Jump to content
thedarkknight

Official Sonic 2006 topic

Recommended Posts

But this all assumes that everyone hated anyone not named Sonic period, which still makes very little sense.

It's not so much that they hated anyone not named Sonic, especially when you factor in how much they loved Shadow before Heroes and had some excitement for his return. But it's that as time went on from where Sonic had a lot of focus in the Adventure, that diminished and Sonic started becoming some what more irrelevant in Heroes, ShTH (even despite it being Shadow's game), and people   became even more vocal about it with Sonic 06.

If people wanted to play as Sonic, that's fine, but I still fail to see how it's the fault of the characters or Sonic Team's choice on giving everyone equal focus(or in Shadow's case shilling the fuck out of him). This just sounds like people complaining about something minor because I'm pretty sure just as many people enjoyed playing as the rest of the cast at that point.

Well for one, it's Sonic's franchise, so by right of being the central character he should be the one getting more of the focus. ShTH is technically the exception, but considering how that game was handled it says a lot about people's reactions towards the next installment that did the same thing.

 

It's a matter of these characters being forced upon you. People wanted to play as Sonic, and had they not be required to play as other characters, they would have been cool with other characters. They were forced to play everyone in SA1, but that was a major 3D title at the time so it wasn't a huge problem. They forced us to play both sides in SA2, but that was also another major 3D title. Heroes gets dicey, as the game became so repetitive playing the same levels with 4 teams, ShTH was handled like shit, and Sonic 06 did all that and worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it assumes that some people preferred Sonic to the rest of the cast. Which I think is pretty well supported by all the complaints about the bloated cast and desires for a Sonic-only game.

 

Most of the complaints about the bloated cast are mainly gameplay related(Genre  roulette, forced replays, etc. etc.). If people prefer Sonic to the rest of the cast, that's perfectly fine, he's the protagonist you're supposed to prefer him over everyone else. What gets me is that people use this a justification for getting rid of everyone not Sonic. Which doesn't(and in fact hasn't) solve the problem at all.

It's not so much that they hated anyone not named Sonic, especially when you factor in how much they loved Shadow before Heroes and had some excitement for his return. But it's that as time went on from where Sonic had a lot of focus in the Adventure, that diminished and Sonic started becoming some what more irrelevant in Heroes, ShTH (even despite it being Shadow's game), and people   became even more vocal about it with Sonic 06.

Well like I said; Heroes is a team game, so it's somewhat justified(especially compared to the Adventure games), and we've already gone over the last two games. I mean the only time I would say Sonic became irrelevant was in 06, where he literally had no importance whatsoever. I think it's people getting vocal over the wrong things; The problem wasn't that Sonic had less focus, it was that the characters who were focused beside him were handled horribly.

 

Well for one, it's Sonic's franchise, so by right of being the central character he should be the one getting more of the focus. ShTH is technically the exception, but considering how that game was handled it says a lot about people's reactions towards the next installment that did the same thing.

 

It's a matter of these characters being forced upon you. People wanted to play as Sonic, and had they not be required to play as other characters, they would have been cool with other characters. They were forced to play everyone in SA1, but that was a major 3D title at the time so it wasn't a huge problem. They forced us to play both sides in SA2, but that was also another major 3D title. Heroes gets dicey, as the game became so repetitive playing the same levels with 4 teams, ShTH was handled like shit, and Sonic 06 did all that and worse.

 

I understand its Sonic's franchise, and that he should be the one who gets primary focus but him not being in the spotlight didn't really contribute to the faulty quality of the games at that time. Shadow didn't suck because Sonic wasn't the main character, and 06 still would have been shit even if Sonic was the main focus.

 

But being forced to play as other characters didn't become a problem until it was apparent that they sucked to play as. Had the gameplay been polished, there wouldn't be much complaining period. Yes, Heroes was repetitive, and 06 handled them like shit, but that's more on how they were used, not the fact that they were being used at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes perfect sense. Heroes throws a whopping 12 characters at you, with a minimum of 3 at once. You get to play one quarter of the game with Sonic. The rest of the time it's a bunch of other characters that people just don't care about. It doesn't matter that the team gimmick was the point of the game, people didn't like it. 

 

It kinda does matter that the team gimmick is the point of the game. Even if we stripped teams down to one, you're not going to get overwhelming focus on Sonic by virtue of the concept the game is working with. Sure, people don't have to like it, but this doesn't prohibit criticism of the inherent basis of the dislike, that apparently being "A game I knew had multiple characters in it didn't focus overwhelmingly one of them."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, people don't have to like it, but this doesn't prohibit criticism of the inherent basis of the dislike, that apparently being "A game I knew had multiple characters in it didn't focus overwhelmingly one of them."

It's not like there aren't multi-character games where one character gets a disproportionate amount of attention. SA, for example. And if you want the games to focus on Sonic and you don't really care for a lot of the other characters, knowing beforehand that Heroes focuses on them isn't going to make your dislike of the game any less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not so much games with multiple characters but rather the specific focus on teamwork, which inherently denotes some idea of a more even focus between multiple parties as they cooperate. If one character is shining above all the others to a significant degree, you're failing the initial premise. I'm also not saying that people cannot dislike the idea of playing with multiple characters. I'm criticizing it as a silly argument to make against a game based on teamwork.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's possible to make a game about teamwork, put most of the focus on one character, and still properly represent the concept of teamwork. Say, have Sonic partner up with a different character in each level. There's still plenty of valid teamwork, just, each team is Sonic+someone else.

And just because a game intends to do something, doesn't mean you can't dislike the game for it. You say "but it's about teamwork", I say, "okay, I accept that, but I don't like the consequences of that".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough, but that doesn't actually serve to invalidate or even undermine the way Sonic Team ultimately did it. It's a game about teamwork where roughly everyone shares equal billing. There's nothing objectively wrong with it, so I don't empathize with it as a serious criticism beyond personal preference. In fact, I find decrying multiple characters in a game about teamwork absolutely silly and ironic. Doesn't mean you're not free to dislike it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's more like it was the last straw for a lot of things. These problems didn't just pop into existence with '06; they had been building up for years. "Shitty friends", for example, is a problem that can be traced back to SA, with Big's fishing, Amy's slow platforming, Knuckles' treasure hunting, etc.

 

What was wrong with Knuckles' treasure hunting? It was nothing short from amazing in Sonic Adventure, I didn't care much for it in SA2, though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a true His World instrumental?

There's an unused and presumably placeholder version that was left on the disc. It's an instrumental of the final version.

And there's also the E3 trailer track. They included it on the OST.

Other than those two, I don't believe an instrumental version exists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's an unused and presumably placeholder version that was left on the disc. It's an instrumental of the final version.

 

 

This also happens to be one of my favorite renditions of His World.

 

The closest things to an actual instrumental of His World from the game, is the menu music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This also happens to be one of my favorite renditions of His World.

 

The closest things to an actual instrumental of His World from the game, is the menu music.

 

Sadly the best part of said menu music is relegated to the multiplayer menu. It's the chorus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with the fact that everyone nearly thinks Sonic 06 is terrible, glitchy and quite silly. I do not think that this was the case. I did not have any problems with the loading times at all. Understandably it is quite a large game, on a console that is basically a computer in itself, and remember Sonic Adventure's loading screens every time you went to different parts of the hub worlds?
I didn't complain. 

I never found or ran into any glitches in the game, I have no idea what people talk about when they mention the term 'glitches' regarding a Sonic game.

One of my friends thinks that Sonic Colours is glitchy when you plug it into the  Nintendo Wii controller, and he uses the Gamecube one for it. I never have this feeling and it seems to me people have just a different feel to these kinds of controls, it has - in my personal experience - nothing to do with glitches.

 

Shadow wasn't a problem for me because again - nothing was a glitch (Though I accidentally did slip off the walls once or twice during  wall jump that was my fault because I got too excited while playing).

 

I remember my friends saying Sonic Riders Zero Gravity on the Wii Mote is awfully confusing and i use the Gamecube controller instead boo hoo hoo. I tried this and found the Gamecube controller a complete blister. The controls were slow to respond and it wasn't as fun as using the Wii Remote and I loved using it better than the Gamecube controller for this game. That means I have a different feel to the Nintendo Gamecube Controller as my other friends don't.

That is all. 

Edited by AzureHedgehog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I did not have any problems with the loading times at all. Understandably it is quite a large game, on a console that is basically a computer in itself, and remember Sonic Adventure's loading screens every time you went to different parts of the hub worlds?

Since the rest is all opinion, I'm just going to argue with this:  Sonic Adventure wasn't nearly as bad though.  Not only were the loading screens considerably shorter, but they weren't nearly as frequent.  Yes, the game had to load for a bit everytime you went to a different part of an Adventure Field, but it wasn't usually a very long loading time.  Not to mention, they rarely had you wait for the game to load between cutscenes.

 

That being said, you could say that it's understandable that the game was large and pushed the limits of the console... except the problem lies in the fact that if you're making a game, it should be completely compatible with the system you're publishing it on!  This is something that needs to stop with games in general.  Back in the day it was acceptable because video game development was still in its infancy, but today, why should there be so many games whose framerate slows down when you're utilizing core gameplay mechanics?  And if something takes ten hours to load and has to stop to load every so many seconds, then maybe what you're doing is either a little too ambitious or just plain wrong.  I'd even go so far as to say that back in 2004, it was inexcusable that Knuckles couldn't finish his sentence when you choose to play as Team Sonic.  It's not like there wasn't a remedy for that.  You could have increased the time before the game transitions, you could have given him a shorter line, you could have given the voice actor another take to do said line faster.  It wasn't a problem that just plain couldn't be fixed.  But then, that is a problem that doesn't affect the gameplay, so we naturally just let it slide.

 

A long time ago, I got a CD-ROM in my cereal (or maybe it was something else?  I don't remember where I got it) for a pinball game based on Monster's Inc.  I put it into my (archaic even for the time) computer being a nut for pinball games and I found it didn't work.  The game lagged so much that it wasn't even worth playing, and that was ignoring how long it took the game to start up and load.  Now, imagine if I were designing that game.  I know now that if i were to use a more modern computer, it would probably run smoother, but if I'm designing a game and I see that on my state-of-the-art computer intended for this kind of work that it doesn't work, then chances are I'm doing something terribly wrong.  Maybe I need to take some things out.  Maybe I need to patch something up.  Whatever the case, it's clearly not meant for what I'm doing and it will probably not for the consumer either.

 

You have testers for a reason, and there's no reason that after being tested that an oversight like long and frequent loading screens should be seen as a minor setback at most.  There's simply no reason that a game in 2006 should have been so terribly incompatible with both the consoles that it's being released on.

Edited by Akito

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with the fact that everyone nearly thinks Sonic 06 is terrible, glitchy and quite silly. I do not think that this was the case. I did not have any problems with the loading times at all. Understandably it is quite a large game, on a console that is basically a computer in itself, and remember Sonic Adventure's loading screens every time you went to different parts of the hub worlds?

I remember responding to this particular point some time ago in a different thread:

 

 

Sonic 06 is a huge game, yes. Yes, it does run on a CPU. However, this is no excuse for the loading times Sonic 06 has. For example, if you take a look at Sonic Unleashed or Sonic Generations, both games that I believe are larger than Sonic 06, both games that do run on a CPU, both handle the loading times better than Sonic 06 does. Sonic 06's loading times aren't necessarily the fault of the system it plays on, but more due to the poor optimization of the game. Furthermore, the duration of the loading screens is not even the complete problem, it's the frequency of them. Do I really have to go through a single line of dialogue only to be greeted with yet another loading screen? Poor design is the other part of the problem of Sonic 06's loading screens.

 

 

The point is, the fact that Sonic 06 is a large game and the fact that it runs on basically a computer does not justify Sonic 06's loading screens whatsoever, especially considering that there are larger, more graphically intense video games out there on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. For example, take a look at recent Sonic games. The two other "mainstream" Sonic titles (Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations) on the HD consoles manage the loading screens much more efficiently than Sonic 06, and if I remember correctly, both games are larger and more graphically intense than Sonic 06. Furthermore, Sonic 06 fails in managing its loading screens efficiently. For example, take a look at the design structure of the loading screens, most notably in the town missions.

 

I think that, in most (maybe all) circumstances, the player should experience (following the loading screen pattern of Sonic's first town mission in his story):

 

1. Talk to the townsperson and accept the mission.

2. Loading screen.

3. Talk to the townsperson again for more details about the mission.

4. Loading screen.

5. Do the actual mission.

6. Finish the mission.

7. Loading screen.

8. Talk to the townsperson again.

9. Rank screen.

10. Loading screen.

11. Finished mission.

 

Oh, and if you die, it goes like this, I believe:

 

1. You potentially die.

2. Loading screen.

3. Talk to the townsperson again.

4. Loading screen.

5. Exit to hubworld.

 

So, if you die and you want to finish the mission, you're treated to four whole loading screens before you can retry the mission.

 

Putting this into other words as well as taking Diogenes's comment on the total length of every Sonic 06 loading screen into consideration, Sonic 06's loading screens are inefficient! It's also extremely choppy design.

 

So, if we take the inefficiency of Sonic 06's loading screens as well the other HD Sonic games' loading screens into consideration, regardless of the fact that Sonic 06 is a large game or the fact that it runs on a computer, Sonic 06's loading screens are ultimately highly inefficient and poorly designed.

Edited by Burnt Ash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I did not have any problems with the loading times at all. Understandably it is quite a large game, on a console that is basically a computer in itself, and remember Sonic Adventure's loading screens every time you went to different parts of the hub worlds?

I didn't complain. 

Well, at least Sonic Adventure's loading screens weren't as long as 06's ( usually taking around 5 seconds).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just that but the loading screens in the levels were only a second or two, not breaking the gameplay flow much.

And this

I never found or ran into any glitches in the game,

You are a very lucky man if this is true for MOST of the game, however there is one "glitch" that is UNAVOIDABLE. Knuckles and Rouge should be able to jump off of the wall. This is a glitch, a simple gameplay mechanic, heck one of the most important for the gameplay of those two characters. Personally I do not own this game, but I have played (and completed) 3 separate versions and watched numerous "lets plays" on the Internet. I don't care if people have methods that "work"

1) they don't

2) you SHOULDN'T need a trick to get off the wall

It is broken and unfinished piece of coding that should not have gone through to the final product.

Edited by Jolt_TH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with the fact that everyone nearly thinks Sonic 06 is terrible, glitchy and quite silly. I do not think that this was the case. I did not have any problems with the loading times at all. Understandably it is quite a large game, on a console that is basically a computer in itself, and remember Sonic Adventure's loading screens every time you went to different parts of the hub worlds?

I didn't complain. 

There's a pretty big difference between a game that just so happens to have load times and a game that has incredibly long and frequent load times.

 

And there are much larger games than 06 that don't have as much loading as 06.

 

holy frick jaghdiuagiudgasiudaiu the game is nearly seven years old WHY ARE WE STILL ARGUING ABOUT THIS

 

*complains about that fact whilst contributing to said argument*

 

i'm totally not a hypocrite you guise

Edited by Ragna the Bloodedge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fine if the glitches don't bother you. The original Playstation 1 version of Tomb Raider was glitchy beyond belief yet it was still a great game for its time, and I still enjoy playing today. But saying you played through Sonic 06 and never encountered any glitches either means 1) you weren't paying attention 2) we disagree about what the word "glitch" means or 3) you never reached the first mach speed section where you encounter the game's first unavoidable glitch (Sonic's wall-jump animation doesn't work in mach speed sections - yet it worked fine in pre-release trailer footage).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not have any problems with the loading times at all. Understandably it is quite a large game, on a console that is basically a computer in itself, and remember Sonic Adventure's loading screens every time you went to different parts of the hub worlds?

 

"quite a large game" is no excuse at all, for respectable companies like SEGA.

We have many enormous games that have convenient loading times.

Neither it is an excuse that it's on a 'console', games are still being released on the same consoles until today (which are obviously today's generation consoles.)

 

And what, Are you serious? Comparing Sonic the Hedgehog's loading screens with Sonic Adventure's?

Sonic Adventure was hardly the first (real) 3D Sonic game, and yet the loading times were not so bad, nope, they actually weren't bad at all.

 

So what do Sonic Colors and Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, and the Wii controllers have to do with Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)?

I really don't remember Sonic the Hedgehog being released for the Wii. Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fine if the glitches don't bother you. The original Playstation 1 version of Tomb Raider was glitchy beyond belief yet it was still a great game for its time, and I still enjoy playing today. But saying you played through Sonic 06 and never encountered any glitches either means 1) you weren't paying attention 2) we disagree about what the word "glitch" means or 3) you never reached the first mach speed section where you encounter the game's first unavoidable glitch (Sonic's wall-jump animation doesn't work in mach speed sections - yet it worked fine in pre-release trailer footage).

Or 4) straight up lying.

 

There's no way you could avoid the glitch with Knuckles/Rouge sticking to the wall and you having to fight to get them unstuck off of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.