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Official Sonic 2006 topic

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31 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

No other Sonic game with plotholes so bad it directly makes other games impossible (namely the blue emerald paradox) comes to mind. Even ShTH, which invented a backstory with aliens out of buttfuck nowhere, still did it with consideration of previous games in Shadow's character arc and didn't actually contradict anything in the process.

No other Sonic game that forces the same level of cringeworthy romance subplot comes to mind. The only one that comes close is CD, and even that ultimately adds up to a skippable encounter, a scripted sequence and a level ending trigger over the entire course of the game, and none of them play out longer than they're welcome to - you'd honestly be forgiven for completely forgetting it's a thing at most points.

No other Sonic game that gives the main character reduced importance in the overall narrative comes to mind. Even SA2, at worst, gave both lead characters equal billing and still made them a part of the same actual plot, whereas Sonic and Eggman both are treated as irrelevant to the real danger in 06 until the eleventh hour.

No other Sonic game that conveniently forgets certain things exist for the sake of making their plot work come to mind. As far as I am aware, Heroes is the only other game in the series that doesn't immediately resort to the Tornado whenever Eggman has a flying fortress out of reach to be boarded, and even then I'm convinced they only glossed over it for the sake of parity between teams. 06 doesn't have that excuse. That's saying nothing of the fact that Knux's ability to sense the chaos emeralds never shows up in a plot that largely revolves around them.

No other Sonic game that straight up makes characters do incredibly dumb shit to make villains seem cunning and manipulative comes to mind. pppp already covered this to some extent, but I feel it needs to be reiterated - Mephiles isn't a threat because he's played off as smart, he's a threat because the actions of everyone around and the plot threads built up to support him are blatant bullshit desperately contrived to make him seem more competent than he really is. For the life of me I can't think of any analogue throughout the entire franchise for this. Even Metal Overlord in Heroes at least came as a big surprise, even if it wasted their well-earned buildup on something stupid.

No other Sonic game that uses quite as much blatant padding comes to mind. Even though Heroes made every team visit every stage just like 06 did, they never had to contrive an excuse for any of them to be there, if only because every character had the same end goal, aware or not. Meanwhile Silver is for the most part only ever relevant to the story whenever Sonic or Shadow is around, most of his time is spent chasing the former around like a homicidal Amy and usually building up to anticlimactic "oh he isn't here" results. And Elise is kidnapped on no less than three seperate occasions (maybe even four? Do correct me if I got that wrong) in order to justify running Sonic's story longer rather than putting anything interesting or relevant in between.

And of course, no other Sonic game that seems so aware of how bad it is that it retcons the entire events of it at the end comes to mind. Seriously, most publishers usually wait a year or two for the fallout to get to them - these guys seemed to be aware of how badly it'd be received while they were making it, which frankly should have been a big warning flag for the executives up high.

Do I need to go on?

You do know that 06 and Secret Rings were made by separate teams, right? It's not like cancelling one would have diverted resources back towards the other - they'd just start a new game to develop in tandem like they already were.

I'm skipping most that all of text . Walls of text annoy. I will say that the romance was not really  creep no idea why people keep saying that or cringe I forget which you said

 

And you do know 06 team was cut down because of rings right had they stayed even with yuki leaving maybe it would have been a bit better

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Hey man, you literally asked for it. I'm honestly not sure what you were expecting - there's just that much bullshit to sift through.

8 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

And you do know 06 team was cut down because of rings right had they stayed even with yuki leaving maybe it would have been a bit better

When this is one of the most infamous failures of videogame history we're talking about, "a bit better" isn't good enough.

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That's a desperate strawman if ever I've seen one. Just outright ignoring the answer to your own challenge. 

44 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I will say that the romance was not really  creep no idea why people keep saying that or cringe I forget which you said

 

Actually formulate an argument. That helps. 

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22 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

That's a desperate strawman if ever I've seen one. Just outright ignoring the answer to your own challenge. 

Actually formulate an argument. That helps. 

No its not. Just cause I do not want to sit through a wall of text. Honestly most everything can be from ones own opinion. Think the romance was awkward, some do not,  saying that if given more time the game would still be a mess, no one knows that. The thing with many gripes from 06 is not so much what the game was but what others wanted from it. Maybe the game would not have been any better had the team not split, we will never know, eggman trying to unleash the flames of disaster is pretty important. if anything sega paced the story and also told it both horribly.  At least mephiles killed sonic, instead of some last minute the power of friendship will help up defeat you. IE Metal overlord or time eater.

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Okay, so to break and shake things up a bit in this topic (although knowing my luck I'm probably just repeating something I posted here a long time ago), here's a hypothetical scenario:

How would you have reacted to the story of Sonic 06 if it turned out that the events of the story were really subconsciously created by Silver to cover up a traumatic event?

The big twist would be as follows:

Spoiler

 

Iblis did not actually destroy Soleanna, but in reality it was Silver after being put through hellish trauma in his childhood for his psychic powers, to the point he decimated the entire city and everyone in it in a psychic powered meltdown. Horrified by what he did and unable to face the truth of his actions, he essentially trapped himself inside a psychic illusion of Soleanna. However, he deep down knew the truth, but ended up fragmenting his mind in the process, creating several constructs representing different aspects of himself.

Iblis, who represented his fear of his powers and losing control again.

Mephiles, who represents his desire to avoid facing his fears by any means necessary.

Elise, who represents his sense of helplessness in the face of the horrors he caused. She also disappears once Silver has his realization...for reasons I can't articulate. Help me on this.

and finally fake-Blaze, who was based off of a photo of Blaze he found somewhere before his meltdown. She represents his desire to finally confront the truth and move on, but she can only truly fulfill her part only if Silver himself is willing.

Of course, Silver can't face his trauma, so he creates the plot of 06 with the crazy time travel thing and Mephiles' convoluted plan (basically his interpretation of an evil mastermind's plan) to put himself as the hero and avoid facing the truth, which due to his psychic powers manifests in reality and also sticks him in a permanent loop since he deep down knows none of it is real.

With this in mind, Sonic and Shadow basically stumble into Silver's self-created prison by accident (Sonic because he was waffling around, Shadow because he was tasked by GUN to look into some mysterious disappearances around the area), and through a combination of snarking, encouragement, exposing the odd inconsistencies in Silver's psychic realm, and some old-fashioned buttkicking, Silver is forced to realize that Soleanna's destruction is his fault, and that the time traveling Iblis Mephiles kudzu plot that puts him in the position as the hero in the canon(?) game is really just his delusions trying to cover up his pain and trauma (basically there was no time travel at all, thus ensuring that the Chaos Emeralds don't become a plothole/part of a plothole).

Afterwards, Mephiles and Blaze are revealed to have become self-aware, with the former wanting to keep the mental prison forever because it's what keeps the constructs alive, while fake Blaze wants to end it because she knows that innocent people are being hurt by Silver's powers and she also wants Silver himself to move on. Stuff happens, Sonic and Shadow convince Silver to finally stand against Mephiles and Iblis, big battle ensues, Silver's mental prison finally shatters, and the three hedgehogs and the missing people are free, but the constructs disappear. Silver is now having to figure out where he can go from this point and *insert a happy ending here* or something because I can't think of anything. Or maybe just have Silver turn out to be a ghost all along or something.

 

PHEW! So what do you think?

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1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

No its not. Just cause I do not want to sit through a wall of text.

The very fact that this can't be tl;dr'd in of itself should be a pretty big indication of just how much is wrong with this game. If you're not here to read or discuss, why are you here?

1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

 At least mephiles killed sonic, instead of some last minute the power of friendship will help up defeat you. IE Metal overlord or time eater.

Deus Ex Machina doesn't stop being Deus Ex Machina when the villain does it instead, especially when it's one who had absolutely no reason not to earlier. Not to mention... that's exactly how 06 ended anyway? Everyone claimed they couldn't win without Sonic, so they put aside their differences to make that happened and topped it all off with THE POWER OF LOOOOOOOOVE

 

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7 hours ago, Blacklightning said:

The very fact that this can't be tl;dr'd in of itself should be a pretty big indication of just how much is wrong with this game. If you're not here to read or discuss, why are you here?

Deus Ex Machina doesn't stop being Deus Ex Machina when the villain does it instead, especially when it's one who had absolutely no reason not to earlier. Not to mention... that's exactly how 06 ended anyway? Everyone claimed they couldn't win without Sonic, so they put aside their differences to make that happened and topped it all off with THE POWER OF LOOOOOOOOVE

 

Thing is no one had any need with each other what are you talk mind about. Sonic was dead. Dead. They had to bring him back that way.  it was a kiss many movies and games do it all the time. Then they simply go super to fight.   no words needed they just knkw what they have to do

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11 hours ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Okay, so to break and shake things up a bit in this topic (although knowing my luck I'm probably just repeating something I posted here a long time ago), here's a hypothetical scenario:

How would you have reacted to the story of Sonic 06 if it turned out that the events of the story were really subconsciously created by Silver to cover up a traumatic event?

The big twist would be as follows:

  Hide contents

 

Iblis did not actually destroy Soleanna, but in reality it was Silver after being put through hellish trauma in his childhood for his psychic powers, to the point he decimated the entire city and everyone in it in a psychic powered meltdown. Horrified by what he did and unable to face the truth of his actions, he essentially trapped himself inside a psychic illusion of Soleanna. However, he deep down knew the truth, but ended up fragmenting his mind in the process, creating several constructs representing different aspects of himself.

Iblis, who represented his fear of his powers and losing control again.

Mephiles, who represents his desire to avoid facing his fears by any means necessary.

Elise, who represents his sense of helplessness in the face of the horrors he caused. She also disappears once Silver has his realization...for reasons I can't articulate. Help me on this.

and finally fake-Blaze, who was based off of a photo of Blaze he found somewhere before his meltdown. She represents his desire to finally confront the truth and move on, but she can only truly fulfill her part only if Silver himself is willing.

Of course, Silver can't face his trauma, so he creates the plot of 06 with the crazy time travel thing and Mephiles' convoluted plan (basically his interpretation of an evil mastermind's plan) to put himself as the hero and avoid facing the truth, which due to his psychic powers manifests in reality and also sticks him in a permanent loop since he deep down knows none of it is real.

With this in mind, Sonic and Shadow basically stumble into Silver's self-created prison by accident (Sonic because he was waffling around, Shadow because he was tasked by GUN to look into some mysterious disappearances around the area), and through a combination of snarking, encouragement, exposing the odd inconsistencies in Silver's psychic realm, and some old-fashioned buttkicking, Silver is forced to realize that Soleanna's destruction is his fault, and that the time traveling Iblis Mephiles kudzu plot that puts him in the position as the hero in the canon(?) game is really just his delusions trying to cover up his pain and trauma (basically there was no time travel at all, thus ensuring that the Chaos Emeralds don't become a plothole/part of a plothole).

Afterwards, Mephiles and Blaze are revealed to have become self-aware, with the former wanting to keep the mental prison forever because it's what keeps the constructs alive, while fake Blaze wants to end it because she knows that innocent people are being hurt by Silver's powers and she also wants Silver himself to move on. Stuff happens, Sonic and Shadow convince Silver to finally stand against Mephiles and Iblis, big battle ensues, Silver's mental prison finally shatters, and the three hedgehogs and the missing people are free, but the constructs disappear. Silver is now having to figure out where he can go from this point and *insert a happy ending here* or something because I can't think of anything. Or maybe just have Silver turn out to be a ghost all along or something.

 

PHEW! So what do you think?

I'll see what I can do, I'm honestly growing tired of this tennis match discussion...

Well, the only thing I can ask right now is... how horrible trauma must Silver have suffered for getting into such a complicated state? He is powerful but still, the trigger must've been a one of a kind. like the whole city turning on him for years or something..?

Elise... hmm... maybe she could disappear around the point where Mephiles would try one last time while fused on Iblis or something, while Sonic plays dead and Shadows shouting on Silver how it's all inside his head and he's the one who can stop it all while Silver's afraid of Mephiles because he just realised it came out of him... or something. FEEL free to come up with something better. 

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18 minutes ago, BlueSky said:

I'll see what I can do, I'm honestly growing tired of this tennis match discussion...

Well, the only thing I can ask right now is... how horrible trauma must Silver have suffered for getting into such a complicated state? He is powerful but still, the trigger must've been a one of a kind. like the whole city turning on him for years or something..?

Elise... hmm... maybe she could disappear around the point where Mephiles would try one last time while fused on Iblis or something, while Sonic plays dead and Shadows shouting on Silver how it's all inside his head and he's the one who can stop it all while Silver's afraid of Mephiles because he just realised it came out of him... or something. FEEL free to come up with something better. 

I'll be honest, that was kinda my thought process for the trauma bit. I figured that maybe Silver never had that great of a control over his powers so he kept on causing accidents that slowly made him ostracized. Or maybe the entire city is full of religious fanatics for Solaris or something who see him as an easy scapegoat for their self righteousness. I dunno, basically something extremely traumatizing. Additionally the meltdown wasn't intentional on Silvers part; he just lost control badly.

As for the Elise bit, eh I can't think of anything better yet.

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I'll be honest i've only been through '06 one time. 

Glitches , bad physics, plot holes, loading times, laughable dialogue and inter-species relationships aside. I enjoyed it. i liked the levels and the art design not to mention that soundtrack. and also those cgi cutscenes were beautiful

 

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So over at 4chan's Sonic the Hedgehog General it was suggested that Blaze the Cat's appearence in Sonic 06 was from how she, like Cream the Rabbit in Advance 2, was supposed to have her first game actually be this one. It goes that it was decided to use for Blaze for Sonic Rush with her backstory from that game.

On my front, I wonder if she's actually from an earlier draft of Sonic 06 that became Sonic Rush (that is, some adventure with dimension/time travel and a princess/queen associated with fire) with Blaze being kept around without doing enough to account for SR. Going even further I speculate that Elise is based on who became Blaze.

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On 9/30/2017 at 3:11 PM, Almar said:

So over at 4chan's Sonic the Hedgehog General it was suggested that Blaze the Cat's appearence in Sonic 06 was from how she, like Cream the Rabbit in Advance 2, was supposed to have her first game actually be this one. It goes that it was decided to use for Blaze for Sonic Rush with her backstory from that game.

This doesn't explain why Blaze has 2 conflicting backstories. Cream doesn't have that problem, so why does Blaze have it if they were introduced similarly?

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I doubt continuity was considered at all in '06's case tbh. Everything about her inclusion screams that they wanted a recognizable face there and didn't care whether or not she fit into the narrative role they'd decided for her.

...how the heck do you find a pristine royal robe in the post apocalypse, anyway?

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18 minutes ago, SwissBunny said:

This doesn't explain why Blaze has 2 conflicting backstories. Cream doesn't have that problem, so why does Blaze have it if they were introduced similarly?

Well, the Heroes manual says that Amy had just met Cream shortly before Heroes.

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2 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

'06 was meant to be a reboot wasn't it? So it didn't matter that she was in Rush since this was meant to be a new start. 

Was it, though? The game assumes every other preexisting character has essentially the same personality, backstory, relationships, etc as in the "old" continuity. Maybe they considered making it a reboot at some point, but the game that actually made it to the shelves shows basically no sign of that.

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10 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Was it, though? The game assumes every other preexisting character has essentially the same personality, backstory, relationships, etc as in the "old" continuity. Maybe they considered making it a reboot at some point, but the game that actually made it to the shelves shows basically no sign of that.

I've always thought it was explicitly meant to be a reboot so I guess the burden of proof is on me. Yeah I dunno then.

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10 hours ago, SwissBunny said:

This doesn't explain why Blaze has 2 conflicting backstories. Cream doesn't have that problem, so why does Blaze have it if they were introduced similarly?

Well, I'm speculating that Blaze's concept was designed for an earlier Sonic 06 (that is, a princess from another world/time/somewhere who has fire magic and whose responsibilties made her closed off to others). Sonic Rush's developers got wind of the new princess character and took the protoype. Making the Blaze we know today.

Going further, I speculate Blaze's appearence in 06 was planned to be a bit more developed. The official site's Blaze bio calls her a ruler from another world and her script bio calls her the Sol Emerald guardian while also saying she got mistreated thanks to her fire magic.

 

 

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Why does Sega like taking cues from this game despite how bad it obviously is? You'd think they would be ashamed of such a mess of a game, yet Sonic Forces is taking a lot of elements from it, even having the same writer.....

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6 hours ago, JohnSMan said:

Why does Sega like taking cues from this game despite how bad it obviously is? You'd think they would be ashamed of such a mess of a game, yet Sonic Forces is taking a lot of elements from it, even having the same writer.....

Maybe because they know, despite it being bad, that we're still talking about it like some cult hype!

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6 hours ago, JohnSMan said:

Why does Sega like taking cues from this game despite how bad it obviously is? You'd think they would be ashamed of such a mess of a game, yet Sonic Forces is taking a lot of elements from it, even having the same writer.....

Just because something is bad, doesn't mean it's unsalvageable. There are parts of it that if done right or fixed up, can be salvaged and used in a better game, even if the whole game is terribly flawed. It's pretty much what any smart person would do; take the bits that work while trying to figure out which parts don't work.

Really if you want to criticize anything regarding Sonic Team, it would be their terrible execution of ideas rather than the ideas themselves.

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