Does Tails need to be the sidekick anymore?

[Kuzu]

So I was discussing Tails with a friend of mine on another forum and his character throughout the series and how its changed over time. One subject that he brought to my attention was how he felt Tails` role as sidekick was holding him back as a character. 

 

 

Now how did he come to this conclusion? Well before Sonic Adventure Tails was more or less just a tagalong. He followed Sonic everywhere in an attempt to try and be of use and looked up to Sonic greatly and aspired to be like him. Then came Sonic Adventure where he had his own story arc which resulted in him realizing that he can accomplish great feats without Sonic needing to hold his hand. This was carried onto Sonic Adventure 2 where he's the one mostly calling the shots on the hero's side, he's so effective that when Sonic looks like he's seemingly going to die, he entrusts Tails to finish up the job they started. So at this point, Tails has not only proven himself a great hero in his own right but a worthy successor should anything happen to Sonic. Then Heroes sticks him right back into the dependent sidekick role and acted like none of that happened. Then for years they tried to make him both independent as a character but at the same time still play sidekick to Sonic resulting in Tails` only contributions to the series being whatever new gadget Sonic needed at the time and not only never having any adventures of his own but not even being apart of the action with Sonic.

 

This results in Colors & Generations which basically spells out how useless Tails has become in the grand scheme of things. In former, the game tries to make it seem like Tails contributed by being a translator for the wisp so Sonic would know what he had to do...except that the translator hardly ever worked aside from making dumb nonsensical jokes, Sonic was already destroying generators before Tails even told him that's what he had to do, and probably the biggest kick in the balls is that the entire game is rendered moot after the first  boss on account of a piece of debris sabotaging the Mind control ray. So if for any unexplained reason, Sonic & Tails just decided to leave the park after the first world, they would have won anyway. So Sonic was completely right when he said Tails didn't do shit because he really didn't, but the game sure as hell tries to convince you otherwise. In Generations, he's there...yea.

 

 

So yes, Tails is currently in a limbo or sorts as a character. Its obvious Sega are keeping him as a sidekick for the sake of nostalgia but at the same time are trying to find some use for him to call back to his development from Sonic Adventure. So what do you think? Should Tails be able to branch off as his own character based on his character arc in Adventure, or should they just keep him as the sidekick to Sonic's adventures.

[Diogenes]

What would he be doing if he wasn't Sonic's sidekick? What is being Sonic's sidekick preventing him from doing?

Honestly I can't imagine Tails not being Sonic's sidekick. It's the role he's always played. And I don't think the role is actually restricting him in any significant way. He's just been written and used shittily, like...basically everyone. If you think he's been spending too much time on the sidelines and not enough busting robots, that can be solved trivially, and is perfectly in line with him being a sidekick. If you're okay with him being an NPC but you want his actions to have more weight, likewise, trivially solvable, and still in line with being a sidekick. There's nothing I can imagine Tails doing that doesn't jive with him being the Robin to Sonic's Batman.

[Kuzu]

What would he be doing if he wasn't Sonic's sidekick?

Having his own adventures? Solving the plot his own way parallel to Sonic?

 

 

What is being Sonic's sidekick preventing him from doing?

Well for one, it kinda undermines the whole independent character arc he wen through in Sonic Adventure. How can a character be independent yet still play second fiddle to someone else? Even Dick Grayson distanced himself from Batman eventually, and it didn't prevent him from teaming up with him when it was needed.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Diogenes]

Having his own adventures? Solving the plot his own way parallel to Sonic?

Being a sidekick doesn't mean you're contractually bound to never be more than 5 feet from your "superior". Being Sonic's sidekick sure as hell didn't prevent him from building the Tornado 2 to chase the Egg Carrier or fighting Eggman alone in SA, or breaking Sonic out of prison, tracking down the president's limo, busting into both Eggman's pyramid base and the ARK's defenses, and coming up with a plan to destroy the Eclipse Cannon in SA2.

Well for one, it kinda undermines the whole independent character arc he wen through in Sonic Adventure. How can a character be independent yet still play second fiddle to someone else?

Becoming more independent doesn't mean not working with other people. What Tails learned was self-confidence and how to be a hero with his own strength (rather than just copying Sonic), and he gained respect both from the people he's saved and from Sonic. None of that means he can't continue working with Sonic...and why wouldn't he?

[Marcello]

I think Tails should still be around Sonic most of the time, but he should also be able to go off on his own and get things done.

 

 

At the very least, he should be more than exposition.

[Kuzu]

Being a sidekick doesn't mean you're contractually bound to never be more than 5 feet from your "superior". Being Sonic's sidekick sure as hell didn't prevent him from building the Tornado 2 to chase the Egg Carrier or fighting Eggman alone in SA, or breaking Sonic out of prison, tracking down the president's limo, busting into both Eggman's pyramid base and the ARK's defenses, and coming up with a plan to destroy the Eclipse Cannon in SA2.

 

Yes, and those are accomplishments he was able to do without Sonic's help...sooooo? The very definition of a sidekick is providing support for another, usually more important hero.

 

 I never said Tails can't be a sidekick, but at this point, does he really have to be? IS he not allowed to have his own stories from time to time instead of just sharing Sonic's?

 

Becoming more independent doesn't mean not working with other people. What Tails learned was self-confidence and how to be a hero with his own strength (rather than just copying Sonic), and he gained respect both from the people he's saved and from Sonic. None of that means he can't continue working with Sonic...and why wouldn't he?

I never said that he shouldn't help out Sonic, but that the way its currently being presented he doesn't help out at all and just mostly hides behind Sonic while he's taking care of shit.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Anything at this point would be marginally more interesting than the current formula of "Sonic goes God Mode and saves the day while everyone else remains a useless cheerleader that fans and critics use as scapegoats for their stupidity unless they are the Classic characters" in my opinion.

[Diogenes]

Yes, and those are accomplishments he was able to do without Sonic's help...sooooo?

So being Sonic's sidekick isn't the problem. Anything good that Tails has done, any appearance he's had where he's been portrayed well (except maybe Tails' Adventure, if you care about it), is one where he's been Sonic's sidekick. It's never prevented him from doing important things whether he's doing them alongside Sonic or when he's temporarily on his own.

Tails is shitty now for reasons completely unrelated to being Sonic's sidekick.

[Kuzu]

So being Sonic's sidekick isn't the problem. Anything good that Tails has done, any appearance he's had where he's been portrayed well (except maybe Tails' Adventure, if you care about it), is one where he's been Sonic's sidekick. It's never prevented him from doing important things whether he's doing them alongside Sonic or when he's temporarily on his own.

Tails is shitty now for reasons completely unrelated to being Sonic's sidekick.

 

If he's on his own, then he's not really playing sidekick to Sonic isn't he? The second you have Tails go on his own for whatever reason, he's no longer "the sidekick" but a hero in his own right.

[Soniman]

I don't see how he didn't do anything in Colors or didn't contribute anything of worth :u...

 

Ignoring the whole first boss fiasco because that has nothing to do with Tails' usefulness. Tails giving Sonic the ability to talk to the wisps (as flawed as it was) DID serve a purpose, it allowed them to talk to Yacker and the other wisps (which showed that they were intelligent), and allowed them to understand the full scope of how Eggman did what he did (with the tractor beams and what not) and it goes well beyong Sonic simply busting up robots and calling it a day. 

 

As for the topic at hand, no Tails shouldn't distance himself from Sonic and I think he has a fine roll in support. Maybe something like SA2 where he comes up with some of the plans and does things on his own concurrent with the main plot(but then he'd have to be playable in some form), but to go solo completely? Nah.

 

Tails is shitty now for reasons completely unrelated to being Sonic's sidekick. 

Those reasons being? I genuinely would like to know.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

Ignoring the whole first boss fiasco because that has nothing to do with Tails' usefulness.

The reason Eggman's mind control ray failed was because of something that happened from the first boss. The ray was going to fail whether Tails there or not, so how does that have no effect on his usefulness when the entire plot of the game is undermined by that point?

 

 

 

 

Tails giving Sonic the ability to talk to the wisps (as flawed as it was) DID serve a purpose, it allowed them to talk to Yacker and the other wisps (which showed that they were intelligent), and allowed them to understand the full scope of how Eggman did what he did (with the tractor beams and what not) and it goes well beyong Sonic simply busting up robots and calling it a day

 

 How does it go well beyond Sonic smashing robots when that's exactly what solved the plot in the first place? You're implying that Tails presence was the reason Sonic was able to win when I just pointed out Sonic was already destroying generators before Tails told him what he had to do. So how did Tails help in anyway when his only contribution was rendered moot when Sonic was already doing it anyway?

[Diogenes]

You don't suddenly stop being a sidekick just because you aren't right next to the hero. Tails didn't stop being Sonic's sidekick when they got separated after SA's Sky Chase and he finished the Tornado 2. He didn't stop being his sidekick when he got Amy off the Egg Carrier and then confronted Eggman alone. He didn't stop when Sonic was in jail and he went to save him.

He did not stop being Sonic's sidekick whenever he did something other than Sonic 2 styled follow-the-leader. I repeat, everything that he's ever done that was any good, he's done while still being Sonic's sidekick, so that, naturally, does not prevent him from doing good things now or in the future.

 

Those reasons being? I genuinely would like to know.

They're no longer making him an active fighter, and they're writing watered-down stories where he's not of much use as a support character.

[RK64]

Tails has and will always be Sonics right hand man, but even though he's a sidekick, he doesn't act like one anymore.  Remember in the games before Colors, he looked up to Sonic as a role model and always stuck by him.  In Colors (and to a lesser extent Generations) he was just, there.  He basically just went along so he can just hang out with Sonic like friends normally do.  In fact, Colors was the first time we saw Sonic and Tails relationship be realized; he respects sonic and knows he will save the day, so he feels he doesn't have to do much to help him out, and this is also the reason why he was sarcastic with Sonic through out the game. 

 

He is a sidekick, but he isn't a blant one like in the Classic or Adventure days.

[Kuzu]

 

You don't suddenly stop being a sidekick just because you aren't right next to the hero. Tails didn't stop being Sonic's sidekick when they got separated after SA's Sky Chase and he finished the Tornado 2. He didn't stop being his sidekick when he got Amy off the Egg Carrier and then confronted Eggman alone. He didn't stop when Sonic was in jail and he went to save him.

He did not stop being Sonic's sidekick whenever he did something other than Sonic 2 styled follow-the-leader. I repeat, everything that he's ever done that was any good, he's done while still being Sonic's sidekick, so that, naturally, does not prevent him from doing good things now or in the future.

 

 

So when do you stop being a sidekick and start becoming your own man then, because it sounds like that a sidekick is always a sidekick no matter what accomplishments they've gotten on their own without their mentor's help. So at what point does a character stop being a sidekick?

[Soniman]

The reason Eggman's mind control ray failed was because of something that happened from the first boss. The ray was going to fail whether Tails there or not, so how does that have no effect on his usefulness when the entire plot of the game is undermined by that point?

 

By that logic, should we just assume Sonic was useless as well? Because technically he could have just sat on his ass the entire game and  just wait for the mind control ray to explode on its own. 

 

 

 

So how did Tails help in anyway when his only contribution was rendered moot when Sonic was already doing it anyway?

 

 

Sonic couldn't talk to the Wisps. What I'm saying is Sonic could just did what he do best and smash robots wily nilly, but would he know the full scope behind the plot? Nope. Would he have realized that the Wisps had a precious hyper-go-on energy? No.Would he have realized that the planets were dragged across the universe and away from their home galaxy or whatever? No.

 

 

 

 

They're no longer making him an active fighter, and they're writing watered-down stories where he's not of much use as a support character. 

 

All right, fair enough. Don't really think that makes him an actively "shit" character though.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Soniman

[KHCast]

Robin does his own shit from time to time. Guess in those instances he's not Batmans sidekick.

[Diogenes]

So when do you stop being a sidekick and start becoming your own man then, because it sounds like that a sidekick is always a sidekick no matter what accomplishments they've gotten on their own without their mentor's help. So at what point does a character stop being a sidekick?

I dunno, when they grow up, or when the hero dies/retires, things that will literally never happen in this series?

I mean, yeah, Tails could decide to strike out on his own and go have all sorts of solo adventures, but,

1. This just means we'd be seeing less of him, because this is still the Sonic series and it's still going to focus on him, and we ain't going to get a Tails-based spinoff series any time soon.

2. I can't think of any in-character reason for him to do so; he's hanging out and adventuring with his best friend and hero and I don't know why he'd ever stop.

3. It still isn't why he's been crappy lately; having him go on his own isn't going to suddenly inspire them to write him better.

[Kuzu]

By that logic, should we just assume Sonic was useless as well? Because technically he could have just sat on his ass the entire game and  just wait for the mind control ray to explode on its own.

Exactly. That's the point I was making, the entire plot is completely pointless after the first boss.

 

 

 

Sonic couldn't talk to the Wisps. What I'm saying is Sonic could just did what he do best and smash robots wily nilly, but would he know the full scope behind the plot? Nope. Would he have realized that the Wisps had a precious hyper-go-on energy? No.Would he have realized that the planets were dragged across the universe and away from their home galaxy or whatever? No.

...Except none of that has no direct effect on the plot aside from exposition. Sonic would have still been able to use the Wisp even if he didn't know where their power source came from. Are you really trying to argue that the plot needed exposition to work?

[Diogenes]

Are you really trying to argue that the plot needed exposition to work?

Having Sonic run around and smash shit without having any idea what it did would make for an even less compelling plot than what we got.

[Soniman]

Exactly. That's the point I was making, the entire plot is completely pointless after the first boss.

 

 

Except there was still Wisps to freed, planets to be saved, and black holes to stop, so no it doesn't.

 

 

 

 ...Except none of that has no direct effect on the plot aside from exposition. Sonic would have still been able to use the Wisp even if he didn't know where their power source came from. Are you really trying to argue that the plot needed exposition to work? 

 

 

Whether direct or indirect it still served a use and provided a better understanding of the  situation at hand as a whole, so at the end of the day I though Tails contributed a decent amount.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

Robin does his own shit from time to time. Guess in those instances he's not Batmans sidekick.

 

So I guess Nightwing just never happened then huh. Or Red Hood. Because they're obviously still sidekicks to Batman.

 

I dunno, when they grow up, or when the hero dies/retires, things that will literally never happen in this series?

I mean, yeah, Tails could decide to strike out on his own and go have all sorts of solo adventures, but,

1. This just means we'd be seeing less of him, because this is still the Sonic series and it's still going to focus on him, and we ain't going to get a Tails-based spinoff series any time soon.

2. I can't think of any in-character reason for him to do so; he's hanging out and adventuring with his best friend and hero and I don't know why he'd ever stop.

3. It still isn't why he's been crappy lately; having him go on his own isn't going to suddenly inspire them to write him better.

I'm not saying Tails should completely break it off with Sonic but for the series to stop acting like he needs to be by Sonic's side all of the time. I don't want him to be a "sidekick" a mere helper but a hero on equal terms with Sonic. I want the two of them to accomplish things in the plot separately then meet together to compare notes and shit. Heck, you can make it similar to the Adventure series and I'd satisfied because I wouldn't even call Tails a sidekick there, or least in the last half of the first game and definitely not the second.

[Diogenes]

Heck, you can make it similar to the Adventure series and I'd satisfied because I wouldn't even call Tails a sidekick there, or least in the last half of the first game and definitely not the second.

So this entire mess is down to you quibbling over the definition of "sidekick", good to know.

[KHCast]

So I guess Nightwing just never happened then huh. Or Red Hood. Because they're obviously still sidekicks to Batman.  

ROBIN is still Batmans sidekick. I'm mainly referring to him, not his alter ego's. ROBIN has still done stuff on his own, without the aid of batman.(and no, I am not counting TT. I'm referring to the batman comics and universe.)

[Kuzu]

Having Sonic run around and smash shit without having any idea what it did would make for an even less compelling plot than what we got.

 

Yea, but in Colors` case its literally explaining the thing that we were already doing.

 

 

Except there was still Wisps to freed, planets to be saved, and black holes to stop, so no it doesn't.

So you're telling me that the park wouldn't have blown up because of the arm in the mind control ray, thereby freeing the planets and the Wisp alongside it huh.

 

 

 

Whether direct or indirect it still served a use and it provided a better understand of the situation at hand as a whole, so at the end of the day I though Tails contributed a decent amount.

If a character's role in the plot wasn't really needed or could be taken out without much consequence...then they probably aren't very useful. But whatever, you said your point and I said mine.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Soniman]

 

 

So you're telling me that the park wouldn't have blown up because of the arm in the mind control ray, thereby freeing the planets and the Wisp alongside it huh.

 

No, because I'm pretty sure with it being a black hole, it would have just killed and everything and everyone. I don't imagine there being a positive outcome coming from it.