I Hope You Weren't Wanting A New F-Zero....

[Shade Vortex]

I've pretty much admitted that it's not the smartest move, but personally, I believe that SEGA would be the best home for the franchise. If there ever came a viable opportunity where it was financially feasible, I'd like it to happen. For the record, I wasn't saying that to mean it's a comparable situation: I just meant it the way I said it. From what Euromix said, he made it sound like it wasn't financially feasible for SEGA to buy new IPs, when they have proven to the contrary by spending loads to do just that.

 

Now, when it comes to F-Zero specifically, I will admit that is one of the worst IPs to spend loads on given the track record for its sales, like I pretty much said. But as I also indicated with the edit at the end of my post: "Doesn't change the fact that I feel SEGA would do the series the most justice. You can consider it my personal fantasy, a pipe dream that even I realize is unlikely and will probably never happen." I just thought I'd give my honest, albeit overly optimistic opinion on this matter, now that this has become a topic which was a viable opportunity to express it.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Shade Vortex

[MegasonicZX]

I've pretty much admitted that it's not the smartest move, but personally, I believe that SEGA would be the best home for the franchise. If there ever came a viable opportunity where it was financially feasible, I'd like it to happen. For the record, I wasn't saying that to mean it's a comparable situation: I just meant it the way I said it. From what Euromix said, he made it sound like it wasn't financially feasible for SEGA to buy new IPs, when they have proven to the contrary by spending loads to do just that.

 

Now, when it comes to F-Zero specifically, I will admit that is one of the worst IPs to spend loads on given the track record for its sales, like I pretty much said. But as I also indicated with the edit at the end of my post: "Doesn't change the fact that I feel SEGA would do the series the most justice. You can consider it my personal fantasy, a pipe dream that even I realize is unlikely and will probably never happen." I just thought I'd give my honest, albeit overly optimistic opinion on this matter, now that this has become a topic which was a viable opportunity to express it.

Yeah, I would more or less agree with this too. Bonus if they could get sumo along for the ride on this game.

[Chooch]

Because history often repeats itself.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. With a proper combination of good marketing, competent money management, and genuine effort put into the product to make it a quality release, there's absolutely no fucking reason why the game wouldn't sell well.

 

This isn't the GameCube era anymore. This is the day and age of Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Nintendo Direct broadcasts. It's ludicrous to completely dismiss the idea of a new entry in any Nintendo owned independent property here and now.

 

Miyamoto said some fucking stupid things he had no business saying. The reason why characters like Captain Falcon and Fox McCloud have ultimately been reduced to nothing but filler characters for Smash Bros. is because Miyamoto (and Nintendo as a whole) doesn't want to be fucking bothered.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Chooch

[Marcello]

before Nintendo crapped on its grave with a subpar 3DS remake of the one truly good game in the series that was completely overpriced and added absolutely nothing.

What exactly made it sub-par?

 

Star Fox was not seen at all throughout the entire seventh generation.

You mentioned Command a few sentences before this and yet you suddenly forgot it existed?

 

Also, F-Zero wasn't either, but HEY, apparently that's okay because making a new game that people actually want isn't a good idea. NOPE, instead let's make Generic Unfun Luck-Based Kart Racing Spinoff 8 and add an anti-gravity gimmick as if that changes freaking anything.

They are making the game people want, though.

[Milo]

What exactly made it sub-par?

 

I wouldn't call it subpar, but it's really bare-bones in terms of gameplay content. Aside from some tweaks here and there to optimize it for the 3DS (local multiplayer is now performed with multiple 3DS systems via local Wi-Fi, the 3DS's gyroscope controls are added as an extra gameplay option, etc.), it's essentially the same (amount of) content from the original 1997 N64 game. Online multiplayer really could had largely extended the game's lasting appeal, and I'm pretty sure the game ended up suffering in sales because of it. Although that's not to say some new content (new gameplay modes, new level layouts of pre-existing games of various difficulty, etc.) wouldn't had hurt either.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Gabe

[The Kid]

 

Miyamoto said some fucking stupid things he had no business saying. The reason why characters like Captain Falcon and Fox McCloud have ultimately been reduced to nothing but filler characters for Smash Bros. is because Miyamoto (and Nintendo as a whole) doesn't want to be fucking bothered.

 

 

He is probably one of the few people in existance who has every right to make it his business. It isn't like each respective series is dead in the water and there is no intention to ever touch any of them again. Frankly this "Miyamoto doesn't give a fuck about anything" attitude is irritating and is made worse by  people blasting every little thing he says out of proportion like he is the goddamn devil himself.

 

I've read his comments, and similar ones he made over the last couple years. It really isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be.

Edited June 21, 2013 by The Kid

[Carbo]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=599661

"We've been working on what we can do to increase our internal staff in a way that will allow us to have more projects going at the same time," Miyamoto said, when I had asked him about why some franchises like Wave Race and F-Zero seem trapped in past generations. Miyamoto noted that an increase in size will allow Nintendo to not only create new games but watch over older IPs that fans clearly still want.

[Rawpowered]

Bollocks there's nothing new you can do for a new F-Zero. There's plenty of things other racers have included which could bring new depths for F Zero.

 

1. Online Races. Having Online is a given. 30 player Singles races, Grand Prix, Hell, even the Battle Mode from X would be interesting in an Online environment.

2. Mission Mode. As well as a Story Mode like GX (though maybe tone it down a little, not too much I like a challenge) add a Mission Mode Like in Mario Kart DS and the Contest mode in MKWii or even World Tour in Transformed.

3. Track Creator. You could have a system like GX with credits which buy Customization parts, New Racers and now Track pieces which will give the game more reason to keep playing.

 

What really annoys about this whole thing is that Shigeru basically just said we can't have a new F-Zero because Nintendo can't think of anything new for it and yet they can make A New Mario Game with Cat Suits and says that's creative enough. 

[EuroMIX]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=599661

 

 

Can I just say, after loads of people pretty much crucified him in this thread; LOL.

 

Especially since he essentially said in that interview that Nintendo were looking to increase their teams and team sizes so more new games and less-focused upon IP's can have some development.

[Chooch]

That line was in the original article. I saw it. It doesn't make me feel any better and it doesn't suddenly make me forget the other lame excuses that were made.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Chooch

[Conando]

By a guy who has pretty much nothing to do with F-Zero anymore, so it shouldn't be taken nearly as serious as you are taking it. Like Carbo mentioned, Miyamoto has barely been intimately involved with anything in the past half a decade or so. Essentially only Mario Galaxy, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, and Pikmin 3. All games that DO have a lot added from their previous games.

Edited June 22, 2013 by King Of Awesome

[Sami]

At the same time, I can't help but find the guy's complete aversion to any sort of meaningful storytelling more than a little annoying.

 

The fact that Rosalina's story, what is in my opinion the only decent story in the entire main series (not counting the RPGs, which are fantastic), had to literally be snuck into the game from right under his nose by someone who actually cares about story is just sad.

 

I really respect the guy and appreciate what he's done for the entire industry (I'd go so far as to call him one of, if not the most important figure in video game history), but he's also rather old now, and I don't believe he should have such an insane level of control over everything. It stifles creativity from other people.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Discoid

[Marcello]

On the other hand, Pikmin 3 is looking great.

[Rinzler]

I don't entirely understand the 'stifling' creativity argument. It's like everyone forgets that LMDM and Pikim exist.

[Tornado]

He is probably one of the few people in existance who has every right to make it his business.

 

How do you figure? He can't be barely involved with the creation of new games for most of Nintendo's IPs as so many in this thread have asserted and still make it his business whether one of those IPs are justified having a new game.

 

 

 

Can I just say, after loads of people pretty much crucified him in this thread; LOL.

 

The only funny part is that you didn't bring it up before Carbo specifically linked it. My comments were made with full knowledge of that, because I don't consider the answers about expanding the internal development studios and the F-Zero answer directly linked; and I had already seen that bit in the original interview that is linked by Patticus in the OP.

 

 

Had you?

[Solid SOAP]

Miyamoto said some fucking stupid things he had no business saying. The reason why characters like Captain Falcon and Fox McCloud have ultimately been reduced to nothing but filler characters for Smash Bros. is because Miyamoto (and Nintendo as a whole) doesn't want to be fucking bothered.

 

The reason those franchises don't have games is because they don't sell well, period. Nintendo, first and foremost, is a business. Why would one of their first calls of duty for the Wii U be to bring back a franchise that has never exceeded selling a million copies? You're also making it out to be like Nintendo don't take risks and only focus on Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda. That couldn't be farther from the truth. From the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, Nintendo were or are bringing back 2D Mario, 2D Kirby, top down Zelda, Donkey Kong Country, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, and more. How many game franchises do you expect them to bring back?

 

F-Zero will eventually return, in one way or another, but now is not the time. I don't play F-Zero, but I'd certainly prefer the reputation of the franchise remain unscathed instead of Nintendo forcing out a crappy F-Zero knock-off that tarnishes its legacy like they did with Star Fox on GameCube just so they can try to both appeal to fans and those who haven't played it by introducing unnecessary elements.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Solid SOAP

[EuroMIX]

The only funny part is that you didn't bring it up before Carbo specifically linked it. My comments were made with full knowledge of that, because I don't consider the answers about expanding the internal development studios and the F-Zero answer directly linked; and I had already seen that bit in the original interview that is linked by Patticus in the OP.

 

 

Had you?

 

I retained a neutral position, so I really don't see why you're picking on me in particular. Me being aware of that information or not wouldn't have mattered as much because I wasn't one of the ones calling for Miyamoto's head over the original quote. Perhaps those people should have been more well-informed.

 

The fact that nobody brought it up sooner makes the whole intent of the thread rather disingenuous, exacerbated by the fact that the OP and yourself are both site staff.

Edited June 22, 2013 by EuroMIX

[MegasonicZX]

The reason those franchises don't have games is because they don't sell well, period. Nintendo, first and foremost, is a business. Why would one of their first calls of duty for the Wii U be to bring back a franchise that has never exceeded selling a million copies? You're also making it out to be like Nintendo don't take risks and only focus on Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda. That couldn't be farther from the truth. From the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, Nintendo were or are bringing back 2D Mario, 2D Kirby, top down Zelda, Donkey Kong Country, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, and more. How many game franchises do you expect them to bring back?

 

F-Zero will eventually return, in one way or another, but now is not the time. I don't play F-Zero, but I'd certainly prefer the reputation of the franchise remain unscathed instead of Nintendo forcing out a crappy F-Zero knock-off that tarnishes its legacy like they did with Star Fox on GameCube just so they can try to both appeal to fans and those who haven't played it by introducing unnecessary elements.

Bring back 2d mario, we've been having 2d mario's for the last few years. 

[Marcello]

Yeah, but there were 16 years between NSMB and SMW.

 

Also, they brought back Punch-Out and the very niche Sin & Punishment on the Wii, too.

[Solkia]

The reason those franchises don't have games is because they don't sell well, period. Nintendo, first and foremost, is a business. Why would one of their first calls of duty for the Wii U be to bring back a franchise that has never exceeded selling a million copies? You're also making it out to be like Nintendo don't take risks and only focus on Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda. That couldn't be farther from the truth. From the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, Nintendo were or are bringing back 2D Mario, 2D Kirby, top down Zelda, Donkey Kong Country, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, and more. How many game franchises do you expect them to bring back?

 

F-Zero will eventually return, in one way or another, but now is not the time. I don't play F-Zero, but I'd certainly prefer the reputation of the franchise remain unscathed instead of Nintendo forcing out a crappy F-Zero knock-off that tarnishes its legacy like they did with Star Fox on GameCube just so they can try to both appeal to fans and those who haven't played it by introducing unnecessary elements.

Describe eventually. We haven't had an F-Zero game with genuine effort put in it for 10 years. It's actually worse off than Star Fox at this point.

[Solid SOAP]

Bring back 2d mario, we've been having 2d mario's for the last few years. 

Yeah, and before New Super Mario Bros. there wasn't a proper 2D Mario game in a decade and a half. NSMB being milked now doesn't mean that 2D Mario fans didn't feel betrayed when the franchise's gameplay was made completely different for over 10 years. Despite the fact that 2D Mario and 3D Mario are both called "Mario", they're both very different beasts.

Describe eventually. We haven't had an F-Zero game with genuine effort put in it for 10 years. It's actually worse off than Star Fox at this point.

I don't know, and I'm in no position to say. Kid Icarus didn't exist for 25 years until Sakurai decided he wanted to make Uprising, so you really never know. Maybe it never will return, who knows. I just feel that now isn't the time for Nintendo to bring back F-Zero, the Wii U has too much on the line for them to be bringing back dead franchises that haven't shown any signs of being successful. 

 

What bothers me about some Nintendo fans is their mentality of "If Nintendo just made an F-Zero it would be easy money for them!" It's not... that easy, really. The franchise was brought back at least two times not counting portable or arcade efforts and it failed both times. Futuristic arcade racers aren't exactly the most popular of genres, and the Wii U needs franchises with huge pushing power to kick off its momentum before Nintendo start taking risks. Perhaps Nintendo's upcoming line-up is a bit too safe (Though I disagree, with Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, X, and Bayonetta 2 being some of their biggest titles), but F-Zero just isn't necessary now.

 

I hope they eventually make a new one, because I'd like to get into the series and think Nintendo have the talent and passion to make games in every genre they touch that are both charming, polished, and amazingly fun, but I don't expect F-Zero to come back any time soon.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Solid SOAP

[Tornado]

I retained a neutral position, so I really don't see why you're picking on me in particular.

I dunno. Perhaps it had to do with this thing that I quoted:

Can I just say, after loads of people pretty much crucified him in this thread; LOL.

 

Me being aware of that information or not wouldn't have mattered as much because I wasn't one of the ones calling for Miyamoto's head over the original quote.

No. You were just the one acting like the quote about the internal development studios from the same interview that we're on page 10 of a thread talking about was enough of a smoking gun that you can mock the ones arguing against Miyamoto over the issue; despite never bringing it up yourself at any point earlier.

 

The fact that nobody brought it up sooner makes the whole intent of the thread rather disingenuous, exacerbated by the fact that the OP and yourself are both site staff.

If you're going to call into question how I present my opinions about a topic in relation to my position as a staff member, you better have a much better argument than something you yourself ignored up until another staff member brought it up. I already stated that I hadn't said anything about that question in the interview because I didn't feel that the thing about the expansion to complement the answer he gave before, and Chooch mentioned something similar.

The interview wasn't some random thing hidden away on the depths of the internet and Patticus just quoted it with no source. It really isn't up to me if no one else read the full interview linked in the OP and brought up that part as a rebuttal to the sentiment in the OP, even when people had raised arguments that were somewhat similar to what Miyamoto himself said in the excerpt Carbo posted above.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Tornado

[TrueBlue]

At the same time, I can't help but find the guy's complete aversion to any sort of meaningful storytelling more than a little annoying.

 

The fact that Rosalina's story, what is in my opinion the only decent story in the entire main series (not counting the RPGs, which are fantastic), had to literally be snuck into the game from right under his nose by someone who actually cares about story is just sad.

 

I really respect the guy and appreciate what he's done for the entire industry (I'd go so far as to call him one of, if not the most important figure in video game history), but he's also rather old now, and I don't believe he should have such an insane level of control over everything. It stifles creativity from other people.

 

I don't think Miyamoto is completely averse to it as such. He was the producer for Paper Mario: TTYD, which had the best story in the series. I know people are going to bring up Sticker Star, but I remember it being said that he vetoed a heavier emphasis on story in response to some survey results. I dunno.

[EuroMIX]

Tornado, my "LOL" was more amusement that that particular quote was never brought up, leading the thread to where it did.

 

Right now your responses to me sound like blame-shifting, due to your own claim at reading it, but neither you nor the original mod ever bringing it up which would have been highly useful given the way the thread was presented and the fact that emotions were clearly running high and discussions were becoming more heated as people applied their own take on the original quote.

Edited June 23, 2013 by EuroMIX

[Tornado]

Right now your responses to me sound like blame-shifting, due to your own claim at reading it, but neither you nor the original mod ever bringing it up which would have been highly useful given the way the thread was presented and the fact that emotions were clearly running high and discussions were becoming more heated as people applied their own take on the original quote.

Blame shifting, huh?

 

The entire interview is linked to in the OP. Patticus quoted the part that he disagreed with, and wrote the OP in response to that. People are bringing up a wide variety of arguments to defend Miyamoto's statement that was quoted in the OP; from sales success of the franchise to Nintendo's finances to the Wii U's current market penetration; all the while never bringing up the final part of the interview which could be argued to defend the Miyamoto quote in question, meaning they either didn't read the entire interview or they didn't feel the final question fit their arguments. My personal beliefs are that Miyamoto's statement's are absurd considering how Nintendo has handled the franchise in the past; from how the most successful and highest regarded entry was outsourced to Nintendo needing to diversify their Wii U output to prevent the whole thing being a repeat of the Gamecube. I also don't think the final question applies, because the answer contradicts

 

 

So answer me this: I am either supposed to construct the arguments of the people arguing against me for them, because a chance exists that they either hadn't thought of the idea that the final answer in the interview defends his earlier statement (even though I don't think it does, because it almost contradicts the earlier one by implying that F-Zero would be worth doing if some gimmick was applied or if Nintendo had a bunch of unused development capacity even though it's rather difficult to link the two concepts; and I disagree with the premise that Nintendo needs to develop such a game in house in the first place entirely) or didn't agree with it themselves; or I am supposed to assume that the people who are passionately arguing against me haven't read the actual interview the topic is about and inform them of all of the details while arguing against them?