Summer of Sonic 2013

[Katzii]

Another issue is people registering extra guests that end up not being used.

 

I'll admit, both my boyfriend and I were aiming for two places each, the reason being we figured that if one of us couldn't get a ticket, we could both attend on the same ticket of the person who managed. No doubt quite a lot of other people have tried this approach (understandably so), but at the same time it makes the demand problem even worse

 

So you exacerbated the issue, basically, by trying to do the same?  You had two people trying and are having even more try on the next wave!

 

At least people are able to return tickets to the organisers should they end up in that situation.  If anyone should be "complained" about, it would be people who got a ticket and then didn't try and return it if they have the opportunity to.  But even so, sometimes that just isn't possible; what if someone fell ill the day before the event, or their car broke down?  That's hardly their fault.

 

Must admit I'm a little irked that a couple of people who have got tickets have more or less said "I'm not massively interested but I may as well check it out" or similar things; if you're not desperate to go, save the ticket for someone who is. That might sound petty and selfish, but there are people, myself included, whose year will be ruined considerably if they can't attend. I'm not saying myself or people in a similar situation are any more or less entitled to go by any means, but it feels a little unfair for people who aren't even all that interested to snap up tickets at the cost people who are. 

 

The way that's worded though, you've kind of said that people who aren't as "massively interested" as you aren't entitled to go.  What if they want to scope out what the event is all about and see if it is something that takes their fancy?  People aren't going to know if they don't try and new people are going to be deterred if "veteran attendees" are getting annoyed that people who aren't absolutely interested are trying to go.

 

On top of which, different people get different things out of events like this.  Some people want to do everything and participate in everything, and some want to take a more laid-back approach.  Myself, I'm happy to go there, get some 3DS Streetpass hits, try to get into the art class and, if they have it, give Sonic Lost World a shot.  If I don't get to do anything else, I'm absolutely fine with that.  That doesn't mean I have any less right to be there because I don't plan to do as much.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Katzii

[Your Vest Friend]

 Never mind I don't think Sonic's that big, even in the UK. Most large conventions have tons to do... Sonic's just too niche to support that long of a convention I'd think.

 

No, Sonic is probably that big in the UK. The problem is that the team and resources behind SoS aren't big enough for it. 

Edited July 6, 2013 by VEDJ-F

[Tani Coyote]

Hogfather made a point about selling, but I'll make another point - You give your ticket away? Okay...so who do we contact if there's a fire and the person who now has the ticket is stuck inside?

I'm not sure I see what the point is here; I'm presuming you mean in the case of death or injury? I'd presume any sane person would tell their family and friends where they are. When the attendee doesn't come back the people they told can piece together what happened.

 

Next point: Adding charges. Well, this then brings in an issue of "How do we charge" for it, there's many route's there, each with it's own set of problems of varying types.

 

Summer of Sonic is run BY FANS For Fans with the aid and approval of SEGA Europe, that in itself already causes logistical and legal issues that we have to work through each year and to this end we've decided each year that keeping the event free is the best way to MINIMISE the issues for both us AND attendee's.

 

I hope you can understand our reasons why we choose to run the event in such a way.

 

It really is a sad catch-22, though I can certainly understand why it is the way it is.

As I recall, Sonic Boom originated from US fans lobbying SEGA on wanting a SoS of their own. Theoretically if all those who can't get a ticket lobbied SEGA Europe, it might likewise produce some good results...? I don't see why a country with such an intense following couldn't support two events instead of one.

 

No, Sonic is probably that big in the UK. The problem is that the team and resources behind SoS aren't big enough for it.

In that case, more reason to support a separate event on my part. Screw AnthroCon, I'm going to Britain every year if something like that ever happens!

[JayZeach]

I'm not sure I see what the point is here; I'm presuming you mean in the case of death or injury? I'd presume any sane person would tell their family and friends where they are. When the attendee doesn't come back the people they told can piece together what happened.

 

 

The point is it's a requirement for us as the event holder to contact someone in the case of an emergency, and we wouldn't have those details from someone just transferring a ticket away.

 

 

Also;

 

The ticket is your right of entry AND proof you've read and agreed to the terms and conditions. We can't prove someone who received a transfered ticket has read the T&C's...so therefore their ticket would be invalid. (As they too wouldn't be able to prove they read the T&C's).

[Tani Coyote]

The point is it's a requirement for us as the event holder to contact someone in the case of an emergency, and we wouldn't have those details from someone just transferring a ticket away.

 

The ticket is your right of entry AND proof you've read and agreed to the terms and conditions. We can't prove someone who received a transfered ticket has read the T&C's...so therefore their ticket would be invalid. (As they too wouldn't be able to prove they read the T&C's).

Ah, now these I can understand. Thank you.

I'm guessing that first part isn't a legal requirement in the States, given that some tickets have one's name on them and some do not. The latter one makes perfect sense however, regardless of location.

[JayZeach]

I'm guessing that first part isn't a legal requirement in the States, given that some tickets have one's name on them and some do not. The latter one makes perfect sense however, regardless of location.

 

Not here either. It depends on the nature of the event and the organisation behind it. This is where the logistical issues of fans organising a convention based on a corporations specific Intellectual Property come into play. We fall into many different demographics, so we have to cover different ground.

[Tani Coyote]

Not here either. It depends on the nature of the event and the organisation behind it. This is where the logistical issues of fans organising a convention based on a corporations specific Intellectual Property come into play. We fall into many different demographics, so we have to cover different ground.

You know, I mused to myself that I'd want to try and get some sort of fan-organised event going over here if SEGA ever gave up on Sonic Boom.

The more I read about this stuff, though, the more confident I am it'd just give me a massive headache. So many legal hoops to jump through, it's insane... I commend the team for keeping it up for so long.

[JayZeach]

You know, I mused to myself that I'd want to try and get some sort of fan-organised event going over here if SEGA ever gave up on Sonic Boom.

The more I read about this stuff, though, the more confident I am it'd just give me a massive headache. So many legal hoops to jump through, it's insane... I commend the team for keeping it up for so long.

 

There's absolutely nothing stopping you from sitting through that massive headache with some friends and working out what you'd need to make it work. A certain Dreadknux done that many years ago hehe.

 

It's just a matter of working on it untill you get there, regardless of scenario or location!

[JezMM]

The point is it's a requirement for us as the event holder to contact someone in the case of an emergency, and we wouldn't have those details from someone just transferring a ticket away.

 

But... you only take our address and a general contact number.  D=

 

I mean if I drop dead on the venue floor you're welcome to give me a ring or write a letter to my Dad but I don't think it would help much.

[bmn]

Okie, a nice little bit of debate here, so I'll add my own and hopefully clarify a few things from our point of view.

Firstly, can I make it clear that there is, and always has been, a lot of scope for registrants to change details in our ticketing system. You can modify details and resubmit the registration form at any time (if you've already received a ticket, this will invalidate it and the ticketing staff will look over the details again). Also, by emailing support@summerofsonic.com you can have any number of your additional people removed from the ticket, or can have the registration itself deleted, making all of your reserved places available again. The support email is there if you want to know if anything is possible regarding your registration.

The issue of people not making use of their tickets in the end has been mentioned a few times. In reality it's not actually an issue, as Covskin has intimated. We judge our numbers carefully based on what we expect the effective capacity (after adding equipment, staff and special guests) to be. By far the majority of people with tickets do come to the event, and the ticketing and security staff (including myself) were very happy with the turnout relative to the venue capacity last year. We aim to fill the venue without it becoming dangerously crowded, and by and large we've succeeded previously.

There's always the danger of abuse with free tickets, but we do all we can to minimise the risk of it by auditing each registration. The speed of the registration waves does make it easier to do so also.

 

Entry without tickets, to be completely frank, isn't going to happen again, and you only need to look at 2011 to understand why. Demand that year far outstripped anything SoS could provide either legally or literally, and I wouldn't wish a situation like that on visitors or the security staff (who I have a lot of respect for) again. At least three people passed out at pre-2012 SoS events due to overcrowding, and that's not something we should accept.

Charging actual money for tickets has been mooted time and again, and has also been considered on more than one occasion by the SoS staff. What perhaps isn't obvious - though the time it took to initially announce SoS this year would illustrate it - is that in working closely with Sega we deal with a lot of red tape. Things that could be ironed out in a few hours as a community team on our own, can often take weeks due to the realities of working with an international corporation like Sega. We, and our contacts at Sega, do our best, but that's the reality.

When money is involved, said red tape multiplies. There are tax issues, collection issues, issues of who holds the money, who issues refunds, who takes the fall if something goes wrong... If we use Paypal, they take money. If we use debit or credit cards, they take money. If we use a professional ticket supplier, they take even more money (Ticketmaster took 25% of Sonic Boom 2012's ticket price) and we have a harder time giving you those cool tickets to print off. SoS' ticketing system is a simple one in essence, and it's that simplicity that allows us to actually make it work in the real world. Adding actual money to it - including with refundable deposits - would drastically change that.

Plus, as Ogilvie has mentioned, we had a vision for SoS when we began in 2008, and up to now I think we've managed to avoid moving too far away from it.

Venue size is something we'd very much like to increase. But, well, moneys. If we charged 1000 people £5, that's £5,000 (ignoring all the taxation and charges). That'd get us... flights and hotels for Iizuka and his translator last year. Maybe. It wouldn't give us enough to add 500 people to our capacity, and even if we changed nothing else about the event it wouldn't stop SoS from being a huge loss-maker. SoS is to a certain extent a vanity project to Sega, but one that gives us the fans an incredible day, even if you're only watching the live stream. Similarly, if we increase the capacity, then we dilute what we have - queues for signing and playing games get longer, for example, and bringing more stuff and people, of course, means more money again.

All I can really say is that we make a lot of tough decisions in running SoS. There are things that we can't change, for various reasons, but those things that we can change, we do in the way that we think will benefit the event the most. Whether it works is something we discover later, but when it comes to ticketing, very quick waves aside, I think we have a system that suits SoS well.
 

[Covskin]

2 thoughts, not necessarily completely thought through.

 

1 - on the subject of a second event. What's to stop people trying to go to both? You'll still have an overwhelming demand.

 

2 - ticketing. I think its fair to say, monitised ticketing probably won't ever happen. So the only alternative to the current system I can think of is what the London Olympics had, a lottery. Set a date for the event (well in advance), so people know if they're available or not. Then, there's a 2 week period where people can register for up to four tickets. Once that's over, random lottery selects who gets to go. It prevents the mad rush for tickets, but you'll still end up with people feeling agreived that they didn't win. This would also be open to exploitation of course, plus you have 2+ weeks of not knowing if you're in or not. Would that be any better than what we have now? Who knows? I'm just rambling and now I'm going to stop.

[HelenBaby]

The demand is clearly there. A fan-centered Summer of Sonic, and a more official venue called whatever.Heck, could possibly just keep the Summer of Sonic name but add whatever city it's in. Summer of Sonic Edinburgh or something, for an example.I sympathise with the fact it's good to not have to deal with these hurdles. Hopefully some day everyone who wants to go will be able to.

Well there -are- the SonicLondon meets don't forget : http://soniclondon.com.

Edited July 7, 2013 by HelenBaby

[Tani Coyote]

1 - on the subject of a second event. What's to stop people trying to go to both? You'll still have an overwhelming demand.

The ticket price.

Furthermore, if an event inherently has money in its origin, it becomes easier to make it grow. Supply normally grows to meet demand, provided it's worth the cost. Likewise, as prices go up demand tends to decrease... eventually the consumer and producer both compromise; all a price is at the end of the day is the lowest a producer will sell and the highest a consumer will buy.

So let's say you have 500 tickets for this second, paid event. 2000 people want to go. Next year, it's increased to 1000 tickets. Those 2000 still wish to go. At that point, for a third year, it could be decided to raise prices to try and cut the demand back to 1000, or continue to expand.

A secondary event would be best in that it means SoS wouldn't lose its magic, while still letting countless fans get to appreciate a similar, if different, kind of magic.

There will inevitably be some people who "double dip," so to speak, but eventually the price will cut the excess demand, if standard economic practice is any indication. What keeps you from buying two cars, with so many available? The price, most likely. The price has naturally risen in response to supply and demand, and most people don't consume a ton accordingly.

 

2 - ticketing. I think its fair to say, monitised ticketing probably won't ever happen. So the only alternative to the current system I can think of is what the London Olympics had, a lottery. Set a date for the event (well in advance), so people know if they're available or not. Then, there's a 2 week period where people can register for up to four tickets. Once that's over, random lottery selects who gets to go. It prevents the mad rush for tickets, but you'll still end up with people feeling agreived that they didn't win. This would also be open to exploitation of course, plus you have 2+ weeks of not knowing if you're in or not. Would that be any better than what we have now? Who knows? I'm just rambling and now I'm going to stop.

 

Personally I think this is a fairer system. As it stands the system rewards people who happen to refresh at the right time or type quickly, to my knowledge. A lottery gives everyone a chance. Sortition is the fairest system there is, ultimately. It does not disadvantaged based on one's socioeconomic status (as price can), or internet speed (as first come first served can), or anything of the sort.

 

Well there -are- the SonicLondon meets don't forget : http://soniclondon.com.

Man, the more I hear about what the UK gets, the more I hate the fact I was born this side of the pond. I wish some giant tectonic shift or something would bring the UK next to the US so I could go there often!

I have a friend who lives in London though. He's always bummed about SoS because if he goes he goes alone. I think he'll be happy to hear about this.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[AAUK]

"WIZE FWOM YOUR GWAVE!"


*Appears in a puff of smoke wearing a wolf onesie which he quickly discards in horror*

So pleased SOS still means so much to so many. Ian touched on some matters but I can perhaps elucidate a little more.

DUE PROCESS

 

To confirm what Bmn says it is not as easy to do as you might think to get Summer of Sonic out of the door, there's a lot of hurdles. Legal, monetary, licencing, etc that need to be covered. All events, items and decisions have to be approved by SEGA, things can't be announced until they give a white gloved thumbs up. If announcements ever appear "late" that is because of this, needless to say behind the scenes the fan committee is doing their crust wanting to tell you things but cannot . It's a hurdle everyone has to live with I'm afraid, there's also local or district laws you have to look into. As a rule you also have to notify the Police, in case Hogfather leads you on a march to overthrow the Government or something. You've also now got the need to work round with Boom, since both events can't happen at the same time and then you have to balance guests, etc.

 

BALANCE & BUDGET

 

There is always a budget that has to be worked in, considering this is to be a free event for the reasons Ian listed above. It was considered on many occasions to have some sort of charge, in fact the £5 figure was something I suggested on several occasions but ultimately the costs outweigh the benefits.

In fairness to SEGA they have never wanted to make a penny on Summer of Sonic. We looked at  a fee to cover the event itself and also a global community fund to help both existing fansites who run it and newbies out with their running costs - something more tangible to help keep the online community itself running. In the end both of these ideas where nixed.

 

In regards to the money question, this isn't a secret. The budget is deteremined by SEGA and anything put into the kitty (sorry Big) by the organisers themselves. The budget is determined by SEGA's marketing which is in turn determined by the Sonic game available. SOS 2011 was the biggest logistically I believe - thats because we Sonic Generations AND 20th anniversary money. In fact SOS 2011 had more money than the ones prior combined which in comparison were run on a shoestring.

 

KEEPING IT "SUMMER OF SONIC"

 

There has never been anything stopping people organising their own events, in fact I seem to remember us telling you every single year from 2008 to do so! Though I would say create your own thing, the Summer of Sonic name is something attached specifically to an organisational team. Its why Boom is Boom. SOA (without asking) originally planned to call it SOS but it had nothing to do with us so we said it could not be called that. 

 

There is also the need, again as Ian mentioned, to keep Summer of Sonic as Summer of Sonic. There's a reason it's so special to everyone. Over the years myself and Svend and now Rory and Adam have worked with SEGA to maintain that balance. There have been occasions where, yes SEGA have said we cannot do things or have specific items which seem obvious to us we should be able to do. At the same time there's times where SEGA have suggested something where first we said "No." then we got outta there. 

SPRING/AUTUMN/WINTER OF SONIC

 

In regards to an additional SEGA run UK event... I honestly don't think it'd happen guys.

 

SEGA Europe doesn't really exist much anymore and SEGA staff have been a rare breed at SOS in previous years. You forget minus any guests the only member of SEGA staff "working" the day for SOS 2008-2010 was me on my lonesome.  It was only 2010 that anyone from SEGA even showed up to see what was going on! The sad reality is SEGA simply don't have the resources or time to organise another similar style event. Neither do they have anyone from their side now who would make the running on such. Its why its always been that the community associated members that take the lead. They've always been the best judge of such things and have the passion to see a project like this through. 

 

Even the fans only have so much time in their lives to devote to creating an SOS, they give of their time freely.

 

Best of luck to all those still after tickets today, I hope to see you there on August 3rd.
-AAUK-

Edited July 7, 2013 by ArchangelUK

[Tani Coyote]

Thank you for your input, AAUK! It's always good to see the perspective from the other side of things.

 

There was actually an issue on naming between Boom and SoS? I find that rather humorous! Well, it must have been flattering if nothing else that Boom wanted to use the name.

 

The point on SEGA's resources is very true; I'm always scared of when Sonic Boom will inevitably be turned over to the American fanbase to keep alive. I hope we're ready for it... I predict quite a few folks running to the SOS team for advice (while the legal specifics may be different, the overall concept is the same)! Overall it sounds like it's up to the fans to carry the torch past this point; I'm sure SEGA won't mind the free advertising and capability to sell merchandise at such venues. Maybe some other fan convention will pop up in the UK, one officially sponsored even! SOS has made SEGA (regardless of region) open to the idea it looks like.

 

Now I'm actually curious: does SEGA sell any merchandise at these venues? Now that I think about it, that'd probably go a long way towards recouping the cost. It goes without saying that the fans who go are among the most devoted, so with the right merchandise one doesn't see often...

[MarcusTheRocker]

Cosplay contest announcement:

http://2013.summerofsonic.com/news/event-announcement-summer-of-sonic-cosplay-contest

[AAUK]

There was actually an issue on naming between Boom and SoS? I find that rather humorous! 

Just a point of order that we've mentioned before. It was indeed flattering. But yes, a different beast so a different name appropriate as was agreed by all.

Edited July 7, 2013 by ArchangelUK

[Badnik Mechanic]

Now I'm actually curious: does SEGA sell any merchandise at these venues? Now that I think about it, that'd probably go a long way towards recouping the cost. It goes without saying that the fans who go are among the most devoted, so with the right merchandise one doesn't see often...

 

Yes and no.

 

Technically, I could argue that both SOS and Boom are basically events for selling Sonic, which is probably why Sonic Chronicles made it to the first SOS and theres been a new game at both events every year. And not just selling to fans. When you think about it, both Boom and SOS have been used at trade events like Vegas Licensing and Brand Licensing Europe.

 

In terms of actually Sega making money.

 

There is no way Boom makes any money. Even if they sold 100% of the tickets, there is no way it makes money. Take out wages for people alone and it would barely cover it. Fact they provide food and drink for free, the bands cover fee, tech hire, venue hire. No way it makes money.

 

SOS, it's a free event.

 

Not sure how merch sells at Boom, but at SOS, official merchandise is sold by Sonic Merchandise, at least it has been the last 2 years, not sure if that'll be the case this year just yet.

 

However, that money would go to Sonic Merchandise who are Segas official partner. So the licenses bought by the people who make those products may get more orders which would mean Sega can sell more licenses/at a better rate for products in the future.

[Tani Coyote]

Technically, I could argue that both SOS and Boom are basically events for selling Sonic, which is probably why Sonic Chronicles made it to the first SOS and theres been a new game at both events every year. And not just selling to fans. When you think about it, both Boom and SOS have been used at trade events like Vegas Licensing and Brand Licensing Europe.

My father's a businessman and we've actually had discussions on the profitability of such events. He's convinced that since it loses money on its face there's no point in having one. I say it helps push the product and gives people a sampling. Though with how dedicated most congoers are and the fact demos have been proven to apparently LOWER purchases, I'm starting to wonder. Though the promotion of comics and merchandise probably helps down the road.

 

Not sure how merch sells at Boom, but at SOS, official merchandise is sold by Sonic Merchandise, at least it has been the last 2 years, not sure if that'll be the case this year just yet.

 

However, that money would go to Sonic Merchandise who are Segas official partner. So the licenses bought by the people who make those products may get more orders which would mean Sega can sell more licenses/at a better rate for products in the future.

I didn't check out the merch last time because it looked like it was just Crush 40 and Cash Cash shirts. This year I'm bringing some extra money just in case they actually decide to have a real opportunity. Sonic Merchandise was there though to get people to sign up... shame the site seems kind of lackluster from what I've heard about them.

Thank you for the insight regardless!

 

 

Cosplay contest announcement:

http://2013.summerofsonic.com/news/event-announcement-summer-of-sonic-cosplay-contest

Looks like a good bit of fun!

I wanted to go as either Dark Enerjak, Fleetway Super Sonic or Lightning Lynx at Boom but alas, I didn't get around to making a costume because I didn't know whether there'd be an event at all (thank you corporate lag). Maybe next year!

In the meantime I hope you guys have a good bit of fun.

Hopefully it's not biased like ours is. You get bonus points for speaking Japanese at Sonic Boom's event. Like, wow, really?

[Badnik Mechanic]

This is official.

 

Wave 2 Sold out in 7 seconds.

 

Total time to sell out SOS 2013 = 13 seconds.

 

69 tickets per second.

[Sarger001]

OMGYES!!!

I'M IN!

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW HAPPY I AM THAT I'M IN!

OMG

OMG

OMG

OMG

YEEEESSSSS!!!!

[Jolt_TH]

Congrats to all those who have tickets

[Bisylizzie]

Wow, there was something kinda exciting about that... xD

 

But yes, congrats to all those who got tickets!

 

May have mentioned before, but I managed to grab two, one for me, one for my brother, so I'm looking forward to it! Just got to finalise travel down there There's something quite exciting about thinking about the event coming up...

[C4k3]

OMGYES!!!

I'M IN!

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW HAPPY I AM THAT I'M IN!

OMG

OMG

OMG

OMG

YEEEESSSSS!!!!

 

I'm with you on that!

 

Now all I have to do is work out travel expenses and I'm good! Can't wait to go and meet all you guys!

 

Also, other than ID and the ticket of course, is there anything else we need to do in order to get into SoS?

Edited July 7, 2013 by TheCakeMiester

[xSinisterStrike]

I'm a bit of a SOS n00b and I got in the 2nd wave. The FAQs say doors open at 10 with events starting at 11am. Do doors remain open all day as I woudn't be able to arrive until 12:30ish.