Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Indigo Rush]

Apparently, before negative reception came crashing down on the game, 06 was set to reboot the Sonic universe.

Of course the stupidity of the plothole is only strengthened since Generations acknowledges 06 as canon.

 

Well, they did a fine job getting that across. All this time I thought this was just continuing on from Shadow's game. 

 

And what's even funnier - the story ends with the entire events of the game being erased. Not as a retcon, but within the context of the game itself. That's a reboot within a reboot. Who even does that?! Also, as you said, Sonic Generations still acknowledged it.

 

This series, man. It's amazing Sonic even survived '06.

[KHCast]

You know the funny thing? I'd still find this plot crappy even if it made sense. It'd still have horrible dialogue, boring characters,SILVER, useless characters, hilariously melodramatic FF-esque moments,etc.

And that's just the story segment!

Also yeah, if you assume we here treat the stories after 06 like works of art, and never crap on them, you're mistaken.(COUGH!GENERATIONS!COUGH!)

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

 

 

Actually I'm pretty much just Answering the questions of many who have took the time to question my opinion. Even if I am arguing in circles (which I'm not) than that just goes to show that theforum is doing it's job, holding up a discussion.

 

A. Yes you are, as evidenced by your own posts, comrade.

 

B. The forum is for meaningful discussion. Just because this is a forum doesn't mean you get to keep everyone trapped in a circular argument that you'll never concede. It's just a waste of time to rile everyone up for a discussion that they arbitrarily can never win.

 

You really need to stop the condescending nonsense and really think through the arguments presented. And stop dragging everyone into the mired swamp of hypotheticals, because no one's going to win an argument based on what could maybe possibly be.

 

Understand that I don't like railing against people, comrade, and I can't say I'd rather you stop posting or anything. But know that you're behavior here is making it very hard to side with you.

[Iggy]

Posted Yesterday, 08:42 PM

Rusty Spy, on 13 Feb 2014 - 7:47 PM, said:

I see. So you accept this story because you make you're own interpretations on the character's actions and motives as a means to fill in the blanks that the story leaves?

Hmm, I guess I can't fault you if that's your reasoning for liking the story.

What I CAN say though is that this doesn't make the story any better because your assumptions and interpretations aren't anymore valid than the next guys, and doesn't justify these blanks existing in the story to begin with. They are simply your own ideas that you use to explain away the flaws and oversights the story leaves.

If you're insinuating that the flames of disaster would die if Elise died.... then why didn't the Duke of Soleanna seal Iblis inside HIMSELF, when he was seconds away from dieing. Blaze already demonstrated that people can seal Iblis inside themselves and don't need a third party to do it for them.

If anything, Elise nearly killing herself is probably the dumbest thing anyone could ever do, cause the only other thing that could happen if she dies is Iblis getting released and destroying the world... Which is EXACTLY how Silver's future becomes ruined, when Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are in the future and find out that Eggman's battleship explodes, killing Elise onboard.

No I don't make my own interpretations, I concur them being referring to earlier or later parts of the game. It's all justified. But if you think about it people are declining this game's story because of how THEY fill in the blanks, sometimes none at all. But what

I don't understand is how people can't except this game for plot holes, yet later games ENTIRELY IGNORE parts of the plot that need to be explained. Every game written by Pontac and Graff have these problems (Colors, Generations, and Lost World) yet it's A-OK to everyone else. What a load..

(As as much as I say it people CONTINUE to ignore my statements -__-

My point exactly. Anyone who judges Sonic 06's story is based on THEIR assumptions and interpretations. Either way the plot makes sense. It almost seems like it's a puzzle and some people are just to lazy to put it together. All the plot holes except maybe 2 can be thoroughly exaplined and as such isn't considered a plot hole. The only 2 I can think of with Sonic 06's complex story telling is the Blue Chaos Emerald, and... I know there's another one, but I can't think of it... That's a pretty good job since I can pick out plotholes in Sonic Colors' story even though it has such a thin storyline.

...Because he was dieing. Unless you meant it the other way around and had a typo.

If that is the case, Then I'm sure that the Duke doesn't know EVERYTHING and he assumed that sealing Iblis inside Elise would keep it from awakenning even if she died. I mean Dr. Eggman knew that the ark was made by his grandfather but he didn't know that Gerald would have something instore once all of the emeralds were collected.

No, she never knew at all that killing herself would cause it to be released.

Jovahexeon, on 13 Feb 2014 - 7:41 PM, said:

Buddy, if that's all you think that's all there is to Zelda's resume, you're in for a mother-lode debunking curb stomp.

Keep in mind that almost every Zelda is part of a different timeline and there is rarely a case in which 2 games feature the same zelda. So overall she doesn't do as much as she should have.

SheWhoRantsTooMuch, on 13 Feb 2014 - 7:56 PM, said:

Actually, she doesn't only help Link in Wind Waker. She also defended him with light arrows in Twilight Princess, and acted as a guide character in Spirit Tracks. Guide characters do a lot of pointing out weaknesses in enemies, so her role was quite helpful to Link in this title as well. She disgusted herself as Shiek and taught Link all the warping songs so that she could help him without risking getting caught by Ganondorf. I don't know about anyone else, but I used those songs quite a bit in that game, and I don't think referring to them as helpful would be too much of an exaggeration in the slightest. Also, if Elise had succeeded in killing herself, wouldn't she release the Iblis Trigger? I can't remember if she knew her death would release it at that point in time or not, so I can't comment much on that.

I said she helps him in battle twice. Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, every other case she either sits there for a presumably long amount of time waiting for a "barrier" of some sort to go down before she could do anything. Either that or she would just sit there unconscious, captivated, or trapped in another room. Pretty useless for someone who is very prominent in the abilities of Magic.

Yea, Spirit tracks Zelda was pretty helpful wasn't she? Especially as a Phantom Knight. (If that's what it was called...)

As Shiek I must say she was a bit useless... although the songs were helpful she didn't really do anything besides that. I mean... what did she do other than teach link those songs? Where did she go? Back to a hut to read a magazine? There's a plothole that no one seems to mention. Another thing that was a bit unwise for the seventh sage to do was both reveal herself as ganondorf, she could've just told link that she was zelda. I doubt link is a stubborn person. That in turn caused Ganondorf to find her which would cause the world to be screwed over if link had died. But y'know No big deal, everyone and their grandmother can have plotholes, but not 06, Oh No...

She didn't know that her death would cause the releasing of Iblis. I mean how could she? If she's dead than she's unconsious and I'd like to think that unconscious

It might never be said what Shiek does when they're not teaching us song, but I personally wouldn't consider it a plot hole because honestly, it's easy to assume that they're just running around and maybe fighting monsters? They're trying to fight Bongo Bongo when you encounter them in the Kakariko Village, so it wouldn't be too hard to assume that they spend most of their spare time doing something like this. Maybe she changed from Shiek to Zelda right in front of Link because she had a moment of carelessness and just really wanted him to see her? Either way, if these can even be considered plot holes, then they're not nearly as obvious or consistent as the ones in '06. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think I can argue much longer. Even talking about Zelda isn't nearly as fun as usual when it's done like this.

[Semi-colon e]

I always figured that Mephiles can't fuse with future!Iblis and that's the reason he tries to get the present day one released. The future one is just a big ol' demon Mephiles doesn't try to do anything with, but the present release is the flames he eventually merges with. At least, that's how I rationalise it, the game should have explained though. Would have made Mephiles's plan less retarded.

 

I find it odd that people are more concerned with a time travel plot full of holes than the scene where Sonic abandons Amy to get some princess poontang from someone he barely knows, especially leaving Amy (a long time friend or someone he at least cares about) with someone that he himself could not beat. That is so out of character and jarring it's just disgusting. Sonic would try and figure out what was going on in the central plot too and not just concern himself with a princess. He doesn't even comment on Mephiles and just ignores it in Crisis City! You'd think he'd go "Ah, that Shadow like dude sent this Silver prick back to kill me, that's not right! I need to fix this", but no, he just wants Elise for no reason at all other than "because the game says he does". Maybe he doesn't care that he's the villain to Silver (Black Knight supported that Sonic just does what he does for kicks and that he doesn't mind being the bad guy) but he'd surely be a bit concerned about someone trying to kill him every few minutes.

[Salamander]

Seems like one big step towards making the plot make more sense would be to write either Iblis or Mephiles out of all the scenes set in the future.

 

If we take the idea that Iblis dies if its host dies, maybe that could be exactly what happened after the Egg Carrier crashes, and Mephiles goes ballistic and kills everyone and ruins the world, but without having the power to absorb all of space-time.  And then his manipulation of the plot is actually a convoluted plan to save Elise and then make her cry so he can achieve his original objective.  He wouldn't even need his overpowered time-travel abilities in this variant, although whether he's a credible world-destroyer is up for grabs.  Hmm... if you take Iblis out of the future, then you basically take Iblis out of the plot altogether.  That might be of advantage when trying to prune the plot into something more streamlined - just replace it with full-on Solaris.

 

Alternatively, let's say that Mephiles isn't around in the future, though that raises difficulties with how he's able to get Silver to do anything.  Maybe he's successfully trapped in the sceptre again or something but can whisper ti people from within it.  Iblis gets released when Elise dies / cries and dies, but with no Mephiles around it's just an unbeatable demon rampaging about, and a more plausible sort of hazard than Mephiles, who is tough but not unstoppable.  But then we have the question of why Mephiles just doesn't get someone to smash the sceptre.  You could make that a more complicated process, but the last thing the plot needs is to be made more complicated - in contrast to Generations, where the problem is that it's not complicated enough.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who enjoys trying to rewrite the plot of '06 into something that at least makes sense, even if it's still not good.  It's probably still more enjoyable than actually playing the game, at any rate.

 

 

I find it odd that people are more concerned with a time travel plot full of holes than the scene where Sonic abandons Amy to get some princess poontang from someone he barely knows, especially leaving Amy (a long time friend or someone he at least cares about) with someone that he himself could not beat.

 

I think the broad strokes of the plot are just more memorable.  Shoddy characterisation is probably an easier error to fix than fundamental flaws in the game's entire mythology.  That and Elise honestly gets kidnapped and endangered so many times that they all just sort of blur together... there's something else that could be neatened up.  There's a bit where Amy rescues her only for her to be immediately kidnapped again, right?

[Indigo Rush]

Actually, the chaos emerald that Elise had was an emerald Silver gave her back when he and Shadow time traveled back to the past. It was an emerald that Silver took from the present and left in the past, effectively causing 8 chaos emeralds to exist. 7 scattered across the world, and 1 duplicate from the future that Elise holds onto for 10 years, who then gives it to Sonic, who surrenders it to Eggman, which somehow ends up in Silvers hands, who travels back in time with Shadow and leaves it with Elise.

 

 

You know I tried looking up the story of Sonic 06 to see how that would make sense, and Sonic Retro has a graph accounting for every Emerald in the game:

 

 

Regular shaded lines progress normally through time, bright shaded lines go forward via time travel, and dark shaded lines go backwards via time travel. This is a mess.... look at it!

 

The blue one, the one Silver gave to Elise gave to Sonic gave to Eggman gave to Sonic gave to Silver gave to Eli...

 

 

...it's an ontological loop.

 

That's.... that's awful.

 

This story is worse than I remembered it.

[Celestia]

And what's even funnier - the story ends with the entire events of the game being erased. Not as a retcon, but within the context of the game itself. That's a reboot within a reboot. Who even does that?!

For what it's worth, it's not like reset buttons are uncommon in time travel stories. Sonic '06 is just an infamous example of it because...well. It's Sonic '06. Hell, I actually kind of like the ending, and not (just) in a meta "oh thank goodness all that stupidity was erased" way. Aside from the cool openings for each story and Shadow's portrayal, it's one of the few things about the game I outright enjoyed.

 

And yes the way the Emeralds were handled was awful. Is it really that hard to keep track of something like that??? They easily could have set up a chart similar to that one and--oh, who am I kidding, they obviously stopped caring about this game at some point.

 

It's funny because as much as I don't like this game, I guess I'm kind of thankful for it in the sense that it was a wake up call for Sonic Team regarding, you know, finishing their games. Say what you will about Lost World or even the boost trilogy, but at least I can play them without getting the feeling that I somehow obtained a beta version of a game.

[FireBird75]

Where did you get that information from?

 

 

 

Sonic Retro.  It has it all.

[DBZHedgy]

You keep assuming members here are biased by accusing them of never criticizing the plots of Colors, Generations, or Lost World for similar gaffes in Sonic 06. This is wrong when you've neither bothered to look at any topics on these games' stories (at which point you would see most people think they're shit too), nor have you even went through people's posting history to corroborate this assumption. Yet you point fingers anyway.

 

You are judging members here for something you've not even proven they've done in an attempt to supposedly discredit their arguments. This is an awful debate tactic and it makes watching this entire thing unfold more painful than it needs to be.

Point proven, and well done at that. I will refrain from using the given statement now that I'm sure that it's.... mostly true

However, that is not to say that there aren't people who do believe this, much less in this forum's community, but I digress.

 

 

 Because the story fails to properly explain itself, leaving people frustrated at the plot when characters act contrary to what they want to achieve.

 

You take parts of the story and try to assume and interpret things in a way that makes the story make sense.

 

 

No story is justified in being poorly written, and poorly delivered. Period.

 

So you're saying that no one else 'gets' the game story besides you? That you're the only one who understands the story and why it 'makes sense' and that everyone else is just in denial?

 

By filling in the blanks with your own assumptions and interpretations.

 

The story never tells us that, you are filling in the blanks with your own assumptions and interpretations.

 

The story never tells us that, you are filling in the blanks with your own assumptions and interpretations.

 

Your logic is starting to fall apart.

Contrary? I don't recall Mephiles ever helping Sonic Shadow or Silver, much less trying to stop Eggman or Iblis. THAT is contrary, screwing around in the past however is not.

 

Indeed, I do this only because it's the next logical step. "Blanks" in a story usually end up with a game being a Mad Lib, due to the players blatant unwantedness for the story. As a result the game SEEMS jumbled up and confused, while the opposite, Me, uses the "blanks" to make the story make more sense. How do you know that the writers didn't intend for us to pick it up? It's almost as if it's a math problem.

Here's the problem: 2 + _ = 4 

Here's my perception of it: 2 + 2 = 4 (Whereas I'm using my knowledge of the Math [or the game in this case] to solve the problem)

Here's alot of others' perception of it: 2 + 0 = 4 (Resulting in the plot Not making sense and nothing seeming justified)

This would in turn mean that the people who do thing the plot is convuluted and unexplained is because they themselves haven't filled in the blanks properly.

 

Since this is the case than the story should have no reason for the guff it gets because Nothing contradicts itself in the story. And you can SAY that mephiles has contradicted himself, but you'd be wrong. He never did anything that would directly cause his plan to faulter.

 

It isn't poorly written, it is however very vague in some situations resulting in the example I gave above.

 

Actually the game never has Elise paired with someone who knows that if she dies that it will be released. Only Sonic, and after he knew he had saved her so he probably told her in the discussion scenes off screen. It would make sense.

 

 

A villain taking the complicated way out is only acceptable if there is no other real way they can achieve their goal...being blunt isn't always the safest way for villains and that can also severely back-fire very easily than making a more complex yet reliable plan. Mephiles literally has no excuse...and he isn't causing chaos, he literally just told Silver to kill Sonic, while he failed constantly at trying to get Shadow to join his side and getting his ass kicked afterwards.

 

If Mephiles actually wanted to cause havoc and chaos as he made progression to get what he wants, you'd think that he would have more control on the events happening in the story, he has almost no control on what happens in the story...he's the reason things happen, but he's not the reason things play out the way they do...otherwise everything would end up in his favor with no way of back-fire...but that doesn't happen, he gets what he wants but it has nothing to do with what he caused to happen through out the game at that point. Him causing chaos just for kicks is never even something that the story implies...not once throughout the whole game.

 

How does that not make it acceptable? (I've said this a million times and have explained it thoroughly. I wish people would READ my earlier posts before repling to a more recent one... It's QUITE aggravating.) Mephiles is, by definition, not stupid. Being Stupid means to Lack intelligence. Yet his plans still come to fruition. If he WAS as stupid as people claim his plan WOULD NOT succeed, and he would be destroyed before Solaris came to be. There is no reason to call Mephiles dumb because it is, by definition, incorrect.

 

Apparently, before negative reception came crashing down on the game, 06 was set to reboot the Sonic universe.

Of course the stupidity of the plothole is only strengthened since Generations acknowledges 06 as canon.

Yes, this is true.

 

 

Nowhere in the game does it imply that Mephilis is purposely taking convoluted and roundabout steps towards reuniting with Solaris so he can screw with the heroes.

 

Nowhere does it imply that the Duke of Solaris didn't know that Iblis would die with whatever host was in it.

 

Nowhere does it imply Elise would know of what would happen if she died, in fact, her willingly letting herself die implies that she DOESN'T know what would happen to Iblis.

 

These are all things you ASSUME about the characters. Sure, it'd make sense if these things were explained in the story, but they aren't, so whether or not it's true or not is anyone's guess.

 

If I were about to consume time and space, I'd probably conjure up lots of ice cream and tacos. Because I'm not Mephilies, therefore, what I would've done doesn't matter in what Mephilies did. He isn't one of those 'what would YOU have done' characters, he's a villain that's supposed to create conflict in the story and create tension for the heroes.

 

Characters can be mysterious and ambiguous, but when the character starts making actions that run contrary to what they're trying to achieve, then it just makes them look stupid. Also, the point of a mysterious character is to intrigue the audience and makes them want to find out more about them.

 

Shadow in SA2 was played up as a mysterious character. We know very little about him or his backstory at first, which grabs the viewers attention. It makes them want to find out more about him and what his motives are, and as the plot unfolds we're revealed more about who him and his ultimate plans.

 

Same with Mephilies. They introduce him as some weird creature that looks just like Shadow and seems to know him somehow, and can manipulate time. This also makes viewers want to follow the story and find out more. Thus over the course of the plot we piece together more information about him, and find out that he's the other half of Solaris and he wants to merge with Iblis so he can destroy everything. That's all fine and dandy, but the problem is that once we realize his motives and reevaluate the steps he took to achieving his goal, we begin to realize that there were far simpler ways of doing it, and when the plot fails to explain why these simpler options were never considered, or weren't possible, it makes his actions look needlessly complex, which undermines his credibility as a villain.

 

 

Actually, the chaos emerald that Elise had was an emerald Silver gave her back when he and Shadow time traveled back to the past. It was an emerald that Silver took from the present and left in the past, effectively causing 8 chaos emeralds to exist. 7 scattered across the world, and 1 duplicate from the future that Elise holds onto for 10 years, who then gives it to Sonic, who surrenders it to Eggman, which somehow ends up in Silvers hands, who travels back in time with Shadow and leaves it with Elise.

No where does it imply that these allegations are incorrect as well.

 

And screwing around in the past is a result of this. You would conjure up ice cream and he would like to screw with people. It's his pleasure to do these things before his ultimate goal comes to fruition, and what exactly is a "What would you have done character?" Because it doesn't make sense for any character in a video game to do that. Even the "Choose your side" story does things that you wouldn't even have liked to do when you follow a certain pathline.

 

AND THAT'S WHAT THE GAME DID. Don't you see that everyone here who is griping about the Mephiles' character is curious to know WHY he went through all of that. You just helped prove my point

 

Yes, but not entirely, hence the creation of Shadow The Hedgehog.

The game is literally nothing more than Fan service. People asked for more Shadow, there's more shadow.

 

Yes, I realize this.

 

Well, they did a fine job getting that across. All this time I thought this was just continuing on from Shadow's game. 

 

And what's even funnier - the story ends with the entire events of the game being erased. Not as a retcon, but within the context of the game itself. That's a reboot within a reboot. Who even does that?! Also, as you said, Sonic Generations still acknowledged it.

 

This series, man. It's amazing Sonic even survived '06.

 

Not really. It seems as though no one had even considered Sonic 06 after it has released, because Unleashed had received EVEN MORE money than Sonic 06. 

I mean look at this forum for example. This things has been alive since 2000, and people are still here 14 years later. I'd say that's pretty good seeing as how radical the series is. 

 

You know the funny thing? I'd still find this plot crappy even if it made sense. It'd still have horrible dialogue, boring characters,SILVER, useless characters, hilariously melodramatic FF-esque moments,etc.

And that's just the story segment!

Also yeah, if you assume we here treat the stories after 06 like works of art, and never crap on them, you're mistaken.(COUGH!GENERATIONS!COUGH!)

 

Yep, but that's just your opinion on it. 

 

Well I'm glad that people DON'T do that. Because there are people who act quite the contrary.

 

 

A. Yes you are, as evidenced by your own posts, comrade.

 

B. The forum is for meaningful discussion. Just because this is a forum doesn't mean you get to keep everyone trapped in a circular argument that you'll never concede. It's just a waste of time to rile everyone up for a discussion that they arbitrarily can never win.

 

You really need to stop the condescending nonsense and really think through the arguments presented. And stop dragging everyone into the mired swamp of hypotheticals, because no one's going to win an argument based on what could maybe possibly be.

 

Understand that I don't like railing against people, comrade, and I can't say I'd rather you stop posting or anything. But know that you're behavior here is making it very hard to side with you.

A. Again, It's only because the question in which I bring up, that is supposed to get the conversation to continue, is ignored, and to top it off everyone always goes for the EXACT SAME COMPLAINT. We've been talking about Mephiles for two pages now... I've pointed out things to relate it to future and past games... ignored... I've bring up how inconsistent Eggman's character is...ignored... I've explained thoroughly WHY I think the way I do, and without even giving it a chance and putting a little thought into it... IGNORED.

 

B. I'm not keeping it trapped, In point of fact i CONSTANTLY try to make it continue. Look at the above paragraph again if your opinion on me keeping in a loop doesn't matter. I HAVE accepted that some things are wrong in this game, however people who hate it REFUSE to accept some things even for Valid reasons that I've already pointed out. Don't blame me for what it was. I said how the game came across to me, and as a result people have asked questions because my reasons had seemed insincere. So I responeded. I'm not just gonna say "Yea, yo'ure right" because I don't truly believe that. Discussions usually become locked into this state until both sides come to an agreement. I've already met you guys halfway.

 

Read my posts... Because I've thoroughly explained that as well...

 

My behavior? Sorry, but All i'm doing is defending a game that I enjoy, and thus I'm giving reasons for why i like instead of just saying. "I LIKE IT AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY MIND"

Again, I have already stated that I have problems with the story. This argument wouldn't be locked in conflict if some people would just read my initial post.

The last thing I want to do is come off as rude and condescending to a forum that I've just introduced myself to. All I'm doing is SHOWING why I like it, and is that wrong? 

 

It might never be said what Shiek does when they're not teaching us song, but I personally wouldn't consider it a plot hole because honestly, it's easy to assume that they're just running around and maybe fighting monsters? They're trying to fight Bongo Bongo when you encounter them in the Kakariko Village, so it wouldn't be too hard to assume that they spend most of their spare time doing something like this. Maybe she changed from Shiek to Zelda right in front of Link because she had a moment of carelessness and just really wanted him to see her? Either way, if these can even be considered plot holes, then they're not nearly as obvious or consistent as the ones in '06. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think I can argue much longer. Even talking about Zelda isn't nearly as fun as usual when it's done like this.

 

Ok, how does that differ from Sonic 06's story? There are unexplained bits, and explained bits. How can we know for sure that Sheik was doing such when she has only encountered bongo bongo once, and other than saving princess ruto, there is nothing further that she is capable of doing even with her Magic abilities, that can change her Gender for peat's sake.

I don't have a problem with it mind you, but Ocarina of Time is one of the highest selling Zelda games and most favorable of most fans. If these plot holes relate to 06, than it should be excused. I can understand if it isn't though... To be honest, I've really wanted to talk about the gameplay more than the story, because honestly, everyone plays a game for the GAMEPLAY and not the story.

 

So, everyone replying. Can we talk about the gameplay please?

 

I always figured that Mephiles can't fuse with future!Iblis and that's the reason he tries to get the present day one released. The future one is just a big ol' demon Mephiles doesn't try to do anything with, but the present release is the flames he eventually merges with. At least, that's how I rationalise it, the game should have explained though. Would have made Mephiles's plan less retarded.

 

I find it odd that people are more concerned with a time travel plot full of holes than the scene where Sonic abandons Amy to get some princess poontang from someone he barely knows, especially leaving Amy (a long time friend or someone he at least cares about) with someone that he himself could not beat. That is so out of character and jarring it's just disgusting. Sonic would try and figure out what was going on in the central plot too and not just concern himself with a princess. He doesn't even comment on Mephiles and just ignores it in Crisis City! You'd think he'd go "Ah, that Shadow like dude sent this Silver prick back to kill me, that's not right! I need to fix this", but no, he just wants Elise for no reason at all other than "because the game says he does". Maybe he doesn't care that he's the villain to Silver (Black Knight supported that Sonic just does what he does for kicks and that he doesn't mind being the bad guy) but he'd surely be a bit concerned about someone trying to kill him every few minutes.

 

Finally, someone who isn't concerned about Mephiles!

 

Yea, I found that pretty strange too, but to be honest is it really that unbelievable?

Amy did Fight against Sonic against Aliens who wished to send the planet into a void of endless space (Sonic Chronicles)

Amy Did defeat Eggman just as Sonic had done (Sonic Heroes)

She may seem a bit useless sometimes, but come on. I'm sure Sonc knew that Amy had it in her. Her charm and attitude is what got shadow to change his ways in adventure 2, couldn't that mean that Sonic knew that Amy was capable of changing these characters to the "good" side? It would make sense wouldn't you say? It already makes sense that she made silver hesitate, that alone would give sonic the reason to believe in Amy. Not to mention Silver RECOGNIZED HER. "AMY?! Get outta my way amy, this is my mission"

 

Seems like one big step towards making the plot make more sense would be to write either Iblis or Mephiles out of all the scenes set in the future.

 

If we take the idea that Iblis dies if its host dies, maybe that could be exactly what happened after the Egg Carrier crashes, and Mephiles goes ballistic and kills everyone and ruins the world, but without having the power to absorb all of space-time.  And then his manipulation of the plot is actually a convoluted plan to save Elise and then make her cry so he can achieve his original objective.  He wouldn't even need his overpowered time-travel abilities in this variant, although whether he's a credible world-destroyer is up for grabs.  Hmm... if you take Iblis out of the future, then you basically take Iblis out of the plot altogether.  That might be of advantage when trying to prune the plot into something more streamlined - just replace it with full-on Solaris.

 

Alternatively, let's say that Mephiles isn't around in the future, though that raises difficulties with how he's able to get Silver to do anything.  Maybe he's successfully trapped in the sceptre again or something but can whisper ti people from within it.  Iblis gets released when Elise dies / cries and dies, but with no Mephiles around it's just an unbeatable demon rampaging about, and a more plausible sort of hazard than Mephiles, who is tough but not unstoppable.  But then we have the question of why Mephiles just doesn't get someone to smash the sceptre.  You could make that a more complicated process, but the last thing the plot needs is to be made more complicated - in contrast to Generations, where the problem is that it's not complicated enough.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who enjoys trying to rewrite the plot of '06 into something that at least makes sense, even if it's still not good.  It's probably still more enjoyable than actually playing the game, at any rate.

 

 

 

I think the broad strokes of the plot are just more memorable.  Shoddy characterisation is probably an easier error to fix than fundamental flaws in the game's entire mythology.  That and Elise honestly gets kidnapped and endangered so many times that they all just sort of blur together... there's something else that could be neatened up.  There's a bit where Amy rescues her only for her to be immediately kidnapped again, right?

 

Yes, that's taking both sides of filling in the "blanks", good on ya. 

 

Even if you don't enjoy the plot it was a good stab at it. It didn't seem that far fetched from the original story to be honest, and it could've been shoehorned in. But that's just optimistic thinking.

 

Yes, but Elise took the incentive to escape all on her own, amy just helped her escape the captivity of the base. Elie herself espcaped from the room which could've been explained, showing how greatly she's improved as a character. Again.

 

 

You know I tried looking up the story of Sonic 06 to see how that would make sense, and Sonic Retro has a graph accounting for every Emerald in the game:

 

 

Regular shaded lines progress normally through time, bright shaded lines go forward via time travel, and dark shaded lines go backwards via time travel. This is a mess.... look at it!

 

 

The blue one, the one Silver gave to Elise gave to Sonic gave to Eggman gave to Sonic gave to Silver gave to Eli...

 

 

...it's an ontological loop.

 

That's.... that's awful.

 

This story is worse than I remembered it.

 

At least it's actually traceable, if the game were as convelutateed as people say, emeralds would be appearing from one timeline to another with no solid explanation, this chart SHOWS that the game's plot was organzied... To some extent.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Where's this idea of no emeralds in Silver's time come from? There clearly is. Why? Cause Sonic & Shadow find two! They need them in the future to teleport back to the modern day remember?

[DBZHedgy]

 

It's funny because as much as I don't like this game, I guess I'm kind of thankful for it in the sense that it was a wake up call for Sonic Team regarding, you know, finishing their games. Say what you will about Lost World or even the boost trilogy, but at least I can play them without getting the feeling that I somehow obtained a beta version of a game.

 

I disagree... If this game was such a wakeup call, than why are there gameplay elements that Live on in Sonic Unleashed through Generations? Straight Homing attack? Slide? Boost (or in 06's case, Blue Gem)? Do I need to say more?

If you think about it, every game is incomplete. Because their's always at least one glitch, or one thing left out of development. That in turn means that every game you have obtained is a beta version as well

Sonic Retro.  It has it all.

Page plz

Where's this idea of no emeralds in Silver's time come from? There clearly is. Why? Cause Sonic & Shadow find two! They need them in the future to teleport back to the modern day remember?

Look at the chart, every chaos emerald that is in the future was taken to the future.

[Indigo Rush]

At least it's actually traceable, if the game were as convelutateed as people say, emeralds would be appearing from one timeline to another with no solid explanation, this chart SHOWS that the game's plot was organzied... To some extent.

 

No, that timeline proves the exact opposite. The very idea that you need a chart to follow the story of a lone Sonic game, one that's supposed to re-introduce the series to the masses, is one that clearly had little thought put into it. The writers clearly wanted to make a grandiose and "epic" game without even thinking about who the target audience was.

 

Listen, I know you love the game, but you're trying to defend something that has been objectively and universally panned for reasons such as the convoluted and overly complicated story. I used to be a white-knighter for this one until I played it for myself.

 

All of it. 

 

Everything about this game is the personification of what was wrong with Sonic Team of the time. Every detail, every thought, every moment you control that empty emotionless shell of a hedgehog is spared good intention. Sonic 2006 is not simply a bad game because of glitches, it's one of the worst games to ever have been made. The story is terrible. The gameplay is terrible. The design and intention is terrible. The very philosophy, "what if Sonic were real," was dead on arrival. NOTHING about this game, save for a passable soundtrack, is salvageable.

 

 

 

You're defending something that SEGA pulled off of the Xbox Live market. 

 

Something that only guaranteed more money the longer they kept it up.

 

Because they felt the image of Sonic was more important than the money they would make.

 

SEGA, a big greedy gaming corporation, gave up free money, because this is a game they are personally ashamed of.

 

You're defending a game that SEGA is personally ashamed of.

 

Personally ashamed of.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Look at the chart, every chaos emerald that is in the future was taken to the future.

Uhh, not the case.

 

Those two emeralds had to be found by enduring Crisis City, Flame Core and Iblis himself! Besides, why wouldn't the emeralds exist still to that day? Not like there's any given rule stopping them.

[Indigo Rush]

Retro's accounting of the Chaos Emeralds in '06:

Emerald Accounting

Following where the Chaos Emeralds go during the game's story can be an exercise in frustration; particularly when they lead to plotholes, paradoxes, and ontological loops while being taken backwards and forwards in time by various characters. The route each Emerald takes through the story is as follows (see also diagram):




RED:
Doesn't appear in the game at all until the Last Story, where Mephiles uses all 7 gems to fuse with Iblis during a cutscene.


YELLOW:
Spends most of the game buried under Dusty Desert. Mephiles hunts it down near the end of Shadow's story, acquiring it just before the boss fight of Mephiles Phase 2.


PURPLE:
The first time we see this gem is in Mephiles' possession when he recruits Silver and Blaze in Crisis City. He presumably acquires it after sending himself, Shadow, and Rouge to the future from Kingdom Valley. Mephiles apparently carries it around with him throughout the rest of the game, although we only see it again at the start of the Last Story when he uses it as a distraction to allow him to skewer Sonic.


TURQUOISE:
This gem enters the story when Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Rouge find it in Iblis Phase 2's cave after Flame Core in the future. It travels back to Soleannawith Sonic and stays with him for a while. After Sonic's Kingdom Valley, he uses the turquoise gem to open the portal to a few hours in the past with Silver so he can save Elise from the Egg Carrier. Sonic leaves the Emerald with Silver and Blaze, who then take it 200 years into the future to fight Iblis Phase 3.


GREY:
Silver sees the Duke of Soleanna seal Iblis inside Elise using this gem at the Solaris Project 10 years ago. Silver then takes it with him to the present (thereby removing it from time for 10 years and precluding any super transformations in the decade before the adventure), and later uses it to open the portal to a few hours in the past with Sonic. The grey gem then goes with Silver and Blaze 200 years into the future to fight Iblis Phase 3.


GREEN:
This Emerald stays with Team Dark for most of the game. Shadow and Rouge find it as their Crisis City mission objective 200 years in the future. Rouge takes it back through the portal to Soleanna as Shadow fights Mephiles Phase 1. The bat gives it to Omega after Tropical Jungle, who goes into stasis for 200 years in order to deliver it back to Shadow during the fight. Omega, Shadow, and the green emerald return to the present, and Shadow goes on to use it for Chaos Control to kick Silver in the head. Shadow then takes the Emerald with him to the Solaris Project 10 years ago, where he uses it to seal Mephiles inside the Scepter of Darkness, then returns again to the present. However, in Shadow's final Dusty Desert cutscene, crystalline Mephiles suddenly has the green gem in his possession along with the yellow one, apparently having snatched it from Shadow offscreen (perhaps during the confusion of the Scepter's explosion?).


BLUE:
This is the Emerald which finds itself locked in an ontological loop over the course of the game. The blue gem is implied to have been Princess Elise's lucky charm for many years, and Dr. Robotnik attacks the Festival of the Sun to steal it from her. Elise throws the jewel to Sonic as she is being kidnapped, and Sonic takes it to White Acropolis as a ransom, where it goes in Robotnik's time machine. Silver later takes the blue Emerald from White Acropolis after beating the Egg Genesis, and uses it (with Shadow's assistance) to open a portal to the past and the Solaris Project. Silver then gives it to a 7-year-old-Elise, who presumably keeps it with her for the intervening 10 years until the Festival of the Sun is attacked. The problem here is that the blue Emerald never enters or leaves the loop; it didn't exist chronologically before Silver brings it to the Solaris Project, and it doesn't exist after Silver and Shadow warp out of the Radical Train fight arena. And, since it's been with Elise for the 10 years before the game, how did Sonic and Shadow use it to turn super and defeat Perfect Chaos, Finalhazard, Metal Overlord, and Devil Doom?

[The Tenth Doctor]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. This game is far from perfect, but I like it. The story is daft but fun, I agree that because this one was so big that Sonic's stories have gone downhill. The gameplay though glitchy, still gives me a kick when I play it. I adore Mephiles as a sneaky, genocidal villain but he's a cartoon demon posing as a hedgehog. Not to be taken seriously really, like bow Eggman was super serious in Adventure 2 but found time to scratch his arse.

The hatred to this game is overblown, yes it's true. People over dramatise it sometimes (critics!) but I understand its not popular. Sega are covering it up now but were still kind enough to throw us Crisis City in Generations. We can't keep pushing people to see what they don't and can not see. So for the last few years I have ignored every 06 cliche, joke and rant. I just keep it to myself really. Apart from my 06 parody cartoon, Sonic the Hedgehog in Short (still love that one!)

[Celestia]

I disagree... If this game was such a wakeup call, than why are there gameplay elements that Live on in Sonic Unleashed through Generations? Straight Homing attack? Slide? Boost (or in 06's case, Blue Gem)? Do I need to say more?

The homing attack is functionally the same in every game it's appeared in (it's powerup-only use in 3D Blast and the charging-up mechanics in Lost World aside), anyway. The slide is fairly different, at least in how it works. But the boost was almost definitely based on Rush instead of 06, considering the mechanics in Unleashed-thru-Generations were "hold down button to boost" instead of just being a little burst of speed for a few seconds. If anything, '06's "boost" inspired the boost in the Wii/PS2 version of Unleashed, or as I like to call it, the embarrassing version.

 

If you think about it, every game is incomplete. Because their's always at least one glitch, or one thing left out of development. That in turn means that every game you have obtained is a beta version as well

Most games don't get to the levels of glitchiness that '06 can reach in even the most casual attempts to play it. True enough about dummied out content, there are probably plenty of games with a lot more "left out" stuff than '06, but chances are those games are a lot less glitchy and a million times more polished! And even then, usually content is removed from a game to make it feel less cluttered or whatever, but with '06 some of it is just weird; Sonic's action gauge not being used for anything is arguably an example of that rather than a "glitch", per se. 

 

Who knows if that was intentional or not, but...that's the thing, isn't it? With a lot of the stupid stuff in '06, it's hard to tell if it was an inherent design flaw, or something that was caused by how rushed the final game feels. It's to the point where the Kingdom Valley demo feels like a later build of the game than what people bought from store shelves.

[Indigo Rush]

Sega are covering it up now but were still kind enough to throw us Crisis City in Generations.

 

Keep in mind that SEGA's choice to disown Sonic '06 occured in late 2010.  By this time, Sonic Generations was over halfway finished. They weren't about to cut a whole level and push an unfinished product out for an anniversary title. Like last time.

 

Also, liking the game is one thing, I understand why some people do like it. But it's another thing to ignore the facts and to defend what doesn't deserve to be defended. So I'm totally cool with people getting enjoyment out of it. Watching people play Sonic '06 and run into hilarious glitches (and I do mean hilarious) is always a treat.

 

But yeah, I suppose I understand why you like it, Tenth Doc.  :]

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

It's probably best not to try and use the "unfinished game" argument when 06 fails to include stuff mentioned in the freaking manual!!

[Celestia]

Oh and about Crisis City in Generations, I was...actually pretty impressed with that decision. They could have easily just ignored '06 entirely, but nope. I get people were mad because they just want to forget this game ever happened, but even before Generations people were still bringing it up, so either way nothing really changed. :V

 

And y'know, I did vaguely enjoy what I've played of '06. Part of it is that I played it years later, though. I had long since healed from the hype train crash, and since I hadn't played it when it was new, I hadn't been as bummed out over it as those who had. So I just kinda laughed about it. Still pretty bad, but at least it isn't very personal for me. I save that level of annoyance for Wii Unleashed.

 

...Thinking about this has reminded me of how annoying the bosses are in this game. Egg Cerberus in particular, what even is that fight.

[FireBird75]

Page plz

 

Too damn lazy to look it up yourself?

Fine, here: http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2006_game)#Production_Credits

 

 

Also, about Crisis City.  It's kinda funny that that level was somehow bring back for Generations only for it to be erased again when Modern & Classic Sonic defeat the Time Eater.

Sonic 06 sucks so bad, it got erased twice! LOL

[Vertekins]

What I don't quite 'get' is why this game's story is put on a pedestal above stories like Colours' and Generations' (Which are shit anyway but were certainly not on the same level as '06)  just because it has more 'complexity' or 'an epic feel' to it.

 

Yeah....That really doesn't count for anything when the narrative is so fundamentally broken in my view. I understand the notion that fans would like an ambitious plot along the lines of '06 but I don't get putting the story overall above Colours and Gens specifically because it's serious when it was so utterly cringeworthy.

[DarkLight]

The fact that most like to bring up their dislike for Colors and Generation's plots (or lack thereof for the ladder)  as means to defend 06's clusteruck of a story is just grating in general.

[Indigo Rush]

I can't think of anyone here who thinks Colors' lack of depth is an endearing element. Simplicity is nice on occasion, and Colors' story was pretty refreshing after having a ton of heavy plots, but I'd hate for such cheesiness to be the norm. As someone who enjoyed Colors and Lost World, I can't possibly bring myself to advocate for the series to never go deeper than that. Those stories excel in character development and script writing, but lack in complexity and theming. 

 

Basically, I feel that there is a time and a place for certain dark or childish overtones, but the series should not be dominated by either.

 

With that in mind, it's pretty silly to suggest that any member here would want Colors to be the norm, and it's just as silly to point to Colors as an excuse for why stories need to be like '06. Both are extreme ends of the spectrum. Well, not so much Colors, but you get the idea.

[DBZHedgy]

Before I make another relatively large post I would like to advise that whomever wishes to reply to my statements, PLEASE read prior statements before replying to latter statements... it is QUITE frustrating saying the same thing as many as 4 to 5 times over....