Amicable Sonic Unleashed Status Updates Discussion - Mod Approved.

[Chaos Warp]

Chaos, consider/imagine that for the next 30 posts you make, I'll keep going on the status update to write "lel posts about drama. Y SO SERIUSSS GUYSEEEEES LEL LEL".

 

If you contact me asking me to stop, I'll reply with "BACK OFF MAN IT'S JUST A FORUM".

I wouldn't care. Really, I just wouldn't take it seriously. I'd just go "Ah, well" and forget about it. 

Edited May 6, 2013 by Generations (Chaos Warp)

[Nepenthe]

Once again, it's not just the game being insulted, which no one who has posted here cares about as it has been stated God knows how many times. It's about going after a subset of members themselves by reducing their opinions down into fucking stupid strawman to specifically make fun of them. They are not talking about the game when they do this, they're talking about me whether they realize it or not. It's no different from Green Eyes or Anti-Pony nonsemse, which we collectively put a stop to, even if some of it was in genuine jest. Someone please explain then why this is acceptable in this instance? (As for the Sonic 06 fans, my latest tirade in the official thread was in defense of them, and specifically against the same stupid behavior being exhibited by people who don't like the game, so I don't feel particularly hypocritical, especially since I don't bother them myself anyway.)

[...]

Seeing as I'll admit I had some part in this, I'll just express my thoughts on this subject. As someone who likes Unleashed, there is stuff similar to what shown in the OP going atUnleashed and the people that like it (for example "ATMOSPHUR!1" in a mocking tone.) Stuff like "UnleaSHIT"... though it was meant to be a joke, it was an incredibly shitty one, and I apologize for it. I don't intend to antagonize Unleashed fans or make them feel like they're wrong for liking the game. Again, I like Unleashed, infact, it's one of my favorite Sonic games. But still, I said stupid things (even if they were meant as jokes) and if what I say or goes to the lengths of offending them, I'll cut the shit and keep it to myself, simple as. 

[Conando]

I had no idea that any of this was going on...how the hell? I'll still say that, from what I understand now, that everyone just needs to step back. In the immortal words of Frog:

 

"Stop gettin' mad at video games", or in this case stop getting mad over them. Both sides, not just one or the other. It's ok to disagree with one another, and even make jokes about the games (I have seen it with more than just Unleashed), but when people are getting upset you need to cut it out. It stops being harmless ribbing to trolling at that point, and that's not cool. Especially if you're just parroting the same doofy things to take a crack at people's opinions. If the joke isn't going over well, it's not the joke to use.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Wreck-It Ralph

[Mauro Fonseca]

I wouldn't care. Really, I just wouldn't take it seriously. I'd just go "Ah, well" and forget about it.

 

Good on you, man. I'd do the same. I also realise I am not a pattern example that should be applied to the entire forum.

EDIT:

Seeing as I'll admit I had some part in this, I'll just express my thoughts on this subject. As someone who likes Unleashed, there is stuff similar to what shown in the OP going atUnleashed and the people that like it (for example "ATMOSPHUR!1" in a mocking tone.) Stuff like "UnleaSHIT"... though it was meant to be a joke, it was an incredibly shitty one, and I apologize for it. I don't intend to antagonize Unleashed fans or make them feel like they're wrong for liking the game. Again, I like Unleashed, infact, it's one of my favorite Sonic games. But still, I said stupid things (even if they were meant as jokes) and if what I say or goes to the lengths of offending them, I'll cut the shit and keep it to myself, simple as.

Again, in your case in particular, I'd say it was, as mentioned before, not so much that you should stop joking or that you meant harm, but that one needs to be aware of the ambience in the forum. As innocent as your joke was, choosing to post it when tensions are increasing is a bad choice.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[Chaos Warp]

Once again, it's not just the game being insulted, which no one who has posted here cares about as it has been stated God knows how many times. It's about going after a subset of members themselves by reducing their opinions down into fucking stupid strawman to specifically make fun of them. They are not talking about the game when they do this, they're talking about me whether they realize it or not. It's no different from Green Eyes or Anti-Pony nonsemse, which we collectively put a stop to, even if some of it was in genuine jest. Someone please explain then why this is acceptable in this instance? (As for the Sonic 06 fans, my latest tirade in the official thread was in defense of them, and specifically against the same stupid behavior being exhibited by people who don't like the game, so I don't feel particularly hypocritical, especially since I don't bother them myself anyway.)

 

So people get personally offended when their arguments get reduced to strawmen for the sake of a joke..........the joke is about the argument, not about the person. They didn't call you a stupid (insert racial slur here) or anything, I see no reason to get personally offended. It's just an argument you made on a fourm, I just say let it roll of your shoulder and move on. 

[Burnt Ash]

I'm not too sure how much I've contributed to this whole status update war, but regardless, I want to kind of echo and add to what some others have said in this thread.

One, ultimately, yes, Unleashed and Colors are most certainly games that honestly have no significance in the grand scheme of things. However, especially considering in context of discussion, the way we as a community go about discussing them, it does have some effect. Specifically, the status updates. Yeah, the jabs at the games alone aren't that huge of an issue, but the way things are said, to whom the jabs are directed to, and the general attitude expressed behind the jabs are some of the key issues here. For example, there's a difference between criticising an argument and mocking it. If you want more elaboration, take a look at CSS's "words of the wise". The thing is, there's no problem in deconstructing and criticising an argument or making general jokes of the game, but like Verte said, when it comes to people saying things like "lol atmosphere" (likewise with criticism towards Colors) then that's less of a criticism of the argument than it is a mockery of it, and people (rightfully so) will get legitimately upset with it because at this point it's no longer simply about the game. This attitude in particular, like Sean I believe said, was also criticised as such with the whole anti-MLP thing last year. The point is, there's a key difference between criticising the games and mocking the arguments and people behind it. It's this kind of attitude that's a problem, one that can honestly give off an unpleasant vibe, and one that isn't exactly welcome.

Two, some justifications I've seen regarding the general issue at hand. Perhaps it's not as frequent, but I'd often see justifications such as "it's the Internet" or "we're Sonic fans" or "there's a lack of Sonic news" or whatever. No. I think it was Verte who said something like this before, but the SSMB has often hosted respectful discussion, rational discussion. It matters not whether we're Sonic fans or part of the Internet, the SSMB, like with most sites, has standards on what and what not to post. Taking that into consideration, why are these excuses, serious or not, used in light of evaluating the very attitudes we're discussing? Yeah, a good chunk of us are Sonic fans, but so what? Does this immediately excuse the behaviour being discussed here?

SSMB's been a great place to discuss Sonic among other things and things like this need not hinder that discussion quality here.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Burnt Ash

[Diogenes]

No one is being insulted. In the end, games are, and who cares if games get insulted.

Dude, seriously, this:

But WAH where's my NPC's and pretentious friendship story" No Stop. All that level detail alone shows that they fucking love this series

and this:

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but all the glorious master of everything there ever was and will ever be always THE ATMSPHERE1!

are not insulting the games. They're mocking people's opinions. You keep trying to spin this as "but it's just games guys!" is only showing you aren't paying a damn bit of attention to what people are saying.

[Celestia]

Except ... if you're making fun of someone's argument, you're most likely implying that you think they're stupid or at least wrong for thinking that way. That's how I see it, anyway.

[Chaos Warp]

Dude, seriously, this:

and this:

are not insulting the games. They're mocking people's opinions. You keep trying to spin this as "but it's just games guys!" is only showing you aren't paying a damn bit of attention to what people are saying.

See my response to Nepenthe on this page. 

Except ... if you're making fun of someone's argument, you're most likely implying that you think they're stupid or at least wrong for thinking that way. That's how I see it, anyway.

Not always, you could just be doing it for the sake of humor. 

[Vertekins]

So people get personally offended when their arguments get reduced to strawmen for the sake of a joke..........the joke is about the argument, not about the person. They didn't call you a stupid (insert racial slur here) or anything, I see no reason to get personally offended. It's just an argument you made on a fourm, I just say let it roll of your shoulder and move on. 

 

You're completely ignoring what Tornado said;

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but by this logic we might as well shut down the entire forum.

 

Why does Missile care? Because his (and Verte's and Nepenthe's and etc.) personal opinions are being boiled down to hollow shells of what they actually are, then paraded around the index (and in the discussions themselves) as being their opinions instead. Why should they be alright with someone intentionally misrepresenting their argument; and then others coming along as a result and being biased against them before they can even begin discussing anything?

 

 

It's more than a joke when it influences certain members to devalue what Unleashed fans have to say because somehow their arguments regarding praise of worldbuilding etc are mocked and made out to be stupid. We are insulted when this happens and to think that we shouldn't be by reason that 'it's a forum/the internet' is ridiculous. This forum is a place of freedom of speech within reason. Those insults are not within reason and Unleashed fans are free to praise what they damn well like without having the merits of their arguments made out to be nothing and to be intentionally made to feel bad because of them.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Vertekins

[Mauro Fonseca]

See my response to Nepenthe on this page. 

Not always, you could just be doing it for the sake of humor.

He did. He disagrees. You may be attempting to only mock the argument, but think about it a bit- if the argument is so stupid, why did anyone say it? Surely, because they're dumbfucks as well?

"BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY"

It's what you said nonetheless. Mankind doesn't live on literalities alone, but also on nuances of comunication. Often, that can result in mistakes, but man... this one is pretty obvious.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[SenEDDtor Missile]

See my response to Nepenthe on this page. 

Not always, you could just be doing it for the sake of humor. 

Extreme example: Would you joke about the holocaust in front of a holocaust survivor? Would you think that was FUNNY by any stretch? this is the same idea on a far lesser scale.

[Xenos]

Chaos Warp, I'm sorry but the more I look at this, the more it looks like you're trying to twist every single thing so it doesn't look like it directly affects the person...when in actuality it definitely does.

[Diogenes]

Not always, you could just be doing it for the sake of humor.

Mocking someone for the sake of humor is kind of shitty.

[Carbo]

This topic is going pretty fast so I'll just throw in my couple of possibly unrelated cents.

Honestly, of all the things to hang up over about this, the "Unleashit" joke should be the lowest on the list. It's a completely inoffensive joke that while poor, means nothing and is directed towards nothing. I see tons of people doing these kinds of jokes on a daily basis and while it doesn't make them any more funnier, I recognize they're almost purely for irony's sake and never mean anything, even if their impact is so insignificant they could be seen as unnecessary.

In that context it's not merely a matter of atmosphere surrounding the forum but about the context of wording and the aspect of self-satirizing, something which is incredibly cumbersome to convey in text. For the sake of Felix, who most certainly did not intend for that to be taken in such way, I'd say it's best to drop that.

[Chaos Warp]

Mocking someone for the sake of humor is kind of shitty.

If you're comfortable with the person and know they mean no ire, not always. 

[Burnt Ash]

So people get personally offended when their arguments get reduced to strawmen for the sake of a joke..........the joke is about the argument, not about the person. They didn't call you a stupid (insert racial slur here) or anything, I see no reason to get personally offended. It's just an argument you made on a fourm, I just say let it roll of your shoulder and move on.

Why should I? There comes a point where a joke stops being a joke and more of a mockery/insult. Yeah, again, it's just a game, but when it comes to the point where people and the argument are being mocked and/or insulted, it's hardly about the game anymore.

[Conando]

Yeah, here's the thing. Those statuses aren't putting down the game per say, they're putting down people's arguments for why they like the game. Which isn't all that nice, see? You can argue people should have thicker skin, but people shouldn't go around spewing things like that left and right either. I can take a ribbing or two, but there have been times when people do get to me when they come off as making fun of my opinion rather than arguing the game. I've even done that at times, and it's wrong. When I see I did it, I have no pride in it. I did it more often when I first came here even, and apologized to people I had lashed out at. Look, I don't even really like Sonic Unleashed, but I can see why there are those that do. I even appreciate it for its idea, it's the game that did start Sonic's uptrend after all. It was the first game where Sonic Team was "getting it" so to speak.

 

Edit: However, the "UNLEASHIT" thing is hardly an attack on anyone as far I can tell. My friends and I do stupid crap like that all the time, it's just a bad sarcastic joke.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Wreck-It Ralph

[SenEDDtor Missile]

If you're comfortable with the person and know they mean no ire, not always. 

Well it's still not an excuse, not to mention I DON'T know them to be comfortable about it, so I think I have a right to be irritated about something poorly worded or just plain stupid, ill intent or otherwise.

Edited May 6, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[Diogenes]

If you're comfortable with the person and know they mean no ire, not always.

Hey, guess what's not the case here?

That.

That is not the case here.

[Conando]

If you're comfortable with the person and know they mean no ire, not always. 

 

Well clearly, they aren't. So, why do people keep pushing it?

[Celestia]

Why would I feel comfortable with someone who may or may not (and I'm personally thinking it's the former in this case) feel genuine animosity toward me/a group I'm in simply because of opinions?

[Kuzu]

Was reading this on my phone on the way home. Had time to think about it and sort things out.

 

 

My conclusion: Both sides need to grow up. I understand people can get upset by comments from another, but it shouldn't be to the point where you get seething with anger. Its the internet, and while I know that's not an excuse to be an asshole, its still a factor into all of this. If someone is harassing you about anything on this board, there's a report button for a reason.

 

To the other side, stop being immature brats and intentionally trying to rile up the opposition because its "cool". Its not cool, it makes you look like an asshole who has nothing better to do, even if you were joking. If you disagree against someone else's point, then fucking argue against it instead of just throwing one-worded insults in an attempt to be "funny".

 

 

Can't believe its gotten to this point.

[Nepenthe]

So people get personally offended when their arguments get reduced to strawmen for the sake of a joke..........the joke is about the argument, not about the person. They didn't call you a stupid (insert racial slur here) or anything, I see no reason to get personally offended. It's just an argument you made on a fourm, I just say let it roll of your shoulder and move on.

And the point you've missed is that it's not the argument I've made for the game in the first place. I've got a well-rounded opinion about Unleashed of which the atmosphere is only a singular component of, yet people willingly ignore this to make stupid jokes. It is also not just a joke; this misrepresentation has been seriously discussed in the status updates and appropriate topics as something we actually fucking believe, so there is an element of sincerity to it that makes it impossible for anyone to say it's just all in jest. I also disagree with this notion that there is no intent to insult when these jokes are made. When people are mocking your argument in this manner, they are inherently mocking how you've explained yourself and your inherent position to attack you. "lol atmosphere" is the same thing as "lol rape can be cancelled" in reference to Republicans; the intent is to mock them just as much as it is mocking an argument that may not actually be representative of what most Republicans think. You don't have to be direct to be insulting. In general though, I wish you'd stop telling me not to be offended by people being dicks.