Sonic Adventure 2 v.s. Sonic Heroes - Round 4: Hype/Marketing

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think the loops are presented in a more zany fashion in Heroes, they can split three ways, be preposterously huge, and even repeat a few times in a row, can't really say the same for SA2 other than the City Escape building wall run.

That's kinda why I'm calling out the double standards between SA1 and 2. Not Heroes. I've made too many points on its wackiness, such that the loops are completely irrelevant as far as Art Style goes.

Well that's really uncalled for.

Well he was proving point, and the only reason I can see how would be nostalgia as far as comparing Emerald Coast goes. The loops and ramps aren't any more cartoony than that of SA2 or even Sonic 06 which went out of its way to completely replicate tEmerald Coast down to the core, so I fail to see it being uncalled.

Now if it came out offensively, then I apologize. I was just being honest about what I thought.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Solkia]

Ooh, the art.

 

Both games are absolutely visually appealing to me, but I'm going to be one of the oddballs and say I like Sonic Adventure 2's art better, for one reason:

 

The character models. Why are all the character models so shiny in Heroes? Why are Knuckles hands so massive? What is wrong with Eggman's teeth? I much prefer SA2's models.

 

EDIT: Since CSS mentioned it, no, not because of the SOAP shoes. Though I do like them.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Solkia

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I've noticed that no one said anything about Sonic's SOAP shoes yet...

[Lady Soniko]

Because Sonic's SOAPS aren't justifiable to instantly win in SA2's favour as awesome as they are, Heroes just has too much charm and detail in it's levels to even be scathed by the realistic nature and tone SA2 set in it's game, the only way it can win is via personal preference of the player, but strictly from an artistic view Heroes will always be leagues better. 

[Nepenthe]

Having more detail isn't inherently a plus (Rayman Origins has less detail than Call of Duty, but you'd be hardpressed to argue CoD has a better art style), nor is "charm" a quantitative descriptor. This entire argument's basis is one of personal preference.

[Lady Soniko]

Having more detail isn't inherently a plus (Rayman Origins has less detail than Call of Duty, but you'd be hardpressed to argue CoD has a better art style), nor is "charm" a quantitative descriptor. This entire argument's basis is one of personal preference.

 

I'm inclined to disagree with you on CoD being more detailed than something like Origin's since the backgrounds and characters are basically transitioned drawings so the amount of detail in said pieces was entirely down to the artist's who worked on it (and looking at the art book, there is a LOT of detail...) and I don't know how you can choose SA2's realistic nature over the masses amount of creativity that went into Heroes, even if it wasn't that great a game to most people, but what ever.

[Nepenthe]

CoD has significantly more physical detail going on than Rayman on account of it being real-time 3D. A single character model in CoD blows the entire rendering of the RO cast out of the water alone.

 

And I've always preferred SA2's art style. More color and detail doesn't equal better when you've got very little control or cohesiveness over that color and detail, like Unleashed does for example. I've always felt Heroes just came off as gaudy and cheap-looking, whether it be the plastic-looking character models not meshing at all with the more matte-styled surroundings, the ridiculous saturation that occurs without any real accounting for some semblance of balance in temperature or saturation, or the mix-and-match use of texture on similar objects, or the lighting. The best way I guess I could describe my visceral reaction towards merely looking at screenshots of the game is that it looks as if Episode 1 were done up in full 3D. It's just a lack of cohesion obscured by bright-ass reds and blues with plastic-looking characters thrown on top of it for good measure.

 

It's never sat well with me. In general, I just don't get Heroes' art as it is, nor do I automatically equate realism with a lack of quality in the art style of something and subsequently consider SA2 to look bad (I've always found this thought fucking weird). I think it's got a stronger sense of identity from possessing more solid color schemes, more varied atmospheres achieved as a result, highly interesting use of saturated accents in darker environments, and characters that look like they actually fit in the environment due to shading and adherence to the angular design schemes and sci-fi themes running throughout the environmental design.

[Soniman]

I wish I could argue these points, but I can't because I have no idea how to speak in the way you did D:

[Kuzu]

I wish I could argue these points, but I can't because I have no idea how to speak in the way you did D:

 

It takes years of philosophy courses, and big words

[Nepenthe]

Philosophy courses are boring as fuck. I just go to animation school. xP

[Solkia]

Eat a thesaurus, it worked for my english teacher.

[Soniman]

Philosophy courses are boring as fuck. I just go to animation school. xP

 

So do I and still barely comprehend that, guess I still have a long way to go, lol.

[Kuzu]

Chalk me up to the people that prefer SA2. The environments standout on their own despite being much more grounded in reality, and just feels more consistent. Heroes is just...all over the place, like there's almost no consistency; we go from a serene ocean to a futuristic city? wut? And its way too fucking bright, like everytime I played Heroes my burns would burn after a while, I have to make sure my entire room is bright as hell before playing it.

[Soniman]

Heroes is just...all over the place, like there's almost no consistency; we go from a serene ocean to a futuristic city? wut? 

 

Kind of like in Sonic 2 where you go from a Dark Cave to a Oil Refinery, or in Sonic 1 where you go from a City-like Spring Yard to a underground Waterway.

[Lady Soniko]

Someone please tell me what consistency has to do within a Sonic game? Last I remember nothing is consistent be it going from a tropical island to an underwater city, from Emerald Hill's to polluted chemical plants, from a tropical palm tree haven to a land filled with pinball bumpers and springs.

 

Last thing I remember from a Sonic game is brightly coloured and zaney levels, not realistic looking places (at least in that time frame, since I love Unleashed's art direction)

[Nepenthe]

So do I and still barely comprehend that, guess I still have a long way to go, lol.

 

That might be because my post is actually fucking balls. If I could simplify it:

 

To me, Heroes looks like Sonic 4. It throws color, texture, and shading around with very little regard for stages that look cohesive within themselves. To me, it's all just color for the sake of color, texture for the sake of texture, stuff for the sake of stuff, and as a result it looks kind of cheap. SA2 is more reserved in terms of color and texture, and thus more "realistic," but I feel it gets more out of it's style by having stages that adhere more strongly to artistic principles of balance, and also by stages that actually have significantly different atmospheres and feels (although this may be due to their narrative significance). The characters also fit better in their environments because, A.) they don't look like badly Photoshopped toys on a 3D background. and B.) Their overall style and the extra gear they wear takes notes from the environment that they actually exist in.

[Kuzu]

Kind of like in Sonic 2 where you go from a Dark Cave to a Oil Refinery, or in Sonic 1 where you go from a City-like Spring Yard to a underground Waterway.

 

We're not talking about Sonic 2 tho are we.

[Nepenthe]

Someone please tell me what consistency has to do within a Sonic game? Last I remember nothing is consistent be it going from a tropical island to an underwater city, from Emerald Hill's to polluted chemical plants, from a tropical palm tree haven to a land filled with pinball bumpers and springs.

 

Last thing I remember from a Sonic game is brightly coloured and zaney levels, not realistic looking places (at least in that time frame, since I love Unleashed's art direction)

 

Sonic stages themselves can be varied in terms of location and theme. This doesn't mean the actual art within the levels gets to throw in whatever the fuck it wants to and not suffer from an amateurish look; See Sonic 4 and the less-than-enthusiastic reactions to it as an example. Shitty art cannot hide behind the excuse of "Well, it's supposed to be varied." The basic principles still apply. We balance colors and textures because doing that means it's more pleasing to human eyes. Balance doesn't mean you're not allowed to use lots of color, or bright color. This is balanced and it's bright as hell. Balance in art generally means you know what the fuck you're doing. xP

[Soniman]

We're not talking about Sonic 2 tho are we.

 

.......

 

My point is that you're criticizing Heroes for something that is a very common theme with a lot of platformers (going from a level to a completely different/unrelated one without a reason pertaining to story), I just used a Sonic example because it was the most obvious, helI could use modern examples like the Advanced games as well.

[Kuzu]

.......

 

My point is that you're criticizing Heroes for something that is a very common theme with a lot of platformers (going from a level to a completely different/unrelated one without a reason pertaining to story), I just used a Sonic example because it was the most obvious, helI could use modern examples like the Advanced games as well.

 

But that wasn't my point tho. My point was the lack of consistency within the game itself, not with other platformers.

[Nepenthe]

I think the point is that you've not substantiated why a lack of consistency on the basis of location is actually a bad thing.

[Crash]

Okay, Heroes wins it for me but if we were using the HD SA2 as an example, SA2 would win.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Considering we're talking about Art Design, I think consistency is irrelevant here. That should have been argued in Stories in the last round.

 

I mean, hell, the entire series is inconsistent in settings as it is. Not really fair to chew out Heroes for it, and I'm critical of it as it is.

Because Sonic's SOAPS aren't justifiable to instantly win in SA2's favour as awesome as they are, 

And I implied that how?

 

So do I and still barely comprehend that, guess I still have a long way to go, lol.

And I'm studying to be a computer scientist who plans to be a novelist, yet I can argue almost like someone out of law school. It's all with experience, bro.

 

...well that and a shitload of time on your hands.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Goldenlink64]

Okay, Heroes wins it for me but if we were using the HD SA2 as an example, SA2 would win.

 

I'm pretty sure all versions of SA2 and Heroes are fair game.

[JezMM]

You know another part of the problem I think is there with Heroes?  The three characters.  You have these three brightly coloured characters AS WELL as all the colours every stage has.  It makes my mental image of Heroes be very chaotic and needlessly colourful.  And then all the enemies are bright oranges and greens and purples and silvers!

 

The majority of enemies in SA2 were black and white, very readable.  And because you only controlled one character it was much easier to blend them in with the envioronment too I think.

 

 

 

Oh, and since no-one's mentioned it, the user interface too!  Heroes has these massive chunky primary coloured menus, whereas SA2 has a very smooth and slickly animated subdued display.

 

 

 

BASICALLY EVERYTHING IN SONIC HEROES SHOUTS AT YOU

 

While Sonic Adventure 2 feels more like it chooses when it wants to put emphasis on something and when it doesn't.

 

 

(Actually when I think about it the two games feel this way regarding everything - level design, art, music, story, character dialogue...)

Edited April 29, 2013 by JezMM