Sonic Chronicles, Cannon or not?

[Blue Blood]

ShTH include Sonic as a side character. Yes, he's not playable there, but canon isn't about playable or not, it's about things to happen in the japanese Sonic game universe.

 

Being a spin-off isn't the same as being non-canon. What CSS is saying is that while ShTH is a spin-off game because it doesn't star Sonic in the lead, it still remains part of the main canon because it directly follows on from past events and sets foundations for the future. 

 

ShTH is a canon spin-off.

[Komodin]

How can I separate bad writer from narrowly limited good writer?

 

Well, you could start by not judging them on their use of some nebulous concept like "continuity" that even the previous writers couldn't get right half the time.

[Your Vest Friend]

Actually, I do have more to say!

 

Let's take into account the stage in Winter Olympics.

 

There's a good possibility that Nocturne was only included in Mario and Sonic Winter to promote the game. Remember that it was languishing in sales in Europe*, as well as being the most recent Sonic DS release (NOT Nintendo release; Black Knight came after), so promoting it in a game that has proven a hit in the EU territory couldn't have hurt. It's extremely telling when the event it cameos in is actually more of a Heroes-themed event than Chronicles (since all the action is in Heroes' special stage). 

 

 

*Not North America, it did on par with other Sonic DS games there. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

How can I separate bad writer from narrowly limited good writer?

If fact that good writer =/= bad one - even if narrowly limited - doesn't make it obvious enough to you, try getting it through that if they weren't narrowly limited their writing would make the previous stories, especially the atrocities that were ShTH and Sonic 06, look pathetic. Nevermind that even the previous writers screwed up the continuity worse than they ever could, and created the mess in the first place.

 

Sonic Team went out of their way to hire western writers who they thought could do better than previously written plots, but if the simplistic stories of Colors and Generations were to tell me anything, it's probably that they're holding them by a leash and not allowing them to do more. Unless they want to come by here and tell us otherwise.

 

ShTH include Sonic as a side character. Yes, he's not playable there, but canon isn't about playable or not, it's about things to happen in the japanese Sonic game universe.

What in the blue fuck are you even talking about?

 

You were talking about ShTH being a main game and not a spin-off, and I was telling you that it fits both categories. Your taking the train off the tracks at this point.

Edited June 16, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[smogfog]

You were talking about ShTH being a main game and not a spin-off, and I was telling you that it fits both categories. Your taking the train off the tracks at this point.

That's because I never thought game can be spin-off and canon at the same time...

If fact that good writer =/= bad one - even if narrowly limited - doesn't make it obvious enough to you, try getting it through that if they weren't narrowly limited their writing would make the previous stories, especially the atrocities that were ShTH and Sonic 06, look pathetic. 

Now it makes ShTH and 2006 looks even better IMO.

Edited June 16, 2013 by crystallize

[Your Vest Friend]

Spin-off does not refer to canonicity, it refers to a game with a different focus than what is regarded the main series, whether it's character or genre or something else. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Now it makes ShTH and 2006 looks even better IMO.

Two games that practically destroyed this series reputation look better than the ones that are actually rebuilding it. Yes that makes perfect sense.

[Dr. Detective]

I hope it isn't canon. Omega's calling everyone meatbags and Shadow's just a straight up arse to everybody. All those Archie comic references and that weird angle they went with Big. It's troublesome.

 

Oh yeah, and the ending. That thing that I hate.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Crystal Chaotix 3

[Your Vest Friend]

I like Shadow the arsehole, although it's true that it doesn't make sense for him to act to Rouge that way (something Rivals 2 did as well). Everything else...yeah. 

[Dr. Detective]

It's me just remembering Bioware releasing a statement saying "We're going to make you like Sonic's friends" and me just being there at the computer, tugging a noose made out of my dad's tie around my neck after seeing what they did to "emphasize" what could be done to make the characters likable in their eyes. 

[Chaos Incarnate]

In my opinion, if you wanted to find a proper place to put Chronicles in the timeline, place it before Unleashed.

 

Just think of it like this. After Eggman  managed to conquer the world at the end of Chronicles, Sonic and friends succesfully manage to defeat him, causing him to retreat into space and rebuild his fleet there. Sonic's allies eventually split up, believing Eggman to be defeated. Big the Cat goes back to god knows where with froggy, enjoying his lazy days at home, Knuckles goes back to Angel Island so he can continue guarding the master emerald, Cream goes back home to her mother Vanilla, and Shadow, Rogue, and Omega look for any remaining Eggman bases to destroy and liberate. After everyone has split up, Sonic and Tails discover Eggman is rebuilding his fleet, and go to stop him. Tails drops Sonic off inside Eggman's ship to destroy it, and takes off to fight in the tornado. That's how they got separated.

 

So yeah, I find it highly unlikely to be canon, but if it is, this is where I view it as taking place in the timeline. Sorry if I was going off on a tangent about its relation to Unleashed, but that's how I think it fits in relation to other games.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Knightofthewind417

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's me just remembering Bioware releasing a statement saying "We're going to make you like Sonic's friends" and me just being there at the computer, tugging a noose made out of my dad's tie around my neck after seeing what they did to "emphasize" what could be done to make the characters likable in their eyes.

Well outside the fanbase, where other gamers look at his friends in contempt, they apparently succeeded.

Although part of me wonders if they actually believed Bioware did a good job or if they were riding the game because it was Bioware.

[Dr. Detective]

Well outside the fanbase, where other gamers look at his friends in contempt, they apparently succeeded.

 

 

And that's based on what statistic?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And that's based on what statistic?

There is no statistic. I'm going off the reviews on the game that praised it.

[Uraraka]

Hey, I personally liked it alot, as a game.  However, I do not perticularly like it as a cannon game, because I feel like it ruins the characters. (Knuckles is not the last echidna and has apparent depression problems, Sonic and Amy have an odd relationship in that game, Rouge is a little too professional, Big is a little bit more stupid thann in the original games... it was really just Bioware's way of adding a "Julie-Su" like character to the game- Shade.) But it was, despite this, a good game. Just not as a Sonic game, I think it is more like the Sonic Comics, not cannon, but cool.

  Oh yeah, about how Eggman runs in that game..... umm, I think you should play SA2 In the chao garden as eggman, and then Sonic Chronicles, then you can see why I say that.  mannerisims make a person!

[batson]

Chronicles might mess with the continuity, but so does a lot of other spin-offs in the series without people declaring them unquestionably non-canon. So as far as I'm concerned, Chronicles rest in the same "probably canon, but with no effect on the main series" group as games like the Game Gear titles, Rivals, the Storybook games and so forth.

[FireBird75]

Chronicles might mess with the continuity, but so does a lot of other spin-offs in the series without people declaring them unquestionably non-canon. So as far as I'm concerned, Chronicles rest in the same "probably canon, but with no effect on the main series" group as games like the Game Gear titles, Rivals, the Storybook games and so forth.

The Rivals series and the Storybook games should be considered canon due to their direct references in the main series title, Sonic Generations.  Hell, Takashi Iizuka came up with the concept and wrote the stories for both Rivals games himself, which should further strengthen their continuity to the series canon.

 

As for Chronicles, Word Of God lists it as non-canon for reasons previously stated (according to TvTropes anyway).

The Game Gear titles are a little harder case due to no official word or source proving or disproving their canon to the main series.  Things get even further complicated with Fang the Sniper's reference in Sonic Generations. (Mighty & Ray from SegaSonic and Bean & Bark from Sonic the Fighters were also referenced, further adding to the confusion). 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

The Rivals series and the Storybook games should be considered canon due to their direct references in the main series title, Sonic Generations.  Hell, Takashi Iizuka came up with the concept and wrote the stories for both Rivals games himself, which should further strengthen their continuity to the series canon.

 

As for Chronicles, Word Of God lists it as non-canon for reasons previously stated (according to TvTropes anyway).

The Game Gear titles are a little harder case due to no official word or source proving or disproving their canon to the main series.  Things get even further complicated with Fang the Sniper's reference in Sonic Generations. (Mighty & Ray from SegaSonic and Bean & Bark from Sonic the Fighters were also referenced, further adding to the confusion). 

 I would say that the general events of Sonic Arcade, Fighters, and Triple Trouble happened, but certian details, or their place in the timeline is unknown, and the extent of what actualy happened, or what sonic thinks happened is unknown

[Your Vest Friend]

Meh, Sonic Rivals 2 is dubious. It's such a clusterfuck of a story.

[Milo]

Meh, Sonic Rivals 2 is dubious. It's such a clusterfuck of a story.

 

This could apply to the first game as well, if only because both games have Silver and Dr. Ivo Recolorbotnik Eggman Nega.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Yeow95

[Aquaslash]

Meh, Sonic Rivals 2 is dubious. It's such a clusterfuck of a story.

It was written by Iizuka himself, so it doesn't get much more canon than that.

 

Furthermore, he's gone on record to say that Nega's orgin story is what's presented in the Rivals series.,

[Blue Blood]

It was written by Iizuka himself, so it doesn't get much more canon than that.

 

Furthermore, he's gone on record to say that Nega's orgin story is what's presented in the Rivals series.,

 

Which only strikes me as odd, because Japanese fans never got to play the Rivals games (unless they've since been released digitally in Japan).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well considering Sonic sells poorly in Japan...

 

K, so I don't really know.