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Sonic Lost World Announced

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But the game is boring without the wisps. I mean I love Colours but the Wisps are kinda essential to the overall experience. 

 

Thankfully they look more optional in Lost World. 

 

Exactly, I'm just saying that if you really WANT to avoid Wisps you can for the most part..

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I really don't care to argue this now, especially on my phone, all it's going to lead to is more ad hominem arguments where people attack each other over opinions.

Just gonna spectate for a few hours.

 

I feel the same way but I just gotta let it out now because it's really getting to me.

 

This thread is nothing but bitching on every single thing from the beginning:

 

- Nintendo exclusivity? Check;

- Completely new gameplay? Check;

- Sonic is too slow? Check;

- Pixar Bad guys? Check;

- No other playable characters? Check;

- No online on Wii U? Check;

- 3DS by Dimps again? Check;

- Graphics are crap? Check;

- Looks like Mario Galaxy? Check;

- Tropes don't match? Check;

- Some music seems subpar? Check;

- Desert level looks dull? Check;

- Green Hill version 9.0? Check;

- Casino level too short? Check;

 

They should've done a '06 and just put out a fake trailer and not take anyone's feedback. (Edit: To clarify, I refer to the gameplay trailer for Crisis City that looked more completed than the final version)

 

I am not saying don't talk about those things or that some of those concerns I mentioned above aren't also mine, but for God's sake... It's too early to jump to conclusions and like I said, nothing is set in stone with Sonic Team. If this game turns out to be as bad as everyone is making it out to be, they will abandon their current plans for the future and try something else.

 

But until then, give the guys a chance and let those who are hyped stay hyped. It's OK to criticize but it's like one of the Ten Commandments in this community is "Thou shalt not let thy neighbor enjoy things thou do not."

 

Otherwise we will end up where the Mega Man fanbase is now and the last thing we need is for SEGA to become like Capcom. I don't think SEGA would abandon Sonic altogether, but all you would see is re-re-re-re-re-releases of the CLASSICS that EVERYONE loves so goddamn much for the rest of time.

 

/endrant

/equip:Flame Shield
 

 

 

Edited by tenchibr

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Why would you want to intentionally make the game boring?

 

Isn't this highlighting an interesting problem though: that Sonic gameplay is potentially boring without power-ups to augment it, unlike Mario's power-ups which people keep comparing the Wisps to in the first place? Granted, I'm not against a game design where power-ups are an absolutely essential part of the experience. But what happens when the power-ups get boring after extended, repetitive use? What are you left with? :/

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Isn't this highlighting an interesting problem though: that Sonic gameplay is potentially boring without power-ups to augment it, unlike Mario's power-ups which people keep comparing the Wisps to in the first place? Granted, I'm not against a game design where power-ups are an absolutely essential part of the experience. But what happens when the power-ups get boring after extended, repetitive use? What are you left with? :/

Well IMO It's only Sonic Colours that has this problem. Generations did fine without wisps. 

 

And also when the power-ups get repetitive the rest of the game gets repetitive, like any game when you play it for too long consistently. That kind of thing happening isn't powerup-based game exclusive.

Edited by Chaos Warp

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I don't really care much for the Wisp Powers potentially being a permanent thing. I feel they break up the gameplay, there isn't enough flow - it encourages stopping as the transformation period (and in some cases even lining them up to be used) stops the movement of the game. Which ultimately I feel is counter to what a Sonic game should be about. Here we are applauding things like the parkour system, which I can see as being relevant to the series as a whole. It is a decent idea because it allows you to traverse over terrain that you might otherwise have to stop at - it lets you keep moving forward if you know what you are doing. Wisp powers stop you - even if you know how to use them. I see almost no purpose for them to exist in the game otherwise, they make more sense in a slower platformer styled game like Mario for example than I feel they belong in a game that in the past encourages you to move forward as best as you can and as fast as you can.

I miss powerups like the shields. I feel they served a purpose and never really impeded upon your gameplay at all in old games. They all had the goal of protecting you - giving you that one extra hit to conserve your rings and get a higher score at the end of the level and/or allow you to fuckup and still keep rings in order to enter bonus levels. I like how in Sonic 3 they started to even protect you from the elements. The water shield was great because it increased your mobility under the water if even being able to bounce yourself higher as well as giving the added protection from drowning. It prevented you from having to stop and wait for bubbles under the water. Fire shield and the Electricity shield were great too - with the FIre Shield having what I'd almost call a proto homing attack to propel yourself forward and keep you moving. They had uses and the best part was they were completely optional and didn't break the flow of the level at all. Speed shoes gave you the benefit of moving faster, invincibility let you run right through obstacles without having to stop. These powerups had benefits and aside from the speed shoes and invincibility, they were rewards for playing well too - you only lost them if you got hit once you gained them. They were a good example of a type of powerup I feel works within the context of the Sonic series. 

 

Wisps are just there to sort of replace level gimmicks I think, but I find them to be incredibly clunky and as I said before - useless. It wouldn't be a problem to me if the Wisp's powers were a lot more passive in their use and functioned in a less intrusive way like the shields did. If they gave you abilities that you could use such as giving Sonic more speed, or a third jump or IDK something that is more akin to being a little power to help the player but doesn't need to be activated. But then basically I'm asking for what the shields essentially did to be put back into the series (and really, it'd be ideal for me if they returned). Right now I think the Wisps are being used as a bit of a crutch for varied and interesting level design. "Here is a drill area" "here is a laser area" "here is a strange musical note area". It doesn't get me interested. The classics gave you the powerups around areas you might want to use them in, but it never felt to me like the level was designed around the idea that you need them to progress.

 

That's just my two cents on it though :3

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There are one of two ways this could go:

 

Option A; Sonic Team design the Wisps and the level design, such that they fit together seamlessly. In other words they are needed to complete certain puzzles and so on.

 

Option B; Sonic Team design the Wisps such that they increasingly become replacements for item boxes. A handy tool but aren't necessary. Levels are designed to accommodate them, but aren't designed to require them.

 

I like option B, because it could provide a  little variety, and as mentioned earlier, be a modern replacement for the item boxes of old. But I don't want them to be anything more than that. I don't want Sonic Team to focus on the Wisps like Nintendo focuses on what new animal Mario has the power of. It should be a fun little decorative flourish on the games, not one of the foundations.

 

 

EDIT:

Right now, I don't have enough faith in Sonic Team to believe that they'll go through with something like B. I feel like they're going to use it as a crutch to add "variety" for the forseeable future. 

 

Also, I hope this Iizuka quote actually has some context, and isn't a just bizarre interpretation of some PR nonsense he said at SoS.

Edited by Scar

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..I genuinely question how much you've played Colors.

 

Plenty and it's more than possible to play a lot of the game without them and whilst they had quite a significant effect in that game, I agree, Colours as a whole was more built around making use of the Wisps.  They were supposed to be the star of the show in that game.  You take a look at Lost World (where the focus of the game has been shifted) and we've seen that Cyan Wisp in Windy Hill 1 which you don't even need to touch at all.  Heck if you take certain routes in the level you could get through without even realising it's there.  Same with the Eagle Wisp in that Desert Ruins level.  The fact that they are already a non essential element of the games that have been merely added for the sake of variety in my opinion shows that the effect that they will have on the series overall in the future won't be a particularly massive one and that as a result the current reaction to the news of them being recurring is rather unnecessary.

 

There's nothing wrong with disliking the Wisps don't get me wrong (heck I'm not a big fan of some of the Wisps in Colours and I certainly didn't really like how they were handled in Generations), but their effect on the series comparative to stuff like the boost for example has been comparatively insignificant and inoffensive.

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I liked them in Colors, but I'm not sure I want them to become a permanent series staple. I think they're best as a one or two time thing. Maybe coming back every couple of games.

 

Every single game seems a bit overkill in my opinion.

That's essentially how I feel. I wouldn't object to them coming back at some point, but I feel every single game is quite a bit much. 

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And also when the power-ups get repetitive the rest of the game gets repetitive, like any game when you play it for too long consistently. That kind of thing happening isn't powerup-based game exclusive.

 

I didn't say it was. My point is: If you have two games, Game A and Game B, Game A one has gameplay that can stand on its own regardless of its power-ups and Game B relies on power-ups for the majority of the fun, if both of their power-ups get boring to use mid-play, then Game B is in bigger trouble. Subsequently, Game B has to make sure that it's power-ups are a much richer part of the gameplay experience than they would have to be in games where they're not so prominent. This is why I harp on the Wisps' fairly tame utilization of their abilities so much. Seriously, if ever comes the day where I can use Laser to actually burn something, I will fly to Japan and make out with Iizuka.

 

inb4 someone saves this post.

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I liked them in Colors, but I'm not sure I want them to become a permanent series staple. I think they're best as a one or two time thing. Maybe coming back every couple of games.

 

Every single game seems a bit overkill in my opinion.

 

If my past posts made it look like I suggested otherwise, lemme just say that this is kind of what I had in mind when Iizuka said that Wisps would be a permanent thing for Sonic games.

 

I think what Iizuka meant to say was that Wisps were not a one-off, that they would be revisited every now and then, but not for every single Sonic game. If they were to do that, not only would they run out of gameplay ideas, but they'd also run out of colors on the spectrum when they introduce new Wisps. It'd be total burnout. 

 

I think we should just step back and breathe easy here. The Wisps are as permanent as the Chaotix or Cream the Rabbit. They're there, they show up often, but they only appear when its necessary or when the game designers find it a good idea to implement them.

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So are there any more (please let there be more) Lost World Impressions?

 

I had a run through both Windy Hill and Casino Frozen Factory but I'm way too tired to type up my impressions right now. I'll get on it tomorrow.

Edited by Pawn

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While it was already noted that, even if the Wisps do become a staple, they might not appear in every game, even if they do, who's to say they'll have more prominence than they did in, say, Sonic Generations, where they only appeared in a single level? Obviously, if they do keep returning with new powers and whatnot, they'll appear more often than that, but to be frank, we don't even know just how much prominence they take in Lost World yet, or even if they really aren't mostly optional.

 

And really, I think it can reasonably be inferred that if they keep returning like that, they'll grow and improve just like everything else. Just as well, it could not, but my point is that we know too little about the situation as a whole to judge just what this means, let alone to react so extremely. The sheer overreaction to this statement is really confusing to me, and the fact that we've very nearly gone to war over it puzzles me even more. If you feel negatively about the decision, that's all well and good, but lawdy...

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I didn't say it was. My point is: If you have two games, Game A and Game B, Game A one has gameplay that can stand on its own regardless of its power-ups and Game B relies on power-ups for the majority of the fun, if both of their power-ups get boring to use mid-play, then Game B is in bigger trouble. Subsequently, Game B has to make sure that it's power-ups are a much richer part of the gameplay experience than they would have to be in games where they're not so prominent. This is why I harp on the Wisps' fairly tame utilization of their abilities so much. Seriously, if ever comes the day where I can use Laser to actually burn something, I will fly to Japan and make out with Iizuka.

 

inb4 someone saves this post.

Already done smile.png .

 

Anyway, I suppose I agree. Even though I do like Wisps, I suppose they could stand to be used in more creative ways: but then we have the Freedom-IMEAN Eagle Wisp and Rhythm Wisp from SLW, which seem less tame. 

Edited by Chaos Warp

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Already done smile.png .

D:

 

Anyway, I suppose I agree. Even though I do like Wisps, I suppose they could stand to be used in more creative ways: but then we have the Freedom-IMEAN Eagle Wisp and Rhythm Wisp from SLW, which seem less tame.

Eagle Wisp seems like a straight flyer, fun just on the sheer fact that you're flying, but Music Wisp seems extremely context-specific. It invokes a basic rhythm game which- depending upon the execution- can either be a neat time-waster or absolute sheer frustration. In general though, it looks like the Blue Wisp of the group.

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I love how we're complaining about a post who's source isn't even confirmed to be reliable.

 I agree, the only thing we have to confirm this is a Neogaf post, someone here must have gone to SOS so can anyone else confirm he said something similar to this.

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I don't even expect the wisps to be an every-game thing. I mean, when the hell have they ever planned more than one game ahead, if that? They don't know what the fuck they're going to be doing 2, 3, 4, whatever, years from now, so how could this be a guarantee that wisps will be involved? I think all they're saying is that, wisps are not a "Colors and Lost World" thing, they're a "Sonic series" thing, and they are a well that they will always have the option (key word, that; "option") of drawing from in future games.

 

Actually you know what this reminds me of?  The spindash in 3D Sonic games.  That's technically a permanent feature of the series, and was still in a lot of the 2D games.  But it took them 7 years for them to bring it back to a 3D Sonic game.  

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