Sega 2013 "We release awesome games and tell nobody!"; " READ POST 498

[T-Min]

Jesus, people sure can get hostile when there's no Sonic announced, huh?

The hilarious thing is, when it finally does come out, about half of us will probably hate it. :V

[Semi-colon e]

Jesus, people sure can get hostile when there's no Sonic announced, huh?

 

Chances are, people will get more hostile when it is announced and the gameplay/story/characters/whatever arguments begin anew. Tensions are always highest when a new game is coming out due to all the hype or exaggerated expectations or exasperation at seeing stuff you didn't want in the game or something like that. After a while once the game's out it calms down, and people become less emotionally involved with it.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[smogfog]

The hilarious thing is, when it finally does come out, about half of us will probably hate it. :V

Variety of opinions represents healthy, thinking community.

[DarkRula]

That is so true.

Why bother posting a rumour if there is nothing to it.

Half of he community will probably hate it, then making people more hostile.

All I say is keep calm and keep a clear head. Only then will you make it through the day without going berserk over rumours. However, good of this forum for saying it's fake and for trying to make others see sense.

And like I said before, does any random person posting of a 'rumour' instantly get everyone hyped?

[T-Min]

Variety of opinions represents healthy, thinking community.

What, so I'm not allowed to poke fun at a bit irony?

 

Isn't it ironic? Don't cha think?

 

 

i will never let it go

 

But *ahem*, to keep from derailing the topic too much, at the very least, I'm looking forward to the fact that the debates this game sparks will make the Sonic Discussion forums interesting for me again. I can only talk about the same stuff for so long before I stop paying attention to the forum altogether. :I

[TheOcelot]

Chances are, people will get more hostile when it is announced and the gameplay/story/characters/whatever arguments begin anew. Tensions are always highest when a new game is coming out due to all the hype or exaggerated expectations or exasperation at seeing stuff you didn't want in the game or something like that. After a while once the game's out it calms down, and people become less emotionally involved with it.

 

 

It's like a never ending vicious cycle with Sonic games. They could always stop making them, but that would be no fun.

 

A rumour about an announcement next month (a release date which most of us could have guessed anyway) is frustrating because it doesn't tell us anything. It's like when I got annoyed with what Scarred Sun said about the new game being different from the previous instalments. There is only so much she could tell us (which is perfectly understandable), but saying the new game is going to be different is almost more annoying than not saying anything at all about it.

Edited May 2, 2013 by -Bender-

[azoo]

Whatever they do, I just hope that they're putting a good bit of effort into it. They have to if they're spending two years in complete secrecy about it. Its pretty impressive, actually, that they've made it this far.

 

On that note, this will be the first mainstream Sonic game in a while that isn't being shuffled out to fit a strict timeframe. Colors was wrapped up and finished rather quickly (thanks to starting as a Wii version of Gens), and because of that same reason it seems they cut corners making Generations in time for the 20th anniversary. 

 

So with that in mind, that really makes me think. Those two games were kind of pushed out the door in a "go-go-go" fashion, so what will we get in the next big Sonic? This is the first time in a while that they've only worried about one main game for an extended period of time. Does this mean more content? More story? More characters? More replayability?

Who knows. Considering Unleashed was the last game that went through a sole development cycle like this, though, its likely this game will have much more content to offer than the previous two games. And if that idea stands true then I'll be good. 

 

I was just disappointed with how little both Colors and Generations had to offer. No really engaging story, nothing to keep me invested or keep me playing through levels again, not much of anything; even if a lot of design decisions were miles ahead of what Unleashed gave. All I ask for is more. Just.. more. Taking advantage of what the series has going for it and cranking it up to 11.

 

No more "play it safe". We're past the 20th anniversary. Please just let the focus now be "make something good."

Edited May 2, 2013 by Azookara

[Chaos Warp]

Whatever they do, I just hope that they're putting a good bit of effort into it. They have to if they're spending two years in complete secrecy about it. Its pretty impressive, actually, that they've made it this far.

 

On that note, this will be the first mainstream Sonic game in a while that isn't being shuffled out to fit a strict timeframe. Colors was wrapped up and finished rather quickly (thanks to starting as a Wii version of Gens), and because of that same reason it seems they cut corners making Generations in time for the 20th anniversary. 

 

So with that in mind, that really makes me think. Those two games were kind of pushed out the door in a "go-go-go" fashion, so what will we get in the next big Sonic? This is the first time in a while that they've only worried about one main game for an extended period of time. Does this mean more content? More story? More characters? More replayability?

Who knows. Considering Unleashed was the last game that went through a sole development cycle like this, though, its likely this game will have much more content to offer than the previous two games. And if that idea stands true then I'll be good. 

 

I was just disappointed with how little both Colors and Generations had to offer. No really engaging story, nothing to keep me invested or keep me playing through levels again, not much of anything; even if a lot of design decisions were miles ahead of what Unleashed gave. All I ask for is more. Just.. more. Taking advantage of what the series has going for it and cranking it up to 11.

 

No more "play it safe". We're past the 20th anniversary. Please just let the focus now be "make something good."

Colours and Generations had things to keep you interested though. Colours had red rings, the Sonic Simulator stages

With playable (in actual levels) Super Sonic as a reward for completing it (Do I have to spoiler tag this? Yes? No? IDK)

and the ability to replay levels with wisps you unlocked in other levels to find new paths. Generations had fun extra missions and a cool non-intrusive skill system with skills to work for and unlock. The only thing really missing at this point is a more involving story, which is where it really comes down to personal taste because for me, no amount of incredible storytelling can keep me playing a game/interested in playing a game if I don't enjoy the gameplay (that's what Youtube is for) and characters other then Sonic playable, which is something I really want but the games can be plenty good without. As much as I'd like the storytelling in Sonic to improve and the ability to play as someone other then Sonic, that's just what I think. 

 

And don't imply Colours and Generations had no effort put into them, please. Just because they didn't have a big story or hub worlds and all that jazz doesn't mean they had no effort put into them. Clearly the effort in those games went into refining the gameplay, which is never a bad place to focus efforts. 

Edited May 2, 2013 by Generations (Chaos Warp)

[Blue Blood]

Chaos Warp, I think the point Azukara was making just went completely over your head. He didn't say no effort went into Gens and Colours, rather that they were forced out for strict deadlines and that he hopes this time won't be the same. Both games were short and lacking in content, especially content worth replaying. This much is nigh-indisputable.

[Diogenes]

Colours and Generations had things to keep you interested though. Colours had red rings, the Sonic Simulator stages

With playable (in actual levels) Super Sonic as a reward for completing it (Do I have to spoiler tag this? Yes? No? IDK)

and the ability to replay levels with wisps you unlocked in other levels to find new paths. Generations had fun extra missions and a cool non-intrusive skill system with skills to work for and unlock.

Colors' red rings only existed to unlock Simulator stages, which sucked, and only existed for wonky multiplayer and to unlock Super Sonic, who sucked. Most of the missions in Generations aren't worth playing past beating or S-ranking them (depending on how much of a completionist you are), and most of the skills were either boring or severely restricted. It's a lot of busywork and not much actual interesting content.

The only thing really missing at this point is a more involving story, which is where it really comes down to personal taste because for me, no amount of incredible storytelling can keep me playing a game/interested in playing a game if I don't enjoy the gameplay

No one's suggesting that they should skimp on the gameplay in favor of the story; they should be trying to do well with both.

And don't imply Colours and Generations had no effort put into them, please. Just because they didn't have a big story or hub worlds and all that jazz doesn't mean they had no effort put into them. Clearly the effort in those games went into refining the gameplay,

Pffff the gameplay barely even changed.

[Thigolf]

Pffff the gameplay barely even changed.

So, Sonic 2 and 3 & Knuckles had no effort put into them, too? >__>

[Chaos Warp]

Chaos Warp, I think the point Azukara was making just went completely over your head. He didn't say no effort went into Gens and Colours, rather that they were forced out for strict deadlines and that he hopes this time won't be the same. Both games were short and lacking in content, especially content worth replaying. This much is nigh-indisputable.

Well, how long can a Sonic Game be? Sonic goes fast, and that requires making big levels and well......even with longer dev cycles and stuff there's still only so much time you have and so much disk space you have. Unleashed was longer because it was really padded out (medals and such) and the Werehog stages took way too long, at least Colours and Generations give me a shorter experience that I actually want to play, and by that I mean the whole thing, not just one half of it. (I.E. daytime stages in Unleashed). IMO the focus should be on crap-tons of replayability instead of just a longer game. They could do better with this I admit, but how is going back to find more paths with a new wisp not worthwhile to do in Colours? How is doing one of the side missions you chose not to do to progress when you first played through not worthwhile in Generations (admittedly I think Colours had more replay value then Gens does)? And also, since they give you a ranking system, how is going back to levels to try to bump up your rank not worthwhile? 

 

IMO there is good replay value here. Sonic just needs more then most games because his games are over with quicker because of his speed. 

 

And I wasn't trying to imply that Azu though Colours and Gens had no effort put into them, just that he thought that they had less​ effort put into them for some reason, which I don't agree with. 

Replies in bold. 

No one's suggesting that they should skimp on the gameplay in favor of the story; they should be trying to do well with both.

But gameplay should always be more important because...well......it's a game, not a movie. 

Pffff the gameplay barely even changed.

Um, Generations had tons more 3d platforming then Colours and much improved controls. 

[Diogenes]

So, Sonic 2 and 3 & Knuckles had no effort put into them, too? >__>

2 and 3&K put more work into other areas than in "refining the gameplay". If Colors and Generations supposedly focused on refining the gameplay to the exclusion of other areas, well, that's some pretty sad refinement.

But gameplay should always be more important because...well......it's a game, not a movie.

Congrats on missing the point. Again, no one is suggesting that they skimp on the gameplay in favor of the story. They should be doing both well.

Um, Generations had tons more 3d platforming then Colours and much improved controls.

They threw in some more platforms that don't really integrate with Sonic's abilities or way of moving and he's a little less clumsy at low speeds. That's about it.

[Semi-colon e]

Just making the games a bit more difficult (legitimately, please) could do wonders, half the reason people blitz though Colours and Generations is because they're easy games. Unleashed was a dickish kind of hard and Heroes and 06 are just glitchy, but honestly half the time even with difficulty in mind, Sonic games are always going to suffer from length issues, and most of the longer Sonic games are so because of padding (06, Unleashed), or are painfully short (particularly the likes of Colours, and that's both versions too).

 

Generations did well with making levels wider (sometimes, not always though), they should just roll with that and make levels that have more and more pathways and shit, where you're still finding shit years later (though only today I found a segment of Planet Wisp Act 1 that I didn't know existed actually). 3&K didn't need hub worlds or side missions to have replay, it just had alternate paths and things to see and do out of the ASS, along with a fair bit of challenge along the way.

 

I like the red rings though. Keep the red rings, only make the unlockables better. Fuck you Sonic 4 for just giving you a lousy achievement!

Edited May 2, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[SuperLink]

I think the main problem with the difficulty of games like Colours/Unleashed/Gens is that they practically rely on trial and error and bottomless pits. Unleashed-style difficult isn't good when it mostly revolved around falling down until you got your trajectory right or jumped at the right time. I wish they could make a 3D Sonic with challenge that didn't revolve around bottomless pits.

 

But unfortunately the nature of boost and stages that go so fast make that difficult.. trial and error is inevitable unless they change the formula totally.

 

If they want to keep the formula, I would suggest making dying more streamlined and removing lives a la Rayman Origins. No one in the world dislikes Rayman Origins (probably) and it relies heavily on trial and error but it makes it work, it's a fundamental part of the game design to the point where it influences the game's flow, regular checkpoints, infinite lives, and it makes losing humorous too! It's all part of the experience.

 

So imo if they wanna continue with the current formula they should take a leaf from that book.

 

Or they could make a totally new formula which would be ok so long as it was good.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SuperLink

[Nepenthe]

Friendly reminder: Modern Sonic Conversation #4765 doesn't really need to be taking place here, guys.

[Diogenes]

Rayman also tends to move at a pace where you can reasonably react, rather than "press X for Warp Speed".

Honestly I don't think all that much of Origins was trial and error-y, anyway.

e: whoops

Edited May 2, 2013 by Diogenes

[KrazyBean]

Jesus, people sure can get hostile when there's no Sonic announced, huh?

 

That's because people can't contain their eagerness to bash the crap out of it.

[Diogenes]

Hey hey, I'm only going to bash whatever crap there is in it, out of it. If it's crap-free I could hardly bash any out, now could I?

[Chaos Warp]

Replies in bold. 

2 and 3&K put more work into other areas than in "refining the gameplay". If Colors and Generations supposedly focused on refining the gameplay to the exclusion of other areas, well, that's some pretty sad refinement.
I don't know, there's isn't much refinement between 1, 2, and 3k other then the gameplay (with the exception of 3K having slightly more story told in-game and playable Tails and Knux). Sonic 1 laid the groundwork, Sonic 2 made the level design a lot more balanced between speed and platforming, and Sonic 3K made the levels even bigger and with an even better balance between speed and platforming (IMO the perfect balance) The classic games are basically refinements of each other with new levels, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Congrats on missing the point. Again, no one is suggesting that they skimp on the gameplay in favor of the story. They should be doing both well.

But as long as they do the gameplay well, having the story not done well is forgivable in the grand scheme of things because..well..again, it's a game, not a movie. Not that I think story doesn't matter in a game, but gameplay IMO is always a lot more important. 
They threw in some more platforms that don't really integrate with Sonic's abilities or way of moving and he's a little less clumsy at low speeds. That's about it.

Just because you have a boost doesn't mean the level design has to make you use it 24/7. And if you play Unleashed and Gens back to back, you'll find that they control a lot different and Generations controls a ton better. 

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh shit wait, Nepenthe told us to call off? Sorry, didn't see that until now. I'll stop. 

Edited May 2, 2013 by Generations (Chaos Warp)

[Gabz Girl]

I'm going to LMAO when the trailer is released and it's a Sonic game with more gimmicks, which will make the fanboys RAGE. And of course "omg he has green eyes nuuuu!" But if they get angry about multiple playable characters (*crosses fingers*) I'll be the one who's raging at them. XP

[KrazyBean]

I'm going to LMAO when the trailer is released and it's a Sonic game with more gimmicks, which will make the fanboys RAGE. And of course "omg he has green eyes nuuuu!" But if they get angry about multiple playable characters (*crosses fingers*) I'll be the one who's raging at them. XP

 

I don't even know what the majority of Sonic fans want from the next Sonic game apart from an abundance of 3D platforming (no 2D sections) with tons of alternate paths, a good story, nerfed or no boost and multiple playable characters.

Edited May 2, 2013 by KrazyBean

[Chaos Warp]

I don't even know what the majority of Sonic fans want from the next Sonic game apart from an abundance of 3D platforming (no 2D sections) with tons of alternate paths, a good story, nerfed or no boost and multiple playable characters.

The majority of Sonic fans were satisfied with Colours and Generations, so they probably want more of that.

[SuperLink]

It does make sense for SEGA to want to play it safe.

 

However, I think it also makes sense that SEGA will feel a little confident in their restructuring and actually try to make something really impressive for once. The last time they tried that was with Sonic 06.. it obviously didn't go well, but we know that SEGA have a history of trying to do (for want of a better word) "epic" things with Sonic.

 

I think we'll just need to wait and see, I honestly couldn't say which I believe is more likely right now.

[Gabz Girl]

Yeah, who knows. They might be playing it safe again though deep down I really hope they don't. Considering we have heard nothing from this game however and that it must've been in development for at least 2 years, I think it's going to be something special.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Gabz Girl