Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Wraith]

Actualy, not that much it has a larger game memory than the gamecube. The number of characters isn't so much the special part, making them unique dynamic, and balanced is the challenge, fact is Sakurai will add as many as he wants, and he has had the number of characters, and who planned from the beginning, and they were determined nearly 2-3 years ago so any recent releases aren't going to have too much bearing on that selection 

 

Fact is that if Dixie was chosen to add to Smash, it would be due to her merits in the past not Tropical Freeze, and K.Rool would have been decided due to his history to DK

 

Greninja was taken from concept sketches from before Pokemon XY was even in full development, and Tropical Freeze had been in development for a while Smash 4 had even started. If anything has influence on Donkey Kong's presence this time around, it would primarily be Returns and Tropical Freeze. If they do add a new DK rep, I'd bet on it being Dixie. The series has been going out of it's way to ignore K Rool for a while. He doesn't have a constant presence in his series like Ridley, Ganondorf, Bowser, and King Dedede do. Not to mention he's not nearly as popular as any of the villains I listed. 

 

Dixie also has the advantage of being planned since Brawl if I remember correctly.

 

Maybe I'm biased because I'm not fond of K Rool or the Kremlings at all, but...yeah, that's my two cents.

[Xenos]

Got to try both versions today. Two matches on 3DS and one on Wii U.

 

Now I can't really give full impressions on the Wii U version because I used the most awful controller I've ever felt the Wii U Pro Controller. Now under most cases this controller is okay, but it's definitely not a controller I would consider using for Smash, it's just not enjoyable to me. It ended up souring my experiences with the Wii U version and I couldn't really get a feel for the mechanics.

 

The 3DS version on the other hand was fantastic to play, it ran smoothly and the 60fps really lends itself well. Despite it being on 3DS the graphics were crisp and clean, aside from a few things. The controls are a bit awkward, but it felt a lot better than the Wii U Pro Controller. My impressions of Mario and Marth on the 3DS version are good for a first time too.

 

With Mario's physical attacks, you can really feel the crunch and impact when an attack hits, and it feels extremely satisfying. Mario himself was very akin to a mixture of Brawl and Project M, and he felt really comfy to play with. Had a blast playing as him, and even won my match.

 

Marth felt a little more unfamiliar in comparison. (What do you mean I have to use a charged forward smash?) His attacks are a little more sluggish, he kind of reminds me of a 64-ish kind of Marth, with slow sword swipes that cover a wide area. His attacks seem to focus more on how wide they are instead of having a lot of reach, his down air seems noticeably slower and shorter now, so I'm not even sure if Ken Combos are a possibility currently, but he can combo very well into his up tilt and aerials fair enough, so I'm sure if I tried Ken Combos themselves would work fine.

 

Overall the game is shaping up great, and it eased some of the fears I had at first.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Can I just say, the entirety of what I was originally pointing out is that no new villain/antagonistic characters have been shown OR mentioned in the Gematsu leak which seems extremely unusual as we normally get 2 or more new villains each game to provide diversity to the roster

 

I am not going to argue of the size of the roster, however I do want to say that if we do not get at least one if not two new villains that would be extremely odd, and that it is unlikely that we will lose any antagonistic characters

 

 

Though I do want to point out we have no idea about the scale in which Bandai-Namco is helping, however its enough for development to be in their building, and they do have a number of teams who are expert developers on fighting games

 

And, I think an interesting discussion point would be what villains from represented franchises would be likely, or if there are any from a non-represented francise that would be possible

[kalion]

Speaking of customisable movesets, there seems to be an idea floating around that Palutena needs to have a custom moveset built before she can be used. Que? I'm not sure where this idea came from, but she's obviously going to have a default moveset, still? Even if her moves are very customisable, they wouldn't let you play as her in online Randoms if everyone's Palutena were going to have different movesets.

 

Custom movesets aren't allowed online, therefore Palutena must have a default moveset.

 

I care bc I want to main Palutena and custom movesets are not really my idea of a good time.  I'm fairly certain a default moveset will have been developed for her at the very least for the game modes where custom movesets aren't allowed? Thank u for your time.

 

Sakurai said that Palutena AND Mii Fighters were'nt allowed online against anyone at E3. This is probably where this theory stems from.../=

[SuperLink]

I agree that there's demand for more villains and hopefully Sakurai recognises that, whether or not it means anything this time, or whether or not Bamco helping with development means there will be more characters, remains to be seen. Namco developed one of the biggest fighting game rosters ever in TTT2, but even that game was in development for soooo long before it launched.

 

Sakurai said that Palutena AND Mii Fighters were'nt allowed online against anyone at E3. This is probably where this theory stems from.../=

I don't recall Sakurai ever saying that Palutena wasn't allowed to fight online? If that's true I guess I won't be maining her afterall. x-x

[Solkia]

Even in organized matches between friends?

[Komodin]

Sakurai said that Palutena AND Mii Fighters were'nt allowed online against anyone at E3. This is probably where this theory stems from.../=

 

Hm, that's a tad odd. I can understand the Mii Fighters, but why Palutena? Does her moveset really differ that significantly by the customization feature?

[Solly]

Sakurai said that Palutena AND Mii Fighters were'nt allowed online against anyone at E3. This is probably where this theory stems from.../=

Can you provide a source for this? I know you can't use Mii Fighters, but Palutena? 

 

Even in organized matches between friends?

Miis are usable against friends. Not in games with randoms, though.

[Wraith]

Honestly, Nintendo characters don't tend to have very large "Rouge's galleries" to begin with. All of the "Iconic" villains have basically been added aside from maybe Ridley. 

[Solkia]

Honestly I can't understand why Mii Fighters would be restricted either.

[SuperLink]

Even in organized matches between friends?

Miis can be used with friends so I doubt it.

 

Anyway, check out this page http://www.smashbros.com/us/howto/entry2.html

 

Each fighter possesses four special attacks; standard special, side special, up special, and down special. Each of these can be customized, however, so there are three variations for each direction. This means there are two classifications for special attacks: basic and custom.

However, Mii Fighters and Palutena don't have spin-off variations, but rather completely unique types of attacks.

 

This doesn't imply that Mii and Palutena have to use custom movesets, it implies that:

• Most characters in the game's custom moves involve slightly changing their special move, i.e. making a blaster more powerful or faster, it's still a blaster
• Mii and Palutena however can change to use totally different attacks, rather than variations. That's all this implies to me.

It then says that you can't use custom moves with randoms. This image also appears in the game options;

 

 

Customisations: "Off"

 

If Customisations can be universally turned off, that means that even Palutena and Mii must have default movesets, i.e. "basic" as opposed to custom like Sakurai said. Off is probably the default option, and I doubt Palutena and Mii are missing from the base game. They must be fully playable even while customisations are off, which probably means that Palutena is playable online with Randoms. I think.

 

This page also singles out Miis.

 

You won’t be able to use Mii Fighters when you fight With Anyone online, but the plan is to enable this feature With Friends online.

So Palutena is probably fine.

 

As for why Miis aren't allowed in randoms, it might be that the game would require additional time to render each Mii's specific costume and transfer it to random consoles, whereas with friends they might be pre-loaded or something. Or it could be something as simple as Sakurai not wanting randoms to be overcrowded with Miis, or perhaps even censorship if people purposefully use offensive faces or stuff.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Honestly, Nintendo characters don't tend to have very large "Rouge's galleries" to begin with. All of the "Iconic" villains have basically been added aside from maybe Ridley. 

I would still argue that K.Rool would be one, yes he hasn't been in the limelight for a while, however he has shown up within the decade a couple time via spin-offs, and his absence from DKCR&TF could be argued as Retro wanting to take their own direction, I mean Mother Brain and Kraid didn't show up in any of the prime games, or technically either Zero Mission or Super Metroid if you don't count a remake, and that doesn't make them any less iconic, Kraid got a stage in melee, and Mother brain is now an assist trophy. I would argue that he also still more iconic than either villain in the new DKC games, especially since they have both been one offs

 

Now, I'm not saying he is in for sure, but he is one of the few Nintendo Villains left who were recurring, and relatively iconic villain when it comes to DK and Nintendo. if I had to guess part of his shunning is due to some bad memories with Rare, however I doubt that would effect Sakurai who cares a tad more about Nintendo's history in general as opposed to Miyamoto who took it more personally since he still considers DK his, since he created it in the first place, and also believes in trying new things which is why he encouraged Retro to make new enemies. The fact is however that K.Rool still holds the right of iconic retro DK villain, and that's why he still has a chance, as he was in 3 of the 5 DKC games(and DK64), and most of the main DK spinoffs to some extent(and the Tv show)

 

Hmmm, I'll admit there aren't too many other iconic ones that would work in smash, mainly there are couple of minor Mario ones(Wart, Tatanga), but only other one would fall into retro comeback, and that would be Zoda from Star Tropics(and its sequel Zoda's revenge) who is a shape shifting alien who has some interesting possibilities, but extremely unlikely

 

And of course there is Ridley, who the iconic Metroid villain, Kraid would work as iconic but he is REALLY too big unless you used Mini-Kraid. there are several bounty hunters from well hunters and prime 3 who would be extremely unique, and have cool movesets and appearances, but none of them are considered 'iconic'

 

Oh you could have an evolved form of Metroid, one of those right below queen, but that's rather unlikely

 

and that's all I can think of really, I imagine FE, advance wars or Golden Sun might have some candidates, but I don't know enough about them to bring any forward

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Greninja was taken from concept sketches from before Pokemon XY was even in full development, and Tropical Freeze had been in development for a while Smash 4 had even started. If anything has influence on Donkey Kong's presence this time around, it would primarily be Returns and Tropical Freeze. If they do add a new DK rep, I'd bet on it being Dixie. The series has been going out of it's way to ignore K Rool for a while. He doesn't have a constant presence in his series like Ridley, Ganondorf, Bowser, and King Dedede do. Not to mention he's not nearly as popular as any of the villains I listed. 

 

Dixie also has the advantage of being planned since Brawl if I remember correctly.

 

Maybe I'm biased because I'm not fond of K Rool or the Kremlings at all, but...yeah, that's my two cents.

K. Rool is one of the most heavily requested characters in the game. He might be less popular than the villains you listed, but he's still up there.

 

Also Dixie was planned to be in some sort of duo with Diddy, not as a stand-alone character. In fact when Sakurai ran a poll on which characters people wanted in a game, he only included a "Diddy + Dixie" option with no option for Dixie herself, while Diddy and K. Rool were individual choices. So at the very least K. Rool was considered far more important than Dixie pre-Brawl. Also note that Greninja wasn't actually planned for the roster back when it was finalized, but was just just reserved a spot as "X and Y Pokémon" until they picked him later on, and that Game Freak are fairly controlling over how Pokémon is represented in the games. We don't know if Sakurai did know about Tropical Freeze. We do know, however, that the Kremlings are in Smash Run while the Snowmads aren't, despite the Kremlings not having appeared in a game in like five years, and not having appeared in a notable game in even longer. So either Sakurai didn't know about Tropical Freeze during the development in the game, or did know about it and opted to go for the Kremlings over the Snowmads anyway because he considered them more important. And considering he still added the Tikis despite them not having the relevance of the Snowmads nor the same history with the DK series that the Kremlings do, I think it's way more likely that Sakurai just didn't know Tropical Freeze was a thing.

 

Of course it's also possible that Tropical Freeze was still in its infancy and the enemies of the game weren't set in stone yet, so they just told Sakurai "Dixie is going to be in the next DK game and you should totally add her to Smash Bros."

 

In regards to Palutena and Miis, Miis aren't banned from online because of custom movesets, they're banned because Nintendo doesn't want a bunch of Hitlers running around in online mode.

[Marcello]

As a villain, there's still Hades.and medusa, I guess..I don't think he'll get in, but I'd still love to see him.

 

 

Also note that Greninja wasn't actually planned for the roster back when it was finalized, but was just just reserved a spot as "X and Y Pokémon" until they picked him later on,

 

How do you know that?

[SuperLink]

Hades is the villain I'd love to see most, but Kid Icarus isn't a big enough series to get 3 reps yet. Maybe for DLC? If DLC is happening. It might not.

[JaidynReiman]

Honestly, Nintendo characters don't tend to have very large "Rouge's galleries" to begin with. All of the "Iconic" villains have basically been added aside from maybe Ridley. 

And K. Rool. Don't care if he hasn't appeared "recently," until the DKCR games he was ALWAYS the DKC main antagonist, and even appeared in a Mario spinoff and in almost every single DK spinoff. K. Rool is just as iconic of a villain as Ridley (especially since Ridley is never the main antagonist, but usual the dragon--quite literally).

 

 

As a villain, there's still Hades.and medusa, I guess..I don't think he'll get in, but I'd still love to see him.

 

 

How do you know that?

Hades/Medusa aren't iconic, though. Medusa appeared in two games, Hades one. K. Rool has a long history of being the DK main antagonist throughout numerous games and even several spinoffs. There's a huge difference.

 

As for the other note, Greninja was planned to be in well before the release of X/Y, as confirmed in the Smash Bros. roundtable event. Before he was included they knew they wanted a Pokemon from X/Y, just weren't sure which one until they saw the concept art of Greninja. (That said it still calls into question why the leaker didn't know who the Pokemon from X/Y was when he was planned out so early in development.)

[Blitz 'n Burst]

As a villain, there's still Hades.and medusa, I guess..I don't think he'll get in, but I'd still love to see him.

 

 

How do you know that?

Huh. I remember reading that specifically somewhere, but I can't seem to find it and all other (reliable) accounts are somewhat vague. It could have just been some sort of word-of-mouth thing and stuff being taken out of context I guess.

 

I don't really think K. Rool is a shoo-in by any means, despite maybe coming off that way in my posts. But he's certainly more important than some people make him out to be. I might be partly biased towards him and teh Kremlings, but I can honestly say that it's at least 50/50 between him and Dixie. Or possibly both of them, who knows?

[Wraith]

K. Rool is one of the most heavily requested characters in the game. He might be less popular than the villains you listed, but he's still up there.

 

Also Dixie was planned to be in some sort of duo with Diddy, not as a stand-alone character. In fact when Sakurai ran a poll on which characters people wanted in a game, he only included a "Diddy + Dixie" option with no option for Dixie herself, while Diddy and K. Rool were individual choices. So at the very least K. Rool was considered far more important than Dixie pre-Brawl. Also note that Greninja wasn't actually planned for the roster back when it was finalized, but was just just reserved a spot as "X and Y Pokémon" until they picked him later on, and that Game Freak are fairly controlling over how Pokémon is represented in the games. We don't know if Sakurai did know about Tropical Freeze. We do know, however, that the Kremlings are in Smash Run while the Snowmads aren't, despite the Kremlings not having appeared in a game in like five years, and not having appeared in a notable game in even longer. So either Sakurai didn't know about Tropical Freeze during the development in the game, or did know about it and opted to go for the Kremlings over the Snowmads anyway because he considered them more important. And considering he still added the Tikis despite them not having the relevance of the Snowmads nor the same history with the DK series that the Kremlings do, I think it's way more likely that Sakurai just didn't know Tropical Freeze was a thing.

 

Of course it's also possible that Tropical Freeze was still in its infancy and the enemies of the game weren't set in stone yet, so they just told Sakurai "Dixie is going to be in the next DK game and you should totally add her to Smash Bros."

 

Kremlings and Tikis being in Smash Run means it could go either way, huh?

 

Well, Donkey Kong as become a pretty big franchise in recent years(Returns outsold the entire Metroid Prime series on it's own, and Tropical Freeze did decent enough considering the harsh circumstances it had to deal with.) , so four reps (Donkey, Diddy, Dixe, and K Rool) would be fair enough, I think. 

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I wouldn't mind both Dixie and K. Rool as newcomers. Just not a 5th DK character, because that's WAY too many.

(I was being sarcastic on that last part, Miiverse is complaining 5 is too many reps, which doesn't make any sense to me)

I'd also like to see Takamaru and Lip, if possible. Other than that, I've got everyone I want. Besides Ridley but I don't talk about that.

[JaidynReiman]

See, that's the problem I have. The problem I have isn't that the roster isn't like 57-60 characters or whatever, the problem is that so many franchise seem to be getting prioritized over Donkey Kong, which is a much bigger franchise and had a much bigger comeback than the likes of both Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem. As much as I love Fire Emblem (its sad that Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance, my favorite games in the series, sold so poorly), Awakening wasn't NEARLY as successfully as Donkey Kong Country Returns.

 

And although Tropical Freeze is still lacking, it is at 500k sales already four months out. In two years time it'll easily top a million.

 

 

That's why I think DK is very likely to get a third rep in this game. Potentially four (though that's questionable), but frankly, if DK were to reach four reps (the other two being K. Rool and Dixie Kong), that would cover the entire DK "main" cast.

 

So, yeah, that's just what I'm thinking right now. Its not about roster size for me. As far as size goes, its looking very good.

[SuperLink]

I think potentially the reason for that is that arguably DK reps are Mario reps. DK and Mario span off of one another and DK characters often appear in Mario games but never vice versa (you never get Mario characters in DK games, Mario is the central hub and DK is still an offshoot). It might not be that 2 DK reps is too little, but that 10+ Mario-universe reps is too much. Ofc this is all arguable, but I can see why Sakurai might want to prioritise the expansion of other characters' universes that are completely separate and unique to Mario's over DK.

 

..I can see why DK fans might be annoyed by that kinda thinking though. Esp since mainseries Mario continues to get new reps.

[Wraith]

I think Donkey Kong is just caught in this sort of weird grey area between being a spinoff and being it's own thing. It's not like Yoshi and Wario which are pretty clearly spinoffs and use a lot of Mario elements. It has a big cast of characters and gameplay elements to call it's own, but it's still vaguely tied to Mario.  It getting expanded upon to the extent of Zelda by having 4-5 reps would be kinda questionable. 

[Blitz 'n Burst]

The difference between Donkey Kong and Wario is that the Donkey Kong Country games managed to do well enough to set themselves apart from the Mario series. Wario and Yoshi are still mostly known as Mario characters, and most of their own games' success comes from their recognition as Mario characters.

I also believe Diddy's absence from MK8 is an attempt to distwnce the two franchises

[JaidynReiman]

The difference between Donkey Kong and Wario is that the Donkey Kong Country games managed to do well enough to set themselves apart from the Mario series. Wario and Yoshi are still mostly known as Mario characters, and most of their own games' success comes from their recognition as Mario characters.

I also believe Diddy's absence from MK8 is an attempt to distwnce the two franchises

It could be. Dunno. DK is big enough and has enough characters to get its own spinoffs for sure.

[Wraith]

DK DOES have several of his own spinoffs. None of them are very successful, but they do exist. Barrel Blast was even an attempt at a Donkey Kong only racer.