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When will Sega/Dimps/Sonic Team understand?


PerfectChaos
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Homing attack chains are optional in Lost World, although it is encouraged since the more critters you save the better the outcome will be.

Edited by Wil348
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First, I think this should go in the Upcoming Sonic Games forum if you want to talk in particular about the Lost World version.  If you want to talk about Homing Attack chains in general, then it's probably best to keep Lost World out of it, since some of us don't want the game to be spoiled.  (Gameplay spoilers can be vexsome for some people)

 

Second, your complaint would probably be more much better understood and respected if you went into more detail as to why they suck and why you feel they should be omitted from future games.  As is, the topic is nothing but a glorified status update.

 

Anyway, assuming I know what you're referring to (you mean when there's multiple airborne enemies in a row that you have to Homing Attack, correct?), I have no problem with homing attack chains.  They're a good way to keep the game from succuming to the dreaded "hold right syndrome," and test your reflexes as well as your ability to do more than just run and boost.  The only thing I hate about them is when the homing attack won't lock on and you end up falling to your doom through no fault of your own. (Looking at you, SA2) - At least Crazy Gadget had the courtesy to give you a rail so you have a reasonable chance of saving yourself should that ever happen.  When you're forced to do homing attack chains over a long trail with nothing to save you due to a bug in the system, then it's bothersome.

 

Otherwise, I love them.  I say keep 'em in!

Edited by Akito
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Homing chains aren't even the problem anymore. In fact, they're not really that big of a deal whenever they're not what you do for 75% of the game. That was the problem with them in games such as Sonic 4, Heroes, 06, and Unleashed/Colors/Gens; but it seems to be heavily underplayed in Lost World so far, or at least balanced out alongside every other action you do.

 

Honestly if there is anything that IS a big problem, it's the dash panels. They're everywhere, and have been since Sonic Adventure. The problem is that while in SA1, it seemed as a design crutch for having generally broken game physics every now and then while going fast. But some group of game designers (almost definitely including Takashi Iizuka) between then and now decided it was a natural and enforced part of Sonic level design..??? 

 

I'll never get it why they feel like the levels have to be so limited by automation. Its contradictory to the game philosophy of both the original Sonic gameplay and the new Lost World gameplay, and only really suits itself to the last gameplay type we had, where it was based solely around running at a constant top speed to the end of an obstacle course.

 

I mean, sheesh. The least they could do is allow them to go forward and reverse (like those in Stardust Speedway or something). But now I'm just rambling.

Edited by Azookara
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You shouldn't.

 

Is there any defense of homing attack chains, though? They're mindless wastes of time, illusions of content and interaction.

I'm not going to deny this, but they're fun mindless wastes of time and entertaining illusions of content and interaction.  I wouldn't even have questioned their existence if they had never been brought up before.

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Well yeah, homing chains are essentially useless.

 

But it's fun if the game mechanics make it fun. That seems to be the upper hand Lost World has in comparison to.. well, every Sonic before it featuring homing chains.

 

At least you seem to have this bouncy speed-retaining movement when using it this time. It's like a homing missle plus an elastic ball, rather than just hitting everything at the same height, speed, etc like in the past recent games.

Edited by Azookara
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I don't think I noticed any necessary homing attack chains in any of the Lost World footage, at least the Wii U levels anyway (can't even remember the 3DS footage :U). Maybe I need to watch it again, but even so, they've never really an issue for me. Oh well.

 

 

What about pressing A 5 times is fun.

Well if we're being as vague as possible: because when you do that, stuff happens, and stuff happening is fun.

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What about pressing A 5 times is fun.

When you over-simplify it like that, it's not going to sound fun.  Heroes might be an exception because I've literally just done that to get through a Homing Attack chain in that game.  You still have to line your shots carefully.  Admittedly, the mechanic is not fully realized.  I think Metal Harbor had some of the best chains, where instead of just going on a singular path, a chain would branch out.

 

But saying it's only pressing A five times is like saying that jumping on Goombas is just pressing A once.

Edited by Akito
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To be fair, homing attacks in the Modern games usually don't require aiming all that carefully, although it might just feel that way because of the range.

 

The mechanics of the move in Lost World look a lot more interesting than past titles, admittedly. It looks like if you let the lock on cursor linger on an enemy longer, the homing attack becomes more powerful, so it can defeat those enemies you'd normally have to use the kick to destroy. Why you'd waste time on that instead of just kicking them, I don't know. But it's nice to see that there might be some more thought into Destroying Robots this time around.

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You shouldn't.

 

Is there any defense of homing attack chains, though? They're mindless wastes of time, illusions of content and interaction.

 

I'd agree, but I still think they're fun.

Sometimes they're a pain in the arse, especially in the adventure games where they more often than not led to pits of death when the mechanic broke. But when they work, they just feel fucking cool. Running at full pelt, leaping into the air and dashing through the air smashing robots is great. It looks cool and it feels cool.

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To be fair, homing attacks in the Modern games usually don't require aiming all that carefully, although it might just feel that way because of the range.

And again, I'm not going to deny that.  Like I said, the mechanic isn't fully realized, but I have no reason to believe it's inherently bad.  SA2 had the mechanic right conceptually, but the execution was flimsy and broken.  The newer games require little to no effort in doing so because of the lock-on system, which is is a good idea but hasn't been used to its fullest potential.

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Well if you boil it all the way down to the basic function, you can make pretty much anything sound not fun like that. :u

When you over-simplify it like that, it's not going to sound fun.

But there's really not anything else to it. You press the button, the game throws you at the enemy, the enemy dies, repeat.

You still have to line your shots carefully.

Aside from some extra missions in Unleashed, and maybe the games that are shittily programmed, there's been no point in the series where you had to line up carefully to homing attack. You just hold vaguely towards the enemy (which is almost always forwards, the same direction you were holding before), and tap A.

But saying it's only pressing A five times is like saying that jumping on Goombas is just pressing A once.

No, see, Mario doesn't homing jump. You need to actually control him to land on things. And the height you bounce varies depending on whether you're holding the jump button or not, which you can use to your advantage.

The homing attack doesn't have that. You don't have any control, you don't have any variation. It's the same thing every time.

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But there's really not anything else to it. You press the button, the game throws you at the enemy, the enemy dies, repeat.

Aside from some extra missions in Unleashed, and maybe the games that are shittily programmed, there's been no point in the series where you had to line up carefully to homing attack. You just hold vaguely towards the enemy (which is almost always forwards, the same direction you were holding before), and tap A.

 

In other words, you don't really have to line up carefully to homing attack in any games... except for the ones that you do.

 

 

No, see, Mario doesn't homing jump. You need to actually control him to land on things. And the height you bounce varies depending on whether you're holding the jump button or not, which you can use to your advantage.

 

The homing attack doesn't have that. You don't have any control, you don't have any variation. It's the same thing every time.

Or you could just wait for the Goomba to get close and press A.  Granted, that would only work with Goombas, but you know what I mean.   You could say that's still more interaction than the Homing Attack, but then you're forgetting the parts where the robots have electric shields, or again, on the rare occasions when the chains branch into different directions.

Edited by Akito
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While the discussion going on is pretty okay, it still must be said:

Homing attack chains SUCK. Just watched Lost World footage and they're still present. Ugh.
One-sentence OPs like this are not okay. You guys know the rules on discussion value: elaboration is necessary. Writing a paragraph won't kill you.
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Like said, it at least looks like the issue of homing spam is getting underplayed now; and when used it seems that the mechanics behind it are much bouncier and speed retaining than they used to be.

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In other words, you don't really have to line up carefully to homing attack in any games... except for the ones that you do.

The missions in Unleashed are the rare exception. Needing to be careful because the game is shittily made isn't really worth considering, because any game that's shittily made has already failed.

Or you could just wait for the Goomba to get close and press A.

Except you need to pay attention to how fast it's moving and the timing of your jump, rather than having the game literally do it for you.

You could say that's still more interaction than the Homing Attack, but then you're forgetting the parts where the robots have electric shields, or again, on the rare occasions when the chains branch into different directions.

I'd rather these be incorporated in a mechanic that doesn't suck, rather than used to try to patch in interest to one that sucks.
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I've honestly never had a problem with homing attack chains and probably never will.

 

If anything, Sonic Lost World's are better because they keep the speed going.

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