Sonic Lost World Announced

[Nepenthe]

Honey the Cat should be in this game.

Why? Let Sonic Team figure it out.

More like "because I would enjoy seeing her developed in a mainstream Sonic game," a statement that could prompt any number of replies and subsequent healthy discussion. But thank you for ridiculously misconstruing my argument in an attempt to mock it.

[ArtFenix]

Because its not about what fans want, its about what the writers want, and what makes sense in the context of the story.

Story can be rewritten to fit the characters appearing in it. It should not be a problem for any writer.

Edited May 20, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Diogenes]

A good story doesn't mash characters in at random.

[Ferno]

Just gotta find a way to include the other characters without them feeling pushed in for no reason.

[Jango]

Just gotta find a way to include the other characters without them feeling pushed in for no reason.

 

Except Big, he is meant to be a not-related-to-anything cameo.

We need Big cameos. Seriously.

[tenchibr]

S3&K did a good job with its story integration, but Black Knight is the first Sonic game I felt that having voiced characters enriched the story telling rather than diminished it.

[Nepenthe]

Most of the established characters already have some reason to appear in a game just by mere identity. The casts have jobs, goals, and desires that make them fairly easy to insert in different scenarios. Tails is a genius/pilot/Sonic's ultimate bestie and thus tags along, Shadow is an agent, Rouge likes stealing shit, Knuckles is always losing shit Rouge wants to steal, Amy is looking for Sonic, the Chaotix are detectives, etc.. Their motives are an inherent part of who these characters are, so their inclusion in a plot is not as damned difficult as it's been made out to be for God knows whatever reason.

Certainly, conversations can happen about how these characters are going to pay off in the plot down the line, as inclusion is only half the battle. What they discover and do throughout a story is more pertinent, but including them on narrative-based reasons is the biggest non-issue ever. And having the characters pay off is only a conversation that can be best had in hindsight because, again, you can't make an argument for or even against a character's inclusion in a story we know nothing about. It is also ultimately out of any fans' control, because again, no one here is in a position to dictate how the stories can go. We're not writers for Sega. Asking me to seriously justify why Shadow should be in Lost Worlds at this point- or even future games I can't conceive of yet- is an exercise in futility and nonsense. All of this is basically why I don't feel anyone needs to be browbeat into justifying why they want their favorite characters to show up beyond mere admiration. Seriously, character discussion has gotten a little ridiculous and overwrought at this point.

[chirf]

It's not that I hate when Sonic Team adds new characters, I just hate when they spend time creating MORE characters when they barely took the time to flesh out the ones they already made.

 

I'm all for new characters, I just wish they would give personality to the current "new" ones before just shoving more into the game.

[FReaK]

I don't really believe in a teaser or something for today. it's 8:30 pm here now...dunno where woun got that information.

[KrazyBean]

I don't really believe in a teaser or something for today. it's 8:30 pm here now...dunno where woun got that information.

 

Woun said that we can expect news on the 23rd...I think. Nothing's happening today that's for sure.

[WarioBone]

You know what?

 

I don't care if this game has fucking boring-ass level tropes, barely any story, or even Sonic, Tails, and Robotnik only.

 

If there's good, intuitive and creative level design and a good mesh of classic and modern Sonic gameplay, it can be as boring visually and writing-wise as it wants.  I really don't care anymore.  Just give me a decent length game that's actually fun to play, and a few extras like playable Tails or a Hard Mode, and I'll buy this game, no questions asked.

Edited May 20, 2013 by THE BABY

[Masterofnone169]

You're free to want whatever you want, but that doesn't make it a reasonable request.

"The story will already be shit, so why not make it more shit" isn't a compelling argument.

 

Thats a bit "Overthinking" don't you think?  What he was trying to say is that "the story is just going to be there as an excuse for sonic to go to this weird hexagon world".

 

Don't forget.  While some of sonics friends didn't appear in the Wii version.  They did in the DS version and no one complained about it.

[Soniman]

You know what?

 

I don't care if this game has fucking boring-ass level tropes, barely any story, or even Sonic, Tails, and Robotnik only.

 

If there's good, intuitive and creative level design and a good mesh of classic and modern Sonic gameplay, it can be as boring visually and writing-wise as it wants.  I really don't care anymore.  Just give me a decent length game that's actually fun to play, and a few extras like playable Tails or a Hard Mode, and I'll buy this game, no questions asked.

 

 

If Sonic games had the most interesting and fun levels ever but the aesthetics were nothing but stick figures and lines would you like it? No you probably wouldn't. Visuals go a long way to creating a fun experience for the player.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Soniman

[Marcello]

If the Sonic games had the most interesting and fun levels ever but the aesthetics were nothing but stick figures and lines would you like it? No you probably wouldn't. Visuals go a long way to creating a fun experience for the player.

That would actually be pretty original for a Sonic game.

[Blue Blood]

That would actually be pretty original for a Sonic game.

 

How often are Sonic games unoriginal in themselves though? So to suddenly look generic would be a set back (just as it would be for any series).

[JezMM]

It's easy to put any cast member into a story, but the tricky part is having the story improve with their presence.  Sure, "Shadow is investigating this Lost World because GUN told him to" - but he has to DO something that affects the overall plot.

 

It can't just be "Shadow is also investigating stuff but Sonic ends up doing it his way first".  What does Shadow do that affects Sonic?  What does Shadow do that serves the story's interest?

 

An example of this done well and badly is Rouge.

 

In SA2 she furthered intrigue into the story by unearthing the true nature of The Ultimate Lifeform project, while also giving motivation for Knuckles to tag along with Sonic after discovering Rouge was in cahoots with Eggman, and of course, it was through said tagging along that Knux is able to stop the chaos emeralds with the master emerald at the end.  If Rouge hadn't tried to steal the master emerald, the chaos emerald program would have been unstoppable and the earth would have been destroyed.

 

 

Meanwhile, in Shadow the Hedgehog, she at various points appears alongside Shadow.  The most notable example would be when she spies on Shadow and Black Doom's conversation in Death Ruins before the Black Bull boss fight.  She does this independantly of Shadow, whether you were good or evil on the previous mission.  She's clearly doing work for GUN here, trusting Shadow to do the right thing personally, but under orders to investigate the threat regardless of her friendship with Shadow.

 

This scene amounts to nothing.  Her discovering that something bad is going to happen in a few days doesn't ever come up in any form.  Perhaps it could be said to be through this encounter that Sonic and friends find out that they need to investigate The ARK and the Black Comet, but since the Rouge cut-scene doesn't happen on every possible storyline, that's sort of inconsequential.

Of course Shadow's storyline is very up to debate on what is canon and what isn't, as the Last Story depends on events from many

different alignments in the main game, but hopefully the example still stands.

 

 

 

It is easy to justify characters appearing for the sake of fanservice, but if they aren't relevant and do important things in the plot that are interesting and believable, it's bad writing.

Edited May 20, 2013 by JezMM

[azoo]

Well thats all true and whatnot (hence why Colors DS and Generations were just blegh with that), but I feel like the jokier characters are the ones that are easier to implement. Do you know how awesome it would be to run into the Chaotix, Big, Prof Pickle, or Wentos just going around the planet for their own weird reasons? 

Edited May 20, 2013 by Azookara

[WarioBone]

If Sonic games had the most interesting and fun levels ever but the aesthetics were nothing but stick figures and lines would you like it? No you probably wouldn't. Visuals go a long way to creating a fun experience for the player.

 

You ever play those Fancy-Pants games (or whatever the fuck they're called)?

 

It's literally Sonic made of sticks and lines and they're insanely fun.  So yeah, I would think it was fun.

[Nepenthe]

I acknowledged that there's more to writing a story than including a character, and subsequently I agree that merely including a character isn't grounds for a good story. At the same time though, and what my ultimate point is, is that the mere potentiality for bad writing is irrelevant to the act of asking for a character to appear in future games. For one thing, no one wants to change the Sonic series for the worse anyway; any suggestions made are done so under the good faith that a person has the best intentions, which means assuming that people also want good writing to accompany their favorite characters' inclusion anyway. Second, fans can only do so much; once the suggesting, complaining, and bitching is done, ultimately the future of the franchise is in Sonic Team's hands. I can't force them to write well, as much as I'd want them to, so how things turn out isn't my fault, no more than it is classic fans' fault that Sonic 4 turned to shit or Adventure fans' fault that Sonic 06 blew. Sonic Team's responsibility is to parse criticism so they can satisfy an audience, and that responsibility doesn't stop at merely agreeing with the ideas of the fan base.

[ArtFenix]

A good story doesn't mash characters in at random.

This is so uncalled for!

Ok, listen.

First comes a concept of a game.

Then there is supposed to be some kind of a story

And then they decide who will appear in said story and why.

 

 

That's what friggin' writers do! They WRITE. And they can include ANYONE and they can come up with a reason for a character to appear especially if that character is not even playable.

I hope that's clear now.

[Soniman]

You ever play those Fancy-Pants games (or whatever the fuck they're called)?

 

It's literally Sonic made of sticks and lines and they're insanely fun.  So yeah, I would think it was fun.

 

It was ALWYAS like that first of all, it's free second. I highly doubt you would pay 50-60 bucks for a game like Fancy Pants.

[WarioBone]

This is so uncalled for!

Ok, listen.

First comes a concept of a game.

Then there is supposed to be some kind of a story

And then they decide who will appear in said story and why.

 

 

That's what friggin' writers do! They WRITE. And they can include ANYONE and they can come up with a reason for a character to appear especially if that character is not even playable.

I hope that's clear now.

 

Just because they can put something in doesn't mean they should.  That's common sense.

 

I can pretty much guarantee, short of a miracle, that shoehorning Shadow, Rouge, Omega, or other "serious" characters into this game would make it nothing but worse.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Game & Wario

[azoo]

It was ALWYAS like that first of all, it's free second. I highly doubt you would pay 50-60 bucks for a game like Fancy Pants.

 

Especially when Rayman Origins / Legends are basically Fancy Pants Adventures plus actual effort in the art department, combat, collectibles and countless other things. :v

 

Also, not trying to butt in ArtFenix, but I think JezMM explained pretty why its not exactly that easy to just implement characters into a story haphazardly.

[Masterofnone169]

It was ALWYAS like that first of all, it's free second. I highly doubt you would pay 50-60 bucks for a game like Fancy Pants.

 

I don't know.  Super Meat boy is very popular.

[Soniman]

I don't know.  Super Meat boy is very popular.

 

But SMB has an actual artstyle.