Sonic Adventure 2 v.s. Sonic Heroes - Round 4: Hype/Marketing

[Kuzu]

The only claim to fame Heroes' story has is fucking up the story of Adventure 2 so much that they needed a 3rd game to fix all of it, so...

 

For a given value of "fix"

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The only claim to fame Heroes' story has is fucking up the story of Adventure 2 so much that they needed a 3rd game to fix all of it, so...

Uh, is "fix" a euphemism for "fuck up" in this case?

[Tornado]

Give me "I'm not going to say it was aliens (but it was aliens)" over "Ooooooh, robot clones!?" any day. It was stupid, but it at least had purpose.

[ArtFenix]

Story comparison between Sa2 and heroes?

It's a joke, right? It HAS to be!

[Spin Attaxx]

I'm going for SA2 because it tried to tell a mature story while still remembering it's main character is a blue hedgehog and isn't pretentious, while Heroes was "Let's fight Eggman, is Shadow a robot or not, let's find Sonic, we're getting paid, oh look Metal betrayed Eggman, The End".

 

In other words, it became TOO lighthearted, children safe and lacking. An omen for things to come...

Edited April 15, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Straw Hat]

You might as well just skip this round...

[NocturnalTwilight]

Sonic Adventure 2, by far.

 

Heroes' Story just didn't seemed like it was very planned.

 

EDIT: Oh, and besides that, the part in Heroes where they totally screwed Shadow's reappearance with lack of detail is very disappointing. I wish they could have at least put more detail into it, at least explain that Eggman saved Shadow. But nope, they had to make Heroes and then patch up the holes of Shadow's "death" with Shadow the hedgehog.

Edited April 16, 2013 by OmegaXCL

[a mystery]

For what it is, I'd have to give this round to Sonic Adventure 2. It's definitely not perfect, but like others have said, characters have an actual motive and has an overall better flow.

Being an appreciator of deceptively simple-looking plots, however, I think if Sonic Heroes had the basic premise intact while getting a bit more depth behind it, I'd definitely like it a tad more. I'm not the best writer by any means, but at the very least, the Amy/Sonic cutscene could had went, for example:

Amy being... well, Amy, to Sonic, and because she doesn't bring the topic up, Big and Cream constantly nag the trio about the whereabouts of Chocola and Froggy. This (and Amy's constant proposals or whatnot) naturally pisses Sonic off, which makes the two think that Sonic is faking annoyance to get rid of them, so that he gets to keep the two assumed hostages (for whatever reason). They, although pacifists at heart, fuelled by care for their friends, reluctantly attack Sonic, who fights back in self-defence.

Above, I kept Amy's characterization and Team Rose's motives intact, but I personally say that's at least slightly better than the official script. If the game was written like that, I'd give this round to Heroes, but for what we get officially...

"THIS GAME'S WINNER IS.... SONIC ADVENTURE 2!"

"I'M THE COOLEST!"

Edited April 16, 2013 by Hedgehog Wright (CoN)

[Gabz Girl]

So yeah SA2 wins. God dammit.

Why is that a bad thing? Sonic Heroes' story was, to quote AVGN, the fuckest bologna shit I've ever witnessed in a Sonic game. I know SEGA was trying to go for something lighthearted this time around, but this was too corny, too cheesy and too lighthearted! Oh, and great idea you guys, introducing Shadow the hedgehog in the worst possibly way. So bad in fact you had to end it with the robot/clone/android thing, and create another game which ruined Shadow's character even more.

Isn't it obvious already who wins this round? =P I know SA2's story had its fair share of holes and awkward looking cutscenes (though not as bad as SA1), but at least it was consistent and easy to follow. It was also dark, but the darker elements were done in a much better way than ShtH.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Gabz Girl

[...]

Highly apologize for the long hiatus for the next round, but here goes nothing.

Art Design

Sonic Adventure 2, similar to the first Adventure game, places Sonic in the real world. It wouldn't be fair to automatically call the art design crappy due to the Dreamcast not being much of a... modern console at all, but SA2 just lacks that Sonic "oomph" when it comes to it's art style. A tad bit of the levels look uniform in terms of color and design. Almost all of Green Jungle is well... green. Almost all of Pyramid Run is... a sand-ish color? And all of Metal Harbor is gray. Gray is boring. Like I said before, the levels just don't look or feel like Sonic that much, they just look bland and and uniform.

On the other hand, Sonic Heroes' art design is meant to harken back to the days of Classic Sonic, and it does a damn good job at it. Heroes' art design is much more vibrant than SA2, teeming with colorful and cheery levels that compliment the feel and mood of Sonic. Seaside Hill's art design is a prime example of this, everything looks so colorful and blends seamlessly, and nothing looks bland or monochrome like most levels in SA2. Just take a look at levels like Egg Fleet, Grand Metropolis, and Mystic Mansion.

So, yeah, my vote easily goes to Heroes this round.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Felix

[Cyrus]

Heroes. Little to no competition.

You may argue the character models are too low poly and shiny, but I really like how they look. I can't really explain it, but they look deliciously stylized to me.

As for the look of the world, I love it even more. Heroes art direction was a nice break from the Adventure games' realistic city, casino, temple, etc. settings, and it brought us back to the zany Japany cartoon settings that the "classic" games gave us. Almost every stage is colorful and eye catching, there's even a stage theme that's 99% lights and packs almost every color of the rainbow. Even battleships are colorful in this game!

Sonic Adventure 2 did look impressive, but it also looked as bland as untoasted bread with a side of water. Maybe it was the lighting, or it lacked that Sonic-y atmosphere? In my honest opinion, the only good looking stages in SA2 are Green Forest, White Jungle, and Radical Highway, because they're visual designs and stage designs (luk a dem LOOPS!) were actually interesting to look at and had great colors.

Fun Fact: Green and red are some of, if not the top eye-catching colors.

So yeah, I'm going with Heroes on this one. As an aspiring cartoonist, I appreciate colorful cartoony designs that pop. After all, it is what made Sonic the Hedgehog a real looker back in CES 1990!

Edited April 29, 2013 by @ut0

[Soniman]

Thank god, I can vote for Heroes now.

 

I see what SA2 was going for, I really do, but the thing is that SA1 did the whole "Sonic and friends in the real world" a million times better. It still felt like Sonic's world, and the humans/cities/whatever felt like they were built around that fact. SA2 just seems to shoehorn the characters into a world that's complete alien to them, you got realistic cities, realistic jungles, realistic desert areas, just a whole lot of brown and grey really. It's only in the Space Colony Ark levels where the game finally decides to go crazy with the asthetics, but alas to little to late.

 

Sonic Heroes, along with its cel shaded and cartoony look that I find tons more appealing to look at (sans the character models) the level tropes actually cover a wide range of stuff that you would actually find in a Sonic game. You got a shimmering Ocean Palace partnered with a Green Hill-Esque Seaside, A Haunted upside down castle with a Mansion to go with it, a Neon filled Casino with giant pinball and bingo machines, a Forest filled with giant mushrooms and frogs that summon rain, and a glorious airship fleet designed by the Eggman himself. even the CITY levels looks more original and imaginative than SA2's and that's saying a lot. Hell look at the MENUS for god's sake, all colorful and shit, now that's how you make a game stand out.

 

Heroes wins by a country mile.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Soniman

[JezMM]

Gruhgle.

 

I'm really tied on this one because Heroes undoubtedly has the better visuals - the vistas on display are simply breathtaking compared to SA1's claustrophobic stages and SA2's barren pits, but at the same time I LOATHE the FMV and character models.  SA2 was way better and had a much more down to earth and satisfying feel to them, and I way prefer Shadow and Rouge's original, darker skinned designs.

 

I'm... gonna go with SA2 because I like the character design and sense of world a little more.  While Heroes gets large amounts of kudos for its breathtaking views, the ugly overshiny character models (and what the fuck was going on with Eggman) just annoy me too much.

Edited April 29, 2013 by JezMM

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hmm...here's an interesting round. I really liked what SA2 went for, and really it was no more out of place than SA1 was, just that its difference in tone, elements, and themes had a different direction that more than justified them which i think we should keep in mind more when we apply criticism. Its says a lot when even ShTH had zany stages and still failed to pull off the same magic SA2 did overall, and this goes without saying how SA2 actually gets away with it even among many gamers who bash the series to this day for nostalgia reasons.

But I also liked Heroes' variety. I mean Grand Metropolis alone really sold me to its aesthetics. And to say nothing about the Egg Fleet, Bingo Highway, Rail Canyon. Although I feel I should mention that some stages like Frog Forest are like a brighter version of White Jungle from SA2, and Rail Canyon similar to Pumpkin Hill, before people start knocking down on SA2's level tropes, and that variety is what keeps it from being too similar. I mean, you guys already know how much fire I spew towards double standards over differences in tone, so I don't think I need to be a broken record and repeat it (unless someone wants me to).

Regardless, as far as the winner goes this'll probably be one of the few rounds Heroes, will be able to win. So I'll have to give this one up to Heroes.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Cyrus]

Although I feel I should mention that some stages like Frog Forest are like a brighter version of White Forest from SA2, and Rail Canyon similar to Pumpkin Hill, before people start knocking down on SA2's level tropes, and that variety is what keeps it from being too similar.

I just prefer Heroes' take on these themes because it handled them the way a Sonic game should. It made sure the stages were whimsical and toony, like something Willy Wonka would crap out. Even a desert would have to look zany if it was in a Sonic game.

See?

Also, I'll admit that Pumpkin Hill got the toony feel right, it's just as good looking as the majority of Heroes' stages.

Edited April 29, 2013 by @ut0

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not saying its a bad thing I'm just saying apply more critical attention to the similarities as well as those differences. Heroes' variety allows it to get away scot free, however, this is no excuse for people who claim SA1 does real world aesthetics better when it's cities and forest are no different on the design front, bar a few stages.

I know this is about SA2 vs. Heroes, but hearing SA1 brought into the discussion makes me want to point these things out. As there's no way you can tell me Mystic Ruins looks more Sonic-y than stages like White Jungle, Speed Highway to City Escape, or even the dingier parts of Final Egg to Security Hall when their graphics and general look are completely the same.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Cyrus]

I'm not saying its a bad thing I'm just saying apply more critical attention to the similarities as well as those differences.

I guess the majority of the fanbase just prefer wackiness in their Sonic stages. Then again, most of said majority have nostalgia goggles krazy glued to their faces and refuse to like things that don't look like Green Hill Zone or Chemical Plant...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Once again, I'm not saying its bad. But if wackiness is the case, exactly how much wacky is SA1? I mean there's Twinkle Park, which is definitely the wackiest SA1 has. But that's about it. SA1 is hardly any different in the art design than SA2, and the nostalgia goggles people have on it are completely blinding them to this fact.

Heroes? Now that's just impossible to deny its wackiness. If the checkered cliffs and grass of Seaside Hill didn't make it clear enough, Casino Park, Hang Castle, and although its more futuristic than wacky, Grand Metropolis will drive that point home for you.

[Cyrus]

The point is that SA1's stages, sans Twinkle Park (holy cow, Twinkle Park is, like, the pinnacle of what a 3D Sonic game that looks up to the classics should look like) and Emerald Coast, I guess, aren't as cartoony as the Genesis titles. But enough about SA1 and of this slight tangent.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Uh, Emerald Coast is straight up non-cartoony, bro. Hardly anything wacky about it.

At any rate, I'll wait for more points to chew out.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Cyrus]

The structure's a bit cartoony, with it's loops, ramps an-- aaah, I'm doing it again.

Know what else I love about Heroes' art direction? This isn't completely related to art, but I love how enemies have those text bubbles with exclamation marks and such floating above their head whenever they detect the player or take damage. Reminds me of humorous/exaggeration moments in anime and comics, which is probably what they were going for.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Auto

[Goldenlink64]

Gonna do a mini analysis between the two, let's see:

 

Sawnic Advantar Twuuu

 

I never understood why Sonic Adventure 1 and 2's "realistic" art-style is criticized so much. Yeah, I get that Sonic is a cartoony character and "should" be in a cartoony environment. But really if you ask me, I think all that matters is whether if the level looks good, and I think SA2 does a good job at making it's realistic levels look, well, good despite the Dreamcast's graphical limitations.

 

 

For what's just a city, City Escape is bright and colorful, it's probably the trees that help, but hey, they add to the color and it looks good when I'm speed running through.

 

 

Green Forest, jungle stages, giving you your healthy dose of green since 1991. Not much else I can say other than it really fits the game, heh...

 

 

Oh common, do I really need to say anything here? It's Final Rush! Anyway yeah, for a level in SPAAAAAAAAAACE, it's colorful as hell, lots of blue/purple in the background with bright yellow rails to contrast and make identifying paths easier. It's gooooooooooooood.

 

Sawneck Haros

 

Now Sonic Heroes is just gleaming with colors to the point where they might as well have called THIS game Sonic Colors. I mean, like, check it out:

 

 

Now I'm not exactly crazy about Grand Metropolis, but I won't deny how good it looks. The more advanced hardware allows you to have all these cities below as you run on a transparent energy... road... thing, and you know what? It looks great! A great mix of light blue, green... and everything really.

 

 

Oh my god, Scenery Porn, look at all those Eggman Robots Colors! Bingo Highway's a fun as hell level and the visuals definitely add to it too! All the flashing and varied colors really make you feel like you're in a casino. Other than that, really, I mean ju- LOOK AT IT!

 

 

Ah that healthy dose of green again. A lot brighter than SA2's Green Forest (YMMV if that's better or not), but it certainly fits with the type of vibe the game's got going, and you got those yellow/orange berries to contrast during platforming too. Another good looking level.

 

In the end, I'm going to have to say that both games look good, I mean, like, really good. They're both aesthetically pleasing just to look at and they both pull off what they're trying to convey without looking stupidly dark and bland like Shadow.

 

If I had to choose, I'd say Heroes's levels look a little bit better, though some of that also has to do with the hardware gap too. I'm not going to outright say that's the only reason it looks better though. Really, there's no way in hell SA2 would've bothered to pull off something like Grand Metropolis or Bingo Highway even if the hardware was available.

 

When it comes to character models though, blegh, I don't really like the character models that much, especially the FMVs. They're so shiny and wrapped in plastic! Argh! Tone it down and I'm good. Anyway where was I getting at... oh yeah.

 

And the winner is... SONIC HEROES!

 

While I prefer SA2's art-style, I won't deny that Heroes looks fantastic. Still looks great today, I could only imagine how good a Sonic Heroes 2 would look if it was made on current gen hardware.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The structure's a bit cartoony, with it's loops, ramps an-- aaah, I'm doing it again.

The same can be said of City Escape, Radical Highway, Metal Harbor, and the Ark stages. Take off those nostalgia goggles, it's only making you prove my point.

[Soniman]

The same can be said of City Escape, Radical Highway, Metal Harbor, and the Ark stages.

 

 

I think the loops are presented in a more zany fashion in Heroes, they can split three ways, be preposterously huge, and even repeat a few times in a row, can't really say the same for SA2 other than the City Escape building wall run.

 

. Take off those nostalgia goggles, it's only making you prove my point.

 

Well that's really uncalled for.

[Cyrus]

I've played the least Sonic-y Sonic games before the most Sonic-y ones, but I digress.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Auto