Super Sawnik

[Cortez]

Its common knowledge that nowadays Super Sonic is reserved for the final boss fight, thats fine and all but something since SA2 (or technically S3K) has really annoyed me regarding Super Sonic. I expect the final boss fight in any game to be a test of all the skills I've learnt throughout the course of the game, not a brand new play style that I've had no chance to get used to. Sonic Adventure's Super Sonic gameplay was perfect, it was identical Sonic's with the ring counter added for the purpose of adding pressure. It shouldn't need to anything more than that, it'd be understandable if we had a chance to play as Super Sonic prior to the final boss fight and therefore were able to get to grips with a different play style but when we're thrown in the deep end and expected to be able to know the controls for a whole new play style STRAIGHT AWAY its just not right. Especially if the final boss fight is as bastardised as Unleashed where if you get game over you have another fuckload of boss battles to take care of before you can get another shot at the final boss. What do you guys think about the drastic change in Super form mechanics to regular gameplay mechanics? (Excuse the lack of paragraphs, I'm STILL stuck with a phone browser ;_

[Rusty Spy]

Super Sonic's gameplay wasn't all that different from regular gameplay, most of the time it used just slightly different controls that were usually minor variants of normal controls functions.

SA1- just run and jump,

SA2- you use a homing attack to hit the boss,

Heroes- upgraded version of all your regular controls, aka, Badical!

ShTH- you use a jump dash to dash forward, and you shoot Chaos Spear like the guns throughout the game,

06- similar to Heroes, only not as good,

Secret Rings- shake to use Speed Break and Time Stop just like in normal gameplay,

Black Knight- same as normal gameplay, only slightly more responsive controls, IMO.

Unleashed and the 2D games were the only times where Super Sonic's gameplay was drastically different from normal gameplay.

[Aquaslash]

I actually agree with you on this. Super Sonic has always been an ENHANCEMENT, not a whole new character altogether.

Actually, TBH, I disapprove of the use of Super States for the final boss. Sonic 2 did it best. You got super as soon as you got all the emeralds, but there were no Rings in the final boss chamber.

They ought to go back to this

[Blacklightning]

Personally, I'd much rather see Super Sonic unlocked from the start for once, or at least close enough to it that it doesn't matter. In the same sense as DMC's Devil Trigger, you could use it in a pinch whenever you find yourself in an impossibly difficult fight, or maybe even as an additonal way to find shortcuts via use of increased speed and/or hover/flight capabilities. As for the moveset itself, it need only control similarly to Sonic in the same sense that Brawl characters control similarly to each other - when you know the basics for one, you know the basics for all of them, but they still have their own unqiue strengths to put to good use. Even if Super Sonic is just Sonic with batshit over-the-top versions of his existing moves, that's enough for me. I just don't want to revert back to the "Speed + Invincibiliy + Yellow = Super" stereotype again.

Actually, TBH, I disapprove of the use of Super States for the final boss. Sonic 2 did it best. You got super as soon as you got all the emeralds, but there were no Rings in the final boss chamber.

They ought to go back to this

I felt this is pretty much what Sonic Battle did, minus the Super form. Sure, you didn't exactly die in one hit but if

Emerl

caught you in a combo, you were usually instantly fucked. That was a challenge, and by fuck it's one of my favourite bosses in the whole franchise.

[Diogenes]

I expect the final boss fight in any game to be a test of all the skills I've learnt throughout the course of the game, not a brand new play style that I've had no chance to get used to.

The way I see it, the "real", in terms of gameplay, final boss is actually the second-to-last boss, and that the chronological final boss is more of a bonus boss that's still part of the story. The Egg Viper, the Egg Emperor, the big pirate robot in SRA...these are the ones that challenge the skills you've been using throughout the game. Once Super Sonic shows up, you've pretty much finished the challenging part of the story, and you're free to let loose, kick the bad guy's ass, and save the day without much trouble. In that respect, I don't really mind the Super fights as they are.

That's not to say I wouldn't want them to make them play more like Sonic, tho'. I'd prefer it, in fact; being able to whip the final boss with gameplay I like is obviously better than with gameplay that's kind of meh.

SA2- you use a homing attack to hit the boss,

Yeah, and that's about where the similarities end. You fly instead of run, jumping is replaced by flying up and the spindash/roll is replaced by flying down. It's a completely different sort of game than what Sonic's usually doing.

ShTH- you use a jump dash to dash forward, and you shoot Chaos Spear like the guns throughout the game,

Again, you're flying, and this time you don't seem to have much of any direct control over your height. There's also no gun that can be charged up, to my recollection.

06- similar to Heroes, only not as good,

I haven't played it, but from what I remember seeing it's just flying and circling around Solaris at a fixed distance and using a single attack (per hedgehog) over and over again.

Secret Rings- shake to use Speed Break and Time Stop just like in normal gameplay,

Except in normal gameplay you fill the bar with collectibles, not by shaking it. The jumping is also sort of weird, if I remember right it doesn't use the whole "charge" style that the rest of the game does.

[Phos]

Yeah, in a game like Sonic, the very last boss should basically be a reward (challenging, but with little chance of actual failure), some kind of massive climax, rather than a terrible frustrating mess (Like Unleashed).

Edited June 18, 2009 by Phos

[JaidynReiman]

Diogenes, I do agree on the SA2 one; that's far different from the main gameplay. However, Shadow the Hedgehog's is very close to the main gameplay. The only real difference here is you can't change your height, but it still works about the same as the main game, just slightly different. Secret Rings' is also just an expansion of the main gameplay, with only slight alterations from the norm given the circumstances.

My opinions on Super Sonic? Mmm... I kinda dislike it when the gameplay is heavily different from the main game, but otherwise, I don't mind Super Sonic being the final boss. I would like Super Sonic to appear in more than just the final boss, though, and sometimes have him appear and not be the final boss. However, I generally do like Super Sonic appearing. It'd just be nice if he wasn't limited to the final battle.

[Mike]

Why does Super Sonic still lose rings?

and why did he have a health bar in Unleashed?

That has to go. You're Super for crying out loud! You should enjoy it. Not have to rush through it or worry about how much health you have left.

[Unholy Sonic]

Secret Rings- shake to use Speed Break and Time Stop just like in normal gameplay,

Black Knight- same as normal gameplay, only slightly more responsive controls, IMO.

Should those two really count? I mean, we don't even call them Super Sonic.... Secret rings isn't even using the chaos emeralds since they don't even exist in that game he used 3 Secret rings not emeralds.

Black knight either the chaos emeralds don't exist and he didn't use the secret rings that we could find in the legacy stages. On top of that, Sonic stayed the game with a golden armor and excalibur nothing else.

Why does Super Sonic still lose rings?

Because the ring enable sonic to control the power of the seven chaos emeralds all at once.

and why did he have a health bar in Unleashed?

Depends.... if you play on the Wii it's just the rings

That has to go. You're Super for crying out loud! You should enjoy it. Not have to rush through it or worry about how much health you have left.

When your Super Sonic its to end a super powered enemy not just cause Sonic wants to fly and plow trough everything thats made of metal or is a mutant/god creature....

But yeah... to me, Sa1 was the one who made Super Sonic play the best to the rest of its own game. Sa2 was also greatly done it was like S3&k minus the long chasing road to collect rings and catch up to eggman.

I would also like to see Super Sonic being able to be used in the normal stages & in the last boss. Make it so that Sonic, when used in the normal stage, is able to maintain his super form for 10~15 secs after you get 50 rings and after its done your left with 1 ring (can't go back in normal form and get killed right away uh?).

As for the last boss with Super Sonic... the last time we got a space battle was with SA2, I would like more last boss in space and maybe make it like in S3&K? The chasing part the rest they can do whatever they want.

[Diogenes]

As for the last boss with Super Sonic... the last time we got a space battle was with SA2, I would like more last boss in space

Ugh, please, no. Space in general is neat, but any particular section of space on a human scale is boring as all hell. It's total emptiness with white dots in the background. Maybe a planet or galaxy or something visible, if you're lucky.

I want to see more Super Sonic fights at ground level. They've done space, they've done trippy space-like voids, and there's really not a whole lot else to do with that theme...since the theme is pretty much "nothing. And maybe some lights". How about a setting with actual, y'know...things? And not just background objects, how about stuff you can actually interact with?

[BlazingTales]

I like how they did it in SA2 and particially Unleashed. There is a section of the boss that you do in normal form that challenges the player to use what they've learned throughout the game, and then the final section where you are super and can just enjoy yourself and say "Ohmigosh thiz iz sao kol!". The Super boss should be a fun reward for making it through the first challenging section.

[BaronSFel001]

As for the last boss with Super Sonic... the last time we got a space battle was with SA2, I would like more last boss in space and maybe make it like in S3&K? The chasing part the rest they can do whatever they want.

How about something parallel to the opening episode of the third season of Sonic X? It was not explicitly shown, but the implicit evidence is strong that Super Sonic virtually wiped out the invading Metarex armada before Dark Oak decided to up the stakes personally. I am thinking of a free-movement battlefield in which there is much more to fight than just a big, mean supervillain: either hoardes upon droves of more minor enemies, or even combining the two to form a complete military force with weak frontliners and powerful commanders. The more epic, the better, I think. And of course, it does not necessarily have to take place at the end of a game - why not the middle, or even the beginning?

EDIT: by the way, the topic title and subtitle both could use revision.

Edited June 19, 2009 by BaronSFel001

[Flyboy Fox]

I don't see anything wrong with the topic title and Aquaslash hasn't complained about the subtitle, so lighten up

[eXtaticus]

Ugh, please, no. Space in general is neat, but any particular section of space on a human scale is boring as all hell. It's total emptiness with white dots in the background. Maybe a planet or galaxy or something visible, if you're lucky.

I want to see more Super Sonic fights at ground level. They've done space, they've done trippy space-like voids, and there's really not a whole lot else to do with that theme...since the theme is pretty much "nothing. And maybe some lights". How about a setting with actual, y'know...things? And not just background objects, how about stuff you can actually interact with?

If you don't like space because it's empty and boring, then check this idea out: a Super Sonic battle IN THE MIDDLE OF HYPERSPACE!!!

Hmm... ~JuIcY~