Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Marcello]

I'm going to cut right to the chase, because, with all due respect, your current argument changed from "Wario doesn't have enough to make him different" to "Wario sucks too much to be in Smash because XYZ," which, while an argument perhaps worth having on its own, isn't really the one I came to discuss.

 

Who said this?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Who said this?

 

Wario has demand because of his games? His games are niche, they're not successful and have never sold majorly, most people only know him because of Mario.

[WarioBone]

Well, I'm convinced:  I'm getting old and jaded.

 

I find SSB4's roster to be absolute fucking garbage.  Everyone around me is still screaming their heads off about it, but I keep looking and I can't see the excitement.  I can't see the fun.  All I see are a bunch of new characters I couldn't give less of a shit about in a game that I've already played a million times over.

 

I guess I just need to get my walker and start listening to the Beach Boys or something. -sigh-

[Marcello]

 

So, not SuperLink?

 

Where does he actually say Wario sucks and shouldn't be in? That post merely says Wario's popularity comes from Mario games and not his own.

 

In fact, he has already said that he'd rather have Wario than Mewtwo.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

If Wario were just a spin-off character who had no personality or identity beyond "evil yellow Mario" he would never have been included in Brawl, regardless of how popular he was, because he would bring nothing to the table. If Wario had never appeared in a Mario game at all and was just introduced as "a fat guy who makes video games," his games would have been nowhere near popular enough for Wario to reach "Nintendo all-star" status. Both of these roles contributed to his inclusion in Brawl.

 

That's my interpretation, at least. Maybe his games would still acquire a relatively small cult following and he would end up being the Ness of Melee/Brawl/Smash 4. Or he'd be the character that nobody could have saw coming a mile away except the one guy who leaked a list of newcomers to the internet which nobody believed at first but eventually started gaining more credibility as time went on.

[SuperLink]

I'm going to cut right to the chase, because, with all due respect, your current argument changed from "Wario doesn't have enough to make him different" to "Wario sucks too much to be in Smash because XYZ," which, while an argument perhaps worth having on its own, isn't really the one I came to discuss.

 

Comrade, I honestly don't care about Pokémon. I don't care if more Pokémon get in, I don't care if this is all there is. It doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me is your attempt to devalue a host of other series for the sake of seeing whichever Pokémon added to the roster, which, as discussed before, treads into borderline insulting territory. Nothing worthwhile has come from this except that you've unsettled or angered a handful a people and honestly wasted my time. If all you mean to say is "I would like it if more Pokémon are in," just say that and spare us all the pages-long debate that goes nowhere and upsets people for no reason. For heaven's sake, comrade.

..What? What? When did I ever say Wario sucked? When did I ever try to devalue him? I didn't?? I compared him to Pokémon because if Mario can get 7+ characters why can't Pokémon? I love Wario, and like I said:

 

I adore Wario and I'd trade Mewtwo for Wario anyday. That's not the argument I or anyone is making.

 

You are misreading me completely. All along, my argument has been "rep limit does not exist". That's why I brought up Wario and Yoshi. That's it. I love Wario and Yoshi, If anything, what's insulting is the fans making up rules for Sakurai's game that don't exist. So many people a few pages ago were spouting the "rep limit" as if it were fact. My entire argument was based off disproving that such a thing even exists. My argument was based on the fact that Pokémon could very well have more reps because it's so majorly successful, just like Mario and its many reps, it had nothing to do with dragging Mario down.

 

Also???

Wario has demand because of his games? His games are niche, they're not successful and have never sold majorly, most people only know him because of Mario.

How is saying a game isn't successful offensive? We live in an age of gaming where 9/10 sublime games are far less successful than they deserve to be, your icon is Amaterasu, the protagonist of one of my favourite games of all time, the game was niche, it was not successful, it didn't sell majorly, most people only know her through Marvel 3. That is not "offensive", that's me saying that characters are loved for reason besides demand or popularity. Wario's games aren't amazingly successful but that doesn't mean he's not loved or doesn't deserve to be?

 

The "rep limit" thing is always brought up with regards to Pokémon but never anything else, it was brought up here as an "excuse" to want less than 6 Pokémon reps. If you don't want Pokémon reps, fine, but don't act like there's a basis in fact for Pokémon having less reps when there isn't.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Well, I'm convinced:  I'm getting old and jaded.

 

I find SSB4's roster to be absolute fucking garbage.  Everyone around me is still screaming their heads off about it, but I keep looking and I can't see the excitement.  I can't see the fun.  All I see are a bunch of new characters I couldn't give less of a shit about in a game that I've already played a million times over.

 

I guess I just need to get my walker and start listening to the Beach Boys or something. -sigh-

 

Technically Palutena is an older character. She just looks different now. And Little Mac is old.

 

Unless you mean "new" as in newcomer, not caring what year they were created in. XP

 

Out of curiosity, what characters would you rather have?

[JaidynReiman]

Technically Palutena is an older character. She just looks different now. And Little Mac is old.

 

Unless you mean "new" as in newcomer, not caring what year they were created in. XP

 

Out of curiosity, what characters would you rather have?

I think all he's saying is that they're new to SMASH BROS. Which they obviously are. Does it matter how "new" the characters are in general? They're all new to Smash Bros., and I kinda agree, the only character I'm REALLY excited for was Mega Man. I did like Little Mac and I felt he deserved to be playable, but he's not a character that excites me all that much. None of the projected newcomers (due to Gematsu) get me all that excited either.

 

EDIT: I'm still excited for the game, but the current set of Newcomers don't get me excited all that much. The character reveal I was most excited for was Ike RETURNING, rather than any single Newcomer. And that's kinda sad really.

[Wraith]

Well, I'm convinced:  I'm getting old and jaded.

 

I find SSB4's roster to be absolute fucking garbage.  Everyone around me is still screaming their heads off about it, but I keep looking and I can't see the excitement.  I can't see the fun.  All I see are a bunch of new characters I couldn't give less of a shit about in a game that I've already played a million times over.

 

I guess I just need to get my walker and start listening to the Beach Boys or something. -sigh-

 

Honestly, the newcomer lineup isn't much to look at compared to what we had in Melee and Brawl before it, so I can understand disappointment there. That's mostly because Smash did a good job covering all the bases last time though, so it's going to be less exciting just because they have less to work with. 

 

The reason I'm excited about the Newcomers mostly has to do with how they play. Most of them look like they're bringing a unique playstyle to the table.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I think all he's saying is that they're new to SMASH BROS. Which they obviously are. Does it matter how "new" the characters are in general? They're all new to Smash Bros., and I kinda agree, the only character I'm REALLY excited for was Mega Man. I did like Little Mac and I felt he deserved to be playable, but he's not a character that excites me all that much. None of the projected newcomers (due to Gematsu) get me all that excited either.

 

EDIT: I'm still excited for the game, but the current set of Newcomers don't get me excited all that much. The character reveal I was most excited for was Ike RETURNING, rather than any single Newcomer. And that's kinda sad really.

 

That's what I thought he meant, but I wanted to make sure.

 

I personally love all the newcomers, Greninja and Villager were really fun to play as. And to be honest, I can't think of any non-third party characters I REALLY want (not just an "oh, that guy would be cool" kind of thing, like K. Rool).

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

..What? What? When did I ever say Wario sucked? When did I ever try to devalue him? I didn't?? I compared him to Pokémon because if Mario can get 7+ characters why can't Pokémon? I love Wario, and like I said-

 

The first was an off-hand comment, the second we've been debating for literally pages now. I'll apologize for the first, but if you honestly don't understand the second then you've not been reading my posts.

 

At this point, I'm just going to bow out of this debate, because it's clear that it isn't going anywhere and my posting is only prolonging that.

 

Ugh.

[Marcello]

I'm pretty happy with the character roster so far. Though, I do wish Toon Link was gone or at least replaced by Young Link.

 

The level selection has me a bit disappointed so far. It's not horrible or anything, but there some where I'd have wished for something else to represent the series. Like Zelda. Spirit Train makes sense (I have a different complaint for that, but I'll get to that in a moment), but Gerudo Valley, while interesting (At least since Koume and Tate where shown off), I don't see it as a handheld representation. OOT may be on the 3DS, but I still consider a console game. I'd have loved something from Link's Awakening or either Oracles. Fighting around the Wind Fish Egg or on Ambi's Tower or in front of the Maku Tree would've all been cool.

 

My other complaint is that they're just taking graphics from the original games for the most part. I always love seeing old levels brought back in new paint. Melee for the most part was just that. I think we've only seen a few do that in 4 so far. All I can think of are Wily's Castle, Fire Emblem Arena and Kalos Pokémon League.

[SuperLink]

I understand, I just don't agree. I know the Mario spinoffs aren't exactly the same as Pokémon having more reps, but Pokémon is so popular that I just don't see it as a problem and it's definitely not something that Sakurai would actively limit.

 

Besides like I said before, almost no one here would be against Zelda having another rep, the grand majority of you, myself included, wanted a new Zelda character, which would give Zelda 6 reps. If you don't think Pokémon should have another rep, that's fine, but pulling in an imaginary "rep limit" rule is what I have a problem with. I brought up the Mario spinoffs as part of the proof that no rep limit exists, but there are plenty of other factors pointing to that too that I probably should have focused on rather than getting heated abt the Mario spinoffs.

 

And on that note I apologise for getting heated about that, I probably did so because people quickly started assuming I was insulting the Mario series but no one besides me was defending the Pokémon series, causing me to feel ganged up on. (which is very important to me hence I got over-defensive).

[WarioBone]

I think my problem was that my wishlist involved Sakurai actually giving a shit about Metroid and Donkey Kong, which, in retrospect, is stupid on my part.

[JaidynReiman]

I understand, I just don't agree. I know the Mario spinoffs aren't exactly the same as Pokémon having more reps, but Pokémon is so popular that I just don't see it as a problem and it's definitely not something that Sakurai would actively limit.

 

Besides like I said before, almost no one here would be against Zelda having another rep, the grand majority of you, myself included, wanted a new Zelda character, which would give Zelda 6 reps. If you don't think Pokémon should have another rep, that's fine, but pulling in an imaginary "rep limit" rule is what I have a problem with. I brought up the Mario spinoffs as part of the proof that the rep limit exists, but there are plenty of other factors pointing to that too that I probably should have focused on rather than getting heated abt the Mario spinoffs.

 

And on that note I apologise for getting heated about that, I probably did so because people quickly started assuming I was insulting the Mario series but no one besides me was defending the Pokémon series, causing me to feel ganged up on. (which is very important to me hence I got over-defensive).

At one point I was intrigued by the idea of a sixth Zelda rep, but frankly, I was never too interested in it. The only character I'd like to see as a new Zelda rep is Impa or maybe Vaati. Honestly, though, I'd rather just them revamp Ganondorf and skip a new Zelda rep. Now THAT would make me more hyped for this game than anything the Gematsu leak can provide (another thing that would hype me is getting Robin instead of Chrom).

 

 

I think my problem was that my wishlist involved Sakurai actually giving a shit about Metroid and Donkey Kong, which, in retrospect, is stupid.

A DK newcomer isn't denied yet. I'm still hopeful for K. Rool. But yeah, if we got Mii Fighters, Palutena, and a new FE character but no new DK character (which got a FAR bigger comeback), I'll be quite pissed off.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I understand, I just don't agree. I know the Mario spinoffs aren't exactly the same as Pokémon having more reps, but Pokémon is so popular that I just don't see it as a problem and it's definitely not something that Sakurai would actively limit.

 

And just saying that would have saved us a lot of time and words. People weren't angry you were defending Pokémon, they were angry that you were defending Pokémon by bringing down a few beloved franchises to the level of another pocket monster. It's similar to people claiming Sonic game Y is great because it's so much better than Sonic game X; it doesn't really bolster Sonic game Y's reputation so much as it pisses off fans of Sonic game X. Such a thing might be true, but it lacks tact and respect for the other fans who share the site.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I think my problem was that my wishlist involved Sakurai actually giving a shit about Metroid and Donkey Kong, which, in retrospect, is stupid on my part.

Sakurai does give a shit about Metroid. He doesn't think Ridley would work as a playable character, and regardless of your stance on that particular issue it's clear that he's been trying to appeal to Metroid fans as much as possible via other means. Metroid has a new stage, two new assist trophies along with one returning, and a returning Zero Suit Samus with a larger focus as being her own character instead of just an alternate form for Samus. He's tried to appeal to Ridley fans by making him a stage hazard, and while a lot of people aren't exactly happy about this, and are perfectly justified in feeling that way, at the end of the day he thought that this would be a good compromise and genuinely believed it would satisfy people. Naive and misguided, maybe, but not explicitly malicious.

 

And yeah we've still had fuck all from Donkey Kong besides Diddy, but we've also had fuck all from Kirby, Sakurai's baby, so far, so I'm still holding out hope that Donkey Kong isn't going to get the shaft this time around. But maybe I'm the one being naive there.

[Mr Useful]

And yeah we've still had fuck all from Donkey Kong besides Diddy, but we've also had fuck all from Kirby, Sakurai's baby, so far, so I'm still holding out hope that Donkey Kong isn't going to get the shaft this time around. But maybe I'm the one being naive there.

I can't see why Sakurai wouldn't add Dixie Kong as a playable character for Smash 4 when DKCTF is still recent and he brought back fucking Chunky Kong as an AT. Maybe even K. Rool because the Kremlings are enemies in Smash Run.

[MegasonicZX]

I think my problem was that my wishlist involved Sakurai actually giving a shit about Metroid and Donkey Kong, which, in retrospect, is stupid on my part.

Well to be fair, DK and metroid don't really have too many characters to pull from unless you count the mooks that you fight in them (space pirates and those alligator things that i'm forgetting the name of) and for the ones that do seem like good choices probably weren't considered at the time that the game was in that part of development.

[JaidynReiman]

Well to be fair, DK and metroid don't really have too many characters to pull from unless you count the mooks that you fight in them (space pirates and those alligator things that i'm forgetting the name of) and for the ones that do seem like good choices probably weren't considered at the time that the game was in that part of development.

DK has tons of great characters. For Metroid, I'll give you that (Ridley's the only real notable recurring character other than Samus herself), but DK is quite a big franchise with numerous notable characters who could potentially be playable. The only real ones that have any chance, though, are King K. Rool and Dixie Kong, whom are both EXTREMELY important to the franchise, and those two being added would round out the main DK cast.

And yes, K. Rool is still a main DK character even if he's been absent for a couple of games. He'll be back soon enough anyway.

[MegasonicZX]

DK has tons of great characters. For Metroid, I'll give you that (Ridley's the only real notable recurring character other than Samus herself), but DK is quite a big franchise with numerous notable characters who could potentially be playable. The only real ones that have any chance, though, are King K. Rool and Dixie Kong, whom are both EXTREMELY important to the franchise, and those two being added would round out the main DK cast.

And yes, K. Rool is still a main DK character even if he's been absent for a couple of games. He'll be back soon enough anyway.

True, keep on forgetting about them. 

[Guest]

If anyone should get a special treatment, it should be Kirby. Sakuria is the main one working on this game. Sakuria probably wouldn't be anywere without Kirby. He ows so much to the little guy.

[JaidynReiman]

If anyone should get a special treatment, it should be Kirby. Sakuria is the main one working on this game. Sakuria probably wouldn't be anywere without Kirby. He ows so much to the little guy.

Kirby already has plenty of special treatment. Kirby characters were practically the stars of the entire Subspace Emissary. That and I don't see why Sakurai should give Kirby MORE special treatment when he's already giving Kirby a TON of special treatment, and he really shouldn't because then it gets into the whole creator bias thing. No, sorry, Kirby is just fine the way it is, he already gives Kirby more than enough treatment.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I can't help but feel a bit miffed when Sakurai said "Namco won't be getting any special treatment", yet Pac-Man's move set is like, really amazing/unique compared to Sonic's. I mean, Sonic's still fun to play as and all, but his move set just seems kind of lazy. They only changed one move of his, the down smash.

[KHCast]

When was this stage revealed again? Cause we haven't seen anything about it for awhile now. Like is this a actual stage, or is it part of some mini-game?