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You know, in hindsight, this also makes that massive debate a dozen pages ago pointless over what character "has potential."

 

Not that Rosalina was seen as a shoe in, but you'd think after WFT came in we'd stop talking about who does and doesn't have a chance at showing up because they can't do anything with them, keeping in mind that they'll generally put in whoever they feel like putting in and work things out.

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Rosalina's cool and she has a lot of interesting tools. A lot of those tools will probably lead to her being busted. She's not really a character I would play for reasons other than being overpowered tho'.

 

Honestly, her and characters like the Villager / Mega Man set kind of an awkward precedent for future Smash newcomers. They're quite complex and have a very wide and varied move set that makes the vast majority of veterans seem painfully simple and straightforward.

 

I'm not sure the simpler characters will be balanced properly to keep up with them.

I don't know about Villager, but Rosalina looks like a very technical character. She'll likely be incredibly hard to use without a deep understaning of how she works, much like the Ice Climbers and Olimar. She also looks to be pretty useless in a one-on-one fight, relying on the Luma to set up her own attacks and possibly leaving herself wide open in the process. So no, she doesn't seem all that overpowered to me.

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I'm not sure what would lead you to believe that she's useless without her Lumas when not even the a single Ice Climber is incapable of dealing damage. Sure she'll be weaker but if she wasn't then she'd be even more ridiculous than I already think she is. Her Lumas can act entirely independent from her which allows for various set ups and incredibly safe edge guarding. They can also absorb attacks which helps Rosalina both offensively and defensively in tons of ways. Above all that, they can attack opponents even in the midst of her being grabbed.

 

The only thing highlighted in the trailer that I can infer may be a weakness is her recovery move which doesn't help much when trying to recover vertically. The level of skill required to play the character is irrelevant in overall character balance. She might also be light but that's jumping to conclusions. Isn't she a heavyweight in the Mario Kart games?

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You know, in hindsight, this also makes that massive debate a dozen pages ago pointless over what character "has potential."

 

Not that Rosalina was seen as a shoe in, but you'd think after WFT came in we'd stop talking about who does and doesn't have a chance at showing up because they can't do anything with them, keeping in mind that they'll generally put in whoever they feel like putting in and work things out.

Those discussions should have stopped the moment Captain Falcon was revealed for Smash Bros. 1

 

They didn't. They're still everywhere to this day even if half the playable cast "had no potential" by this point.

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Those discussions should have stopped the moment Captain Falcon was revealed for Smash Bros. 1

 

They didn't. They're still everywhere to this day even if half the playable cast "had no potential" by this point.

And this is why, despite my mixed feelings on it, Sakurai not giving a fuck and doing his own thing is a godsend.

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Kirby's friendship with the Luma makes me happy. As does this announcement.

 

I'm genuinely surprised that they're including Rosalina, but not unpleasantly so. It makes sense now that I think about it, she was playable in 3D World, and she's a popular character. Looks like she has some cool moves, too.

 

And hey, at least it's not Waluigi, ugh.

 

Seems fair, I love hard things...

 

*smirks*

 

I'm sorry.

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Those discussions should have stopped the moment Captain Falcon was revealed for Smash Bros. 1

 

They didn't. They're still everywhere to this day even if half the playable cast "had no potential" by this point.

Captain Falcon worked because the moveset suits his character. You can't add generic punches and kicks to other characters because it would be fucking stupid. Saying "Captain Falcon" in response to any post which brings up "moveset potential" is not a valid argument and people need to stop treating it like one. The characters who had no "source material" to derive any moves from worked because there was enough there to make up a moveset that actually works for the character, not because lol captain falcon or lol star fox.

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Captain Falcon worked because the moveset suits his character. You can't add generic punches and kicks to other characters because it would be fucking stupid. Saying "Captain Falcon" in response to any post which brings up "moveset potential" is not a valid argument and people need to stop treating it like one. The characters who had no "source material" to derive any moves from worked because there was enough there to make up a moveset that actually works for the character, not because lol captain falcon or lol star fox.

 

Which they do that for every other major Ninty character. Like they did with Captain Falcon, WFT, and Rosalina?

 

I think the point was people should stop using "no source material" as an excuse for a character not to be playable, because if they can find enough to make up a moveset that works for one character lacking source material, they can do it for everyone else, even the one's you think won't have a chance.

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Captain Falcon worked because the moveset suits his character. You can't add generic punches and kicks to other characters because it would be fucking stupid. Saying "Captain Falcon" in response to any post which brings up "moveset potential" is not a valid argument and people need to stop treating it like one. The characters who had no "source material" to derive any moves from worked because there was enough there to make up a moveset that actually works for the character, not because lol captain falcon or lol star fox.

but.. it's a perfectly valid argument. People say "there's no moveset potential" for characters who don't fight or have never fought in their games and every single time they get added to Smash Bros even though people said it would be impossible. That's as valid as valid can get.

 

Moveset potential is irrelevant in deciding a Smash character.

 

You could have argued in the early 90s that adding punches or kicks to CFalcon or Fox would be fucking stupid. You could also argue doing that to Phoenix Wright would be fucking stupid and he turned up in MvC3.

 

Literally every character under the sun has moveset potential if you really want them to which is exactly what happens with a lot of Smash characters. Zelda's moves have literally nothing to do with anything she's ever done ingame besides Shiek, and Shiek never once fought anyway. Smash Bros and other fighters have also proven that "clone" characters are always viable, any "potential" that's been already taken is still free pickings more or less.

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Captain Falcon worked because the moveset suits his character. You can't add generic punches and kicks to other characters because it would be fucking stupid. Saying "Captain Falcon" in response to any post which brings up "moveset potential" is not a valid argument and people need to stop treating it like one. The characters who had no "source material" to derive any moves from worked because there was enough there to make up a moveset that actually works for the character, not because lol captain falcon or lol star fox.

What "source material" justified giving a futuristic race car driver a flaming punch?

The series has already proved that it's very flexible when it comes to adapting characters. Hell, the AC Villager has a move that is based on putting things in your inventory. Just about any character who has been in a game has enough source material to build a moveset out of, by Smash standards.

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In all seriousness, though, Smash doesn't particularly have a need for villains. Most villain roles are already filled, so the only one I'd say is really necessary is K. Rool. Every other franchise has its main bad guy or doesn't have a prominent antagonist in the first place.

In my opinion the "villain role" that is still hadn't been filled for the past three games is the Yoshi series and the F-Zero series where both are woefully underrepresented with only one playable character from their franchise and the only two of the "original" ten series where they had yet to receive a second character rep. The "villains" that is necessary in my opinion is Black Shadow and Kamek from F-Zero and Yoshi series respectively, and 2014 could be the Year of Yoshi. Kamek was the main antagonist for Yoshi’s Island, Yoshi’s Island DS, and Yoshi’s Touch and Go while Black Shadow is a well-known antagonist of the F-Zero series. The time to include them as playable characters is now.

 

(You would do that won't you Sakurai? sad.png​ )

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Captain Falcon is an intergalactic bounty hunter. It's not too much of a stretch to assume he actually does some bounty hunting when he's not in his car.

 

I'm not even talking about any specific characters here that have no "moveset potential", I'm saying that "look at these completely unrelated characters" is a stupid cop-out that doesn't actually explain why this character would work. I can take a complete random and give them a bullshit moveset but then you're doing nothing more than pulling shit out of thin air because the character has nothing going for them.

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Captain Falcon is an intergalactic bounty hunter. It's not too much of a stretch to assume he actually does some bounty hunting when he's not in his car.

And being a bounty hunter grants him flaming falcon-shaped punches?

I'm not even talking about any specific characters here, I'm saying that "look at these completely unrelated characters" is a stupid cop-out that doesn't actually explain why this character would work.

It explains why that character could work because it explains that basically any character can work. And if we were talking about a specific character I'm sure we could come up with specific ideas, but since we're talking in generalities, general answers are all that can reasonably be given.

I can take a complete random and give them a bullshit moveset but then you're doing nothing more than pulling shit out of thin air because the character has nothing going for them.

What you call pulling shit out of thin air is what Smash does regularly.

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 I can take a complete random and give them a bullshit moveset but then you're doing nothing more than pulling shit out of thin air because the character has nothing going for them.

You mean kinda how they did with most of Princess Peach's moveset? Or R.O.B.? And how much would I be stretching for Game and Watch? Or even WFT for crying out loud?

 

Dude, the point is that any character can work, considering that taking a complete random character and making a moveset for them is exactly what they've been doing.

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Wait. Wait. Wait. What? Rosalina made it in? Wow. I'm surprised.

 

So basically she's Olimar+Ice Climbers? At least that what it seemed like in the gameplay. Not sure if I'll play with her very often but eh. 

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Captain Falcon is an intergalactic bounty hunter. It's not too much of a stretch to assume he actually does some bounty hunting when he's not in his car.

 

I'm not even talking about any specific characters here that have no "moveset potential", I'm saying that "look at these completely unrelated characters" is a stupid cop-out that doesn't actually explain why this character would work. I can take a complete random and give them a bullshit moveset but then you're doing nothing more than pulling shit out of thin air because the character has nothing going for them.

Any character, any "random" can have "something that makes sense for them". If Sakurai can invent the fact that Captain Falcon, a racer, can do fire punches (he can use magic too??) with a bird shape, then I can invent the possibility of Captain Viridian from VVVVVV dropping the letter V on people, turning his limbs into Vs to attack with, or screwing with someone's gravity, even if he can't do any of that in VVVVVV.

 

If you're saying that Captain Falcon's moveset is part of his inherent potential then literally every character can have similar potential based on their name, the themes of their franchise, their build, anything. The reason people bring up Captain Falcon is because he is a really good example of GIVING a character potential even if they pulled most of it out their ass.

 

I challenge you to find a character that people couldn't find potential for.

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Is it bad that I thought the trailer was about Kirby in Mario Kart 8 at first? :U

Though, after watching it, Rosalina looks like a really cool and interesting new addition to this game, though I do wonder how this Luma mechanic is going to work out, since the Luma seemed like it basically had a mind of its own in some parts of the trailer. Though either way, really happy with how she's looking, and really loving how unique all of the new additions have been so far!

Still slightly salty about no Bowser Jr though >:U

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Oh since no-one has mentioned it yet... I wonder if Rainbow Road will be a Mario Kart themed stage this time.  It might look a bit too similar to the Mario Galaxy stage visually, but eh, Spear Pillar looked pretty similar to Final Destination so not a big deal.

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