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Sonic CD comes after Sonic 2?


iDEATH
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Sorry if this has been brought up before, it might not be worth it's own topic...but anyway.

 

We all know about the discussions about whether Sonic CD comes before or after Sonic 2. The majority of people now seem to think it comes before, (usuallu because Tails isn't in it and the  fact both were supposedly developed at the same time, CD games just taking longer to make etc. etc.)

 

But today I found this,

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http://www.vgfacts.com/game/soniccd/

 

I don't know what magazine it came from but I've never seen it before. Apparently Sonic CD was originally going to be a Mega CD release of Sonic 2 but after the MD game was released they changed the project to what would become Sonic CD.

This shoots down the "developed at the same time" theory. Seeing as this means the game was made after Sonic 2 I'd say it means that the game also takes place after Sonic 2 also (therefore after the death egg saga)

 

Like I said, sorry if this is old news but I'd never heard it before.

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Spin Attaxx

Kinda makes sense - Mecha Sonic seems like an early model of Metal Sonic.

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Kinda makes sense - Mecha Sonic seems like an early model of Metal Sonic.

 

That's always been what I thought too, Sonic 2 has silver sonic, he gets improved (mecha) in S3&K then perfected for Sonic CD

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This is Retro's take on CD's development.

 

http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD

 

"Although Yuji Naka and Hirokazu Yasuhara had gone to San Francisco to help mentor the newly-hired employees of the Sega Technical Institute and lead the development of Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic creator Naoto Ohshima chose to stay behind in his native Japan, ready for his next assignment. Meanwhile, Sega of Japan, in preparation of the launch of their console add-on the Maga CD, knew they wanted some sort of Sonic the Hedgehog title on the console to headline its existence, hoping its premier franchise would cause the new technology to be a success. At first, the company considered simply to develop an enhanced version of either the original Sonic the Hedgehog or of the upcoming Sonic 2, a practice that would shape much of the Mega CD library in the years that followed. For one reason or another, however, it was decided that instead of porting an existing title, a new entry in the Sonic series would be developed from the ground up, which could take full advantage of the capabilities of the Mega CD.

 

Once the decision was made, it didn't take long for Sega to involve Naoto Ohshima, making him the Director of the project and giving him free reign. Not wanting to make a game that was essentially the same as Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Ohshima contacted Yuji Naka and other members of the Sega Technical Institute during the initial planning stages, where both teams exchanged information about what the other wanted to do. It was during these early moments that Sonic CD started to take shape, Hiroyuki Kawaguchi becoming the art director and helping to shape the worlds of the game. Although comparisons can be made between the levels in the first Sonic the Hedgehog and its CD sequel, Kawaguchi made sure to make them visually stunning, standing out from anything that had yet been seen in the franchise.

 

Although the Sonic 2 team briefly considered the idea of time travel as a play mechanic, Ohshima fully embraced the concept, being in love with the idea of having the level Sonic was running in to suddenly change around him, the player instantly being warped to a different place. When time came to program the "Time Warp" sequences, however, the lead programmer  Matsuhide Mizoguchi claimed that it was impossible to do such a thing on the hardware, and instead a "loading sequence" had to be created, the brief moment where Sonic can be seen flying through a green background with stars encircling him. Though Ohshima kept on pushing the programming team to find a way to circumvent this added screen (wanting the time travel to more resemble the instantaneous movement in Back to the Future), the programmers could not find a way to modify Naka's original code to create the desired effect. Years later, when Ohshima reflected back, he felt more than confident that if Naka had been the chief programmer on Sonic CD that he would have been able to find a solution, certain in his skills when it came to developing code.

 

Another element that Ohshima wanted to include was the expansion of Sonic's cast of characters, wanting to provide not only a new protagonist but an enemy that could be marketed on the same level as Dr Eggman. The game's visual designer, Kazuyuki Hoshino, was tasked with creating the designs of these two new characters for the game. The first of these, Amy Rose, was actually inspired by a character of the same name being used in the manga Sonic the Hedgehog. Wanting a twist on the standard kidnapping/romance scenario that had been overused in the gaming world, Amy was meant to be the one infatuated with Sonic, the blue hedgehog never showing any emotion back at her, his going to rescue her simply being another task to foil Eggman. The second new face in the game, Metal Sonic, was designed to be a sleek mechanical interpretation of the lead character, as opposed to the clunky Mecha Sonic that was drawn up for Sonic the Hedgehog 2. It may be because of this simple yet catching design, as well as his extensive use in advertising materials for the title, that has caused this version of a robot Sonic to outlast the others."

Edited by -Bender-
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That's always been what I thought too, Sonic 2 has silver sonic, he gets improved (mecha) in S3&K then perfected for Sonic CD

 

If Sonic 4 is to be believed, and Sonic CD takes BEFORE Sonic 3 (which I believe it does), then Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic cannot be the same robot, because Metal was still wrecked on Little Planet during the events of Sonic 3&K.

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I never considered Sonic CD to take place before Sonic 2.  The lack of Tails leads me to conclude not that the events came before Sonic meeting Tails, but that Tails wasn't involved.  I figured that chances are they didn't know Tails would explode with popularity as he did and as such didn't feel the the need to add him when developing the game.  Also, I saw "Mecha Sonic" as an early prototype of Metal Sonic.  It seems a little weird to me that Robotnik would make a well-built and well-polished android like Metal Sonic and then downgrade to a bunch of scrap metal that isn't as powerful.

Edited by Akito
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Spin Attaxx

That's always been what I thought too, Sonic 2 has silver sonic, he gets improved (mecha) in S3&K then perfected for Sonic CD

When I say "early model", I mean prototype. Not an early incarnation of the same guy.

 

Then again, it's possible Mecha was built as a temporary Metal Sonic after CD, and would be replaced once Metal was recovered.

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If Sonic 4 is to be believed, and Sonic CD takes BEFORE Sonic 3 (which I believe it does), then Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic cannot be the same robot, because Metal was still wrecked on Little Planet during the events of Sonic 3&K.

 

I don't think they were the same robot, sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

Is there anything in the games that says it can't go like this?:

 

S2 - S3&K (Sonic beats mecha Sonic, Robotnik builds new version, Metal) - Sonic CD (Sonic beats Metal) - Sonic 4 (robotnik decides to combine both plans, death egg and little planet, rubuilds metal)

Edited by Jake Bird
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Interesting to know... I had the old Sonic 2 guide which showed some screenshots and a few sneak previews of Sonic CD, I seem to remember the guide talked about the two games as though were developed at the same time just by different teams.

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I always thought that CD was before Sonic 2. But now I'm starting to think that it is after the death egg saga and before Sonic 4. It does make perfect sense (apart from how metal is in a bad Future Stardust Speedway when the canon ending is the Good Future for all zones!)

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Soooo according to what I read from this topic. The time line for the classic games are:

 

S1>S2>SCD>S3&K>S4.

 

Or

 

S1>S2>S3&K>SCD>S4

 

Personally the fact that the SCD model looks and feels more like a direct sequel to S1 than S2 and that Tails is missing from the game. I always thought the order was...

 

S1>SCD>S2>S3&K>S4.

 

But I guess I could see SCD taking place after S3&K. That would make sense. 

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Sonic CD was developed at the same time as Sonic 2. CD could have been released before Sonic 2, but SEGA wanted to release the numerical sequel first. So why on earth would Sonic CD take place after S3&K? I know SEGA gave that impression when the re-release of CD was being promoted, but that is just bullshit.

 

It goes; Sonic 1, CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K. Makes perfect sense.

 

Sonic 1 and CD - Sonic alone. In CD, Sonic defeats Metal Sonic. 

Sonic 2 - with Tails. Sonic defeats Silver Sonic (also known as Mecha Sonic - Sonic's new doppleganger) and Robotnik.

Sonic 3&K - Sonic and Tails defeat an improved version of Mecha Sonic and defeat Robotnik again, saving floating island.

 

I know it's open to interpretation, but this makes sense.

Edited by -Bender-
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Also there's that hidden picture of Tails saying "see you next game"?

 

Isn't "next game' meant to be Sonic 2?

Edited by MamboCat
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Also there's that hidden picture of Tails saying "see you next game"?

 

I think that picture actually refers to Sonic drift (if not Sonic 2).

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I for one would like to know what Sonic CD was like at the time of Sonic 2's launch, before the game was completely rebuilt. Was it just Sonic 2? Was it Sonic 2 with the time travel stuff they wanted? Were zones any different? It's a shame that we may never know.

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Also there's that hidden picture of Tails saying "see you next game"?

 

Isn't "next game' meant to be Sonic 2?

I'm going to assume Sega was referring to Sonic Drift.

Why else would that vehicle be there?

Edited by McGroose
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Damn, I would've never imagined that the Sonic franchise started out so poorly in its domestic economy. That is really sad and shocking to hear. sad.png

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Also there's that hidden picture of Tails saying "see you next game"?

 

Isn't "next game' meant to be Sonic 2?

As others have stated, I'm fairly positive that it refers to Sonic Drift.  The vehicle and the fact that it seems to have a more developed and finalized design lead me with little reason to believe otherwise.

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Sonic 2 originally had CD's time travel gimmick right? How differently would Sonic 2 have implemented that? Would it still have worked with a system of past - present - Good/Bad future, or was it just past, present, and future? I know Wood Zone was supposed to be some sort of past version of Metropolis zone, but that's about it. Wasn't Hidden Palace at one point supposed to be a past version of Mystic Cave Zone?

Edited by McGroose
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I've always preferred the idea that the order goes Sonic 1, 2, 3K, and then CD and Chaotix take place at the same time...I know Chaotix is not considered canon, but...does it really matter?

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NocturnalTwilight

This is totally a fact, it goes 

 

Sonic 1 -> Sonic 2 -> Sonic CD -> Sonic 3 -> (etc)

 

By this, it would be technically correct that Amy was introduced before Knuckles.

 

Mind blowing, ain't it? 

 

Still, I don't think of it as a big deal or anything, just a fun fact.

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Sonic CD can't fit between Sonic 2 and Sonic 3, because the events of the former lead directly into the events of the latter (not with the same immediacy as Sonic 3 -> S&K, but still pretty much spelled out that nothing happened between the two games).

 

 

And Amy preceded Knuckles anyway, since Sonic CD was released before Sonic 3.

Edited by Tornado
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It's stated in the Japanese manual of Sonic 3 that Sonic 3 takes place 'many months after' Sonic 2. There's plenty of time for Sonic CD to happen.

 

...Or After the Sequel, but that's not a real thing.

 

However, I'm pretty sure it's been stated that Sonic CD's been retconned into after 3&K to better fit with Sonic 4 Episode 2. I dunno, it's anyone's guess, I think.

Edited by Hedgehog Wright (CoN)
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