Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Diogenes]

All I ever said was that I couldn't really understand the appeal of the Fire Bar itself.

The appeal of the fire bar is beating a dude with a firey bludgeon that is also a Mario reference. That it's not necessarily the most effective bludgeoning item doesn't negate that.

[damo]

'Eh, I admit she's sexualized. The only problem I have is people complaining about her being sexualized now; she's always been sexualized

 

 

Well, like I said here.

 

It's been incremental.

 

In the first few games, you beat the game and maybe for a few seconds, if you worked your butt off, you'd see Samus take off her armor like any soldier in history would when they're done fighting.  Something that didn't really sexualize her, at the end, taking up less than 1% of the game.  Then the Zero Suit came along, but that was just for a brief in-game segment.  And hey, the Prime games might've used the suit, but they didn't really push the T&A angle.  Although Smash Bros sorta did.  And then Other M gave her high heels, and the "camera" was absolutely so concerned with sexualizing Samus that you can find "serious" scenes where we're getting gratuitous shots of Samus' curves instead of focussing on what the scene was meant to be about.  And now SB had given her bigger breasts, and the Other M beauty mark and high heels, while making skintight-suit Samus something so prominent that it's a playable character in its own right.  She's been sexualized bigtime.

 

I strongly disagree with you that this is better.  In the early games if you were insanely good you got maybe 10 seconds of Samus in a bikini, and that was something she chose to wear after she was done fighting.  After the world's been saved, you can take off your armor and lounge around in your underwear. It's a bit crass to let the player see it, sure, but in terms of what it says about Samus there was a very different message.  In the early games she was all business and serious on the job, and just knew how to relax afterward.  Now she's being presented in a very sexualized way during the gameplay proper.

 

And the thing with incremental changes is that anyone who says "I don't like this" at one step along the way is dismissed by people going "oh it's just a small thing".  And then one day the badass armored bounty hunter Amazon is shrunk down, slender, running around in a skintight suit, with big breasts, a beauty mark, and high heels. And if you say you don't like it, you're told "it's been like this for a while".  You can't win.

 

As for there being other things about women in gaming that are more important...

 

How many women are there in Smash? 

 

5.

 

How many are there that are JUST women? No "play as the male version" mode?  Well that's the Wii Trainer out, so 4.

 

Of those 4, Samus, Rosalina, Zelda, and Peach, which ones are the star of their own games?  Just Samus.  She's a pretty important figure in gaming history, and Metroid is the longest running and most respected series of games with a female star.  How she's treated is a good way to get the pulse for the video game industry in general.

[JaidynReiman]

It's been incremental.

 

In the first few games, you beat the game and maybe for a few seconds, if you worked your butt off, you'd see Samus take off her armor like any soldier in history would when they're done fighting.  Something that didn't really sexualize her, at the end, taking up less than 1% of the game.  Then the Zero Suit came along, but that was just for a brief in-game segment.  And hey, the Prime games might've used the suit, but they didn't really push the T&A angle.  Although Smash Bros sorta did.  And then Other M gave her high heels, and the "camera" was absolutely so concerned with sexualizing Samus that you can find "serious" scenes where we're getting gratuitous shots of Samus' curves instead of focussing on what the scene was meant to be about.  And now SB had given her bigger breasts, and the Other M beauty mark and high heels, while making skintight-suit Samus something so prominent that it's a playable character in its own right.  She's been sexualized bigtime.

I was referring to the concept of the "Zero Suit" as a whole, and how Samus is portrayed in Smash doesn't seem too severe. I've never seen Other M, though, so I didn't know how bad it actually was in Other M other than the fact I've heard people complaining about it non-stop.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

How many women are there in Smash? 

 

5.

 

How many are there that are JUST women? No "play as the male version" mode?  Well that's the Wii Trainer out, so 4.

 

Of those 4, Samus, Rosalina, Zelda, and Peach, which ones are the star of their own games?  Just Samus.  She's a pretty important figure in gaming history, and Metroid is the longest running and most respected series of games with a female star.  How she's treated is a good way to get the pulse for the video game industry in general.

 Well, on the upside there are a likely 3 possible additions in the form of Palentua, Dixie, and Sami; And Dixie actualy starred in one of the DKC games, and Sami is about equal to Andy in the Advance wars series

 

Oh and you technicly forgot Jigglypuff, who is assumably female... I think

[JaidynReiman]

 Well, on the upside there are a likely 3 possible additions in the form of Palentua, Dixie, and Sami; And Dixie actualy starred in one of the DKC games, and Sami is about equal to Andy in the Advance wars series

 

Oh and you technicly forgot Jigglypuff, who is assumably female... I think

I don't consider any of the Pokemon as male or female because they're never strictly defined. Presumably Jigglypuff is, but I don't count Jiggly because we don't know.

 

Yeah, we really do need new females. Palutena and Sami (to replace Snake; I think of Andy, Sami, and Max, Sami is the best choice) I think have a high chance, Dixie is about tied with K. Rool for me.

 

Only Dixie Kong has had her own game. Sami is one of the main three Advance Wars CO's in two separate games, but she still shares the role with Andy and Max.

[Diogenes]

Well, female Pikachu actually have a slightly differently shaped tail now, so going by that we know that Smash's Pikachu is male. Also I'd imagine it's pretty hard to argue that Smash's Lucario is female given the voice.

[-Robin-]

Jigglypuff has a 7/8 chance of being female, and it has a squeaky voice with a feminine tone to it in both English and Japanese, with the latter having a stronger feminine tone to it, so the community just goes along with it and refers to it as a female.

Ivysaur was referred to as female because Fushigisou has a female VA. As Charizard communicates only by growls and roars, it's just referred to as male, possibly due the 7/8 odds again, but for the male's favor. As Greninja's only known voice atm is its frog croak cry in XY, odds are it'll be referred to as male for the same reason.

Imagine if the game comes out and Gekkouga's got a female VA.

[damo]

I was referring to the concept of the "Zero Suit" as a whole, and how Samus is portrayed in Smash doesn't seem too severe.

 

You could argue that she's not as sexualized as Ivy, but a skintight suit, high heels, and a beauty mark? Considering she started out as a character that passed for male for the entire time playing the game, that's an extreme shift.  Even Lara Croft knows not to wear high heels (there's a scene in Tomb Raider Legend specifically addressing that she has to take off a pair because they limit her mobility, so we've now reached the point where, R.O.B. help us, Lara Craft is more sensible than Samus).  I'm not a big fan of "things could be worse" defenses.

 

 I've never seen Other M, though, so I didn't know how bad it actually was in Other M

 

Imagine a scene where a central character is faced with an agonizing choice: will he leave his brother to die, or will he let someone else risk their lives to save him?

 

You have control of the camera.  Where would you point it?

A. At the face of the guy deciding whether or not to leave his brother to die

B. At the face of the person volunteering to go do risky riscue work

C. Samus' breasts

 

...Other M was not a good game.

 

Oh and you technicly forgot Jigglypuff

 

I was talking about the current game, and Jigglypuff's unconfirmed.

 

As for the idea that Jigglypuff has to be female... Nermal. That's all I'm going to say.

 

 

Yeah, we really do need new females.

 

 

It's a pity Rare was taken over by Microsoft.  It's unlikely we'll ever see Joanna Dark again.  I know Perfect Dark Zero was a bit of a stinker, but she deserved another chance.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I've never seen Other M, though, so I didn't know how bad it actually was in Other M other than the fact I've heard people complaining about it non-stop.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13384263550I62094100&p=17

The article in there, done by a troper even, is one of the better ones elaborating on sexism in Other M. Hope that helps.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Imagine a scene where a central character is faced with an agonizing choice: will he leave his brother to die, or will he let someone else risk their lives to save him?

 

You have control of the camera.  Where would you point it?

A. At the face of the guy deciding whether or not to leave his brother to die

B. At the face of the person volunteering to go do risky riscue work

C. Samus' breasts

 

...Other M was not a good game.

I've only seen a few of the offensive scenes in Other M, but did they seriously do this? That would actually be hilarious, and I don't mean that in a good way.

[-Robin-]

I've only seen a few of the offensive scenes in Other M, but did they seriously do this? That would actually be hilarious, and I don't mean that in a good way.

@2:50

Looks like a combination of both A & B, actually.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I've only seen a few of the offensive scenes in Other M, but did they seriously do this? That would actually be hilarious, and I don't mean that in a good way.

 

There's a lot of subtle, stupid moments like that in Other M. A particular favorite of mine is that Samus's only real accomplishment in the game (seeing as her team's been slaughtered, the Deleter succeeds then unceremoniously dies before his identity is revealed, Ridley lives on undefeated by Samus, Adam bites it, the remaining scientists are arrested, the A.I. is destroyed, etc.) is that she's killed her way through a ship full of monsters... that was going to be blown up anyways, monsters included. It would be like the punchline to the game if it wasn't so sad.

[damo]

I've only seen a few of the offensive scenes in Other M, but did they seriously do this? That would actually be hilarious, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Ah, my bad.  Haven't played in ages (gosh, almost like I was avoiding it like the plague) and my memory... not so good (almost like I was repressing it). Someone brought up the scene again on another site and I misunderstood which part of her anatomy the camera pointlessly focused on while he was making his tough call.

 

You can't see his face, you can't see her face, but you can see... wow, she must work out.

 

Now THAT'S dramatic tension!

 

 

@2:50

Looks like a combination of both A & B, actually.

No, just A.  And not the A I was talking about before.  The A from T&A.

[JaidynReiman]

Ah, my bad.  Haven't played in ages (gosh, almost like I was avoiding it like the plague) and my memory... not so good (almost like I was repressing it). Someone brought up the scene again on another site and I misunderstood which part of her anatomy the camera pointlessly focused on while he was making his tough call.

 

You can't see his face, you can't see her face, but you can see... wow, she must work out.

 

Now THAT'S dramatic tension!

 

 

No, just A.  And not the A I was talking about before.  The A from T&A.

What the hell is up with Samus' waist? Make her skinny enough or anything?

 

Read up on that TV Tropes article about Other M. Didn't read the whole thing, but I get what its saying. I was never defending Samus' portrayal in Other M, I know its shit and they need to create a new Metroid game to fix the franchise's tarnished reputation after that game. Whenever I made comparisons to Samus' bikini in earlier games, I was referring specifically to the Zero Suit itself, not Samus' shitty sexist portrayal in Other M.

 

Yeah, the article helped me to clarify exactly what was wrong, but I already knew it was pretty damn bad. I still think the Zero Suit--when used correctly--is better than the bikini thing in the early games. I also don't inherently think heels ruin her character, but I can see the bad taste they leave in people's mouths by nodding back to the fact that she first had them in Other M.

 

 

Compared to Samus' waist in Other M, her Smash Bros. one looks WAY better. Although I do admit that Sakurai annoyingly put ZSS in a couple of suggestive poses that just weren't necessary.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

The whole issue with this is one I raised early on: It's not so much that Sakurai can't portray Samus well, it's that he's drawing from a bad source. You can only polish a turd so much, and Other M's baggage needs a mountain of polish just to look halfway decent.

[Tails spin]

I hope we get a Sonic Lost world stage for the 3 ds. Maybe tropical coast

[JaidynReiman]

The whole issue with this is one I raised early on: It's not so much that Sakurai can't portray Samus well, it's that he's drawing from a bad source. You can only polish a turd so much, and Other M's baggage needs a mountain of polish just to look halfway decent.

To be honest I think he's done a halfways decent job at least... Samus at least is tolerable in her body proportions now. She's not NEARLY so skinny as she was in Other M. So, its at least a bit of an improvement, and Sakurai tried to improve the "jet boots" at least...

[Adorkable]

Although it's obvious the Wii U will be receiving the superior version, I don't plan on re-purchasing the console just for this game, I'm sad to say. I have the 3DS XL, and Nintendo has done a fine job making me feel just as welcome on this version as the other. I hate to see that the 3DS version will not be getting the Sonic level from Lost World, but hopefully they will be able to make up for that!

[Blue Blood]

I hope we get a Sonic Lost world stage for the 3 ds. Maybe tropical coast

Don't worry, it's already been confirmed!

[StaticMania]

I'm guessing that's suppose to be funny?

[Blue Blood]

I'm guessing that's suppose to be funny?

Yes, it's a joke. Don't get your knickers in twist. Lost World looks like a Mario game.

If you'd rather a more serious answer, then I'll just say that Tropical Coast would be a poor choice for variety. It's already similar to another stage in the game, and Lost World is being represented in the Wii U version already. Surely something more unique from another title would be better?

[Salamander]

On the subject of Samus's design, I was reading a BBC News article earlier on past predictions of the future, and happened to notice an image which reminded me of this thread:

 

 

How we've progressed since 1964.

[Komodin]

Bringing this back more directly to Smash Bros. hijinks, we have a new Pic of the Day:

 

 

Pic of the day. Here's a special stage exclusive to the 3DS version, Balloon Fight!! The stage loops on the left and right sides so you can walk off one side and appear on the other.

 

Thoughts? I think it looks interesting enough.

[JAiRO]

Bringing this back more directly to Smash Bros. hijinks, we have a new Pic of the Day:

 

 

Thoughts? I think it looks interesting enough.

 

Balloon Fight was my favorite game as a little kid, and I loved the flipper. So much beautiful chaos.

 

I hope the looping stage thing won't make kills hard to come by.

[JezMM]

A looping stage sounds like hilarious fun.  I won't be able to resist always hitting people off to the side rather than upwards/downwards just to see how many laps I can make them fly around before I'm just hitting them too hard to not be sent above the upper threshold.  =D