Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[KHCast]

A few favorite pics from that gallery:

 

 

[jords]

10 hours ago, Inspector Gabe said:

In terms of buffing fighters, only Sonic and Meta Knight are who come to mind. I don't think I'll ever understand how people are able to win as Sonic because his launching power sucks, even though he inflicts good damage. Meta Knight I think is in a similar situation, except with even less inflicted damaged.

You must be not watching major smash tournaments. 

You haven't seen 6wx's sonic

You haven't seen abadongo's metaknight and apparently he isn't even the best meta knight lool at least not yet after we see how Mexican player Leo goes against the top players either he goes to the US or players go to him.

All of sonic's aerials are really good to get some kills. Weak hit nair to bair at high percents. Good shit. Bair obviously being good on its on cause its strong and even the sour spot can kill and it last quite abit.

Up air for them possible early kills from grounded spring and bnb (bread and butter) of side b/down b to any aerial mainly up air and bair for me.

Sonic can get some early kills with fair even. Spindash jump offstage and hit theopponent and follow them close to the blast zone to finish it off with a fair.

Don't get me started on dair.

 

Yea.

Sonic fsmash is very good. Very quick and powerful. Not so safe but its pretty quick. Being able to aim it down can hit some characters that try to grab the ledge and get the 2 frame punish. An easy one to hit it is on Rosalina since her recovery has no hit box and its pretty easy to predict where and when she will launch.

I say easy but it still requires alot of practice of course but Rosalina is one of the easiest to punish.

I still need to get good with it though.....

Down smash is ground for roll reads if your not confident in using fsmash and choosing which side. Good kill move at the ledge and can also punish some players that stick their head over the ledge with their recovery. And it's good to punish those that regrab the ledge.

Up smash is his worst smash attack. Not really reliable for a kill move but I use it rarely just to mix up for a kill. I prefer to use it only once or twice in a match. Too much endlag. Especially since it doesn't really kill.

 Down/siside b are just combo starters to set up for a kill and rack damage.

Both would be a oooooooooo good if bsbs didn't exist. It's the main specials that has many casuals killing themselves that are trying him out because they have no idea why their jump is gone even though a double jump was not even used. (Sakurai pls fix it lol)

This is probably one of the reasons why some people give up on sonic cause they can't keep track on their jumps and the ways they are using spindash. 

Spring is good forgimping and for getting a follow up for a up air kill. Grounded spring can be very useful if your opponent approachs while your bouncing on it. But its also not really reliable but its good to just mix up your ways of moving around the stage and in certain situations you can get some really early kills.

Homing attack is okay. Can get some cute kills with it from down b or side b. It had two types of end lag. One which he bounces of the ground and one were he uncurls just before he lands which has him on his hands and knees which is the lag you definitely don't want but both are very punishable anyways. On shield is alright but still punishable. 

Sonic's tilts are very good except up tilt but it still has its uses. Down tilt can set up for a jab lock at certain percents but that's if the player doesn't tech but its pretty quick so you would have to react fast. I wanna see more sonic's use this.

Side tilt is really good. Pretty quick and the end lag isn't bad.

Overall, sonic has good kill moves, its just that he can sometimes have trouble killing in some MU mostly because he struggles to gain stage control since his landing options are pretty shitty. Keeping stage control is also difficult too. Committing to a spindash makes you loose control if your opponent shields it and chase after you to punish which sonic has trouble in sometimes. 

Sonic's good because he has very good mix ups which many players complain about (aka salt) because he's being campy and running away all the time and "lol this character sucks overall" (game franchise wise)

Being a campy sonic is boring and lame but being defensive AND aggressive is not and is Something sonic can do very well IMO. Its something called playing smart.

But yea that's my two cents.

If anyone else think what I said is wrong then say so if you want. I'll listen. It's mostly in my experience with sonic.

TL;DR,

 

 

Sonic can kill.

 

Edit: I forgot to talk about meta knight. I kinda went ham with this long ass post about sonic loool.

Meta knight can kill way easier than sonic. All you need is a dash attack, a few up airs and then up b.

Almost works at any percent. 

Metaknight can also kill.

Also I hope I didn't sound rude in this post. 

[...]

Smash 4 now has an official tier list.

[TheChris110]

Oh man... the Smash DLC prices are laughably high. I think all the DLC costs more than the main game although it is much, much less content.

Luckily I'm not such a big Smash fan so it isn't a big problem for me to miss out on it. 

Mario Kart 8 DLC & New Super Luigi U was fine.

[Toa Axis]

1 hour ago, Felix said:

Smash 4 now has an official tier list.

Seems kind of odd to post this two days before new characters and a balance patch. Seems like it'll introduce some unnecessary trouble replacing all of these guys.

I actually largely agree with this list though. Think the Mii Fighters (sans SF) should be a bit higher but if this is based off of their default movesets then I can understand.

[Junko]

I'm really not that mad about it, I only think Pally and Lucas could be higher.

Quote

It's also really fucking dumb to release this when there's a patch in less than two days.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

"Y-you're not Ridley!"

"Meh, I'll have to do for now."

[caseykz]

12 hours ago, Felix said:

Smash 4 now has an official tier list.

Japanese players showing their stuff there.

last time i checked, everybody was screaming for shiek nerfs.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

 

 

Here's a fun match I had with @Red Cap a month or so ago!

[Azul]

17 hours ago, Felix said:

Smash 4 now has an official tier list.

This list is shit. Mew Two's way too low. He's one of the most OP characters in the game. His back and up throws are kill throws. His up-smash is ludicrous since it's a rapid hit and has crazy knock back, and his air-back has way to much range. Not to mention, he's got Confusion which is a game changer. Don't get me wrong, I hate his guts but I'll admit even the worst Mew Two players can be deadly. Not to mention many of these characters are either too low or too high.

But I don't believe in tier lists anyway. A good player makes the best out of who they've got. I could argue Ganon be ranked higher since he's one of, if not the strongest character in the game, and I love scoring 20 second kills with him. Due to the infinite combinations of play styles, no one character is better than the other. The different attributes allow for different play styles. It's a battle of creativity and wits.

I also noticed that Sheik is rated the best character while Zelda is the worst.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

That reminds me

10 minutes ago, Christmas Idol Luka said:

 

 

Here's a fun match I had with @Red Cap a month or so ago!

That reminds me. 

Here's a round of me (Cloud) vs Aidan's Ganondorf. 

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Many moons ago I was really good as Ganondorf ;-;

Playing with items is actually pretty fun, though.

[Cobalt_Bolt]

In response to the tier list I don't use them as a guideline for selecting a character to main I just try each character out and see which ones gel for me the most. For example I've gotten pretty good at playing with Lucina and Sonic as their movesets work well with my playstyle while Gannondorf and Donky Kong don't gel with me at all.

[Junko]

1 hour ago, Christmas Idol Luka said:

Here's a fun match I had with @Red Cap a month or so ago!

15 minutes ago, Cobalt_Bolt said:

In response to the tier list I don't use them as a guideline for selecting a character to main I just try each character out and see which ones gel for me the most. For example I've gotten pretty good at playing with Lucina and Sonic as their movesets work well with my playstyle while Gannondorf and Donky Kong don't gel with me at all.

Tier lists only exist for competitive viability anyway, they're by no means, a guide for you to pick a character.

Also, replays die tomorrow, you guys should be uploading those.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Oh yeah, replays. I think I already uploaded all the ones where I didn't just barely win via luck.

so who's gonna go straight to for glory with the new characters without any practice beforehand /s

[Azul]

I really wish you could upload 3DS replays to YouTube.

[Xenos]

2 hours ago, Azul said:

This list is shit. Mew Two's way too low. He's one of the most OP characters in the game. His back and up throws are kill throws. His up-smash is ludicrous since it's a rapid hit and has crazy knock back, and his air-back has way to much range. Not to mention, he's got Confusion which is a game changer. Don't get me wrong, I hate his guts but I'll admit even the worst Mew Two players can be deadly. Not to mention many of these characters are either too low or too high.

But I don't believe in tier lists anyway. A good player makes the best out of who they've got. I could argue Ganon be ranked higher since he's one of, if not the strongest character in the game, and I love scoring 20 second kills with him. Due to the infinite combinations of play styles, no one character is better than the other. The different attributes allow for different play styles. It's a battle of creativity and wits.

I also noticed that Sheik is rated the best character while Zelda is the worst.

wat

Mewtwo isn't that good fam. Not terrible either, but he's far from the most OP character in the game.

[jords]

3 hours ago, Azul said:

This list is shit. Mew Two's way too low. He's one of the most OP characters in the game. His back and up throws are kill throws. His up-smash is ludicrous since it's a rapid hit and has crazy knock back, and his air-back has way to much range. Not to mention, he's got Confusion which is a game changer. Don't get me wrong, I hate his guts but I'll admit even the worst Mew Two players can be deadly. Not to mention many of these characters are either too low or too high.

But I don't believe in tier lists anyway. A good player makes the best out of who they've got. I could argue Ganon be ranked higher since he's one of, if not the strongest character in the game, and I love scoring 20 second kills with him. Due to the infinite combinations of play styles, no one character is better than the other. The different attributes allow for different play styles. It's a battle of creativity and wits.

I also noticed that Sheik is rated the best character while Zelda is the worst.

Jigglypuff can't beat sheik

Little Mac can't beat sheik (how is that MU playable for Mac? Lol)

Zelda can't beat sheik.

Samus can't beat sheik.

These characters have to work super hard to be unpredictable but how can you do that with laggy moves. They might win games or even sets but they ain't winning tourney's. 

It's like with esam's samus. He's able to beat alot of lower level player with her because he is really smart but when hes gotta get serious and pick his main which is pikachu. A high tier with great moves. That one samus player at 2GG I think was making waves and even beat zero in a game with samus (mostly he had help with the duck hunt stage) but doesn't mean she's gonna be going up. Maybe abit but usually it's lack of knowledge which happen to zero and he says loosing to a samus isn't happening again. 

I believe the top and high tier is perfect tbh. Anything below is. Alright.

Also if it was bait then you win lol

Also I was mostly replying to what you said about no one character is better than the other. It's almost impossible to have it like that lol.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I hope I never fight a tourney Sheik, FG Sheiks are scary enough (though if I play as Jigglypuff they aren't as scary). ;;;;

Somewhat unrelated, tournaments are kinda boring to watch, since it's usually Sheik up at the top 8. I liked G3 though, nice variety there.

[Azul]

40 minutes ago, Xenos said:

wat

Mewtwo isn't that good fam. Not terrible either, but he's far from the most OP character in the game.

If I'm supposed to be convinced by a refute that doesn't even bother to support itself, you're under estimating my intelligence. Also, don't call me fam.

26 minutes ago, jords said:

Jigglypuff can't beat sheik

Little Mac can't beat sheik (how is that MU playable for Mac? Lol)

Zelda can't beat sheik.

Samus can't beat sheik.

These characters have to work super hard to be unpredictable but how can you do that with laggy moves. They might win games or even sets but they ain't winning tourney's. 

It's like with esam's samus. He's able to beat alot of lower level player with her because he is really smart but when hes gotta get serious and pick his main which is pikachu. A high tier with great moves. That one samus player at 2GG I think was making waves and even beat zero in a game with samus (mostly he had help with the duck hunt stage) but doesn't mean she's gonna be going up. Maybe abit but usually it's lack of knowledge which happen to zero and he says loosing to a samus isn't happening again. 

I believe the top and high tier is perfect tbh. Anything below is. Alright.

Also if it was bait then you win lol

Also I was mostly replying to what you said about no one character is better than the other. It's almost impossible to have it like that lol.

First of all, do not undermine what I'm saying by even comparing it to bait. The sad thing about being a part of something is that you're subjected to being categorized together for better or for worse out of sheer laziness of judgement. For future references, making broad judgements is always going to end badly.

Second: You're calling my opinion wrong so allow me to do the samething.

I've beaten every single character, level 9 or great players, with every character except Mr. G & W, Villager who I hate to death and Cloud, Mew Two, Roy, Lucas and Ryu whom I don't own. You're reasoning is based on your very small frame of reference, that is to say soley your experiences, and not on any actual fact. In other words, just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it's not true. How do you compensate for having slow moves? With having good timing. And being predictible is always a player problem. Every character is has its strenghths and weaknesses and it's up to the player to determine the most efficient play style to get around in a battle. 

I can't comment on the tier list any further since I've got my opinions and you've got yours. But if you're going to say it's wrong, at least have the decency to say why instead of just expecting me to blindly believe it.

[Xenos]

15 minutes ago, Azul said:

If I'm supposed to be convinced by a refute that doesn't even bother to support itself, you're under estimating my intelligence. Also, don't call me fam.

First of all, do not undermine what I'm saying by even comparing it to bait. The sad thing about being a part of something is that you're subjected to being categorized together for better or for worse out of sheer laziness of judgement. For future references, making broad judgements is always going to end badly.

Second: You're calling my opinion wrong so allow me to do the samething.

I've beaten every single character, level 9 or great players, with every character except Mr. G & W, Villager who I hate to death and Cloud, Mew Two, Roy, Lucas and Ryu whom I don't own. You're reasoning is based on your very small frame of reference, that is to say soley your experiences, and not on any actual fact. In other words, just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it's not true. How do you compensate for having slow moves? With having good timing. And being predictible is always a player problem. Every character is has its strenghths and weaknesses and it's up to the player to determine the most efficient play style to get around in a battle. 

I can't comment on the tier list any further since I've got my opinions and you've got yours. But if you're going to say it's wrong, at least have the decency to say why instead of just expecting me to blindly believe it.

Ok calm down

Mewtwo isn't that good because of a combination of his large size and weight. He's very easy to hit and when you do he explodes because he's the 2nd lightest character in the game. It's not a gigantic issue now that he's been buffed, but it's still significant enough to keep him from being as good as other characters.

Mewtwo's grab range is also very mediocre, and his grab isn't particularly fast. His up throw and back throw are decent at killing but they don't compare to superior kill throws of other characters (Ness, Toon Link). Furthermore, his grab game is okayish at best maybe, he doesn't really get any extensive combos or followups out of his down throw, he has enough to compete, (like 50/50 kill setups) but again, not too amazing.

His up tilt has a lot of cooldown for a move that's hitbox isn't very reliable, his back air is a good move, yes, but it's nowhere near as powerful as you make it out to be due to it's fairly honest startup, cooldown, and landing lag. Confusion isn't really all that great either. Most characters can jump out of it before he can do much of anything unless it's in the air for followups, or if he forces them to land on a platform above them. It's a situational move and it's not that powerful in the grand scheme of things.

That better?

 

 

[jords]

30 minutes ago, Azul said:

If I'm supposed to be convinced by a refute that doesn't even bother to support itself, you're under estimating my intelligence. Also, don't call me fam.

First of all, do not undermine what I'm saying by even comparing it to bait. The sad thing about being a part of something is that you're subjected to being categorized together for better or for worse out of sheer laziness of judgement. For future references, making broad judgements is always going to end badly.

Second: You're calling my opinion wrong so allow me to do the samething.

I've beaten every single character, level 9 or great players, with every character except Mr. G & W, Villager who I hate to death and Cloud, Mew Two, Roy, Lucas and Ryu whom I don't own. You're reasoning is based on your very small frame of reference, that is to say soley your experiences, and not on any actual fact. In other words, just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it's not true. How do you compensate for having slow moves? With having good timing. And being predictible is always a player problem. Every character is has its strenghths and weaknesses and it's up to the player to determine the most efficient play style to get around in a battle. 

I can't comment on the tier list any further since I've got my opinions and you've got yours. But if you're going to say it's wrong, at least have the decency to say why instead of just expecting me to blindly believe it.

 I wonder what great players you faced and beat with a low tier.  

Level 9 cpus.........this does not count nigga.......

You can have all the good timingin the world and Shiek would still be like lol fuck outta here. Sheik doesn't give a fuck about frame data that's why she is dominant in this game. Her weakness is killing against a few MU which is mostly TOP TIER characters that give her trouble. She's cruising fighting low tiers and mid tiers even at high level play.

Plus I am lazy(abit too lazy in some stuff lool). I'll happily judge if a post is bait or not. If I am wrong I still put out my reply instead of a one sentence post thinking its bait.

 

Bait   lol

[Junko]

12 minutes ago, Azul said:

If I'm supposed to be convinced by a refute that doesn't even bother to support itself, you're under estimating my intelligence. Also, don't call me fam.

First of all, do not undermine what I'm saying by even comparing it to bait. The sad thing about being a part of something is that you're subjected to being categorized together for better or for worse out of sheer laziness of judgement. For future references, making broad judgements is always going to end badly.

First of all, you're taking this waaaay too seriously my nigga. Chill out.

15 minutes ago, Azul said:

I've beaten every single character, level 9 or great players, with every character except Mr. G & W, Villager who I hate to death and Cloud, Mew Two, Roy, Lucas and Ryu whom I don't own. You're reasoning is based on your very small frame of reference, that is to say soley your experiences, and not on any actual fact. In other words, just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it's not true. How do you compensate for having slow moves? With having good timing. And being predictible is always a player problem. Every character is has its strenghths and weaknesses and it's up to the player to determine the most efficient play style to get around in a battle. 

Your reasoning is literally the same thing. Tier lists are based on tournament results and objective facts and figures. For one no one really plays Mewtwo except for Blue and Mew² and even then, Mewtwo statistically is kind of fucking bad.

[Azul]

4 hours ago, Xenos said:

Ok calm down

I'm calm. I'm just also really stern.

4 hours ago, jords said:

Bait   lol

Are you:

a. saying my response is bait

b. saying your response is bait

c. laughing at an earlier response

d. some fourth option

because I'm not going to dignify the rest of that reply with a response if the entire thing is a joke.

4 hours ago, Tiki said:

Your reasoning is literally the same thing.

No it's not. I'm using my experience in conjunction with a little abstract thought and deductive reasoning. It'd be literally the same thing if I entered a tournament and put more importancde on my results and that's just massively douchey.

4 hours ago, Tiki said:

Tier lists are based on tournament results and objective facts and figures.

The objective facts being that the tournaments have been won with certain characters more than others, right? Because all that's really saying is that more people are proficient at using certain characters more than others. If a lot of people lose playing as Mew Two, that just means they weren't proficient with that character enough to win. Theoretically, any a player can win the tournament with any character as long as their good enough. Judging the quality of a character based on a broad strokes assement is like saying one gun isn't as good as killing because the recoil messes you up. They were all made for the same purpose. It's the user's responsibility to famaliarize themselves with what they're handeling, otherwise face failure. You have to figure out the strenghts and weaknesses of your product and work with it.

4 hours ago, Tiki said:

For one no one really plays Mewtwo except for Blue and Mew² and even then, Mewtwo statistically is kind of fucking bad.

In tournaments or at all? Because I've seen plenty of people play as Mew Two in tournys as well as casually. As a matter of fact, that doesn't even look like a statement with any sound basis. Why exactly do you think Mew Two is hardly played? And the only thing those stats are saying is that a lot of people aren't good with Mew Two.

4 hours ago, Xenos said:

Mewtwo isn't that good because of a combination of his large size and weight. He's very easy to hit and when you do he explodes because he's the 2nd lightest character in the game. It's not a gigantic issue now that he's been buffed, but it's still significant enough to keep him from being as good as other characters.

Mewtwo's grab range is also very mediocre, and his grab isn't particularly fast. His up throw and back throw are decent at killing but they don't compare to superior kill throws of other characters (Ness, Toon Link). Furthermore, his grab game is okayish at best maybe, he doesn't really get any extensive combos or followups out of his down throw, he has enough to compete, (like 50/50 kill setups) but again, not too amazing.

His up tilt has a lot of cooldown for a move that's hitbox isn't very reliable, his back air is a good move, yes, but it's nowhere near as powerful as you make it out to be due to it's fairly honest startup, cooldown, and landing lag. Confusion isn't really all that great either. Most characters can jump out of it before he can do much of anything unless it's in the air for followups, or if he forces them to land on a platform above them. It's a situational move and it's not that powerful in the grand scheme of things.

I've only assessed his attacks. I can't make a comment about the weight and size. It's just how it is. Also, pardon me for the confusion on Confusion: I actually meant Disable. Since I've never played as Mew Two, I assumed Disable was Confusion since it puts you in a shield stun and actually makes it look like you were confused.

Mew Two's got the second strongest up throw in Sm4sh. I've been on the recieving end far too many times to not see how hazardous it is. And regardless of how his back throw fares againist Ness or Toon Link, it's still a fairly easy and annoying kill throw. And while not really that powerful, his forward throw traps you in place leaving you the target for follow up attacks. His up smash has the most knock back out of any of his attacks and on top of that traps foes in a multi-hit.  Lastly, Shadow Ball is one of the strongest and fastest projectiles in the game. Never mind that even if it's reflected, you can send it back even faster with Confusion. So unless you're Fox or the Pits, countering that is near impossible.

4 hours ago, jords said:

nigga.......

 

4 hours ago, Tiki said:

nigga.

Stop calling me that. I don't know ya'll like that :/ Plus it's generally never a good idea to talk to someone like that unless you know they're comfortable with it. For all you know, I could have been a social justice warrior ready to fire off about the importance of black progression yadda yadda yadda or just a super uptight black dude. Or maybe I just don't like being called that. Let's start with buddy first, m'kay?

[Blacklightning]

10 minutes ago, Azul said:

I'm using my experience in conjunction with a little abstract thought and deductive reasoning.

snip

Since I've never played as Mew Two, I assumed

You claim to be speaking from experience and yet have never even played the character before?

Ooooooooooookay.