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Mario Kart 8 (Wii-U)


Nintendoga

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While Sonic Transformed was a more skill-based game (one I consider better than a lot of Mario Kart entries) it sort of taught me why the Blue Shell was implemented in the first place. While in Mario Kart it's an unfairly good item that turns first place into a very vulnerable position, Sonic Transformed has the opposite problem.

 

In Transformed, first place is quite arguably the safest or one of the safest positions. Getting hit by items is less of a worry because you're ahead of everyone else, who are all too busy pelting each other with Ice and Blowfish to even touch you. 

 

That said, I agree with you, and I hope they nerf the hell out of it. 

 

In other words it doesn't punish you for playing good? I wouldn't really call that a problem.

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In other words it doesn't punish you for playing good? I wouldn't really call that a problem.

I can't tell you how many times I've undeservedly won in multiplayer just because I escaped the cluster fuck early on. The problem is that items in Sanic are put so close together and everyone's constantly getting hit by each other without a reasonable way to defend themselves, but once someone escapes that pack for even a brief period, they're much safer.

1st place is going to be under fire from 2nd place, but 2nd place is going to be under fire from 1st place AND 3rd place. And it gets worse the farther you go back, excluding last place. This is really more of a problem with Transformed's item balance than anything else, but 2nd-last becomes Item City, USA. It becomes less about rewarding skill and more about letting the lead driver put miles between himself and everybody else because they're too busy killing each other.

But I'm someone who thinks most of the items in Transformed are shit anyway, so yeah.

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This is one of the things I miss about F-Zero.

 

You only have one attack, and it's native to every racer

 

Attacking in F-Zero is really fucking hard with how much it has to do with timing and positioning makes it really fucking satisfying when you master pulling it off.

 

If you're going to attack in a racer, it should be with skill, not this fucking "lol red shell" crap.

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To be fair if you're really hoping for masses of balance in Mario "Even Grandma can win" Kart, you're kinda playing the wrong game.

 

Hopefully they'll put in item customisation options so if it's your preference you can turn off all the weapons/items that don't require skill to use, AND let you use such options on online multiplayer.

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I'm not hoping for balance, I'm hoping for there to not be frequent  dickery.

 

Smash bros is a good example: Items randomly appear, first person to pick it up gets it.

 

The fact that dickery items are just sitting in specific areas and instantly respawn makes it so much more frustrating than it should be.

 

Let me put it this way: I got up to 150cc before I sold Mario Kart 7. When I was in first place, I wasn't feeling satisfied, I knew full well I was going to lose that position for reasons beyond my control, all that happened when I got in first place was biting my lip in the vain hope that nothing happens.

 

And it did. Always. Every single goddamn time I would get hit by something or fall off the ledge because the concentration-hindering panic of keeping my position for more than 20 seconds.

 

This isn't a family game. This isn't even a hardcore racer. It's a clusterfuck of things that will fuck you over regardless of skill level, and seriously unsatisfying rewards for surviving it.

 

 

Fucking hell I hate Mario Kart so goddamn much

Edited by Solkia
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To be honest I think Single Player is a whole different kettle of fish to multiplayer.  In multiplayer things feel fair because when you get hit by a blue shell you know there is a losing player (who could have been you) who sent it, and you'd do the same in their position.

 

Somehow, CPU players doing the same thing is more anger inducing, and was literally the only difference between Mario Kart Wii and previous games - on 150cc CPU players no longer hold back and get equality in item distribution just like human players do - the people at the back are constantly getting awesome weapons just like human players.

 

 

I... don't have any solution suggestions to this phenomenon really, aside from going back to the old style where CPU players seemed to only get amazing weapons rarely.

Edited by JezMM
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Well:

 

1.Get rid of the Blue Shell. There's something wrong when there's an item that punishes someone for being in first place, and can hit players unfortunate enough to be in it's path in the process.

 

2. Don't give the weapons out like candy on Halloween. The fact that they're always in the same spot and their respawn rate is less than 5 seconds is fucking ridiculous design. Have the weapon cube things randomly appear on the track at random times on the track. Thus my Smash Bros comparison earlier.

 

3. Give racers an attack they can only use once per race. That way the race doesn't just consist of launching green and red shells the entire time, and it has to be conserved for the right moment.

 

 

Although people would bitch if it did happen. God forbid a game have design that makes sense.


To be honest I think Single Player is a whole different kettle of fish to multiplayer.  In multiplayer things feel fair because when you get hit by a blue shell you know there is a losing player (who could have been you) who sent it, and you'd do the same in their position.

 

 

 

That's not really saying much. One person gets left feeling good, and the other feels dicked over.

 

I played online with Cola and some other people

 

 

1. I was in last because I suck

 

2. he was in first because he rocked

 

3. I got a blue shell and fired it

 

4. hit cola right before the finish line, and Nicolette ended up in first.

 

I'm pretty sure Cola felt cheated by me in that race considering the reaction on skype, though I imagine he'll beg to differ.

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Hummm I don't really like those ideas myself.  Many of them feel less balanced to me.
 

Well:
 
1.Get rid of the Blue Shell. There's something wrong when there's an item that punishes someone for being in first place, and can hit players unfortunate enough to be in it's path in the process.


Honestly, I would have agreed with this if it DIDN'T hit everyone on the way.  The item was ridiculous in DD to Wii because it had next to no benefit for the far back racer it was bestowed upon.  When it hits everyone in the way (or at least in the center of the track, this is very fair as you do hear it coming and CAN move out the way if you're in anything other than 1st), it actually will give the player using it some advantage relevant to them rather than to the person in 2nd/3rd at the time.  I also never have too much problem with the blue shell in the fact that, if you hear it coming, it's not out of the question to slow down and let someone overtake you so it hits them instead.  If no-one is around to let you overtake them, chances are you're far enough ahead for it to not ruin your 1st place streak in one single blow.

 

I think I'd be more than fine with them nerfing it back to Mario Kart 64 though and getting rid of the explosion.
 

2. Don't give the weapons out like candy on Halloween. The fact that they're always in the same spot and their respawn rate is less than 5 seconds is fucking ridiculous design. Have the weapon cube things randomly appear on the track at random times on the track. Thus my Smash Bros comparison earlier.

 

This seems less fair to me than them all being in the same place for everyone.  The Smash Bros comparison didn't mean much to me either because if a Pokéball spawns on the left of the arena, you are on the left and your opponent on the right, no amount of skill is gonna earn them that Pokéball unless you fuck up hard.
 

3. Give racers an attack they can only use once per race. That way the race doesn't just consist of launching green and red shells the entire time, and it has to be conserved for the right moment.


Wouldn't pretty much all racers save this for the last lap near the end though, causing a last second clusterfuck?  I know I would, always thinking "what if there's a situation even worse just around the corner" whenever I think to use it, just like super powerful healing items in RPGs etc.

Edited by JezMM
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Bare in mind that on DS, MK7, and also in MK8, you have a map screen that display what items people have, so you can avoid possible blue Shell incidents, as well as Lighting too. Also lightweight characters can easily breeze off Blue Shells with their high acceleration.

 

I agree with Jez-MM that they should go back to MK64, and get rid of the explosion that sends you skywards.

 

 

It might be just me through, but in the footage I've seen through, it looks like recovery time is faster for getting back up to speed, not just for falling out of bounds, but for getting hit by shells too.

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I do think a system should be put in place to reduce frustration from multiple hits.  Like, if you've been hit by a blue shell, for the next 3-5 seconds after any hits from other weapons will only knock you about half as much as they normally would, etc.

 

Also they absoloutely should get rid of losing your items when lightning bolted or falling off etc.

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Hummm I don't really like those ideas myself.  Many of them feel less balanced to me.

 

Honestly, I would have agreed with this if it DIDN'T hit everyone on the way.  The item was ridiculous in DD to Wii because it had next to no benefit for the far back racer it was bestowed upon.  When it hits everyone in the way (or at least in the center of the track, this is very fair as you do hear it coming and CAN move out the way if you're in anything other than 1st), it actually will give the player using it some advantage relevant to them rather than to the person in 2nd/3rd at the time.  I also never have too much problem with the blue shell in the fact that, if you hear it coming, it's not out of the question to slow down and let someone overtake you so it hits them instead.  If no-one is around to let you overtake them, chances are you're far enough ahead for it to not ruin your 1st place streak in one single blow.

I think I'd be more than fine with them nerfing it back to Mario Kart 64 though and getting rid of the explosion.

I'll admit there's been times when I could hear the Blue Shell coming, but couldn't tell where it was behind me, so it hit me on the way to the person in first place. I have no experience with the series other than 7 and battle mode in 64 (forgot to mention that)

I wasn't saying it hits everyone, I said it has the chance to hit racers other than the one in first.

I don't really remember how it worked in 64.

 

 

 

This seems less fair to me than them all being in the same place for everyone.  The Smash Bros comparison didn't mean much to me either because if a Pokéball spawns on the left of the arena, you are on the left and your opponent on the right, no amount of skill is gonna earn them that Pokéball unless you fuck up hard.

Point taken. Though It's still a clusterfuck the way items are currently set up.

 

How about this: the items wouldn't appear till the final lap. That way, up until then, everyone is racing on their own merits, but the third lap gives them a last chance for redemption.

 

Wouldn't pretty much all racers save this for the last lap near the end though, causing a last second clusterfuck?  I know I would, always thinking "what if there's a situation even worse just around the corner" whenever I think to use it, just like super powerful healing items in RPGs etc.

Not necessarily. Some people might use it in the adrenaline rush of a screw up causing someone to pass them. some may save it for a critical moment, and never actually come across a critical moment. Some may just fire it right at the start because they have no idea what they're doing.

Plus it wouldn't be as frequent as items are currently.

EDIT:tumblr_mp5ubregkq1s2r49wo1_500.jpg

 

Felix, your timing is impeccable. 

Edited by Solkia
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I'll admit there's been times when I could hear the Blue Shell coming, but couldn't tell where it was behind me, so it hit me on the way to the person in first place.

How about this: the items wouldn't appear till the final lap. That way, up until then, everyone is racing on their own merits, but the third lap gives them a last chance for redemption.

 

 

With the Blue Shell thing it pretty much always follows the dead center of the track, LIGHTLY altering it's course to hit anyone within a certain distance of the middle.  If you immediately steer to the track edges when you hear it it basically never hits you.

 

 

With the item thing it feels a bit overboard to move items - the thing that defines the kart racer genre - to only a third of the game.  If anything it'd only make it worse when the final lap comes round and the guy who's been leading through the whole race with skill gets pelted with shells.

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Banana's and Green Shells come way too often through, not to mention the possability that the Raccoon Tail may return too.

 

Actually, it felt pretty hard to even try to get pass the player in first in MK7 cause of the amount of defensive weopons they would get unless your really good with your aim and manage to nail them on the side.

 

Blue Shells are sometimes the only thing that can nail the person in the lead cause of their near "Invincability". aside from a well timed Lighting bolt.

 

 

 

You know what the game needs to tackle Leading racers? Have any of you played the Snowboard Kids games before, one of the items (I think it's the Ghost item) will seek the person in first and slow them down for a certain amount of time, their was also the Triple Ghost item that hit all opponents aside from the one that used it. 

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When people say get rid of those items that hit first, I immediately think of All Stars Racing Transformed. First place is on the other side of the map while everyone in the middle is killing each other. One of the major reasons I disliked multiplayer (well, excluding the fact it was awful and buggy to begin with).

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Some more MK8 details


  • MK8 development began just more than a year ago.
  • No others studio involved, 100% EAD Kyoto.
  • About the Gamepad use: ”Our priority is to provide the remote display on the GamePad only. We have other ideas, but that’s all we can tell you for now.”
  • Why no F-Zero instead?: ”H. Konno: It has always been a Mario Kart per console, so we wanted to get a new one to have more people interested by our new system. But I also hope that there will be an F-Zero.
  • About tracks size: ”In Mario Kart 8 tracks have also been narrowed compared to Mario Kart Wii and reflects more the size of the road. “
  • About customization: ”Like Mario Kart 7 (but) with a little more choice”
  • No editor, even if they talk about it.
  • About a Double Dash mode using the Gamepad: ”H. Konno: For Mario Kart Wii, 7 and 8, we decided not to use it. But this is a request that is often heard, so maybe we can meet this desire.
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It'd make sense to not have a DS style display on the Gamepad actually.  In Single Player it would make a dissonance between that and Multiplayer, and in Multiplayer, of course it would be completely unfair.

 

 

I still really wish Mission Mode would come back, I really liked that on DS, and was annoyed that Mario Kart Wii's competition mode was basically that but with limited ability to play.

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You talking about how the bottom screen displays the map right, remember that it also displays what items folks have, makes being aware of Blue Shells and lighting a lot more effective.

 

Yeah I think they already said you can displaying it on the Gamepad if your not using it as a Wii Wheel.

Edited by Dantemustdie00
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When people say get rid of those items that hit first, I immediately think of All Stars Racing Transformed. First place is on the other side of the map while everyone in the middle is killing each other. One of the major reasons I disliked multiplayer (well, excluding the fact it was awful and buggy to begin with).

Can somewhat agree to this but only because the swarm really should've been programed better in the first place (seriously, I can still drive right through one sometimes and not even get hit for some reason).

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About a Double Dash mode using the Gamepad: ”H. Konno: For Mario Kart Wii, 7 and 8, we decided not to use it. But this is a request that is often heard, so maybe we can meet this desire.

 

About a Double Dash mode using the Gamepad

 

About a Double Dash mode

 

Double Dash

 

N-no, please no. No one desires this! DON'T BRING THE DEMONS BACK, PLEASE!

Edited by Soniman
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If no one desires it, then what about the "requests that [are] often heard"? :V

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If no one desires it, then what about the "requests that [are] often heard"? :V

 

Quiet, I don't need your logic!

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But Soniman what if you like it a lot more here then you did in Double Dash?

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N-no, please no. No one desires this! DON'T BRING THE DEMONS BACK, PLEASE!

 

Blasphemy! Double Dash was awesome.

 

It wasn't necessarily the best entry gameplay-wise, but it certainly had a lot of charm and personality. Plus, it let you ride Wario's sweet ass motor from Wario Land 4. What's not to love?

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Double Dash was my favourite Mario Kart game until Mario Kart 7 came along.  Will never quite understand the hate for it (though I can admit it did introduce a lot of crappy stuff to the series, it was only VERY mildly crappy there, and it was Wii that exasperated the problems.

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I got MK7 and I was playing 150CC. There was a total of one blue shell the entire cup. Quite different than Mario Kart Wii.

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