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Official Sonic 2006 topic


thedarkknight

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I'm replaying Sonic 06. I just completed Silver's story without getting a game over once (although the game did gift me three lives for no reason which came in very handy tongue.png). In Sonic's story I got about four game overs. 

 

As shit as Silver's gameplay is, if your careful you can get through most of his levels only losing a few lives each time, and there are plenty of extra lives item boxes to find if you search hard enough. The end of Kingdom Valley being an exception. The cheapness in some of the level design and enemy placement is bullshit.

 

Anyway, just Shadow's story left to do.

 

That's not artificial difficulty, that's just bad programming/twitchy controls.

 

 

The enemy placement and obstacles are really cheap. Doesn't matter if you have played this game ten times and are an expert, you will still die due to something happening out of your control.

 

Call it what you will, cheap or artificial. It's grossly unfair and skill alone won't save you.

Edited by -Bender- Wolverine
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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting. Can Blaze defeat Iblis Phase 3?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3iSPAsMiG0

So, she can.

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Personally, I think most of the problems people have with Unleashed's daytime stages are really the players fault.

The one thing I hate is people throwing around 'artificial difficulty' because they saw a game over screen when they were going too fast and wanted to be spoon fed how to get through the levels without dying or without losing a single ring.

 

This is something alot of people have trouble with today. So many people get mad whe the game may be a bit too difficult for them or not spoon feeding them the game like so many games want to do today. These same people get so mad at older games because of their difficulty and them trying to make you figure out what you have to do instead of just making you walk on a straight path all the time. People almost invent high difficulty in games that don't really have them because they are so used to games telling you word for word how to complete sections, or because they just aren't good gamers and blame the game for it.

 

Sonic 06 does have cheap death areas and glitches that can cause you to easily lose lives, but Unleashed didn't really have these from what I remember. I'm sure there may be some cheap areas in the game, but it was nothing like 06's difficulty.

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Cheap areas in Unleashed? Well.... sometimes the running up the Skyscraper [scamper] part throws you off for no reason like in the majority of wall-running of 06. But that's all I can think of.

I'm one of these people who don't care for difficulty of games. I just buy them to have fun, and if that means laughing my head off at the ridiculous physhics of Wheelspin on Wii, I'm game.

Edited by DarkRula
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Okie Dokie guys, this started as my own thread, but it was fairly taken off for being a mirror thread. So, here's my point:

 

Would the world be a better place without Sonic 2006

 

I don't mean in terms of canon, because it never happened, whoops (top-quality story telling at its best). 

 

No, my question is: would you rather the game Sonic 2006 was erased from existence and was never released.

Now stay with me, this question isn't as baffling as it first seems.

 

On one level, it's absolutely understandable to want this game erased from the very fabric of the universe. It is undeniably awful, and even people who like it admit the game is simply terrible. Sonic 2006 is a major factor for Sonic's reputation heading straight into the gutter. What's the most embarrassing moment? SonicXElise, Sonic getting stabbed in the back, the mind-blowing amount of bugs, the godawful story, the horrific hub worlds, the ridiculous side-missions, the excruciating load times, the outright broken and meager multiplayer, the downright pathetic bosses (with Silver's boss fight contender for worst moment in any game) and many, many more.

 

I think it's hard to argue against one fundamental point: Sonic 2006 is one bad game. In fact, I'd go as far to say it's overrated by critics.

 

However, would it be better if the game never happened?

 

Let's be honest, SEGA was not exactly having a great track record. Sonic Heroes was okay to mediocre, and despite being more focused than either Adventure game, never reached the peaks of either. Shadow the Hedgehog was an absolute travesty and already tarnished Sonic's reputation considerably. The Sonic Riders games weren't exactly fantastic either and both Sonic Rivals titles had massive problems. Whilst Secret Rings was released after 2006, it was in development at the same time. That game was also very, very poor.

 

To put it simply, Sonic had a hard time for a very long time, and if it wasn't for a complete trainwreck like Sonic 2006, would the Blue Hedgehog have ever risen from the dead?

 

Now I'm about to say something very controversial..so here goes.

 

Sonic 2006 killed the Adventure formula...and that is a good thing.

 

Let's be honest, both Sonic Adventure titles have aged very poorly. Sonic Adventure has aged better, but it is still ridden with many problems. I think most would agree there are some very good ideas, but they are not fully fleshed out and the game is incredibly flawed.

 

Sonic 2006 is essentially a very bad Sonic Adventure 3. It's not my vision of what a Sonic Adventure 3 should be...but it is basically Sonic Adventure 3. Many reviews compared the game to Sonic Adventure and it was clear for everyone to see. The game was so bad, it left many scarred from the game philosophy. SEGA knew they fucked up, and that they desperately needed to change the Sonic formula.

 

Enter Sonic Unleashed and Sonic 4. Both games coming off as an intentional movement to get away from Sonic 2006's gamestyle. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic 4 were definitely not perfect (and I would call both very poor games) yet arguably both have led to Sonic Generations because, for the first time since Sonic Adventure, both games had an excellent idea to build off of(sans Werehog). Sonic Generations has lead straight into Sonic Lost World, which could potentially be the best Sonic game since Sonic and Knuckles

 

So, I would go as far as to say that Sonic 2006 ended the dark days of Sonic. If it wasn't for such a trainwreck it is highly possible that Sonic Team would forever put out mediocre titles, because they were never threatened enough to radically change the formula. Sure, Sonic Heroes, Shadow and 2006 play very differently to the Adventure titles, but they have the same basic gameplay engine and game-style. Just done very badly with stupid gimmicks (Team-Play, guns e.t.c). Sonic Team seemed to be stuck on making mediocre games based off of Adventure 2's game-style.

 

So, despite the fact Sonic 2006 was utterly awful, would we truly be better off without it?

 

 

Also, as a sidenote, imagine living in a world without the unintentional comic brilliance of Sonic 2006. I wouldn't want to live in that world!

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Was tryping something earlier, but I'll try and remember some of the things typed earlier for a reply to this. I did think this was a bit on the negative side, since I dont think the games are all THAT bad, but do have problems.

 

When it comes to Sonic06, I think the game should have honestly eventually been called by us, Sonic07 and had all the glitches that may have been ironed out if they had had the proper time to finish the game. I doubt the story or levels and such would have been that different, but if there were alot fewer glitches, I think the game would be more critisized based on the story and such instead of how buggy the game is overall. Its not a BAD game, but it could be alot better. I think the game did need to happen to help show that some changes needed to be made, but I think the blow to Sega and Sonic wouldnt have been as bad if they had had the proper time to finish the game like they wanted insstead of it being rushed like it was. When I first played the game, I really didn't notice as much wrong with it as I do now that people have pointed things out now. It just shows that being a fan can make you overlook some lesser things to get your sonic experience out of the game.

 

So, I dont think the game shouldn't have happened, but it is good that they are making sure the quality of the game doesn't get to the buggy level that game is anymore. The long load times, the random deaths and just other random glitchy things don't really appear anymore in the games. The length of the games could still be improved these days, but the quality is definately something that has improved massively over time due to the game.

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Was tryping something earlier, but I'll try and remember some of the things typed earlier for a reply to this. I did think this was a bit on the negative side, since I dont think the games are all THAT bad, but do have problems.

 

When it comes to Sonic06, I think the game should have honestly eventually been called by us, Sonic07 and had all the glitches that may have been ironed out if they had had the proper time to finish the game. I doubt the story or levels and such would have been that different, but if there were alot fewer glitches, I think the game would be more critisized based on the story and such instead of how buggy the game is overall. Its not a BAD game, but it could be alot better. I think the game did need to happen to help show that some changes needed to be made, but I think the blow to Sega and Sonic wouldnt have been as bad if they had had the proper time to finish the game like they wanted insstead of it being rushed like it was. When I first played the game, I really didn't notice as much wrong with it as I do now that people have pointed things out now. It just shows that being a fan can make you overlook some lesser things to get your sonic experience out of the game.

 

So, I dont think the game shouldn't have happened, but it is good that they are making sure the quality of the game doesn't get to the buggy level that game is anymore. The long load times, the random deaths and just other random glitchy things don't really appear anymore in the games. The length of the games could still be improved these days, but the quality is definately something that has improved massively over time due to the game.

 

You think if the game had more development time it would have been better? Well, I agree on that.

 

However, I still think the game would have been very bad, even with additional development time. The game had fundamentally broken ideas e.t.c.

 

Also, sorry if I came off as negative. That's not my goal at all. If anyone defends Sonic 2006 or, 'god-forbid', enjoys it,  then I won't try to embarras them :) .

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You think if the game had more development time it would have been better? Well, I agree on that.

 

However, I still think the game would have been very bad, even with additional development time. The game had fundamentally broken ideas e.t.c.

 

Also, sorry if I came off as negative. That's not my goal at all. If anyone defends Sonic 2006 or, 'god-forbid', enjoys it,  then I won't try to embarras them smile.png .

 

Well, in what ways was the game still broken? I'm glad you agree that the game would likely have been better playability wise if it had been Sonic07 and had its glitches fixed, but in what way is it still broken then? Do you mean the story line with Elise? The autorun sections? The characters in general? Or a mix of everything? I still overall feel the game is an OK game, but it is by no means a great sonic game like I would classify Unleashed, since its one of my favorites of current gen.

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If '06 isn't a bad game, then what is?

 

I would agree with this.

 

I don't mind if anyone likes the game. After all, I like Sonic R, and that's terrible.

 

But even if you like it, you need to admit to the fact it is, essentially, poor.

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If '06 isn't a bad game, then what is?

 

It's a horrible piece of gaming software that is plagued by gameplay bugs, questionable programming and incoherence?

 

Just for the record, I'm reading about its development on Sonic Retro; I'm sure many of you have read it already.

Edited by TheChaosBlue
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Well, in what ways was the game still broken? I'm glad you agree that the game would likely have been better playability wise if it had been Sonic07 and had its glitches fixed, but in what way is it still broken then? Do you mean the story line with Elise? The autorun sections? The characters in general? Or a mix of everything? I still overall feel the game is an OK game, but it is by no means a great sonic game like I would classify Unleashed, since its one of my favorites of current gen.

 

Well, I think the story is truly terrible, and that no extra time would finish that.

 

I think the levels are poorly designed, and are like bad versions of Sonic Adventure levels. I don't think the layout of the levels would have changed with more developer time.

 

I think the Mach Speed Sections would always have been terrible. Losing rings when you hit an obatacle is a stupid idea, and no polishing would fix that.

 

I think the bosses all had terrible ideas. 

 

I don't think the alternate playstyles like Tails, Rouge, Omega, Shadow's vehicles e.t.c or good ideas. 

 

You get the drift smile.png .

Edited by Phoenix Flame
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I don't find a lot of the theory underlying the Adventure games fundamentally broken so much as time simply has not been kind to the objective programming underlying these games. One thing I think that Sonic 06 specifically was onto was the way it actually did away with genre roulette, but still had enough movement and goal-oriented differences between the characters to justify their inclusion and vary up the experience of playing the same stages over and over to make them feel a bit fresher. This is a really neat idea among others, being a happy medium between strict reskins and characters completely divorced from a traditional platforming experience, that frankly it's a downright shame that we've gotten so used to bashing the Adventure games that Sega's never really going to take the time to perhaps explore those ideas again. Compared to a lot of the interesting stuff these games were doing, I have to tell you it's hard to look forward to the future with unfettered optimism.

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 One thing I think that Sonic 06 specifically was onto was the way it actually did away with genre roulette, but still had enough movement and goal-oriented differences between the characters to justify their inclusion and vary up the experience of playing the same stages over and over to make them feel a bit fresher.

 

That is true, but the execution of the idea wasn't exactly great. I despise Tails' Dummy Rings with a passion, and Sonic 2006 deepened this idea even further. Same thing with Rouge's gamestyle.

 

I think Shadow's vehicles was a daft idea. As was Omega's abilities and moves (they had awful range, might as well have given him Gamma's shooting mechanics if they wanted to go in that direction). As for Amy...her gameplay was truly horrible. Literally Metal Gear Sonic (actually it's not...Metal Gear is actually good).

 

did like Blaze's gameplay though!

 

I do agree with your general point though. If Sonic had his friends in his game, they should have his general game style smile.png .

Edited by Phoenix Flame
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That is true, but the execution of the idea wasn't exactly great. I despise Tails' Dummy Rings with a passion, and Sonic 2006 deepened this idea even further. Same thing with Rouge's gamestyle.

 

I think Shadow's vehicles was a daft idea. As was Omega's abilities and moves (they had awful range, might as well have given him Gamma's shooting mechanics if they wanted to go in that direction). As for Amy...her gameplay was truly horrible. Literally Metal Gear Sonic.

 

did like Blaze's gameplay though!

 

I do agree with your general point though. If Sonic had his friends in his game, they should have his general game style smile.png .

 

Wow, this topic is getting a bit more depressing the more I read it. It honestly sounds like you hate almost everything about this game and other things in general. I'll say it again, that I'm thankful for any sonic game that I can get. The fanbase continues to bash on the games over and over and complaining seems to be all alot of people do anymore. As I said, I do agree that some elements of the game weren't great and did need tweeking, but saying oh this is horrible and that should be scraped and everything like that just sounds like you wish Sonic had stopped making games and such after this.

 

I know I may be going a bit far with that, but I just in general try and keep a positive outlook on these things, since I worry enough that the series may end or that characters may be kicked out and other things people want to continue to whine over instead of trying to be positive about things. Like when it comes to the characters, I welcome more and more characters in the games, because we need more than the simple run to the goal ring stuff we are getting from the recent games. It gets really bland fast.

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Quite the understatement that the execution of anything in Sonic 06 wasn't great, but I don't believe that inherently means there was nothing worth salvaging or exploring in a different way from that game or the actual Adventure titles. It's great that we've moved on to far greener pastures regardless of whether or not that was a direct result of Sonic 06's sheer awfulness, but I'm not moving on under the mindset that we haven't lost some interesting ideas as a result of complete abandonment and subsequent shunning of the formula and time period.

 

For example, do you know how awesome it would be if we could take ShtH's idea of branching pathways and, instead of tying it to boring missions, tied it to level design instead? What if you went on the high path in a stage, and reached an entirely new story progression and set of levels divorced from the ones you could only reach on the lower path? It would then follow too that we could see some real interesting specialization in stages if Sonic Team did that, as you would have to make sure that different areas to go were marked accordingly. So, perhaps the higher level design in a forest stage is composed of canopies and tree tops, and if you fall to the bottom, you're on a Hilltop Zone-like forest floor, complete with caves. This would be extremely awesome to experience, but there's not going to be any demand for this kind of exploration because good fucking luck convincing anyone to look at the entire era and their games with anything less than contempt.

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Wow, this topic is getting a bit more depressing the more I read it. It honestly sounds like you hate almost everything about this game and other things in general. I'll say it again, that I'm thankful for any sonic game that I can get. The fanbase continues to bash on the games over and over and complaining seems to be all alot of people do anymore. As I said, I do agree that some elements of the game weren't great and did need tweeking, but saying oh this is horrible and that should be scraped and everything like that just sounds like you wish Sonic had stopped making games and such after this.

 

I know I may be going a bit far with that, but I just in general try and keep a positive outlook on these things, since I worry enough that the series may end or that characters may be kicked out and other things people want to continue to whine over instead of trying to be positive about things. Like when it comes to the characters, I welcome more and more characters in the games, because we need more than the simple run to the goal ring stuff we are getting from the recent games. It gets really bland fast.

 

Hey man, don't get sad :( .

 

I do hate the game, but I also love it for the funny memories. Besides, those dark days of Sonic are long gone.

 

love the majority of Sonic. Sonic 2006 is the exception to the rule. I certainly don't want the Sonic series to stop making games. I'm probably going to buy a Wii U just for Sonic Lost World!

 

Hell, I even love Sonic Adventure, even though I admit it has aged awfully. I still boot it up and play Windy Valley every now and then!

 

Why don't we be friends aye :D .

 

I know it can get depressing if you are slightly fond of Sonic 2006, since the majority of the fanbase hate it, but don't let others tell you what to think!

Quite the understatement that the execution of anything in Sonic 06 wasn't great, but I don't believe that inherently means there was nothing worth salvaging or exploring in a different way from that game or the actual Adventure titles. It's great that we've moved on to far greener pastures regardless of whether or not that was a direct result of Sonic 06's sheer awfulness, but I'm not moving on under the mindset that we haven't lost some interesting ideas as a result of complete abandonment and subsequent shunning of the formula and time period.

 

For example, do you know how awesome it would be if we could take ShtH's idea of branching pathways and, instead of tying it to boring missions, tied it to level design instead? What if you went on the high path in a stage, and reached an entirely new story progression and set of levels divorced from the ones you could only reach on the lower path? It would then follow too that we could see some real interesting specialization in stages if Sonic Team did that, as you would have to make sure that different areas to go were marked accordingly. So, perhaps the higher level design in a forest stage is composed of canopies and tree tops, and if you fall to the bottom, you're on a Hilltop Zone-like forest floor, complete with caves. This would be extremely awesome to experience, but there's not going to be any demand for this kind of exploration because good fucking luck convincing anyone to look at the entire era and their games with anything less than contempt.

 

That's a pretty interesting idea! I'm not sure if I agree with that idea, since I like progression to be quite linear (albeit the levels not), but I can see why people would dig that idea.

 

I do admit, the progression in Shadow the Hedgehog was definitely an interesting concept.

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Hey man, don't get sad sad.png .

 

I do hate the game, but I also love it for the funny memories. Besides, those dark days of Sonic are long gone.

 

love the majority of Sonic. Sonic 2006 is the exception to the rule. I certainly don't want the Sonic series to stop making games. I'm probably going to buy a Wii U just for Sonic Lost World!

 

Hell, I even love Sonic Adventure, even though I admit it has aged awfully. I still boot it up and play Windy Valley every now and then!

 

Why don't we be friends aye biggrin.png .

 

I know it can get depressing if you are slightly fond of Sonic 2006, since the majority of the fanbase hate it, but don't let others tell you what to think!

 

That's a pretty interesting idea! I'm not sure if I agree with that idea, since I like progression to be quite linear (albeit the levels not), but I can see why people would dig that idea.

 

I do admit, the progression in Shadow the Hedgehog was definitely an interesting concept.

 

Believe me, I'm glad most of those days are gone now. When I first started getting online long ago and even when I originall game to this website back in 07 or somewhere around there, there was nothing but bashing and people angry all the time on many forums out there. Its like the game struck some kind of nerve that changed alot of the people from rather nice pleasant people into rage filled maniacs for a time being. I'm so glad most of that has cooled off and people seem to be rather nice again these days, you included with that reply right there.

 

I'm likely going to be buying a WiiU just for the game as well, since I wouldn't be otherwise, at least not at the moment of course. Never have liked jumping onto new consoles too soon. But yes, I know the older games may not be the greatest in the world, but they are still our sonic games and hopefully remain gems in their own eyes for a time to come. smile.png

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I don't find a lot of the theory underlying the Adventure games fundamentally broken so much as time simply has not been kind to the objective programming underlying these games. One thing I think that Sonic 06 specifically was onto was the way it actually did away with genre roulette, but still had enough movement and goal-oriented differences between the characters to justify their inclusion and vary up the experience of playing the same stages over and over to make them feel a bit fresher. This is a really neat idea among others, being a happy medium between strict reskins and characters completely divorced from a traditional platforming experience, that frankly it's a downright shame that we've gotten so used to bashing the Adventure games that Sega's never really going to take the time to perhaps explore those ideas again. Compared to a lot of the interesting stuff these games were doing, I have to tell you it's hard to look forward to the future with unfettered optimism.

Honestly, generally badly programmed gameplay aside, my main issue with how this game handled its playable characters is how there are few stages where you could play as your character of choice all the way through. When I want to play as, say, Sonic, I want to play as just Sonic, not Tails or Silver when I'm halfway into the level. That's just not cool, and I'm honestly glad that they never pulled that nonsense in any other game since, Eggmanland in Sonic Unleashed HD aside.

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I get the sentiment, but I can't inherently agree with it in every context. Certainly if I had a game where choosing a character was an active choice of mine- and a meaningful one, in that different characters played differently enough for me to forge preferences about who I wanted to play- then certainly, I might be annoyed if I was switched to a character I didn't want to play as. But what if I go into a game knowing that at some point I won't be playing as a default all the time, like in Heroes, or what if it's done in a way that's smooth or interesting or simply has gameplay that makes the switch itself not a big deal, like in Eggmanland, or even Unleashed's hubs where you have to progress time to properly explorse? My point being, I don't think being forced to use different characters at different points in time is inherently wrong. If anything, I imagine it could lead to some interesting game design under the right developer.

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Honestly, generally badly programmed gameplay aside, my main issue with how this game handled its playable characters is how there are few stages where you could play as your character of choice all the way through. When I want to play as, say, Sonic, I want to play as just Sonic, not Tails or Silver when I'm halfway into the level. That's just not cool, and I'm honestly glad that they never pulled that nonsense in any other game since, Eggmanland in Sonic Unleashed HD aside.

 

There was Cannon's Core in SA2 as well. I kind of like that as a level gimmick, which is partly why End of the World pisses me off less than most people (at least, until Shadow's section which is basically broken and can't be cheesed like the also near broken sections Rouge and Knuckles have to deal with), but during the game I agree, especially when you're forced to be Silver in everyone's stories or play as Shadow and Sonic, only while Silver's sections in the other stories go on for a good few minutes, Shadow's section is just beating up some monsters and Sonic's lasts about a minute and is mostly automated. They really wanted to shove the Silver gameplay down our throats.

 

I'd like to see a spiritual successor to both Aquatic Base and White Acropolis. Aquatic Base had that ambient, tragic feel while White Acropolis was dark and heavy and the closest thing we've got really is White Park in Sonic 4, which, while a theme park and not a base, has a similar christmassy night time feel that I kind of like.

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It cringes for me to say this, but the realistic art design of this game is somewhat growing on me. By "Somewhat", I mean the CGI cutscenes, Eggman's robots, and some of the level visual designs.

 

The opening and ending cutscenes are gorgeous, paying a lot of attention to detail, which I naturally like, and Sonic showing up in them doesn't look too akward compared to the in game cutscenes. Same goes for Eggman's robots: I get where the complaints about them being boring come from, but they look sleek and threatening. Tropical Jungle, Kingdom Valley, and Wave Ocean are all supposed to look a lot less cartoony than your standard Sonic level, and I actually think they're gorgeous. Not on the level of Unleashed, but they still look really good.

 

I'm still thankful they dropped the "what if Sonic was in the real world" BS after this game, though.

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Interesting. Can Blaze defeat Iblis Phase 3?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3iSPAsMiG0

So, she can.

Sonic in that video...

 

"Oof. uagh. UAGH! UAGH! UAGH! oof. OOAGH. OOAH. OOAH. oof. UAGH."

 

I died.

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It cringes for me to say this, but the realistic art design of this game is somewhat growing on me. By "Somewhat", I mean the CGI cutscenes, Eggman's robots, and some of the level visual designs.

 

The opening and ending cutscenes are gorgeous, paying a lot of attention to detail, which I naturally like, and Sonic showing up in them doesn't look too akward compared to the in game cutscenes. Same goes for Eggman's robots: I get where the complaints about them being boring come from, but they look sleek and threatening. Tropical Jungle, Kingdom Valley, and Wave Ocean are all supposed to look a lot less cartoony than your standard Sonic level, and I actually think they're gorgeous. Not on the level of Unleashed, but they still look really good.

 

I'm still thankful they dropped the "what if Sonic was in the real world" BS after this game, though.

 

I think alot of people and the developers are getting over the sonic in modern times concept yes. That's why you have the story book games which put him in various fantasy ancient settings, or another example, the comics taking place on our world, but far in the future instead of in our current day and time like 06 almost looked like it could be from.

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There was Cannon's Core in SA2 as well. I kind of like that as a level gimmick, which is partly why End of the World pisses me off less than most people (at least, until Shadow's section which is basically broken and can't be cheesed like the also near broken sections Rouge and Knuckles have to deal with), but during the game I agree, especially when you're forced to be Silver in everyone's stories or play as Shadow and Sonic, only while Silver's sections in the other stories go on for a good few minutes, Shadow's section is just beating up some monsters and Sonic's lasts about a minute and is mostly automated. They really wanted to shove the Silver gameplay down our throats.

 

Considering Sonic 06 was released on 360 and PS3, I think it would've been a great idea for them to have created a title update to fix at least SOME of the mistakes seen in those levels.

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