Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Lady Soniko]

Was it explicitly stated somewhere that they'll have identical rosters for both systems?

[Conando]

Sakurai said it long ago, I admit I don't have a link for it, though. Hopefully someone else can dredge one up, I'm too lazy right now.

[Marcello]

I think it'll just show all previously revealed characters and stages.

 

I'm not bothered by clones. I get that it's annoying that some characters have more potential, but in the end I think they're just some bonuses the team is throwing at us. They're not all too much work and I can play as another character I like. Falco for example is my favorite Star Fox character and I was really happy to be able to play as him, even though he's very similar to Fox. I don't think they take any spots from anyone else. It's probably them as a clone or nothing at all.

[KHCast]

Was it explicitly stated somewhere that they'll have identical rosters for both systems?

The most recent thing I can think of is the Smash Bros Direct a couple months back. Sakurai says at the beginning pretty clearly, both versions share characters.

[SuperLink]

Guys one thing you have to realise about clones is that they take almost no time to develop compared to most characters. What I'm saying is, for example, the full development time could go into making 40 characters, or it could go into making 40 characters PLUS a few clones.
 
Lucina and Dark Pit for example are highly identical within their own series' to Marth/Pit respectively, that means that it's kinda understandable for them to control similarly. A lot of people wanted Lucina to be an alt. skin for Marth (especially preferable to not having her in at all), and this is a better alternative to that. It is a bit disappointing that she doesn't have her own moveset, but Robin was the focus of that trailer and I think having Lucina at all is better than not having her, especially since she's supposed to fight like Marth.

 

Lucina takes as much time to develop as male Wii Fit Trainer, or one of Villager's outfits, plus some additional audio work. She's not "taking up" a slot. She's adding a slot on top of what we're already getting. Fair enough if you don't like clones, but don't get the wrong idea about slots being "taken up", it doesn't work like that.

 

On that note, it's worth mentioning that the reason Melee had so many clones was because it was developed in only a year, the clone characters were to round off the roster number because the roster would have been pretty small without them.

 

 

I'm cool with this. Clones are pretty much bonus characters on the roster anyway.
 
The best part is that it actually makes sense for her to be a clone of Marth. Could Dark Pit be on the horizon?

Yeah I'm pretty confident we'll see Dark Pit now.
 
On the CoroCoro thing:
 
http://corocoro.tv/next/ Here's a source
 
And here's a more accurate translation;

"We're including an additional jam-packed volume containing all of the characters and stages for the up and coming 3DS version of Smash Bros.!!! Keep your eyes peeled for when it goes on sale!"

 

It's hard to know exactly what this means, whether it means all starter characters or all of everything, and while this sounds a little concerning that our fun may be over so soon, keep in mind that the Gematsu leak (which is correct 9/10 times) seemed pretty confident that there would be post-release DLC. I'm thinking characters on the base version of the Wii U game will be available for purchase on 3DS when they're ready, for example.

[Autosaver]

Her physical ablilites are identical to Marth's--it must be in her D.N.A.

very funny

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just because a character is suppose to impersonate a character in their home series doesn't mean they can't be given noticable differences as a standalone character. I really don't think that's a defense for any character when they can still be given enough differences to stand alone while having some similarities bridge them together.

 

It's like Wolf and Fox. It's one thing to make a differences between characters where they technically have the same moves but they do different things, such as Wolf's Illusion shooting diagonally to Fox's horizontal, while somewhat sharing moves like their Wolf/Fox Fire. Now more power to them if they're going this route (except for Final Smashes, please make that different by all means), because otherwise I see it as lazy when you can at least make more of an effort to make them stand apart. Especially one as creatively diverse like Fire Emblem, because characters like Lucina can change classes - why not be creative and mix classes to hold on to some similarites to Ike while giving her some of her own separate abilities?

 

All in all, despite my disappointments over my favorites not getting in, whether a character is in the game or not doesn't matter to me that much. It's what they do in the game (or rather how they fight) that should be more important. That's where the uniqueness should lie.

[Teoskaven]

Smash 4 is out before TGS occurs. TGS happens September 18th-21st. Smash 4 releases on September 13th.

 

Didn't the E3 trailer stated that it will be released in October?

[Autosaver]

Lucina is awesome.

Lucina is my love.
I will play as Lucina.

None of the hate will go past me.

Lucina is life.

My body is ready.

 

So yeah, I'm gonna play as Lucina. I think she looks cool and fun to play as. I'm glad she's in and I disagree with the "She's wasting a slot!" comments.

[SuperLink]

Just because a character is suppose to impersonate a character in their home series doesn't mean they can't be given noticable differences as a standalone character. I really don't think that's a defense for any character when they can still be given enough differences to stand alone while having some similarities bridge them together.

 

It's like Wolf and Fox. It's one thing to make a differences between characters where they technically have the same moves but they do different things, such as Wolf's Illusion shooting diagonally to Fox's horizontal, while somewhat sharing moves like their Wolf/Fox Fire. Now more power to them if they're going this route (except for Final Smashes, please make that different by all means), but still I see it as lazy when you can at least make more of an effort to make them stand apart. Whether they're in the game or not doesn't matter to me, it's what they do in the game (or rather how they fight) that should be more important.

It's not "lazy" when she's most likely a "why not/bonus" character that we wouldn't be getting at all otherwise.

 

Sakurai puts every moment of development time into packing these games with as much content as he could make, and he can't make everyone happy, but if he only has enough time to make a certain amount of unique characters, it's not "lazy" to throw in a couple of characters that are little more than costumes, it's a bonus.

 

Would people complain if Male Wii Fit Trainer got his own character slot? Yes.

 

Why? The exact same amount of development has gone into Male Wii Fit Trainer and Lucina, Lucina perhaps a little bit more, but it's not like she's imposing on anyone else's development time. If you complain about her, you may aswell complain about all costumes, because the only difference between Lucina and Male Wii Fit Trainer is that you select her with a box programmed onto the character select screen rather than an alternate costume select button programmed onto the character select screen.

 

Sakurai can't please everyone, but I can say with confidence that we would not have gotten Lucina otherwise. If we did, she would have taken up the development time of another popular character, and even more people would "hate Fire Emblem for taking up character slots".

 

I think people need to realise that this is the best situation for them, the players. Sakurai knew that people would complain "too much Fire Emblem" so he did this in a way that would not interfere with development time. If Lucina wasn't a clone, we'd probably be losing one of the other original characters we've gotten. It's pretty simple.

[Marcello]

I don't think Dark Pit will get his own slot. Unlike Lucina, he's literally a recolor. All giving him his own slot would do is give Pit a few more alternate colors. I think he'll stay an alternate color of Pit's.

[Conando]

Didn't the E3 trailer stated that it will be released in October?

That's the North American and European release date. Japan gets it on Sept. 13th.

 

http://www.smashbros.com/jp/

[Red Cap]

The funny thing about all this is that everyone would have been freakin' hyped if she was revealed to be just an alt skin for Marth. But for some reason it's worse that she's a clone (which is objectively a better choice)? I don't get it.

[Junko]

The funny thing about all this is, that everyone would have been freakin' hyped if she was revealed as an alt skin for Marth. But for some reason it's worse that she's a clone (which is objectively a better choice)? I don't get it.

Waste of a character slot really. If she was a skin, she wouldn't take up a slot.

 

EDIT: I'm also for Lucina by the way, I'm just echoing what I've seen.

[SuperLink]

The funny thing about all this is that everyone would have been freakin' hyped if she was revealed to be just an alt skin for Marth. But for some reason it's worse that she's a clone (which is objectively a better choice)? I don't get it.

Yeah this precisely. Because it takes the same amount of development time either way.

 

Waste of a character slot really. If she was a skin, she wouldn't take up a slot.

Read my posts, it doesn't work like that. At all.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's not "lazy" when she's most likely a "why not/bonus" character that we wouldn't be getting at all otherwise.

 

Sakurai puts every moment of development time into packing these games with as much content as he could make, and he can't make everyone happy, but if he only has enough time to make a certain amount of unique characters, it's not "lazy" to throw in a couple of characters that are little more than costumes, it's a bonus.

Okay, then I'll go a step further and say it's a lazy bonus. Because either way it goes, Lucina doesn't have to be full on a clone based on the information I'm getting. If she's not, then great, but I'm skeptical at the moment.

 

Why? The exact same amount of development has gone into Male Wii Fit Trainer and Lucina, Lucina perhaps a little bit more, but it's not like she's imposing on anyone else's development time. If you complain about her, you may aswell complain about all costumes, because the only difference between Lucina and Male Wii Fit Trainer is that you select her with a box programmed onto the character select screen rather than an alternate costume select button programmed onto the character select screen.

 

Sakurai can't please everyone, but I can say with confidence that we would not have gotten Lucina otherwise. If we did, she would have taken up the development time of another popular character, and even more people would "hate Fire Emblem for taking up character slots".

Dude, I think you're talking to the wrong person because I couldn't care less whether or not we would have gotten Lucina or that she's imposing on anyone's development time. I care more that Lucina is not her own unique fighter. That's my issue with the clone thing, and that's what I find to be lazy because I'd like characters like her to show their own strengths and weaknesses without relying too much on the strengths and weakness of another character. I wouldn't mind if two or half of her moves were the same from Marth while the others are completely different, but I do find it lazy when this bonus we've been given has to stand on someone elses template in full.

 

 

 

I think people need to realise that this is the best situation for them, the players. Sakurai knew that people would complain "too much Fire Emblem" so he did this in a way that would not interfere with development time. If Lucina wasn't a clone, we'd probably be losing one of the other original characters we've gotten. It's pretty simple.

What's also simple is that if Lucina isn't a predominant clone, she'd be far more unique as a fighter. I think characters like her deserve more than that.

[Solkia]

So I'm starting to understand why people hate the "waste of a roster slot line" because I'm really having a hard time seeing how Lucina, one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters of all fucking time, is a waste of a slot in a fucking fanservice game simply because she doesn't pander to tourney fucks by being a clone of Marth.

[Junko]

So I'm starting to understand why people hate the "waste of a roster slot line" because I'm really having a hard time seeing how Lucina, one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters of all fucking time, is a waste of a slot in a fucking fanservice game simply because she doesn't pander to tourney fucks by being a clone of Marth.

I swear some people have been saying she's actually better though?

[SuperLink]

Okay, then I'll go a step further and say it's a lazy bonus. Because either way it goes, Lucina doesn't have to be full on a clone based on the information I'm getting. If she's not, then great, but I'm skeptical at the moment.

 

Dude, I think you're talking to the wrong person because I couldn't care less whether or not we would have gotten Lucina or that she's imposing on anyone's development time. I care more that Lucina is not her own unique fighter. That's my issue with the clone thing, and that's what I find to be lazy because I'd like characters like her to show their own strengths and weaknesses without relying too much on the strengths and weakness of another character. I wouldn't mind if two of her moves were the same from Marth, but I do find it lazy when this bonus we've been given has to stand on someone elses template in full.

 

What's also simple is that if Lucina isn't a predominant clone, she'd be far more unique as a fighter. I think characters like her deserve more than that.

I don't think you're getting me because I'm saying she can't get more than that, there isn't enough development time for her to get more than that x-x she's a bonus because she is being made on top of the unique movesets in the game, but development is mostly focused elsewhere, there isn't enough space or time within development to make her her own unique moves because that takes tons of work and money.

 

How can it possibly be a "lazy" bonus if they're doing everything they can with the time they have? It's not like they're gonna lie down 4 weeks before launch and say "phew, that's it, nothing else to do", they are packing this game to the brim.

 

It's this Lucina, or no Lucina, she is a bonus addition on top of the many unique movesets we're already getting, and I personally would rather have her at all than not have her. Like Red Cap said, if she was an alt. skin, people would be hype as shit, and this is better.

 

I can understand that you'd prefer her to be original, but if you'd rather not have her at all than have her in the bonus state she's in, all that proves is that it's impossible for Sakurai to please everyone because I'm certain he knows there are many people who'd rather have her as an alt skin than not at all.

[Red Cap]

Waste of a character slot really. If she was a skin, she wouldn't take up a slot.

 

No, not really. The difference in the amount of time spent getting her in as a skin or as a clone is negligible. It probably took them less than a day to change up her moves. Heck, I could do that in less than a day. And it's not like there's a finite number of slots they can put on the CSS before they run out or something. They can add as many slots as they want.

[Solly]

So I'm starting to understand why people hate the "waste of a roster slot line" because I'm really having a hard time seeing how Lucina, one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters of all fucking time, is a waste of a slot in a fucking fanservice game simply because she doesn't pander to tourney fucks by being a clone of Marth.

Woah, woah. I agree that this "wasting a slot" stuff is utter nonsense and that it always has been, but "tourney fucks"? Really?

 

I don't play in tourneys. I couldn't give less of a shit about that- I play Smash Bros very casually. But a clone character is a clone character. I'm a big fan of Lucina and I think she's really poorly realized. Especially considering that, in Smash, I don't feel like characters with slight differences add nearly as much as, say, Street Fighter with its shotos. 

 

I swear some people have been saying she's actually better though?

There's literally no reason to be saying that so far, though. Any comparisons between her and Marth are being done from 12 seconds of footage based on 2 different builds, after Sakurai already said their abilities are identical. 

[Solkia]

I swear some people have been saying she's actually better though?

 

Gameplay aside for a bit, MArth was always a shitty as hell protagonist. He's one of those goody two-shoes "WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO DIE WHY CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG BLUH". He's right up there with Eirika as the worst FE protag.

 

But he's also a fucking amazing smash bros character. So what happens when you give his moves to Lucina, a steadfast, determined girl who has seen hell and kept her head up high and never complained about it?

 

Yeah, she is better. Even if she's an exact carbon copy or not, this is much better.

[Doctor MK]

Ah, good to see it finally cleared up that Lucina is her own separate character - albeit a clone of Marth with very minimal differences.

 

Yes, it's disappointing that she's not got her own moveset, but she's still one hell of a great Fire Emblem character and if I had to pick between her and Marth I'd pick Lucina any day. There's still a chance she might have her own unique Final Smash, so that's something I guess? And I'm absolutely confident she isn't taking up anyone else's spot - aside from making her model (which no doubt they would have done for a trophy anyway) and throwing in some voice work, she'll have taken up no time whatsoever compared to a truly unique fighter. Arguably that's why we've got Lucina in but not Chrom - rather than disappoint both sets of fans, it's quicker and easier to make a clone than someone with their own original moveset.

 

Besides, it's not as if we haven't got clones in Smash 4 already. Toon Link, anyone? Falco and/or Wolf are pretty much a certainty too, I'd say. So Lucina is hardly a special case. She's just a neat bonus that adds to the female representation in the game and appeases the Fire Emblem fans who wanted to see her in. Better her be a clone than lose out completely.

[Solkia]

Is Toon Link a clone? I know his moves are the same but I thought he was faster or something.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't think you're getting me because I'm saying she can't get more than that, there isn't enough development time for her to get more than that x-x she's a bonus because she is being made on top of the unique movesets in the game, but development is mostly focused elsewhere, there isn't enough space or time within development to make her her own unique moves because that takes tons of work and money.

 

How can it possibly be a "lazy" bonus if they're doing everything they can with the time they have? It's not like they're gonna lie down 4 weeks before launch and say "phew, that's it, nothing else to do", they are packing this game to the brim.

Because within that time they had before when they picked her, they could have given more noticable functional differences, and we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place.

 

How do we even know how long they've had to develop and finish her before they decided to release her trailer with the Avatar? Because you make it sound more like they were rushing to put her in the game at the last minute. And if that's the case, then that seems to be a issue with how they're managing things to me instead.

 

Otherwise, with all that development being as costly as it is, that's still no excuse as far as I can tell. For all I know, and feel free to prove me wrong, they might have had the same amount of time on average in making her like all the other characters, which is plenty of time for them to make enough differences to make her unique, only that they decided to go the easy way out like they did Toon Link.

 

 

 

It's this Lucina, or no Lucina, she is a bonus addition on top of the many unique movesets we're already getting, and I personally would rather have her at all than not have her. Like Red Cap said, if she was an alt. skin, people would be hype as shit, and this is better.

Well then I'm going to stand by my earlier point and say that I'd rather not have Lucina if she's going to be too much of a clone. More power to you if you don't care, but I do. So argue all you want, but my point will always be that Lucina could have been better than this.

 

EDIT:

I can understand that you'd prefer her to be original, but if you'd rather not have her at all than have her in the bonus state she's in, all that proves is that it's impossible for Sakurai to please everyone because I'm certain he knows there are many people who'd rather have her as an alt skin than not at all.

Well first off, only a failure tries to please everyone, because that's impossible by default. Someone's always going to get pissy that they didn't get everything they wanted.

 

I'm not wanting Lucina to be original for the sake of pleasing me, because I might not even play her. I want her to be original for other people that would play her because she would bring more to the table for them instead of being modeled off someone already there.