Amicable Sonic Unleashed Status Updates Discussion - Mod Approved.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Before anyone gets on my case for opening a sealed wound, Tornado, after many days of discussion with the other moderators, has given me permission to start this topic on the grounds that I keep it as amicable as possible. The quote is down below for your convenience:

 

 

 

 

My part in the status update war:

 

Now as many of you no doubt know, I was as much as reason for the arguments in the status updates as anyone else, even moreso because I said many hurtful and disgusting things and acted in a frenzied and nasty manner. For that, I apologize. I knew better than to say what I said, and yet I did so anyways without any thought of the consequences, and I will not do something like this again.

 

The topic in question:

 

Unleashed, the subject in question, is a controversial game that can be best described as a "love it or hate it" type of game, although there are those in the middle. Naturally, this has resulted in many discussions about it's quality as a whole, and for the most part, they have been a little heated, but were generally well thought out, friendly discussions.

 

But then, there are THESE types of posts:

 

 

These comments, as you can see, are not just a recent event (although I had a hard time finding anything further beyond this point, and I didn't want to clutter up the image too much), but one that has been spanning over the course of several weeks, perhaps even longer.

 

I find these posts frustrating for lack of a better word, because they undermine the civility of the discussions regarding these games, they are outright insulting towards those who go out of there way to defend Unleashed for it's merits and devalue arguments by reducing them to mere strawmen, and worst of all, these posts come from otherwise respectable and intelligent members.

 

Arguments can be made that this kind of thing happens to every game, and that I'm just overreacting, but when I see this kind of thing in such a great volume, and so frequently, I can't help but feel that "overreacting" is just an excuse for the behavior and attitudes behind these kinds of condescending posts. And that's a pity too, because these members do have valid points to make about Unleashed, but they are undermined by this sniping at the people who they are supposed to be having a decent discussion with.

 

People are allowed to have their own opinions about games, but there are better ways to do it without resorting to this. A good example would be SSMB veteran Diogenes, who holds a strong dislike for the game in question, but I can respect this because he is frank and blunt about it, he does his best to post in a constructive and intelligent manner (YMMV), and he doesn't resort to snide comments to do so. I don't agree with him, but I can respect his opinion on the matter and his attitude.

 

So where am I going with all of this? Well, really it's just to ask: "WHY is this being done, and can't we at least have a relatively well reasoned and less unsavory method of discussing it without resorting to this?" Maybe I am being too thin-skinned or whatever, but I really do just want to know, and maybe something can be worked out.

 

Thank you for reading, and I hope didn't get too nasty about this.

Edited May 6, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[Nepenthe]

I'm glad you posted this before I did, because I wasn't going to be as level-headed about it as I usually am.

The way I've seen what's going on is that Unleashed fans themselves are being intentionally antagonized in the statuses every month or so- beyond just mere criticism of the game- and when I, Verte, or someone else calls out the shitty antagonizing, people hide behind this frustrating veil of "You're being too sensitive" or "Why can't I hate this game in public?" or "Colors/Gens fans have it just as bad" (a veritable lie from what I've seen) in order to completely deflect any criticism of their shitty behavior.

In short, this is "Green Eyes" and Anti-Pony level of douchebaggery, and I'm sick of it. It's not about the stupid game anymore; it's about blatant disrespect to fellow members and I want the shit to stop.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I'm glad you posted this before I did, because I wasn't going to be as level-headed about it as I usually am.

The way I've seen what's going on is that Unleashed fans themselves are being intentionally antagonized in the statuses every month or so- beyond just mere criticism of the game- and when I, Verte, or someone else calls out the shitty antagonizing, people hide behind this frustrating veil of "You're being too sensitive" or "Why can't I hate this game in public?" or "Colors/Gens fans have it just as bad" (a veritable lie from what I've seen) in order to completely deflect any criticism of their shitty behavior.

In short, this is "Green Eyes" and Anti-Pony level of douchebaggery, and I'm sick of it. It's not about the stupid game anymore; it's about blatant disrespect to fellow members and I want the shit to stop.

 

Let's just say my original mental drafts were a great deal nastier, but frankly I don't want Tornado to shut my ass down, and also everytime I've been nasty about something, it always backfired in my face. And frankly, I just want answers now, and I won't get them if I'm being a tool about it.

[Soniman]

I can't help but feel that my Unleashed vs Colors topic was the catalyst of this somewhat, due not being as nearly as apparent as it was before, not to mention once a week there would always be a mini-war in the statuses whenever a new round would start; :/

[Vertekins]

So where am I going with all of this? Well, really it's just to ask: "WHY is this being done, and can't we at least have a relatively well reasoned and less unsavory method of discussing it without resorting to this?"

 

Because certain people, in their lack of tact, have to resort to making out that they view the fans that give Unleashed well-deserved credit regarding "superficial" aspects such as story, presentation and worldbuilding have no credibility whatsoever. This is very much akin to those who label Sonic 4's haters on the basis of green eyes as idiots except for the fact that the Unleashed fans actually have completely reasonable and non-ridiculous reasons as to why they like Unleashed. Because the Unleashed haters HAVE to make Unleashed look bad no matter what, they go to the level of undermining perfectly salient points in defence of it as well as insult it's fans.

 

Part of this is undoubtedly because of said people's love of Colours; Any defence of Unleashed, no matter how credible, is seen as an attack on Colours for some reason because Unleashed has what it doesn't have regardless over whether or not Colours is ever even mentioned in the Unleashed's liker's proclamation. So it degenerates into a Colours Vs Unleashed war because the Unleashed fans are sick and tired of Colours bringing brought up when it isn't relevant to the point they're getting across and becausethe Colours fans, by comparison, see th game as far superior and that many arguments to the contrary or even perfectly salient criticism are null and void.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Vertekins

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I can't help but feel that my Unleashed vs Colors topic was the catalyst of this somewhat, due not being as nearly as apparent as it was before, not to mention once a week there would always be a mini-war in the statuses whenever a new round would start; :/

I don't blame you for this, and frankly I acted like an ass to you on more than one occasion. Sorry.

[Semi-colon e]

It goes like this:

Unleashed gets a lot of love on these forums compared to other places.

People disagree.

Debate ensues. This is notable as a lot of the notable Unleashed likers aren't keen on Colours (Nepenthe, E.D, a few other people) so it's assumed it's a jab at Colours.

Statuses happen and therefore it gets more heated.

Godwin's Law gets invoked.

People get REALLY MAD.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[Chaos Warp]

Well..............if I'm going to be perfectly honest with you........................I don't think you should take these comments too seriously. No one actually intents to hurt you, and in the end......it's just a game. Why should you care if people take jabs at it, you don't have to feel obligated to defend it, you like the game and that's that. I think you're taking this too seriously, no one actually took personal jabs at you, just at the game itself. 

 

In the end it's just a game, no need to take it so seriously. 

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I'm gonna put my head on the line and try and present the case of the Antis. God help me.

 

I think both sides are rather confused with each other. The Pro-Unleashed fans see the above posts as yet more bile spewed at a game they just happen to like, and (usually) react with with some swiftness to put a stop to things. The Anti-Unleashed guys, on the other hand. see the above as just dumb jabs at a game they don't like. Maybe they're being a bit tough, but it's all in good fun (I dare you to read that "UnleaSHIT" comment in a completely serious tone). The Pro-Unleashed guys coming in and hastily defending their game, then, seems over-reactionary and overly serious. Think of it as you joking with your pal about... uh... Twilight, and then out of nowhere these Twilight fans start laying their case down for why it's totally not crap you jerks knock it off. It comes as baffling, in part, because tone is so hard to get across in plain text. A lot of bile gets mistaken for joking and vice versa, and it only serves to make things tense around here.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Well..............if I'm going to be perfectly honest with you........................I don't think you should take these comments too seriously. No one actually intents to hurt you, and in the end......it's just a game. Why should you care if people take jabs at it, you don't have to feel obligated to defend it, you like the game and that's that. I think you're taking this too seriously, no one actually took personal jabs at you, just at the game itself. 

 

In the end it's just a game, no need to take it so seriously. 

 

It's no longer about the game, but about people who are acting in a condescending manner, getting away with it, and then repeating the process over and over until things become nothing more than a mindless brawl.

[Sean]

First of all the jokes aren't actually funny so pulling the "I'm just joking" card is super lame because these are in fact rather shit jokes, have you ever thought of that?

 

Secondly, no. There does come a point where you really need to think about what you're saying because the people who say this stuff know that they are pissing off people by saying them, and guess what? This isn't exactly very fun behavior unless you're a 4channer or something. Maybe your time would be better spent making jokes that aren't in bitter taste and people can actually laugh at in good nature.

 

So to sum up, perhaps you should start making jokes that are actually funny and not terrible, and maybe you should stop having your entire "humorous" status activity revolve around pissing off people, because no one wants this. "It's just a game," huh? Then if it really is just a game then stop making a big deal about it yourself.

[Lady Soniko]

Where I don't agree with the attitude of the members invoking this sort of heat, I still feel that you are being a bit too sensitive about a video game, because unfortunately the whole "this game is shit, this game is better, let me be an obnoxious dick hole about it and get like minded people to start a LOLWAR somewhere" is absolutely every where, and even applies to movies and music too.

 

Some people just take it too far and legitimately anger other people.

 

Can I just say this doesn't apply just to unleashed? But many subjects in question that will cause immense clashing opinions and heated debates, although Unleashed vs Colours has been the theme lately because of Soniman's topic I digress, but for someone who is joking and just trying to start flames, they sure are fucking dragging in on and on trying to cause a whole forest fire, it really is sad.

[Mauro Fonseca]

EDIT: nevermind

Edited May 6, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[Celestia]

Godwin's Law gets invoked.

Oddly enough, that little incident was the only part to make me actually pissed off regarding this whole mess.

 

Anyhow, I'll be honest with you E.D. your behaviour was bothering me a little, but I do sympathize quite a bit. I mean, I like Unleashed too, but not only that, I love Colours, and that game gets quite a lot of pointless jabs, too. It can get tiring, especially when it goes from mocking the game to mocking the people who like/defend it. "lolatmosphere" and all that.

 

Not sure what else to say ... I guess I'm interested in seeing if this goes anywhere.

Edited May 6, 2013 by elementofchaos

[Diogenes]

I have to wonder how '06 fans feel about this.

[Nepenthe]

Soniman, your topic is not at fault, so don't feel guilty for making it. If nothing else, that idea sprung from the fact that there was already status drama of this caliber going on. This isn't recent at all. I've seen "trololol atmosphere" statuses going back months and months.

[Carbo]

I'll say this much; if there is actually any people on this board that are antagonizing one another for having some sort of quote-on-quote "stupid opinion" then we'll deal with it accordingly, because everyone has the right to an opinion.

But we haven't had a single report on the boards about someone, or anyone, being an ass to another member or scrutinizing each other. There's always a key differentiation between being blunt in their posture and being aggressively elitist, the latter of which I have seen very little of. The key suggestion I have for you and every other member is to not take generalizing and sweeping statements to heart and interpret them on such a personal level, because you're essentially getting mad over video games. Conversely, I suggest no one shits in the punchbowl for shits and giggles. It's a miracle that I haven't seen anyone actually shit on someone else going "lol no your opinion is wrong" in retort to anyone actually expressing one opinion over one another. All I've seen is heated debates caused by controversial claims, and these debates are usually level headed until someone feels the need to take personal offense and feel there's a mission statement in proving any other one's superiority over the other.

In other words: don't be a dick. That goes for both camps of this stupid opinion war. If the opposing side is being such, at least you can take pride in knowing you're not on the same level as they are. As long as you don't tout your horn in knowing that you, in turn, are also right.

[Frogging101]

I'll just start off by saying that I'm fully supportive of bringing issues such as this out into the open so that we can discuss it as a community, and if people are feeling bullied then that's something that needs to be addressed ASAP. But in this case, is it possible that people may be taking things just a little too seriously? I remember seeing some of those status updates in that image when they were posted; most of the time it's just playful banter/joking around. In other words, I don't think anyone is maliciously intending to cause emotional stress or otherwise make people feel like shit with these comments. We have to remember that this is the Internet, where sarcasm and levels of seriousness don't transfer well. I'm not supporting the behavior, but I doubt that there's a malicious intent behind it.

 

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be addressed; just that we shouldn't necessarily assume that people are being malicious by making these comments. I think the solution is a compromise between the two sides; Unleashed fans should be slightly less sensitive (Gawd, it's hard to say that without sounding like a dick), and everyone else should recognize when their joking is causing a problem.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Frogging101

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Oddly enough, that little incident was the only part to make me actually pissed off regarding this whole mess.

 

Anyhow, I'll be honest with you E.D. your behaviour was bothering me a little, but I do sympathize quite a bit. I mean, I like Unleashed too, but not only that, I love Colours, and that game gets quite a lot of pointless jabs, too. It can get tiring, especially when it goes from mocking the game to mocking the people who like/defend it. "lolatmosphere" and all that.

 

Not sure what else to say ... I guess I'm interested in seeing if this goes anywhere.

 

My actions, especially a day ago, weren't excusable, so I apologize again for being so rash.

 

I have to wonder how '06 fans feel about this.

 

Hm...

[Cola]

That UnleaSHIT joke was absolutely atrocious. Not funny in the slightest.

Whoever wrote that should be ashamed of themselves. I don't mind the comment, but the joke was just not funny.




Edit: also i'm honestly surprised this has escalated so much

C'mon guys, it's just video games can't we just present our arguments in a dignified manner and just get along

Edited May 6, 2013 by Cola

[Soniman]

Soniman, your topic is not at fault, so don't feel guilty for making it. If nothing else, that idea sprung from the fact that there was already status drama of this caliber going on. This isn't recent at all. I've seen "trololol atmosphere" statuses going back months and months.

 

Yeah that is true, but before it would usually just be once in a blue moon rather a scheduled weekly status war, which is what resulted in this topic in the first place.

[Gabz Girl]

Well..............if I'm going to be perfectly honest with you........................I don't think you should take these comments too seriously. No one actually intents to hurt you, and in the end......it's just a game. Why should you care if people take jabs at it, you don't have to feel obligated to defend it, you like the game and that's that. I think you're taking this too seriously, no one actually took personal jabs at you, just at the game itself. 

 

In the end it's just a game, no need to take it so seriously. 

 

Agreed. The best thing to do is to just ignore the anti-Unleashed people and vice versa. It's just a videogame, it's your opinion (as long as it's justified and well critiqued) and don't get too bloody sensitive about it.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Gabz Girl

[Mauro Fonseca]

oH WAIT IT WAS MOVED AWAY FROM THE SONIC BOARD, NOT TO IT?

Oh allow me then.

I'm all for a good ribbing. I also think Missile was getting too heated, and even tried to get him to relax in private (no not that).

That said, and as much as I have trouble remembering it, this is not 4chan nor is the entire internet obliged to abide by "internet rules". This forum prefers a bit more cordiality.

And things like attaching like hawks to a badly-placed Godwin's law to completely ignore what was being said and cackle instead is pretty sad to see.

tl;dr - stop causing so much drama over games, both sides- realise when your joking is causing trouble, and develop a tougher skin if you're being subject to jokes

Edited May 6, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[Chaos Warp]

It's no longer about the game, but about people who are acting in a condescending manner, getting away with it, and then repeating the process over and over until things become nothing more than a mindless brawl.

Towards the game, not you. The game doesn't have feelings, dose it?

 

I'm sorry I'm kinda calling you out like this, but I've seen you call out a member and blame all the things in the Sonic franchise that you don't like at the moment on him in a status update (and basically saying that assholes like him were to the barriers to what you consider progress, even though I know those won't your exact words), just because he said that he was fine with the safer direction the franchise is going in. I really think you take this too seriously. 

 

I just never saw the point of getting riled up when someone insults a game you like. In the end, even if you're really passionate about games like I and many others are, it's a trivial thing to get insulted over. 

​EDIT: Oh and the "X member has stupid opinions?" comments? Apply same logic. People are just making jokes and they don't actually intend to hurt you. Me and my friends hurl insults at each other as jokes all the time and we're really close friends so I don't see the problem. 

Edited May 6, 2013 by Generations (Chaos Warp)

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

First of all the jokes aren't actually funny so pulling the "I'm just joking" card is super lame because these are in fact rather shit jokes, have you ever thought of that?

 

Secondly, no. There does come a point where you really need to think about what you're saying because the people who say this stuff know that they are pissing off people by saying them, and guess what? This isn't exactly very fun behavior unless you're a 4channer or something. Maybe your time would be better spent making jokes that aren't in bitter taste and people can actually laugh at in good nature.

 

So to sum up, perhaps you should start making jokes that are actually funny and not terrible, and maybe you should stop having your entire "humorous" status activity revolve around pissing off people, because no one wants this. "It's just a game," huh? Then if it really is just a game then stop making a big deal about it yourself.

 

Jokes not being good doesn't mean they weren't meant as jokes, comrade. As to your second point, I haven't honestly seen much of that. I've seen people make light of Unleashed fans being so quick to leap into the fray. No one has seriously said something like "X is ridiculous for liking Y." It's almost always some general crowd feeling the absolutely burning sting of some guy's random one-off comment.

 

Thirdly, it's in part this sort of behavior I was referring to. No one's here to persecute anyone, comrade. We're all here to get to the bottom of this issue.