Sonic Adventure 1 Prototype + Sonic Adventure 2 Pre-Release ~ Origin topic owner in thread

[Chaos Warp]

Now that I think about it, with the test level and the layout (now that we can see it better) of Windy Valley Beta, we now have strong evidence that at one point Sonic Team was trying to get slope-and-momentum based gameplay working in 3d for SA1. Gives great insight into the development of the first real 3d Sonic Game, and a bit more hope that they might actually try again.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Generations (Chaos Warp)

[MamboCat]

Nosing through the thread and watching those YouTube videos... looks like both ranking and rail grinding might have been planned.

 

There's some icons for A, B, C and S and by looking at the test levels there are long thin tubes that look like grind rails in SA2 and onwards...

 

This is all really interesting stuff!

[Diogenes]

Rankings, maybe. Although it already uses A-B-C for missions.

The "rails" you're seeing I think are more like pinball tracks. They'd need special scripting to work, though.

[Metamorphosis]

I didn't realize prototypes of old games was such a big thing. I mean, I have loads of Sonic prototype games that I'm pretty sure have never been released on the web and I never realized people got really nerdy over them. 

[Chaos Warp]

I didn't realize prototypes of old games was such a big thing. I mean, I have loads of Sonic prototype games that I'm pretty sure have never been released on the web and I never realized people got really nerdy over them. 

Wait what? You better not be pulling our leg here. What do you have?

[WarioBone]

The "rails" you're seeing I think are more like pinball tracks. They'd need special scripting to work, though.

 

That's actually pretty fucking cool; at least, if they got them to work.

 

Kinda sad that the dropped the one thing you've been asking for for ages about fifteen years ago, eh?

[Metamorphosis]

Wait what? You better not be pulling our leg here. What do you have?

 

I'm not exactly sure what everything is exactly :/ . I really don't understand the stuff very well. I should probably ask my boyfriend, since he is really the one who gets me this stuff.

[Chaos Warp]

I'm not exactly sure what everything is exactly :/ . I really don't understand the stuff very well. I should probably ask my boyfriend, since he is really the one who gets me this stuff.

Yeah you should.

Who knows, you might have stuff we already have or have an incredibly sought-after prototype that you don't know is sought-after. 

[MamboCat]

I didn't realize prototypes of old games was such a big thing. I mean, I have loads of Sonic prototype games that I'm pretty sure have never been released on the web and I never realized people got really nerdy over them. 

 

O.o

 

How... how in heck? Share!

 

Rankings, maybe. Although it already uses A-B-C for missions.

The "rails" you're seeing I think are more like pinball tracks. They'd need special scripting to work, though.

 

Hmm... could be... they seemed a little too close together for that, but yeah you're probs right.

Edited May 22, 2013 by MamboCat

[spinny]

I'm not exactly sure what everything is exactly :/ . I really don't understand the stuff very well. I should probably ask my boyfriend, since he is really the one who gets me this stuff.

 

Are you sure it's not just the demo with no vocals in City Escape and all that? (you said in your status it was Sonic Adventure 2). Not trying to be a killjoy or anything, just not holding my breath.

 

If it really is something early, that'd be freaking awesome to see. Especially if it was from the Sonic, Shadow and Knuckles being playable only and Sonic in Sky Rail stuff, even though I think the latter was just a mockup. 

[Metamorphosis]

Are you sure it's not just the demo with no vocals in City Escape and all that? (you said in your status it was Sonic Adventure 2). Not trying to be a killjoy or anything, just not holding my breath.

 

If it really is something early, that'd be freaking awesome to see. Especially if it was from the Sonic, Shadow and Knuckles being playable only and Sonic in Sky Rail stuff, even though I think the latter was just a mockup. 

 

I wouldn't get excited since it's probably nothing too exciting. 

 

It's way before the demo and it's in something called 'Alpha' phase. I don't think it's very different to the main game though. It's probably nothing...

[Linkabel]

I wouldn't get excited since it's probably nothing too exciting.    It's way before the demo and it's in something called 'Alpha' phase. I don't think it's very different to the main game though. It's probably nothing...

I think you are talking about the Sonic Adventure 2 Alpha which was what magazines got in order to review the game. From what I remember this was discussed in Retro too, still it's cool to own it I guess.

[Metamorphosis]

I think you are talking about the Sonic Adventure 2 Alpha which was what magazines got in order to review the game. From what I remember this was discussed in Retro too, still it's cool to own it I guess.

 

Yeah it's pretty similar to the retail game now that I think about it. The only real difference is that certain characters aren't playable. I don't think Tails is in it actually unless I have terrible memory.

 

Besides, Alpha is the state a game goes in just before a game gets released isn't it? 

 

I have other prototypes of other game franchises though. I should probably look into them more.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Metamorphosis

[Vec]

Oh, I'm such a sucker for betas and prototypes...And of all things you find Windy Valley Beta!!!!

 

 

Besides, Alpha is the state a game goes in just before a game gets released isn't it? 

 

I have other prototypes of other game franchises though. I should probably look into them more.

 

No, If I remember right, alphas are very early prototypes

[Solly]

I'm really interested in seeing where this is headed. I always like looking through unused game assets. It gives some insight into the development process and there are always a lot of interesting concepts scrapped. 

Besides, Alpha is the state a game goes in just before a game gets released isn't it? 

No. It usually goes Pre-Alpha > Alpha > Beta > Release Candidate (gamma, delta) > and then the final product. 

[Celestia]

Now that I think about it, with the test level and the layout (now that we can see it better) of Windy Valley Beta, we now have strong evidence that at one point Sonic Team was trying to get slope-and-momentum based gameplay working in 3d for SA1. Gives great insight into the development of the first real 3d Sonic Game, and a bit more hope that they might actually try again.

Didn't we already know that, though?

 

I mean, when Spin Dashing in the Adventure games Sonic does gain speed downhill/loses speed going uphill, and the level design does occasionally involve momentum-based stuff. Like running on walls, and sometimes curves that send you flying up into the air (best example of this is early on in Final Egg, IIRC). It wasn't exactly utilized to it's full potential, but the actual mechanics were definitely there and they occasionally got the chance to shine.

[goku262002]

Yeah it's pretty similar to the retail game now that I think about it. The only real difference is that certain characters aren't playable. I don't think Tails is in it actually unless I have terrible memory.

 

Besides, Alpha is the state a game goes in just before a game gets released isn't it? 

 

I have other prototypes of other game franchises though. I should probably look into them more.

Lets make it easier on you. is there names and dates on your prototypes? if so, share those names and dates.

All documented alphas and betas of anything sonic have been named and dated. the dates are important since it shows how early the build of that game was in its developement.

[Tenko]

Not like it would ever happen but what would be a god send is if that early prototype of Sonic 1 showed up. The one that got swiped at a convention.

Speaking of, how many betas or prototype things have been swiped at conventions. I seem to recall prototype cards and figures for PSO Ep III going missing too.

[Vec]

This was at Retro, was it known? 

 

Notice something peculiar in this falling Amy pic?

 

[goku262002]

If nobody has guessed it yet:

Her dress was supposed to fly upwards when falling. pervy sonic team is pervy~!

BETA CHAO GARDEN FOUND!!!

Sweet. Thanks a bunch.

I noticed that for the Chao Gardens, the key is different. But unlike the final, the key in this version is CA80000. Garden00 (Station Square garden) is pretty much identical to the final version, with textures as well. Garden01 (Egg Carrier) however...

For those unfamiliar:

Yeah, for some reason it's completely hollow underneath. Also you can make out a small platform for the transporters. So maybe it wasn't a test map after all? There aren't any textures for this though.

But here's the obj file for you to tinker with. I can't seem to get GARDEN02 loaded though, but the file is pretty small and only contains a ring in the object list anyway.

For those who are waiting for the object file for Windy Valley part 1, the address is 11ED8 and the key is the standard SA1 level key.

EDIT: False alarm on GARDEN02.

Download link to OBJ file. You wont need textures for this one I think.

I can't seem to get whatever's at 8c170B48 to load though. Looks like the key is CA90000 and the address is EE04, which might be the Chao Race map. But it's a different key than anything else. This is the last address in the LandTable address list as far as I can see.

[smogfog]

This was at Retro, was it known? 

 

Notice something peculiar in this falling Amy pic?

 

 

 

If nobody has guessed it yet:

Her dress was supposed to fly upwards when falling. pervy sonic team is pervy~!

All the guys are like that, aren't they?

Yeah, animators just like her panties.

http://youtu.be/x4UqweBW4dc?t=1m13s

[The drunkard from space!]

Sorry if I sound pushy but is the beta level done exporting yet?

[t0ms0nic]

Oh, that! Someone at Retro wasn't able to finish it, but they've got the assets ready for Sonic GDK for anyone else to have a poke around with it;

 

Here are the sonic GDK assets if anyone wants them, Warning scales are off, and it lacks proper set up to work in Sonic GDK as an optimized game experience.
but its a good starting point if anyone wants to dive in and have some fun. ( I recommend converting the level mesh to non SGDKStaticmesh and just use physics Volumes where slopes are located. that's if you plan on doing a serous map. otherwise don't worry about it.

I would finish it but I have Jam's sonic world, and AXSX to work on. toooo many projects and so little time. I may jump on this from time to time though if no one else tackles it.


P.S. Lets see some pointless run around videos with people falling to there deaths.
http://www.mediafire.com/?nk1ynax9mrs93qs

Edited May 24, 2013 by t0ms0nic

[goku262002]

Forgot this topic existed...

Bump with recent developements.

The "At Dawn" segment of Speed Highway is now available for SADXPC:

Unfortunately Knuckles' layout is completely screwed up, which makes me think it's designed for an older version with a different object list (the AutoDemo's is identical to the final except the final added some to the end).

To add to a new find to this thread, using some of the old SADX tools SANiK made, I have found that the tornado section of Windy Valley's beta does exist!

This is just a preliminary hunt in hopes we can find a way to properly rip the level, but we now know it exists! Haha.

[t0ms0nic]

So, it took about half a year, but evilhamwizard from Retro actually got Acts 1 and 3 of the Windy Valley prototype playable in SADX as a mod for the SADX Mod Loader! Videos incoming along with his comments spoilered for size;

 

Using the method I mentioned in the SADX/SA1 hacking topic I was able to port over the geometry for Act 3 from the Autodemo. There are some setbacks with this method. On top of that, I made a slight error when generating the nodetable so I wasn't able to modify the individual materials for each object in the landtable. I didn't bother to replace the textures yet, as I don't have anything to really use and was more concerned with just getting anything loading up at all. I modified the original SET file to include only the objects that I was able to identify in both the final retail version and the prototype's object list. There weren't that many similarities between the object lists, and I probably got one or two things wrong. I also have a hunch that the SET file included in the Autodemo might be for an even earlier version of the level, so the object type IDs probably don't match either (at least the later type entries don't match). What leads me to believe this is that the level is completely void of enemies save for one, and I know there should be more based on earlier videos. But the common objects like the rings and springs seem to match the level pretty well. Although I'm not sure why the level doesn't have item boxes and dash pads as it looks like the level was meant to use at least a few.

The cam file included in the Autodemo for this act has nothing in it, so the camera has to be controlled manually. The camera frequently went under the floor especially going down slopes. I suppose the game remedied this a tad with path data, which I didn't port over (it should be in 1ST_READ somewhere, though). The starting position for Sonic was ported over though and that does exist in 1ST_READ along with the starting position for the missing Act 2. The death zones should also be in 1ST_READ, but all I did was lower the death zone that already existed for the stage.

For the level itself - it's fun to play. There are definitely a lot more alternate paths and routes to take and even some little spots to explore that could've been used for hidden items and such. The camera is a bit of a pain as you can see in the video, but I bet it would've been much better if they had included something in the CAM file. The one lone spring in the level shoots you up very very high so I'm not sure if that behavior was intended. There are lots of spots where you can be lifted around by wind gusts across gaps and such. Near the end of the video you can see what appears to be a dock on one edge of the cliff and then another one just like it on a cliff below, possibly for the RAFT object that was meant to be in the level.

And that's about it. I was thinking about releasing what I have, but I know that there were a few people working on getting the levels ported over more accurately. I hope this at least boosts interest again. Act 1 is possible to port over in the same manner but the level has tons of objects and it'd take some time. But at least that act has a CAM file that does stuff.

I apologize in advance for the video quality. Youtube sux.

PS: As a side note, I mentioned before that I found data for the tornado. Looking at it again, the data I located doesn't appear to be an actual level object. It seems that it might be part of the tornado enclosure for the missing Act 2. There are even subroutines that are used to load up the data and the related textures still in STG02.BIN. Unfortunetly, because of this I don't know what object in the prototype's object list is meant to be the tornado that loads in Act 1. It should be an object that only appears once in the act's set file, but it's hard to track down with DXEdit because there are so many objects in the set file.

 

 

Again I apologize for the video quality. I was fiddling around to make sure you could see everything there was to the level, so it's not exactly a playthrough.

A few things about this part. This act actually has it's CAM file, so you can kinda play it without fiddling with the camera too much. However, it might've been meant for an older version of the camera system so the camera might act weird in some places. As it was discussed in the SADX/SA1 hacking topic, the SET file for Act 1 has a lot more objects than the game can load at one point (I think the SET file originally contained 1800 objects). There are an ass ton of flowers. I trimmed it down by taking out the objects I wasn't sure that I would be able to find an equivalent for. I had to manually insert the tornado into the set file, because I don't think it existed as a place-able object in the prototype. There might have been some event flag at one point that would load it onto the map via a subroutine for the level, or maybe it was part of some other object that would be triggered under a certain event. But I needed to add the tornado in order to move on to the next act. I also didn't mess with the textures again this time either for the same reasons I stated before.

For the level itself, it's pretty interesting. Much like Act 3 there are parts where you can be carried off by wind to reach little hidden areas that you can use to backtrack. Ring placement seems to hint at paths you can run around on in the air, but since I didn't port over the path data you can't do that here. After realizing my mistake from making the set file for the last act, I realized that there are more enemies than I previously thought. However, the odd part is that out of the three possible enemies that can be loaded only two are used. The chameleon badniks aren't loaded anywhere but they are part of the object list for the level, and there are videos where you can see that they at least existed for Tails in Act 3. Another thing I realize now is that the area shown in this picture:



Is actually the beginning part of Windy Valley Act 1. I don't think Amy's supposed to be there though. I didn't check to see if maybe init start position coordinates for her exist that might put her somewhere on Windy Valley. Also, going back to Act 3, in this picture:



Is actually near the end of the first act, right around where the tornado loads in the mod. I haven't checked if there are starting position coordinates for Big for this level either.

 

Playing it with the objects as they were made to be, you can definitely see why they decided to scrap these versions and make the new ones. Still, at least now (most of) the legendary lost level is playable in it's home as opposed to a Generations mod!