saving imo.

October 14, 2016

His world I thought is one if his better themes

October 15, 2016

6 hours ago, Meta77 said:

His world I thought is one if his better themes

It Doesn't Matter > His World. It Doesn't Matter fits Sonic as a character so much better than His World ever could, although both are relatively good songs overall, granted if you don't listen to the original His World or the SA2 version of It Doesn't Matter.

October 15, 2016

The heck is wrong with the SA2 version of It Doesn't Matter? I actually prefer it to SA1's version.

October 15, 2016

45 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

The heck is wrong with the SA2 version of It Doesn't Matter? I actually prefer it to SA1's version.

Same here. The SA2 version feels faster- paced and has more energy than the SA1 version, which makes it way more catchier to me. Not sure what makes it so bad.

October 15, 2016

14 minutes ago, CuzEyeCan said:

Same here. The SA2 version feels faster- paced and has more energy than the SA1 version, which makes it way more catchier to me. Not sure what makes it so bad.

That and the lyrics feels more easy-going, which I think fits Sonic a lot more than the SA1 version which feels like they're stressing the lyrics as they're yelling.

October 16, 2016

On 10/14/2016 at 7:10 PM, Sir Laptop said:

It Doesn't Matter > His World. It Doesn't Matter fits Sonic as a character so much better than His World ever could, although both are relatively good songs overall, granted if you don't listen to the original His World or the SA2 version of It Doesn't Matter.

Ooooh, yeah!

Well, I don't show off, don't criticize

I'm just livin' by my own feelings

And I won't give in, won't compromise

I just only have a steadfast heart of gold

I don't know why, I can't leave though it might be tough

But I ain't out of control, just livin' by my word

Don't ask me why, I don't need a reason

I got my way, my own way

It doesn't matter now what happens I will never give up the fight

There is no way I will run away from all of my frights

Long as the voice inside me says go, I will always keep on running

There is no way to stop me from going to the very top

It doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right

Well, I won't look back, I don't need to

Time won't wait and I got so much to do

Where do I stop, it's all a blur and so unclear

Well, I don't know but I can't be wrong

This fight is not for anybody, this is purely for myself

There is no way I'm gonna give up 'til the very end

I can't tell what is wrong and what is right, I've got to find the answer

But until I do, there's no way I will ever give up

Place all your bets on the one you think is right

(instrumental)

It doesn't matter now what happens I will never give up the fight

There is no way I will run away from all of my frights

Long as the voice inside me says go, I will always keep on running

There is no way to stop me from going to the very top

It doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right

His world

C'mon and light the fuse, he's a rocket and he's ready to go,

'Cause now the countdown has started and he's ready to blow.

He's got the dope sounds pumpin' in his stereo. (-eo!)

Kickin' ass fast, puttin on a show.

Go on and get yourself together, there's no time to rest.

And if you put the time in, he'll put you to the test.

He's like a running man, in his world more is less,

And if you wanna test him best, bring your best.

Don't make me spell it out, bring your best!