Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[TrueBlue]

WFT may make a certain amount of sense if you look at it that way, but literally no one apart from that supposed leaker guessed they would make it in. I still remember the reactions even now, nobody called it.

[kalion]

Wii Fit Trainer is the one character from an array of casual audience-focused Wii-originating IPs that, aside from gender, remains a constant, with no customization options or default option. Unless there's someone from Wii Music that I'm missing.

From a business perspective - "Who can we include in this game that can serve as one of the faces of our vast game library, that would also guarantee us profit when the game hits the shelves?" - Wii Fit Trainer makes a fair amount of sense.

 

You're saying all this in retrospect though. It's always easy to say...

[Captain Fun]

Wii Fit Trainer is the one character from an array of casual audience-focused Wii-originating IPs that, aside from gender, remains a constant, with no customization options or default option. Unless there's someone from Wii Music that I'm missing.

From a business perspective - "Who can we include in this game that can serve as one of the faces of our vast game library, that would also guarantee us profit when the game hits the shelves?" - Wii Fit Trainer makes a fair amount of sense.

You can explain it from a business point of view now, sure... but that doesn't change the fact that it was nobody else was predicting it as a character, by that particular name as well as Mega Man and "Animal Crossing Guy."

 

I get that some things in the "leak" are fishy but Wii Fit Trainer, Villager and Mega Man are absurdly lucky for a guess. Really, the reason this leak gets attention (besides the whole WFT thing) is the fact that it survived this long, even after direct-ageddon. 

 

WFT may make a certain amount of sense if you look at it that way, but literally no one apart from that supposed leaker guessed they would make it in. I still remember the reactions even now, nobody called it.

I remember some people being really furious. 

 

Good times.

[Solly]

Damn, Maximillian's a bit late on making a video about this. The second half of the alleged leak came out before the direct.

You do realize that the guy's original "leak" said his "unlikely predictions", right? The guy just got lucky, it wasn't a leak.

That was Sal Romano posting on his Gaf account. He is not the alleged leaker himself, he's the Gematsu editor who based his post on the leak he received one week prior. You do realize that, right?

 

Whether the leaker is telling the truth or not remains to be seen, but I don't think it's really worth attacking his credibility over the generic Pokemon answer either when we don't even know who he is or what his relationship to the game is. 

 

Wii Fit Trainer is the one character from an array of casual audience-focused Wii-originating IPs that, aside from gender, remains a constant, with no customization options or default option. Unless there's someone from Wii Music that I'm missing.

From a business perspective - "Who can we include in this game that can serve as one of the faces of our vast game library, that would also guarantee us profit when the game hits the shelves?" - Wii Fit Trainer makes a fair amount of sense.

Hindsight is 20/20. I could find nobody else who suggested this character before E3 as a possibility among literally hundreds of posts.

 

Beyond that though, it wasn't just that he got Wii Fit Trainer. It was that he called Wii Fit Trainer, AND Villager, AND Mega Man. It's probably also worth mentioning that of all rumored leaks, he hasn't been proven wrong yet. Again, I don't totally buy the leak, but people aren't crowding around him for no reason. 

[JaidynReiman]

 

You can explain it from a business point of view now, sure... but that doesn't change the fact that it was nobody else was predicting it as a character, by that particular name as well as Mega Man and "Animal Crossing Guy."

 

I get that some things in the "leak" are fishy but Wii Fit Trainer, Villager and Mega Man are absurdly lucky for a guess. Really, the reason this leak gets attention (besides the whole WFT thing) is the fact that it survived this long, even after direct-ageddon. 

 

I remember some people being really furious. 

 

Good times.

 

Mega Man and Villager are easy suggestions, and even that guy didn't get Villager's name right.

 

Sakurai did say that Wii Fit Trainer wasn't this games joke character, so I guess Choir Boys would fill that role. It'd be far better than Tingle, that's for sure. At least it'd be another new IP being represented in Smash Bros. I still don't believe the leaks at this point, though, I think he just got very lucky suggesting Wii Fit Trainer. But we'll see.

 

None of the other suggestions are at all surprising. Everyone thinks Chrom will replace Ike because Ike replaced Roy (a stupid comparison really, Roy literally was just a half-assed character thrown in at the last second while Ike had a lot more love put into his moveset), a lot of people want to see Shulk, Pac-Man seems incredibly obvious with Namco developing the game, Mii's are being used everywhere, and Palutena already had a leak from months prior and is widely requested.

 

 

Beyond that though, it wasn't just that he got Wii Fit Trainer. It was that he called Wii Fit Trainer, AND Villager, AND Mega Man. It's probably also worth mentioning that of all rumored leaks, he hasn't been proven wrong yet. Again, I don't totally buy the leak, but people aren't crowding around him for no reason. 

How does this make him more credible? A lot of people thought "Animal Crossing Guy" and "Mega Man." I for one figured Mega Man would make it this time, and we'd get an Animal Crossing character. Lucky him Nintendo decided to announce those three at E3, but Pac-Man and Mii were supposedly supposed to be announced at the same time. That part he got wrong. Yeah, he also got Little Mac... as did everyone else.

 

Either way I always take every "leak" with a grain of salt. If he gets Choir Boys right I'll believe him, because that's two WTF character suggestions nobody else ever considered. (Although I still  don't understand how he'd get all these other leaks and miss Rosalina...)

[Thigolf]

I'd ADORE the Chorus Men to be in. I just love wacky, obscure characters in Smash that normaly don't have to do anything with fighting, plus, I'm an enormous fan of the Rhythm Heaven games. They could also use moves of other minigames of the series, sort of like Mr. Game & Watch does it.

 

So yeah, I'd be so down for the Chorus men.

[Captain Fun]

Mega Man and Villager are easy suggestions, and even that guy didn't get Villager's name right.

Who would know what he meant if he said "Villager?" The character didn't exactly have a name before this. 

 

 

 A lot of people thought "Animal Crossing Guy" and "Mega Man."

 Did they predict them alongside WFT? 

 

 

 I for one figured Mega Man would make it this time, and we'd get an Animal Crossing character. 

I extend to you a 100% honest pat on the back. 

 

 

Either way I always take every "leak" with a grain of salt.

And Sal said to do as much. Still, it's not worth dismissing immediately, even if some things are suspect. 

[Solly]

How does this make him more credible? A lot of people thought "Animal Crossing Guy" and "Mega Man." I for one figured Mega Man would make it this time, and we'd get an Animal Crossing character. Lucky him Nintendo decided to announce those three at E3, but Pac-Man and Mii were supposedly supposed to be announced at the same time. That part he got wrong. Yeah, he also got Little Mac... as did everyone else.

 

Either way I always take every "leak" with a grain of salt. If he gets Choir Boys right I'll believe him, because that's two WTF character suggestions nobody else ever considered. (Although I still  don't understand how he'd get all these other leaks and miss Rosalina...)

Again, he hasn't technically been wrong yet. The reason calling Wii Fit Trainer in addition to Villager, Mega Man and Mac holds more merit is because getting all of them is more difficult than getting one of them.

 

It's kind of like if you flipped a coin for heads once, your chances would be 1/2, but if you tried to get heads three times in a row, your chances would be 1/8. Obviously the analogy doesn't translate to this situation 100% accurately, but it literally has to make him look more credible, even if he's far from being proven right. 

 

I'm very skeptical too, but Sal's source would've needed a lot of luck to predict everything he did. 

 

Who would know what he meant if he said "Villager?" The character didn't exactly have a name before this. 

It's also worth mentioning that the Villager, like Greninja, has a different Japanese name. That's not reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, obviously, but it offers a potential explanation on why he wasn't able to name either of them (and only them) accurately. 

[-Robin-]

Retrospect may play a part in it, but given Nintendo's steady aspirations to assimilate the casual crowd into buyers of the main Nintendo menagerie, of which Nintendo Land is an Exhibit A example, I would only be half surprised if Wii Fit Trainer, the face of a game that amassed massive profit for Nintendo and solidified a market for Nintendo to make use of, wasn't one of the first names on the list to include in the game to make Smash Bros. 4 Exhibit B.

The only reason we didn't expect WFT was because "we" are the hardcore demographic, where video games play an integral part in our lives. We were gluing our eyes and ears to the Direct 168 hours prior, with our "Smash 4 Newcomers" list with Pac-Man and Ridley & Knuckles ready to be check-marked. The leaker could just has easily namedropped WFT precisely because we ourselves weren't expecting a character known primarily to a casual demographic to be featured as a Smash Bros. fighter.

As for this new leak, Chorus Men is an odd one. Given how Olimar got his Pikmin supply cut in half and Charizard's no longer a team of three, it seems weird that Chorus Men would be made playable. Ice Climbers is a duo, true, but these guys are a trio. Maybe they could be purposefully underdetailed like Game and Watch and the Advance Wars AT in order to make that third guy work?

[Gabz Girl]

Gonna be honest and say that whoever could correctly predict Wii Fit Trainer, of all things, has my attention going forward. I really hope Shulk makes the cut.

 

Same here! I know Megaman and Villager are easy guesses but Wii Fit Trainer? Even when she was first revealed at E3 it literally came out of nowhere. Nobody was expecting that character to be in it, yet this guy predicted it correctly! Pretty sure this also means Shulk and Chrom will very likely be in the game, though I'm not sure about the Chorus Men. They're cute, but would they work? I guess if Ice Climbers and Olimar did, then they should too.

[Sami]

Retrospect may play a part in it, but given Nintendo's steady aspirations to assimilate the casual crowd into buyers of the main Nintendo menagerie, of which Nintendo Land is an Exhibit A example, I would only be half surprised if Wii Fit Trainer, the face of a game that amassed massive profit for Nintendo and solidified a market for Nintendo to make use of, wasn't one of the first names on the list to include in the game to make Smash Bros. 4 Exhibit B.

The only reason we didn't expect WFT was because "we" are the hardcore demographic, where video games play an integral part in our lives. We were gluing our eyes and ears to the Direct 168 hours prior, with our "Smash 4 Newcomers" list with Pac-Man and Ridley & Knuckles ready to be check-marked. The leaker could just has easily namedropped WFT precisely because we ourselves weren't expecting a character known primarily to a casual demographic to be featured as a Smash Bros. fighter.

As for this new leak, Chorus Men is an odd one. Given how Olimar got his Pikmin supply cut in half and Charizard's no longer a team of three, it seems weird that Chorus Men would be made playable. Ice Climbers is a duo, true, but these guys are a trio. Maybe they could be purposefully underdetailed like Game and Watch and the Advance Wars AT in order to make that third guy work?

Holy crap, lol. You're putting way too much thought into this. Hasn't Sakurai literally said in an interview that they picked Wii Fit Trainer because he wanted a character that no one would expect?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You know, people went against me for it representing a whole franchise only for it to be the opposite case this time around. A bitter, head-shaking experience looking back at that.

[damo]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but as someone working in medical health sciences I really can't let this one slide.

 

 

I think you're forgetting something critically important here.

This is a video game.

 

They're seriously just heels

 

High heels are a major public health problem. There's bigger problems, yes, but high heels are a unique problem since they manage to be something we've known are genuinely really unhealthy for a couple hundred years, and yet they still get  treated as "no big deal". Well they are a big deal, and we've got plenty of research to back that up.  We've known for a long time.  It's bad for your muscles, it's bad for your tendons, it's bad for your circulation, it's bad for your spine, it increases the odds of osteoporosis, and it greatly decreases your mobility. Wearing high heels is bad for you, and that's just a scientific fact.

 

Now if someone wants to wear a pair while drinking a cheeseburger-and-beer smoothie and smoking a pack of cigarettes, fine. Their decision.  We all do unhealthy things sometimes.  But the way people ignore centuries of medical science to pretend there's nothing unhealthy about high heels is pretty terrible. And the latest studies indicate people are playing a few billion hours worth of video games every week, so anyone claiming that video games have no impact on our culture is talking nonsense. There are important things out there than Samus' heels, sure. But sexualizing one of the most important and iconic female characters, in a major video game, by encumbering her with something that's a public health hazard, and having her act like they're not a problem for her in the game?  That's about as big a deal as it gets from video games.  I don't think anyone's going to go out and start shooting over a shooter, because we know that's bad.  I do think that constantly showing high heels as sexy and safe in all forms of media is going to have a negative effect, because people don't seem willing to accept that there's a downside there.

 

The argument that games don't have to be realistic has worn really thin for me.  No, games don't have to be realistic, but that shouldn't be a blank check, and it really shouldn't be used as a way to try and shoot down every argument that something in a game sends a bad message.  When Roger Ebert said that games can never be art, I wanted designers working harder to prove him wrong, not to shrug and go "yeah he's right, they're just stupid games, who cares?"

 

> ZSS Smash 4 design ... actually makes the high heels springy and practical, like Chell's Long Fall Boots from Portal

 

Look up the struts Chell wore in Portal. She was barefoot and basically had weird braces attached just below her knee.  In Portal 2 they added some spaceagey plasticy crap so she wouldn't be barefoot, and if you squint and bang yourself on the head a few times I guess they'd look like high heels, even though the strut's still nowhere near her actual heel... but like I said, in the first game there was no way on Earth you'd mistake them for high heels. And they were added with a clear in-game purpose from the start. Valve wanted to explain why Chell could fall without taking damage, and do insane jumps too.  They came up with springs.

 

Is that the case with Samus? Nope.  The high heels were introduced in Other M, where they served no purpose at all.  We probably would've said more about how stupid they looked, but we were too busy hating that whole game in general.  When a whole forest is ugly, you're not going to focus on one tree.  Smash tried to give them an explanation by putting rockets in them.  One small problem though.  Zero Mission (and the manga, and the old Nintendo Power comic, and the later guide material) had already established that Samus was a superhuman.  In Zero Mission she was able to jump well over a story high at any given moment.  Throw in the roll-jumps and she could scale skyscrapers while yawning. Did Nintendo come up with the high heels because they needed a way to explain Samus jumping high?  No.  In fact they ignored that they'd already given her the ability to jump high.

 

They basically made her weaker, removing her superpowers so they could put rockets in the heels and pretend the darn things were being useful.

 

So no, it's not like Chell, where a tool was designed to fill a need.  They didn't need the heels, but they wanted the heels anyway.  So they weakened Samus so that she would need a tool, and put one in the heels.

 

Being so hellbent on sexualizing an iconic female character that you make her weaker?  That's a new low.

 

 

Honestly, I'm not seeing it. The whole 'over sexualised' thing, I mean.

 

It's been incremental.

 

In the first few games, you beat the game and maybe for a few seconds, if you worked your butt off, you'd see Samus take off her armor like any soldier in history would when they're done fighting.  Something that didn't really sexualize her, at the end, taking up less than 1% of the game.  Then the Zero Suit came along, but that was just for a brief in-game segment.  And hey, the Prime games might've used the suit, but they didn't really push the T&A angle.  Although Smash Bros sorta did.  And then Other M gave her high heels, and the "camera" was absolutely so concerned with sexualizing Samus that you can find "serious" scenes where we're getting gratuitous shots of Samus' curves instead of focussing on what the scene was meant to be about.  And now SB had given her bigger breasts, and the Other M beauty mark and high heels, while making skintight-suit Samus something so prominent that it's a playable character in its own right.  She's been sexualized bigtime.

 

 

 

I guess I just don't see heels as being automatically a sexual thing. 

 

 

how the heck are jet heels, JET HEELS, that are in no way even the slightest bit  hot or anything but just made to look cool even remotely close to sexualizing a character?

 

 

 

If you don't see high heels as sexualizing her, that's fine. And it would definitely be fair to say there's more to high heels than just being sexual things.  But research has absolutely shown that high heels are one of the most common paraphilias. They sexualize. There's a reason that the women on the covers of dirty magazines wear high heels more than half the time. "High heels sexualize women" isn't much up for debate, we've moved on to trying to explain the why of it.  From the most recent research it looks like it's because high heels put women off balance, forcing them to use smaller steps and greatly exaggerated hip-swinging, which is seen as extremely feminine and sexy. 

 

This is the awkward thing though, do we let heels remain a symbol of sexuality, or do we allow this to be part of a transitional phase in which we stop thinking of them as automatically meaning "sexy"?

 

That might not be physically possible, sorry.  It looks like the brain is hardwired to see a "high heel walk" as more sexually arousing, and to thus see high heels as sexual in general.

 

 

So its a bad thing when samus is being sexualized?

 

Depends on how it's done.  Like I said, the early games managed to do it in a way that still portrayed her as an intelligent and capable person.  She killed every last Space Pirate she could find, clocked out for the day, took her armor off and relaxed. It was fanservice, sure, but it was well-done. 

 

And the fact that they did it tastefully for so long, without making the character look any less badass, is one of the reasons why I'd probably put this down as the worst implementation of fanservice in video games.  This was just stupidly clumsy, and doing it right after Other M sends the message that they listened to no criticisms about Other M.  Which is a bit worrying, honestly.  If they don't see a downside to making Samus more a sex object and less a badass, and they're continuing to ignore her background (Chozo weren't mentioned in Other M, and her Chozo upgrades are ignored here because they'd make the rockets redundant) then I've no idea what they think was the reason why Other M sold less than half the units that Prime did.

 

 

 Thing is that Samus isn't Bayonetta.  She's almost the opposite- stoic, task-driven and mindful.  Y'know, pretty much the opposite of what heels embody. 

 

This x 1000

 

 

But what about Raiden using them as well?

1. There's no widespread fashion trend of men wearing high heels, so honestly portraying him doing it without breaking his neck isn't going to start one.

2. It's not a shift to his characterization.  He was portrayed with them from the start, and honestly they're better integrated to his design.  He's got bits of funky metal jutting out all over the place.  Samus had a sleek wetsuit thing going on and then BAM clunky high heels. They don't fit.

3. Why are you acting like nobody called his high heels stupid? They did. I saw it happened. He had all sorts of slurs thrown at him for wearing high heels.

4. "Raiden who?"  Compared to Samus, he's not even a footnote in video game history.Seriously, there's exponentially more male characters than female characters in video games (I think of the games that give the main char a gender, women are only 4% or something like that? I'd have to check, but it's pathetically low), and you're able to find one male character in heels? Not to be rude, but what on Earth do you think that proves?  I keep seeing people go "aha, but Raiden!" like he's a "Gotcha" and for the life of me I can't figure out why they think they're proving. 

[JaidynReiman]

You know, people went against me for it representing a whole franchise only for it to be the opposite case this time around. A bitter, head-shaking experience looking back at that.

I'm confused, what point are you trying to make...? What do you mean by it being the "opposite" case this time around? Greninja? And if that's the case, where did Greninja pop up all of a sudden?

 

Not many predicted Greninja (some did look at the casts and predict Greninja as a possibility, not knowing who else to pick from X and Y), but the leaks we're talking about haven't brought up Greninja at all. They merely said "a Pokemon from X and Y." That's a bit vague; I think just about everybody predicted that one, they just didn't know who.

 

 

Sorry, CSS, I'm just a little bit confused as to what you're trying to respond to.

[JezMM]

That might not be physically possible, sorry.  It looks like the brain is hardwired to see a "high heel walk" as more sexually arousing, and to thus see high heels as sexual in general.

 

No, it's definitely culture.  While it's true that heels exaggerate the shape of the legs in certain ways, it's hardly hardwired.  What people find sexy is very influenced with what they are exposed to believe is sexy.

[Celestia]

Is that the case with Samus? Nope.  The high heels were introduced in Other M, where they served no purpose at all.  We probably would've said more about how stupid they looked, but we were too busy hating that whole game in general.  When a whole forest is ugly, you're not going to focus on one tree.  Smash tried to give them an explanation by putting rockets in them.  One small problem though.  Zero Mission (and the manga, and the old Nintendo Power comic, and the later guide material) had already established that Samus was a superhuman.  In Zero Mission she was able to jump well over a story high at any given moment.  Throw in the roll-jumps and she could scale skyscrapers while yawning. Did Nintendo come up with the high heels because they needed a way to explain Samus jumping high?  No.  In fact they ignored that they'd already given her the ability to jump high.

 

They basically made her weaker, removing her superpowers so they could put rockets in the heels and pretend the darn things were being useful.

...Damn. I hadn't considered that, actually. I didn't really care about the heels one way or the other, but thinking about it this way they are kind of pointless. Shame that the design can't really be changed at this point without...certain gamers getting ridiculously defensive.

 

For what it's worth I genuinely think the logic behind the heels here was that they based her on her most recent appearance but wanted to try and justify them somehow, rather than a (conscious) decision to weaken her. Still doesn't really make them necessary by any means, tho', they could've just not had them at all. Ehhhhhhhhhh.

[azoo]

About the Wii Fit Trainer thing..

 

In hindsight it's easy to say "yeah, I definitely could've seen those characters coming", but tbh WFTrainer, Villager, and Megaman were ALL out of left field for me, and they seemed to be for everyone else as well. How could've anyone expected such specific characters, unless they had some crazy obsession over that particular character and it was their lucky day?

 

Those three all in a row combined with Little Mac, Rosalina and Greninja leave that list to be so close to what we're getting it's uncanny. There's always the possible chance the guy spreading the rumors got REALLY lucky, but that just seems impossible at this point. The other ones he listed have a massive chance of being in the roster.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sorry, CSS, I'm just a little bit confused as to what you're trying to respond to.

Basically this.

Before:

-Person says they don't see X character making it in for whatever reason.

-I ask "who saw WFT again?"

-The response back is WFT represents a whole franchise, so it's not the same thing. To which several people agree with

Now:

-Someone says they don't see X character making it for whatever reason.

-Others respond "Who saw WFT making it in?"

-My response now after looking back to what I said is essentially, "Are you guys shitting me?"

And Greninja only adds icing to it.

[Sami]

Excellent post, Damo. That's quite a first impression. This may be late, but welcome to the forums. I'm happy to see such interesting discussion brought about. 

 

No, it's definitely culture.  While it's true that heels exaggerate the shape of the legs in certain ways, it's hardly hardwired.  What people find sexy is very influenced with what they are exposed to believe is sexy.

 

This is true, but it's more so commentary on how our culture places heavy emphasis on the curvaceous "hourglass" figure and exaggerated hip movement than it is about the actual heels themselves. You can't take away that association without altering what western culture views as sexual and attractive to begin with, because the shoes themselves and the movements they cause might as well be one and the same.

 

I, of course, have no issue with people saying that Samus being sexualized doesn't bother them. Different strokes, and not everyone expects her to be portrayed in a more respectable, non-sexual manner, which is perfectly fine. But to argue that she isn't sexualized at all or that people who are upset are grasping at straws in the face of enlarged breasts, a beauty mark, a redesign that intentionally draws the viewer's eyes to her breasts and buttocks, voluptuous marketing material, and functionally useless high heels isn't quite fair. 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Well, before we go any farther, here was the original Nintendo power looksie in conjunction with the super metroid release

http://i.imgur.com/KefnpWMl.jpg

 

http://www.gonintendo.com/s/221307-blast-from-the-past-nintendo-power-has-the-scoop-on-samus-measurements

 

 

Sigh, I miss the 90's nintendo sometimes

[azoo]

Yeah, that's where my argument sort of stemmed from a few pages back. I always viewed Samus like that (even when they first shown the Zero Suit), and that's what most of her appeal was. She's tough as shit and she doesn't even remotely care. She just happens to be attractive, but she doesn't flaunt it like Bayonetta or another character would. Not that it's bad to do, but it just didn't seem like her.

 

I can understand making Samus look the way she does to reflect the latest game in the series, but I really hope this isn't her image from now on. If so, then we're seeing something among the lines of a reverse Lara Croft situation. :v

[Blacklightning]

By this logic we'd get rid of the regular Hammer because the Super Hammer was added.  I agree with Diogenes.  I like having a mixture of always-reliable items and clunkier, trickier to use ones.

Who the fuck said anything about getting rid of items? All I ever said was that I couldn't really understand the appeal of the Fire Bar itself. If you happen to like the concept of items that are inherently inferior to others of its type by design, sure, good for you, but myself, I'm just not seeing it. It's not even like it's a joke item like say, the paper fan (and even that has legitimate applications) so I want to know if there is at all a way it compensates for its obvious shortcoming.

 

And for the record, no, I wouldn't have introduced the Super Hammer in the first place if it were up to me. I never did understand why the Brawl team felt they needed an upgraded hammer with absolutely no drawbacks to balance it out.

[JaidynReiman]

Excellent post, Damo. That's quite a first impression. This may be late, but welcome to the forums. I'm happy to see such interesting discussion brought about. 

 

 

This is true, but it's more so commentary on how our culture places heavy emphasis on the curvaceous "hourglass" figure and exaggerated hip movement than it is about the actual heels themselves. You can't take away that association without altering what western culture views as sexual and attractive to begin with, because the shoes themselves and the movements they cause might as well be one and the same.

 

I, of course, have no issue with people saying that Samus being sexualized doesn't bother them. Different strokes, and not everyone expects her to be portrayed in a more respectable, non-sexual manner, which is perfectly fine. But to argue that she isn't sexualized at all or that people who are upset are grasping at straws in the face of enlarged breasts, a beauty mark, a redesign that intentionally draws the viewer's eyes to her breasts and buttocks, voluptuous marketing material, and functionally useless high heels isn't quite fair. 

'Eh, I admit she's sexualized. The only problem I have is people complaining about her being sexualized now; she's always been sexualized, and I don't think the Zero Suit is nearly as bad as being able to unlock seeing Samus in a bikini if you beat the early games in a low time frame.

 

I hate over sexualization myself, but I don't think ZSS is as bad as people are suggesting. Now, yes, she is being sexualized, but not nearly so much as they could've chosen to do so and so it doesn't bother me all that much. The fact that she is a very strong character and does have the sexual appeal at the same time...

 

 

There are just other things in gaming with how women are portrayed that bother me way, way more than ZSS does.

[VO.SUPER]

'Eh, I admit she's sexualized. The only problem I have is people complaining about her being sexualized now; she's always been sexualized, and I don't think the Zero Suit is nearly as bad as being able to unlock seeing Samus in a bikini if you beat the early games in a low time frame.

 

I hate over sexualization myself, but I don't think ZSS is as bad as people are suggesting. Now, yes, she is being sexualized, but not nearly so much as they could've chosen to do so and so it doesn't bother me all that much. The fact that she is a very strong character and does have the sexual appeal at the same time...

 

 

There are just other things in gaming with how women are portrayed that bother me way, way more than ZSS does.

 

Not always; only in the Japanese iterations of the franchise. In the prime games, when Samus takes off her Zero suit, you rarely got the same sexualized vibe like with this. 

[Sami]

'Eh, I admit she's sexualized. The only problem I have is people complaining about her being sexualized now; she's always been sexualized, and I don't think the Zero Suit is nearly as bad as being able to unlock seeing Samus in a bikini if you beat the early games in a low time frame.

 

I hate over sexualization myself, but I don't think ZSS is as bad as people are suggesting. Now, yes, she is being sexualized, but not nearly so much as they could've chosen to do so and so it doesn't bother me all that much. The fact that she is a very strong character and does have the sexual appeal at the same time...

 

 

There are just other things in gaming with how women are portrayed that bother me way, way more than ZSS does.

 

It was stupid then and it's stupid now, but the difference with the bikini in the NES original is that it's not only a very easily ignorable five second long screen, and as Damo said can at least be interpreted as Samus just taking off her gear and relaxing after a mission. The Zero Suit has much, much more exposure and use than those ending screens ever did.