Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Junko]

Ness needing to be nerfed has been a thing since Day One but uh

Not happening anytime soon.

[DBZHedgy]

I don't think he needs to be nerfed as a whole, but c'mon. 

A Death Combo that's inescapable starting at 0% onward is so cheap

[...]

Not to derail the current topic, but I still think Ness' PK Fire should be nerfed. 

I tested the combo on a level 9 CPU to make sure that it was inescapable, and lo and behold, it is. 0-death true combo.

(Excuse the poor quality, I only have the 3DS version) 

0:50 for the combo

Also, this was like two patches ago, so I'm not sure if this still works, but from the look of Ness being untouched, I would assume that it still works. I wouldn't mind if his Back throw got nerfed a bit either.

There's a thing called perfectshielding and DI. People should learn how to do them.

[Junko]

There's a thing called perfectshielding and DI. People should learn how to do them.

>AI

>Playing on the level of a human

That's a good joke

[Wraith]

There's a thing called perfectshielding and DI. People should learn how to do them.

 

Are you trying to imply Ness doesn't need a nerf? Please tell me you're not implying that

[...]

>AI

>Playing on the level of a human

That's a good joke

i know that level 9s definitely aren't worth using for legit practice. They're literally computers meant to read all your inputs and have inhuman reaction time and reflexes.

The point is Ness can be dealt with, and his back throw has been a deadly KO move in literally all his incarnations. It's like wanting to nerf Charizard or Mewtwo's up throw. PK Fire is pretty predictable and can be punished if you shield it or dodge it.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Felix

[Wraith]

i know that level 9s definitely aren't worth using for legit practice. They're literally computers meant to read all your inputs and have inhuman reaction time and reflexes.

The point is Ness can be dealt with, and his back throw has been a deadly KO move in literally all his incarnations. It's like wanting to nerf Charizard or Mewtwo's up throw. PK Fire is pretty predictable and can be punished if you shield it or dodge it.

Ness's backthrow shouldn't be kept the way it is on the basis that "It's always like that." Since they buffed him to make him ridiculous in several other ways, asking for the backthrow to not be completely ridiculous isn't unreasonable.

[...]

 

Ness's backthrow shouldn't be kept the way it is on the basis that "It's always like that." Since they buffed him to make him ridiculous in several other ways, asking for the backthrow to not be completely ridiculous isn't unreasonable.

Even if he has been buffed, he still had his dair nerfed (which was one of his most important offstage moves in previous games) and still has issues such as a gimpable recovery that doesn't travel much distance and having trouble approaching quick opponents like Pikachu, Sonic, Sheik and ZSS. That and since he's p light he can get KO'd early. Like any character, Ness has critical weaknesses, you just have to play smart and know the matchup. 

It's not even like his back throw is crazy (a good amount of characters gave throws that kill somewhat early at the ledge, like Wario's forward throw, Toon Link's back throw, Mewtwo's back throw etc.) it's one of his signature moves and it's pretty much gonna stay that way for a while. It's my thoughts that he doesn't need a nerf and I'm sticking to it. If there's something worth getting mad at towards, it's the Rage mechanic. Even then, its a double edged sword and only highly benefits certain characters.

Apologies if I came off agressive, just putting my two cents.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Felix

[Wraith]

Even if he has been buffed, he still had his dair nerfed (which was one of his most important offstage moves in previous games) and still has issues such as a gimpable recovery that doesn't travel much distance and having trouble approaching quick opponents like Pikachu, Sonic, Sheik and ZSS. That and since he's p light he can get KO'd early. Like any character, Ness has critical weaknesses, you just have to play smart and know the matchup. 

It's not even like his back throw is crazy (a good amount of characters gave throws that kill somewhat early at the ledge, like Wario's forward throw, Toon Link's back throw, Mewtwo's back throw etc.) it's one of his signature moves and it's pretty much gonna stay that way for a while. It's my thoughts that he doesn't need a nerf and I'm sticking to it. If there's something worth getting mad at towards, it's the Rage mechanic. Even then, its a double edged sword and only highly benefits certain characters.

Apologies if I came off agressive, just putting my two cents.

 

Ness' s status as a top tier character means any of the "weaknesses" he has aren't really holding him back that much. Not to mention that Lucas exists with most of the same flaws Ness has and almost none of the ridiculous shit and is considered one of the more balanced characters in the game. 

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I'd rather Ness not be nerfed but that's only because I main him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[...]

 

Ness' s status as a top tier character means any of the "weaknesses" he has aren't really holding him back that much. Not to mention that Lucas exists with most of the same flaws Ness has and almost none of the ridiculous shit and is considered one of the more balanced characters in the game. 

That's because he has more prominent flaws than Ness. He misses out on most of the combo ability Ness has since PK Fire doesn't linger, and even tho his grab has good range it's laggy and punishable. That and his up air has a stupidly tiny hitbox.

Lucas still has his since his back throw (which kills around 90-100% at the edge, which is the near the same as Ness) and up throw can kill reliably and benefits highly from reads due to him having a deadly punish game. 

Ness isn't really jank by any means. A formidable threat but not broken. I wouldn't cry if he got nerfs since I'd just ircumvent them in the end, but although I do agree him still getting buffs even when he's one of the best characters in the game is a tad much. Guess we'll just agree to disagree when it comes to this.

[DBZHedgy]

 

There's a thing called perfectshielding and DI. People should learn how to do them.

Lvl.9 CPUs are insanely prominent with this though. They perfectshield anything if they aren't in landing lag, or in the endlag of one of their attacks and DI out of everything, which pretty much solidifies how OP and broken this combo is. Just land one PK Fire, and it's pretty much over :/

I'd say that's pretty unfair, and in most cases (if not all) worse than Diddy's Hoo-Hah.

I'm sort of on the fence about them nerfing his Back Throw though. Even though he had it in like every other entry in the series, he didn't have as many other good qualities that he has in this game, like the PK Thunder lock kill, and the Down throw combos. I'd be okay with it killing at like 120% ish? He has plenty of other kill moves besides that, so it wouldn't drop him much.

Lucas still has his since his back throw (which kills around 90-100% at the edge, which is the near the same as Ness) and up throw can kill reliably and benefits highly from reads due to him having a deadly punish game. 

I think Lucas' endlag on his tether grab is a good balance to how his Up throw kills, even though it still kills a bit later than Ness' at midstage. Lucas is perfectly balanced in my opinion.

i know that level 9s definitely aren't worth using for legit practice. They're literally computers meant to read all your inputs and have inhuman reaction time and reflexes.

but that just makes them all the better at sparring against because if you can pull it off on them, than you can most certainly pull whatever combo off on a human player too =P

[Junko]

Let's see how long this lasts.

[Xenos]

The only thing they need to change on Ness is PK Thunder. It's absolutely huge and has a billion hitboxes everywhere, and PK Thunder 2 is incredibly stupid and should probably get a huge nerf in kill power, it's honestly retarded.

 

And to compensate his recovery is better, I think that would normalize him without neutering his strengths as is.

[DBZHedgy]

I disagree, PK Thunder as it is, is a double edged sword, as opposed to previously where it was more of a liability as a recovery. It's still pretty hard to use considering this though. Predictable use of PK Thunder and PK Thunder 2 can really open a Ness player up for punishes.

A PK Fire nerf is all he really needs (maybe back throw nerf) and we're good.

[...]

Agreed. PK Thunder 2 doesn't need a nerf. It takes a hell of a good read to actually hit somebody with it, and like DBZ said it's rather predictable and a free punish if Ness misses anyway. Besides him having a reliable offstage projectile is something he needed, decreasing its usability when it isn't even required is dumb.

[JaidynReiman]

Let's see how long this lasts.

He stated several other things, some of which he deleted.

 

One thing he said is that he'd "hang" himself if it was Wolf or an Indie rep (SK/Shantae). He also said its a newcomer. Either way, saying "Nintendo" confirms its not third-party.

He also said he doesn't think its a ballot winner but its still a character that makes sense. One of my Skype buddies said that someone else knew the info and revealed the line refers to the fact that they don't think its a ballot winner because they're coming out two weeks after the ballot ended, not that they didn't seem like a character who would be on the ballot, so it could be anyone.

 

RogersBase on twitter has also said he's surprisingly gotten some hype Nintendo news recently he can't reveal, but its about an 8 or 9 on the hype scale. Someone responded to him and stated that he knows all the ballot characters, and he said "That would be more of a 10 on the hype scale." So my guess is he may have gotten word about a Nintendo Direct.

 

Either way, there's a quick deadline for this, but if this stuff really did get leaked, I think someone is going to make it public before it ever gets officially revealed.

[Wraith]

He stated several other things, some of which he deleted.

 

One thing he said is that he'd "hang" himself if it was Wolf or an Indie rep (SK/Shantae). He also said its a newcomer. Either way, saying "Nintendo" confirms its not third-party.

He also said he doesn't think its a ballot winner but its still a character that makes sense. One of my Skype buddies said that someone else knew the info and revealed the line refers to the fact that they don't think its a ballot winner because they're coming out two weeks after the ballot ended, not that they didn't seem like a character who would be on the ballot, so it could be anyone.

 

RogersBase on twitter has also said he's surprisingly gotten some hype Nintendo news recently he can't reveal, but its about an 8 or 9 on the hype scale. Someone responded to him and stated that he knows all the ballot characters, and he said "That would be more of a 10 on the hype scale." So my guess is he may have gotten word about a Nintendo Direct.

 

Either way, there's a quick deadline for this, but if this stuff really did get leaked, I think someone is going to make it public before it ever gets officially revealed.

Based on his tweets and this info, gonna throw out some guesses. 

I still think he was planned for the original game. It makes sense. I don't really care for this series myself but I think he deserves it.

 

Honestly? Might as well get it over with and put her in. If it's not now, it's Smash 5. 

From what I can tell, the most requested despite his lack of relevance to Donkey Kong and Nintendo as a whole in years. I could see it happening now. I may not like it, but I could see it.

 

 

 

[...]

I'm actually gonna go out on a limb and say we might possibly see Bandana Waddle Dee. Not only is he a very popular choice in Japan but he's been developing himself as his own character in the Kirby series lately, notably in Return to Dream Land and Triple Deluxe (which I need to play, dammit... only if my 3DS weren't borked). Not to mention the fact that he's practically moveset food and would get the entire RtDL crew together in Smash.

Since the guy said that it's not a ballot winner though, I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed. Dee wait is killing me.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Felix

[JaidynReiman]

I'm actually gonna go out on a limb and say we might possibly see Bandana Waddle Dee. Not only is he a very popular choice in Japan but he's been developing himself as his own character in the Kirby series lately, notably in Return to Dream Land and Triple Deluxe (which I need to play, dammit... only if my 3DS weren't borked). Since he said that it's not a ballot winner though, I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed. Dee wait is killing me.

He said he doesn't think its a ballot winner, and supposedly someone else who knows the info said that's only because the character is almost finished shortly after it ended. Which doesn't necessarily mean much because they could've used early ballot data and planned to plot out more characters when the ballot ends.

[DBZHedgy]

Please Isaac, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE

Do you know how much moveset potential he's got? An he was pretty high in the early ballot data to boot.

tbh though it's probably Wolf. It makes too much sense

[Thigolf]

My mind immediately sprung to Inkling when I read all the info Jaidyn posted. It just makes so much sense to me in my head, even though I can't exactly pinpoint why. It just...feels right.

(but I'm also secretly hoping for Bandana Dee >_<)

[AshGreninJovan]

Hey, guys! Do you think that Bowser's up special has been nerfed since Ver. 1.1.1? It seems that it can't launch Mario even he's above 100%.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-9C6Lov8c

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Speaking of Ness, have two fun replays I saved!

 

 

[...]

Speaking of Ness, have two fun replays I saved!

 

 

why you gotta be murdering your fellow Onett brethren like that man? The other Ness did nothing wrong ;_;