Sonic Adventure 2 v.s. Sonic Heroes - Round 4: Hype/Marketing

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Hello, you masses of people on SSMB. I am here with literally my first Sonic topic in a looong time. Here, we partake in a figh to the death with two somewhat controversial Sonic games with mixed opinions among SSMBers, and the fanbase in general. Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes. This is the topic where we get to have our fellow member share the thoughts on each game. Like Soniman's Unleashed v.s. Colors topic, there will be a specific week to focus on a subject for us to debate/discuss on. At least post at least a paragraph explaining your thoughts.

 

Now, let us begin with this subject!

 

Round 1: Writing/Dialouge

 

I'll just set in down in stone right here. Both SA2 and Heroes (most of the time) have laughably bad dialouge. But I'm gonna take my turn with SA2 first. In terms of dialouge, it mostly ranges from mediocre to terrible, especially with stuff like "I'm the coolest!" and "WE ALL DID IT TOGETHEEEEEEERRRRRR !!!!!". It doesn't help when during serious or tense moments, the bad writing just ruins the scene. Take the cutscene between Shadow and Sonic in Final Rush for example.

 

 

 Oh yeah, and the subtitles are in Comic Sans. The worst font ever crafted by the hands of programmers.  

 

Heroes has many classic quotes like "We'll stop him, with the real super power of teamwork!" and "Look at all those Eggman's robots!". It just reeks of being incredibly cheesy, and I just somehow love it for some reason, probably because of the teamwork/friendship shtick. In reality, I'd say neither win in this field, but if I had to choose one, it'd probably be Heroes. I would've chosen SA2 for the "WE ALL DID IT TOGETHER" at the end which made me laugh until I couldn't breathe, but Heroes has mostly laughably bad and cheesy dialouge, SA2's dialouge is just bad.

 

So, what are your takes on the writing/dialouge in SA2 and Heroes? 

Edited May 14, 2013 by Felix

[Soniman]

Sonic Heroes wins the end.

 

Well what a great way to pop this off, with a round that I have to give to SA2.

 

SA2 has cheesy writing, Sonic Heroes has cheese FACTORY levels of writing. While SA2 writing wasn't in any way great, it at least had SOME dignity, this is usually seen in Shadow/Rouge/Gerald's lines, as I still think Gerald's last speech was pretty chilling.

 

Heroes doesn't even pretend to give a shit about what it's saying. The Team battles being the main suspect, characters have absoultley shitty reasons to fight one another. (Amy fights Sonic because marriage? Rogue fights Team Chaotix becuase....WHY? Team Sonic and Dark fight because.....WHY!?!?!?!? Chaotix and Team Rose fight because...uhh.....simple misunderstanding?

 

The in-game dialogue is actually really nice I find though, when their not talking about tutorial bullshit they actually interact with one another as if their actual characters. Doesn't forgive stupid lines like "whoa my head's spinning" and "look at all those Eggman's robots!".

 

Oh and despite this, pretty much all of Team Rose's dialogue is insipid and retarded, can't stand any of it. Team Chaotix has the best, most notably from Vector, I just love how this guy seems to have actual realistic desires like making rent for the office, and paying the electric bill.

 

Oh shit and adding on to what CSS said, I can't believe I missed mentioning this. Super Power of Teamwork? We're Sonic Heroes? What the fuck Sonic? What the hell happened to you man? SA2 ends on a dignified sombre note with all the characters winning, but at what cost? Sonic Heroes ends with literally Team Sonic FREEZE FRAMING IN PLACE screaming "YEAH WERE SONIC HEROES!!"

 

Seriously? In what context does that line make any sense in Sonic's universe? Seriously what the hell is a "Sonic Hero" to them? If this what counts as breaking the fourth wall, it's a really shit attempt.

 

But whatever. SA2 wins due to dignity, even if I find Heroes' dialogue more of a hoot, it's not really because of its quality.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Soniman

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

SA2, no questions asked.

 

Say what you will about the tone of the game, but the writing and dialogue in that game are a lot more bearable than "We're Sonic Heroes" and the "Power of TEAMWURK!" being tossed in your face so anviliciously.

 

The writing also gave characters a reason for being around in SA2, as the characters generally had their own agendas before coming together as opposing teams in the struggle. Heroes? The characters are on teams and fight because...the game made them fight. Really, there's nothing coherent about it, and even they're going after the same damn thing as the case was with Team Dark and Sonic, rather than work together they decide to knock each other off into the water because they wanted to go after the bad guy. Da fuq?

 

And then there's Metal Sonic, who we've only gotten a glimpse of in the main story but his ambitions were hardly given substance until the very end, and even then it came off weak as hell.

 

So yeah, Heroes can't even stand up to SA2 at all. I'd say more, but I can just simplify it to this: everything about it screams wasted potential while SA2 tries to realize it and both succeeds and fumbles it due to it's poor aging.

Edited April 9, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Mangoaxe5]

The writing and dialogue in Sonic Adventure 2 is better.

 

In Sonic Adventure 2 there's an actual attempt at storytelling.

 

Sonic Heroes on the other hand tried to be like the 2-D games and as a result what little story there is is a fucking mess.

[Diogenes]

Everyone in Heroes sucks, the end.

 

It's really no surprise; SA2 has its problems, but it made an honest attempt at telling a story, while Heroes had the most paper-thin excuse plot. The characters simply move from level to level for some irrelevant predefined goal, they fight each other for no reason other than the game needing a fight, it brings Metal back only to stomp all over his character concept, it makes Eggman helpless from start to finish, Team Dark's  story (the only one with anything even resembling an attempt) is nothing but setup for ShtH (WHICH THEY IGNORED COMPLETELY)...there just is nothing good here. Everything sucks and is dumb, and there really isn't a single character who is at all interesting. Well, except maybe Vector, but only because they were willing to be a bit silly with the Chaotix, and he's neither annoying like Charmy or a tool like Espio. It's still not even worth it though because you need to suffer through all the other shit to see a character that might've been entertaining in a different game.

 

SA2 has some clumsy lines but the characters actually have reasons for doing things and personalities worth giving a shit about so it's miles ahead.

[Tornado]

Heroes had writing?

[Soniman]

Heroes had writing?

 

Characters spoke, so I guess it did.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Heroes had writing?

A paper-thin one, yeah. Why?

[Rusty Spy]

While both games have some cheesy writing, SA2 at least takes it's story seriously enough to pull out some really effective dialogue that really shines in it's most climatic scenes.

 

Heroes' writing doesn't so much not take it's story seriously as it just acts childish. In a way it's more of a reversal of SA2's dialogue; where the idle chit-chat between characters was awkward or bland while the dramatic scenes pulled some memorable lines, Heroes really shined in it's more casual dialogue, but completely falls flat when it tries to be dramatic.

 

 

"Darn... I fo'got to pay the electric bill fo the office."

[Tornado]

I always just thought it was the cast attempting to act out whatever doodles Iizuka drew on the back of a napkin.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I always just thought it was the cast attempting to act out whatever doodles Iizuka drew on the back of a napkin.

Why do you think I called it paper-thin?

Edited April 9, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Soniman]

Why do you think I called it paper-thin?

 

Why do you think all the in-game cutscenes didn't even last 30 seconds?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why do you think all the in-game cutscenes didn't even last 30 seconds?

Because the writers started losing their talent...

[NocturnalTwilight]

Well, I'd have to go with Adventure 2.

 

Has anyone picked Heroes yet? No? Okay then.

 

With the lines that just result in an automatic face-palm--

 

(I was gonna quote them, but everyone's posted them already)

 

One of my favorite parts with the writing is the Boss fight against Shadow 2/Sonic 2. 

 

I'm not gonna go into detail with quotes, but I just thought that Sonic's speech fit the character.

 

Hell, I'll do it anyways.

 

"Just a guy who loves Adventure, I'm Sonic the Hedgehog!"

- Just a thing I would expect Sonic to say, it just felt like him to me. 

 

"I see, but you know, I can't let you live."

- Still showing that the little we know about Shadow, he's still determined after seeing Sonic's power to fight and try to destroy him.

 

I couldn't care less about what font the subtitles were in, as long as I can read it, by the way.

[Burnt Ash]

You know, after playing SA2 again, I've come to conclude for myself that the dialogue is incredibly poor, but at the same time, it's a lot better than Heroes's dialogue, I think. I had some good times with SA2's dialogue, such as some of the more dramatic scenes, especially pre-Tails vs. Eggman (II) and the Last story, I suppose. However, Heroes, I felt none of this. The dialogue managed to be even more cheesy than some of SA2's worst lines, and a lot of them kinda just give exaggerated emotions to a ton of the characters. Like, Heroes portrays some emotions, but some of them, particularly the ones that are a bit more angry, are very poorly executed to the point where it just feels off. But yeah, in the end I'll choose SA2 for this one. (likewise for most potential topics in this topic except for perhaps one or two.....)

[Lady Soniko]

I'm going to say Heroes, simply for the crazy amount of dialogue that went into the game, it may have a shallow story, but character dialogue...There is absolute masses of it, examples range from idle quotes from simply standing still, to each team member having their own spin on what they say i.e. in Grand Metropolis the first thing they say after their continuation on from the mini cut scene is something about the blue path, and it ranges from 3 different things depending on who is the leader, or which supporting hero the game decides to choose to say something.

 

Tails: "This blue path is carrying me forward, now I can keep up with Sonic!"

Knuckles: "What's with this path? Just standing on it is carrying me forward!"

Sonic: "This blue path is moving on it's own!"

 

and for each comment on the gimmicks or environment, they each have their own phrases to say, so the thought that there are 12 characters, and they each have their own lines for each comment throughout the game, that amounts to a fucking ton of quotes and speech paths, so much so I still hear new dialogue to this day.

 

I kinda like how the game nods to it's previous games too, so it does feel like a continuation on from SA and SA2, like Knuckles teasing Tails in Hang Castle about the Shadow they fought in the Jungle being the ghost of SA2 Shadow, or Tail's comments on the comparison to Egg Carrier to Final Fortress, But it just falls flat on it's face when it tries to be serious.

 

I will credit the game for it's character interaction though, it really felt like the teams where working well together, and you have to love Super Sonic & Metal Overlord's banter on, it just made the game feel so much cooler with the amount of character dialogue in it, it wasn't copy pasted stuff for each team too, they all had they're own way of saying something similar, whilst sticking to the character personalities flawlessly.

 

So yes, Heroes.

[-Mark-]

As others have said, SA2 with almost no contest. SA2 has one of the deepest, strongest plots (if not the most outright) the franchise has ever had, whereas Heroes really doesn't have much of a plot at all.

 

Also, considering a lot of the examples of 'bad dialogue' from SA2 come more down to poor localisation, that takes the argument a step back as well. Heroes dialogue was just as cringeworthy and cheesetastic even in Japanese, whereas much of the lame wording and acting wasn't an issue for SA2 in Japanese. 

 

One thing that annoyed me in Heroes' cutscenes was how every character basically cut each other off. 

 

The dialogue structure basically went like thi-

 

Every character would start talking almost before the last one had even finis-

 

And it just felt like of awkward.

[Soniman]

One thing that annoyed me in Heroes' cutscenes was how every character basically cut each other off. 

 

The dialogue structure basically went like thi-

 

Every character would start talking almost before the last one had even finis-

 

And it just felt like of awkward.

 

Well to be fair, SA2 isn't exempt from this either.

 

"You're comparing yourself to me? ha! You're not even good enough to be my fa-

 

"ill make you eat those words!"

Edited April 9, 2013 by Soniman

[-Mark-]

Oh yeah, true. Although in Heroes it's literally in every single non-FMV cutscene. D:

 

Makes me wonder if it was still an issue in Heroes in Japanese, actually. SA2 is more or less devoid of it with the Japanese audio. One part in the English SA2 dub always makes me chuckle due to poor planning; due to the dub timing, Eggman reacts to the news of the Chaos Emerald being stolen before the newscaster actually says it.

[Crash]

I have to go with SA2.

 

Both games have terrible dialogue but Heroes just has nothing serious to it. With SA2, I can at least be intimidated by Eggman and feel like what he is doing is evil. In Heroes, I can't even take Eggman seriously. Sonic, Charmy, Tails and Big are absolute idiots and act nothing like they do in other games.

 

SA2 wins this round.

[Goldenlink64]

Oh yeah, true. Although in Heroes it's literally in every single non-FMV cutscene. D:

 

Makes me wonder if it was still an issue in Heroes in Japanese, actually. SA2 is more or less devoid of it with the Japanese audio. One part in the English SA2 dub always makes me chuckle due to poor planning; due to the dub timing, Eggman reacts to the news of the Chaos Emerald being stolen before the newscaster actually says it.

 

I always figured that they were showing the emerald on the screen (or headline text explaining) and that's when Eggman let off his reaction even though the newscaster hadn't caught up with her script when reading out loud.

[Soniman]

Oh yeah, true. Although in Heroes it's literally in every single non-FMV cutscene. D:

 

Makes me wonder if it was still an issue in Heroes in Japanese, actually. SA2 is more or less devoid of it with the Japanese audio. One part in the English SA2 dub always makes me chuckle due to poor planning; due to the dub timing, Eggman reacts to the news of the Chaos Emerald being stolen before the newscaster actually says it.

 

Well if I'm not mistaken, I figured that the screen showed a photo of the Emerald before the newscaster states it, which would make Eggman's premature reaction somewhat sensible.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

One thing that annoyed me in Heroes' cutscenes was how every character basically cut each other off. 

 

The dialogue structure basically went like thi-

 

Every character would start talking almost before the last one had even finis-

 

And it just felt like of awkward.

Er...wha?

 

I may have voted in SA2's favor for this current round, but I NEVER had that issue with Heroes. Is that dependent on the version you play or something?

[Lady Soniko]

Probably the shitty PS2 port.

[pppp]

SA2 or Sonic Heroes.........I would shoot myself if you made me choose between the scripts of these games