Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[dabbido]

So Kirby pulls an Olimar when she copies Rosalina - he'll summon a Luma, and the Luma will instantly go for an attack, and disappear.

I'm curious on how Kirby copying Mii Fighters and Palutena will work. Since their neutral special can be changed, I'm guessing there will be coding for Kirby to recognize a different neutral special from the default and perform the new attack.

And I'm anxious to see Pac-Kirby in action. If Pac's neutral special is summoning a stream of Pac-Dots and going Classic to chase them, will Kirby also turn into a Pink Classic Pac and do the same?

 

Speaking of that since anyone can "customize" their special moves, do you think if you play normal battle/friend battle/friend battle online  Kirby would be able to copy Mario's fast fireball and Fire Orb for example? I'd be neat but not completely necessary I guess.

[w00tkins]

Watch the blue Pikmin closely

 

Pikmin can now pick up items! Diddy Kong's reign of slippery terror is over! Hopefully.

[Junko]

Speaking of that since anyone can "customize" their special moves, do you think if you play normal battle/friend battle/friend battle online  Kirby would be able to copy Mario's fast fireball and Fire Orb for example? I'd be neat but not completely necessary I guess.

Relatively sure, it was confirmed that customizable movesets are "With Friends" only.

[Jolt_TH]

With regards to the toggle for te Mii fighter, I can actually see the reasoning behind it.

Give it a toggle feature on the main character select screen so when you go online they do not have to rearrange the character screen, just remove the toggle feature

[SuperLink]

Speaking of customisable movesets, there seems to be an idea floating around that Palutena needs to have a custom moveset built before she can be used. Que? I'm not sure where this idea came from, but she's obviously going to have a default moveset, still? Even if her moves are very customisable, they wouldn't let you play as her in online Randoms if everyone's Palutena were going to have different movesets.

 

Custom movesets aren't allowed online, therefore Palutena must have a default moveset.

 

I care bc I want to main Palutena and custom movesets are not really my idea of a good time.  I'm fairly certain a default moveset will have been developed for her at the very least for the game modes where custom movesets aren't allowed? Thank u for your time.

[Blacklightning]

Palutena's moves are no more or less customizable than anyone else's as far as I can see - the only thing separating hers from anyone else's is that so far, she's the only one who has customization specials based off of subsets of usable items that actually existed in her own game (eg: Rocket Jump and Jump Glide as possible recovery moves).

[TrueBlue]

Speaking of customisable movesets, there seems to be an idea floating around that Palutena needs to have a custom moveset built before she can be used. Que? I'm not sure where this idea came from, but she's obviously going to have a default moveset, still? Even if her moves are very customisable, they wouldn't let you play as her in online Randoms if everyone's Palutena were going to have different movesets.

 

Custom movesets aren't allowed online, therefore Palutena must have a default moveset.

 

I care bc I want to main Palutena and custom movesets are not really my idea of a good time.  I'm fairly certain a default moveset will have been developed for her at the very least for the game modes where custom movesets aren't allowed? Thank u for your time.

 

It'd be strange to have one standard for Palutena (as in, creating a custom moveset) and one for the others, disregarding Mii of course. I wouldn't worry too much

[Gabz Girl]

Awww, Kirby's new hats are cute but I was expecting the Greninja hat to have a tongue wrapped around Kirby's head or something. XD I still think Little Mac Kirby is the best one just because of how angry he looks.

Btw I'm annoyed that they still haven't fixed the problem with Final Smashes; that there can be really weak ones, or ones that are so OP it's impossible to dodge them. Case in point, ZSS for being a bitch to avoid and being OP to the max.

[-Robin-]

They're probably concerned with making proper FSes first, and utility second. Since Zamus can't transform into Samus anymore, they needed a make a move that fit her, and the Gunship is honesty the best thing they could have done. And well, the Gunship is a powerful and has a high rate of fire in MP3, it just needed to get to the area first, which doesn't translate well in Smash anyway.

They'll probably nerf it before launch, but I still like the Gunship. Glad to see it graduated from Trophy only status to Final Smash.

[Junko]

Looks like this wasn't brought up.

 

The Nintendo GameCube controller adapter for Super Smash Bros. Wii U, which will grant the use of classic GameCube or WaveBird controllers with the fighter, has been priced at $19.99. Nintendo will also launch a Nintendo GameCube controller with Super Smash Bros. markings for $29.99. There will also be a Super Smash Bros. for Wii U bundle with one controller and one adapter for $99.99. All of these items will be available the same day Super Smash Bros. launches this holiday.

[SilentDoom]

Samus' Gunship as a Final Smash is pretty damn cool.  Kind of like Snake's FS.  Sure it could be toned down a tad, but the game is still in development.

 

Also, for anyone who wants to watch some slightly faster paced 1v1 matches between a couple of competitive players, CLASH Tournaments uploaded a playlist with some pretty good matches: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlIHVxA7UoL1b9OwOj4Ci13oWKu8KFb9N

 

Items are still on and it's still timed, but they're cool nonetheless.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

It was, but we were busy with other stuff

 

Planning to get the bundle cause I talked my friend into paying tax, and will also get a second GC remote so I have a spare for my total collection, and a pair for school. Getting it not for me, but to help keep my buddies from destroying my normal remotes from use XD, I'm using my pro controller myself

 

may end up grabbing one of the GC wired classic pros too, so I have a comfy controller, but still need to decide for sure

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Samus' Gunship as a Final Smash is pretty damn cool.  Kind of like Snake's FS.  Sure it could be toned down a tad, but the game is still in development.

 

Also, for anyone who wants to watch some slightly faster paced 1v1 matches between a couple of competitive players, CLASH Tournaments uploaded a playlist with some pretty good matches: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlIHVxA7UoL1b9OwOj4Ci13oWKu8KFb9N

 

Items are still on and it's still timed, but they're cool nonetheless.

 

This playlist has some more videos as well

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Wait a second you guys, I just thought of something that highly increases the chances of Wolf's return and the possibility of Ridley and K.Rool being playable:

Of every newcomer we have gotten so far not a single one is a villain(or even anti-hero)
Fact is every game we get at least 2 villains(or anti-hero at the least)

 

Sakurai does his best to keep the roster diverse and varied, and again tries to add a couple villains despite that being a tricky job, and I juts realized that's another reason why the Gematsu link doesn't sit well with me is that it has no villains. admittedly Heroes can be more popular than villains in  several cases, but there are a number of iconic or interesting Nintendo ones that aren't smash, and are shoe-ins for the roster

 

K.Rool still remains the most interesting and diverse of Dk's villains having multiple outfits, weapons and depictions to pull from, while Ridley remains the iconic bad guy of the Metroid series, and a roster candidate since Melee, and both have multiple appearances. K.Rool also has the advantage of DK being in a major renaissance, having a long enough history and relevance to earn 1 if not 2 new slots, and he's the iconic DK villain and the only one with multiple appearances

 

personally I wouldn't mind some of the antagonistic bounty hunters from the Metroid series, but outside of Weavel none of them are iconic enough, and Weavel just has the advantage of being a unique example of the space pirates

 

you guys do have to admit the possibility of there not being even one antagonistic/villain newcomer is extremely unlikely correct? And these are some of the most likely canidates left out of the series already represented in smash

[JaidynReiman]

Wait a second you guys, I just thought of something that highly increases the chances of Wolf's return and the possibility of Ridley and K.Rool being playable:

Of every newcomer we have gotten so far not a single one is a villain(or even anti-hero)

Fact is every game we get at least 2 villains(or anti-hero at the least)

 

Sakurai does his best to keep the roster diverse and varied, and again tries to add a couple villains despite that being a tricky job, and I juts realized that's another reason why the Gematsu link doesn't sit well with me is that it has no villains. admittedly Heroes can be more popular than villains in  several cases, but there are a number of iconic or interesting Nintendo ones that aren't smash, and are shoe-ins for the roster

 

K.Rool still remains the most interesting and diverse of Dk's villains having multiple outfits, weapons and depictions to pull from, while Ridley remains the iconic bad guy of the Metroid series, and a roster candidate since Melee, and both have multiple appearances. K.Rool also has the advantage of DK being in a major renaissance, having a long enough history and relevance to earn 1 if not 2 new slots, and he's the iconic DK villain and the only one with multiple appearances

 

personally I wouldn't mind some of the antagonistic bounty hunters from the Metroid series, but outside of Weavel none of them are iconic enough, and Weavel just has the advantage of being a unique example of the space pirates

 

you guys do have to admit the possibility of there not being even one antagonistic/villain newcomer is extremely unlikely correct? And these are some of the most likely canidates left out of the series already represented in smash

I don't bring up Ridley here because I get bashed for it, but every new Smash Bros. game has a new villain rep. So yeah, I think chances are high that we'll see a couple of villains, K. Rool included.

 

I think the Gematsu leak doesn't include villains because the leaker is in marketing. Its been widely speculated that the leaker knows about these characters because of marketing. The only characters he knows about are characters being used to promote both recent and upcoming games, which is very true.

 

For example, Chrom or Lucina could both be used to promote Fire Emblem X SMT. Palutena for Kid Icarus: Uprising, which was a recent game, but its still available to buy. I think Rhythm Heaven Fever is still available for Wii and we might even see the original GBA Rhythm Heaven released as well.

 

Shulk, naturally, can be used to promote Xenoblade. While he's not in X, he can still promote Xenoblade Chronicles X anyway. Villager promotes the recent Animal Crossing game, and the likely upcoming Animal Crossing Wii U game, while Wii Fit Trainer can promote Wii Fit U.

 

Pac-Man and Mega Man don't really promote anything, they're in for the fanservice and for being gaming icons. Granted, Pac-Man does have Ghostly Adventures coming up, but he's not in his Ghostly Adventures design (thank God) and isn't being used to promote that game either.

 

 

For a character like Isaac, he can't really be used well for promotion because the last Golden Sun game didn't sell well. K. Rool hasn't appeared in the recent DKC games, either, so he can't market those games. Dixie Kong might, but its questionable with Tropical Freeze so new. And Other M is widely reviled, plus no new Metroid games are in development at this time (or if they are, they're in very early development).

 

 

Anyway, just food for thought. I don't think Gematsu is all we have, but we'll see.

 

 

EDIT: Knew I missed someone. Little Mac is in to promote his fairly recent Punch-Out Wii game.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I don't see why everybody thinks Game & Watch is confirmed in the Pac-Man trailer. That's just a silhouette, it could be anyone!

[SuperLink]

For now I'm going to assume Gematsu is pm all we have because Gematsu + important vets fills out the roster to 45 and then some. As much as I'd like more, I'm not gonna get my hopes too high because I still just think expecting ~50 characters is like asking to have your hopes crushed.

 

We'll see though. Also if what you said about that leaker also saying there would be post-release is true, then that could be a thing.

[Red Cap]

One thing I've been thinking about after playing the game at Smash Fest... can Villager pocket Pikachu's Thunder? I mean, it's counted as a projectile in all the other SSB games (It can be reflected and G&W can absorb it with Oil Panic), so... maybe? Kinda seems broken if he could.

[Wraith]

I'm honestly really fucking impressed that the 3DS is holding as many characters as it is now. 45 is already insane. 50 or more is just unbelievable.. 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I'm honestly really fucking impressed that the 3DS is holding as many characters as it is now. 45 is already insane. 50 or more is just unbelievable.. 

Actualy, not that much it has a larger game memory than the gamecube. The number of characters isn't so much the special part, making them unique dynamic, and balanced is the challenge, fact is Sakurai will add as many as he wants, and he has had the number of characters, and who planned from the beginning, and they were determined nearly 2-3 years ago so any recent releases aren't going to have too much bearing on that selection 

 

Fact is that if Dixie was chosen to add to Smash, it would be due to her merits in the past not Tropical Freeze, and K.Rool would have been decided due to his history to DK

Fact is that while I hold no aspirations to what the total can be, and if there were 45, I wouldn't be disappointed, however Sakurai is more than capable of reaching 50, and I would not be surprised by that either since Smash has had a relatively constant rate of expansion, and is planned far better than most games

 

You guys aren't listening to my argument because you are placing artificial limitations on roster size, in the same way people place limitations on what characters are 'viable' for smash

 

Fact is we are getting at least one more if not more, and whether that is because the Gematsu leak is false, or because the roster is bigger than what you are limiting to, we will have to wait and see

 

So on another note, regarding my previous argument, why don't we think positively about what villains could be possible for smash

[LATER BUDDY]

Pretty sure it's already been thought up, but I reaaaally hope there's an event (assuming they return) based around Pac-Man and Kirby, called something along the line of them being eating champions lmao (bonus if it's revolved around 98052 party balls filled with the food items)

[Jolt_TH]

That may be true, but expecting over 50 is quite frankly silly. The 3DS cartridges may be bigger than a GC minidisk but dont forget that this iteration of Smash also has so much more than Melee, Smash Run, classic smash, probably some sort of adventure mode, not to mention all the online coding too.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Brawl took up roughly 8gb, and half of that was the horribly compressed Subspace Emissary cutscenes.

 

Also I feel like if they were gonna include Dixie they would have revealed her in February when she was at the front of everybody's minds and would have generated much more hype. At the same time I don't see them not giving DK a third rep when it's like their fourth best-selling franchise, all while giving comparatively niche series like Fire Emblem, Star Fox and even Kirby far more love. But the lack of love DK has gotten in the Smash series as a whole has me worried that that will be the case and it'll continue to have two reps.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Sigh, facepalm, can we just try to get to some constructive conversation here, the fact is we don't know what the roster size is, but there is no limit in reality, though there are practical limits that are kinda obvious, the fact is again, we have no idea how many characters going to be in, Nintendo is the master of optimization, and Sakurai had this planned for the start, also Characters are astronomicly smaller than stages and modes, so don't go say that all of those are going to take up the cartridge either, the main thing clogging up Brawl's disk's was the cutscenes, modes are shared assets and a lot of code, and the 3DS cartridge has as much space as Brawl's disk had if not more

 

So can we please go to some constructive conversation, the entire point of my original post is that the gematsu link Is obviously not all inclusive, and that we still have no idea about what new villainous newcomers we are getting, however we are more likely than not getting some, though some may be in the legacy department

 

now I need to go so some hw, see you guys later

 

 

Wolfy, on 14 Jun 2014 - 3:34 PM, said:Pretty sure it's already been thought up, but I reaaaally hope there's an event (assuming they return) based around Pac-Man and Kirby, called something along the line of them being eating champions lmao (bonus if it's revolved around 98052 party balls filled with the food items)

 You forgot Dedede, we need a gourmet race 2!

[SuperLink]

Fact is that if Dixie was chosen to add to Smash, it would be due to her merits in the past not Tropical Freeze, and K.Rool would have been decided due to his history to DK

Fact is that while I hold no aspirations to what the total can be, and if there were 45, I wouldn't be disappointed, however Sakurai is more than capable of reaching 50, and I would not be surprised by that either since Smash has had a relatively constant rate of expansion, and is planned far better than most games

 

You guys aren't listening to my argument because you are placing artificial limitations on roster size, in the same way people place limitations on what characters are 'viable' for smash

"Fact is" Smash is planned alongside other games to promote them. SSB4 started development ~2 years ago, and Sakurai has been privy to all sorts of information, not just the entire roster of Pokémon XY but information on Sonic Lost World (evidenced by the completed Windy Hill stage), long before they came out. Dixie Kong could easily have been planned to promote Tropical Freeze if that were the case, because Sakurai quite obviously knows about a lot of things that no one outside Nintendo knew a thing about 2 years ago.

 

"Fact is" Smash doesn't /always/ expand that much and people who expected a big expansion from Melee to Brawl well.. 90% of people expected 40-45 characters in Brawl, and they got 35/38. Most people were extremely disappointed, even angry at Sakurai, because their expectations for how "easy" they, the general public with no development experience, thought fighting game development was, was far greater than reality.

 

Limitations are not "artificial", it's called keeping your expectations in check and realising that game development is not a magic spell where you say "ok this will happen" and then magically it happens. You need time, and money, so much time and money. Those limitations are the reality Sakurai faces. Sakurai can plan out an idea of what he wants to do with the roster before development, and like we saw with Brawl many of those planned characters may not make it in at all in the end (Mewtwo and others), some characters might have just barely made it in before launch (Lucario). Saying they have an idea for a roster planned out before development doesn't mean they'll put them all in, it means they've narrowed down the creative process for focused development rather than having ideas thrown at them in the middle of development.

 

The reason I don't always listen to your arguments is because you are thinking in terms of "if Sakurai wrote this down on a piece of paper and said he would like to do it it'd definitely happen" and not in terms of "Sakurai will only do what he can do with his time and money. There is no such thing as an "artificial limitation" on something by which the final product is largely dictated by various "limitations". System power, cartridge size, time, money, censorship, these are all very real limitations that game developers have to deal with on a daily basis..

 

You also keep saying Nintendo are far better with planning than other companies, but what? Melee was developed in a hurry in a ~year with tons of cut content, Brawl was delayed and even then had a fair few cut characters. Smash Bros. absolutely does not have a history rich with 100% accurate long-term planning. We won't know if this time is different until the game is out.

 

also Characters are astronomicly smaller than stages and modes

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. You have no idea how much work goes into creating fighting game characters and how expensive they are.

 

 

 

 

That's how much work and money needs to go into one already partially finished character from an indie game (Skullgirls, their Indiegogo campaign was a fascinating time for everyone who thought they knew how cheap game development was). That's the fraction of the price and work each Smash character might take in comparison. These figures are corroborated by many developers and many developers have also remarked on how these figures are cheaper than the kind of work they're used to.

 

It's true that we don't know how big the roster is going to be, we have no idea, but I'm saying keep your expectations in check. When Brawl came out and its roster size was revealed, a ridiculous amount of people were angry and acted self-entitled and pretended they understood game development better than Sakurai. Nah.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that you don't seem to appreciate how much work goes into a game when it's being made (supposedly) from scratch, especially since you said characters are smaller than stages or modes. Brawl was made in ~2 years, SSB4 is two games across two systems, one of which is far more expensive to develop for that the Wii was. Sakurai isn't such a magical man that he can pull 15 extra characters out of thin air in an extra half a year. Yeah, 50 characters is possible, but no, I don't think it's likely unless the team working on SSB4 is considerably bigger than Brawl's was (and Brawl had collaborators from many other development teams), and I think I've made it perfectly clear why multiple times.