Lost World Trailer 2 "This looks a bit like *Insert game here*"

[ArtFenix]

Climbing up scenery like trees & walls on a whim?

 

You mean, these trees? They're pathetic. What makes you want to climb up those trees and actually enjoy doing that? Nothing. Maybe an extra life you don't really need? Or a red star ring that once collected is no longer there? In it's core it's more a platform than a tree you can climb up.

Running on walls is something that has been there since 1998 SA.

Flawlessly running from one path and transitioning to a wall run to a vertical wall climb into a flair flip onto another path?

The concept itself is flawed and desert ruins from 3DS just shows that. For some stupid reason Sonic can now run on a vertical wall without getting any momentum.

Basically, that's how it was before SLW and in this game.

That's a mighty huge step forward indeed. Definitely the pinnacle of physics perfection.

 

The only thing SLW does better than Colors is more alternate paths, I will admit, but more freedom? Barely. Colors 3D levels were linear corridors with occasional alternate paths. SLW levels are linear tube pieces of levels flying in some void. Need I say that the other two types of levels are even more linear than Colors? Let's try to be reasonable. Colors 2D sections were just boring for the most part. It's a bit too early to judge SLW but from what I've seen they're no better (if not worse) in that department and 3D not-tube shaped levels are absolutely linear autorun bullshit, at least that Honeycomb one.

 

I don't see any huge improvements. Parkour system offers little really new abilities and how well/badly they will execute that mechanic remains to be seen. But right now it looks just a tiny bit better than Colors and that's the gameplay-only aspect. Everything else Colors does better so far.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ArtFenix

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I like how you intentionally chose an image of a tree you can't climb up instead of the ones you can as your example.

 

EDIT: Okay, I see you edited your post. But I still don't think your point holds a lot of water over what makes someone climb a tree. Best answer to that is "maybe because I wanted to?"

Edited July 17, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Lady Soniko]

Yeah I don't quite get the physics in the 3DS version, but the console version, momentum is in pretty much everything you do parkour wise, if a vertical wall is too tall for Sonic to climb he'll gradually lose speed and start to descend, when running across a wall he slowly descends down as he holds the wall for added grip, when jumping on the wooden windmill platforms, the force of his impact is then used as momentum to spin the mill, which then creates kinetic force and pull launching Sonic into the air like a ejector seat.

 

The trees are more than a platform, the physics and animation of Sonic actually climbing them act like actual trees, and if anything the Tree's are more a springboard to get air or reach higher places, it seems I need to draw up my own MS Paint diagrams to show what I mean by freedom, brb.

[ArtFenix]

Yeah I don't quite get the physics in the 3DS version, but the console version, momentum is in pretty much everything you do parkour wise, if a vertical wall is too tall for Sonic to climb he'll gradually lose speed and start to descend, when running across a wall he slowly descends down as he holds the wall for added grip, when jumping on the wooden windmill platforms, the force of his impact is then used as momentum to spin the mill, which then creates kinetic force and pull launching Sonic into the air like a ejector seat.

 

The trees are more than a platform, the physics and animation of Sonic actually climbing them act like actual trees, and if anything the Tree's are more a springboard to get air or reach higher places, it seems I need to draw up my own MS Paint diagrams to show what I mean by freedom, brb.

Point taken, no objection here. WiiU physics are better. 3DS physics suck hard. Awaiting your own diagram then.

 

BTW, I lol'd.

Sounds like he can't live without any new gimmicks.

[Candescence]

Let's not beat around the bush here, Unleashed, Colours and Generations 3D segments were, for the most part, racetracks with the occasional shortcut, barely a step above being on-rails. They were that linear.

 

At least Lost World lets you go under its tubes. Or anywhere within reason, really. None of this 'look, don't touch' horseshit from previous games.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Shirou Emiya

[Sami]

Let's not beat around the bush here, Unleashed, Colours and Generations 3D segments were, for the most part, racetracks with the occasional shortcut, barely a step above being on-rails. They were that linear.

At least Lost World lets you go under its tubes. Or anywhere within reason, really. None of this 'look, don't touch' horseshit from previous games.

I liked that "horseshit", thanks. It's a legitimate gameplay style that's good at what it attempts to do, and has no real equivalent with any other game. It's unique and it's fun, and that's what I like.

Games like Super Meat Boy are extremely linear as well - there's really only one way to beat each level. Dodge the obstacles and don't die. I don't see how linearity is an inherent flaw in game design. There are little goodies to collect if you find the hidden nooks and crannies of the level, which gives me the replay value I like to have after beating the game, and the levels have enough individual gimmicks and shortcuts to be unique and memorable.

Does Lost World have some advantages? Sure. There's more freedom to explore and the level's are bigger. But personally, unless there's something I'm specifically looking for, I don't care to explore. Plus, too much freedom can just make exploration tedious. I'll have to climb up every single tree to see if there's something hidden on top? Oh fuck me, no thanks.

I don't care if I can go underneath the tube or whatever, because once I find the fastest path, I'm never going to go in there again. I play Sonic because I like blasting through these intense obstacle courses without stopping. That's fun. It's exhilarating and addicting. Spindash spamming in Adventure was fun. Speedruns in Adventure 2 were fun. Fuck Sonic Heroes, Shadow, and 06, because they all force me to stop and fight. Unleashed? Same thing. Generations? Yeah. Even Colors have me a fun self-imposed challenge with the "try and get through this whole level without slowing down" mentality. Made platforming more difficult, but I like difficult games.

Will Lost World offer this? Probably. Parkour system looks like it will, anyway. But my main point here is that the added freedom does not necessarily mean an objectively better game. It's a different style that's hopefully as good at what it aims to do as Unleashed and Generations were.

So what's my problem? The issue is that the added freedom (of which I'm not seeing an enormous amount, but whatever) is not necessarily a bonus for me personally, while it also brings with it several cons. For one, the game is ugly. Visually a huge downgrade from the previous games to me. Secondly, it's a lot slower. The sense of exhilaration and speed Gens offered is gone now, and I'm sad to see it go. I liked it.

It's really not a direction I'm liking, and I genuinely hope that, unless the game ends up being so good my opinion changes entirely when I play it, this isn't going to be the direction the series goes in from now on, bar maybe the benefits of the parkour system.

I want theming and structure like Unleashed again (but better), not a collection of random levels. Such a huge step down... :/

P.S. I see no freedom or exploration in Desert Ruins Act 1. It's ugly as sin, looks extremely cheap, and looks boring as shit to play as well. It's completely barren!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Discoid

[Carbo]

Games like Super Meat Boy are extremely linear as well - there's really only one way to beat each level. Dodge the obstacles and don't die. I don't see how linearity is an inherent flaw in game design. There are little goodies to collect if you find the hidden nooks and crannies of the level, which gives me the replay value I like to have after beating the game, and the levels have enough individual gimmicks and shortcuts to be unique and memorable.

If you can't see the inherent differences in design mentality between a game like Super Meat Boy and Sonic Unleashed then you're completely off the deep end.

Also, every Sonic game is for the most of the part, completely linear. So is Lost World.

[Kuzu]

This argument is honestly going nowhere for both sides; Both parties have different reasons for playing video games, and Lost World just doesn't deliver those things for some people while others find it amazing.

 

 

Some people prefer a more natural, organic experience with the game feeling like an actual adventure instead of just an arcade of levels to play through with no context or reason.

 

 

While the others just really care about gameplay and how fun it is.

 

 

 

There really is no "right" answer to this, just play the game and make your own assumptions.

[C4k3]

Soooooooooooo, how 'bout that Zavok? It kinda took me by surprise when he said that line. The word 'die' hasn't been uttered since Black Knight, I believe?

 

I know it shouldn't be that important, but this has piqued my curiosity on the tone of the overall story, not to mention the E10+ rating which has raised a few questions.

Edited July 17, 2013 by TheCakeMiester

[TheOcelot]

Soooooooooooo, how 'bout that Zavok? It kinda took me by surprise when he said that line. The word 'die' hasn't been uttered since Black Knight, I believe?

 

I know it shouldn't be that important, but this has piqued my curiosity on the tone of the overall story, not to mention the E10+ rating which has raised a few questions.

 

It only needs one strong word to increase the E rating. Seems like quite a light hearted story.

[Milo]

All of this reminds me of an thread I remember reading earlier about criticisms about Colors's locations being too surreal or fantasy-based or something compared to those of Unleashed/Generations, with Sweet Mountain's candy location being held up as a striking example. SLoW really does feel like Colors 2 now. :heh: Perhaps SLoW should had been named "The Lost World: Sonic Colors."

 

Considering the setting the game takes place on -a previously undiscovered alien world- , I for one am not too bothered about the change of artstyle and graphics nor the planetoid/tubular design/setting of the 3D levels. If anything, I'm sure this is just for one game-I'm confident that at the end of the day, SLoW will be the exception rather than the norm in the grand scheme of things concerning graphics/level design; especially considering how Sonic since the end of his Adventure games has been more or less always changing the core gameplay one way or another with every new game.

[DarkLight]

Sonic games getting E-10 ratings shouldn't really be a surprise anymore.

 

Besides, having a character say "die" has no bearing on how the writing quality will be otherwise ShtH and 06' would be given more credit for how "dark" and "edgy" they were.

Edited July 17, 2013 by DarkLight

[SuperLink]

It's silly how one violent utterance can change a game's rating when kids' cartoons used to be violent all the time.

 

Also I have really got to stop making dumb arguments that are more trouble than they're worth. Here's my view in a nutshell;

 

I'm honestly not enamoured with the visuals similar to a lot of people, and Unleashed, though I think it's overrated among fans as a game, is one of the most beautiful games I've ever played, visually. I also liked the old gameplay style, but it's clear that it couldn't really expand into something of a masterpiece without changing tremendously.

 

I have always always held the belief that although SEGA's game designers have questionable talents, Sonic's series should always be shooting to be one of the best games on the market, gameplay wise. That belief will never be shaken, until it's something that gets critical and fan acclaim for doing all the right things in game design again, I won't be completely satisfied. Some of you guys may be ok with it playing it safe, but I won't be forever. I want the series to be respected as a pinnacle of platforming gameplay that genuinely does its own thing, up there with LBP, Ratchet and Clank, Banjo-Kazooie, and yes, Mario.

 

If the gameplay here is trying to make the first steps into making that possibility a reality, however lofty that may seem, I honestly don't care about graphics and story elements quite as much as usual. Maybe if they were playing it safe, yeah. But if the gameplay is good? Then wow, that's a far bigger deal because game design is hard and can take years and years to get right, especially because there's almost no academic work or study on it at all, nothing really to go by other than the developers' own abilities.

 

Sonic games will always be made, graphics and story can and will always be played with, we should know by now that one game a bit lacking in either doesn't mean the end of that art style completely. However, a Sonic game is finally going directions in gameplay design that seem inspired and right up Sonic's street, so I'm willing to give it a big try and maybe even praise the hell out of it if it turns out to be fun and clever. If it's as successful as they hope, they'll keep building on it, they'll make different kinds of worlds and stories for it.

 

So to people who dislike the art like I kinda do, fair play, but I genuinely think you should give the gameplay your attention because it could be a big step. Even if the old gameplay was "solid fun", would any of you put it at the level of impeccable game design and pure fun of any of the games on the Gamerankings top 10? (maybe which is fair enough!) But I wouldn't and I think lots maybe wouldn't. Sonic can go places, ya'll should let him, art and story or not. Whereas before SEGA pandered to fandom lines like "sonic isn't dark enough" or "sonic is all about speed nothing else matters", It should be obvious that Lost World is trying to genuinely address all the objective design criticism that 3D Sonic games have ever really had, which is a tough call. It may not make it all the way in one step, but it can sure as hell make one step.

[Sami]

If you can't see the inherent differences in design mentality between a game like Super Meat Boy and Sonic Unleashed then you're completely off the deep end.

Also, every Sonic game is for the most of the part, completely linear. So is Lost World.

I'm not saying they're the same, just using it as an example of why linearity is not an inherently bad thing.

[Candescence]

I'm not arguing against the inherent concept of linearity, God knows some of my favorite games are somewhat linear. But Unleashed, Colours and Generations (outside of the Classic stages) were excessively linear to the point where a good chunk of the time they were practically quick-time events outside of the 2D sections.

 

What Carbo said hits it on the head completely, Unleashed is a completely different sort of game from Super Meat Boy, the latter is one big test of skill and fair platforming challenges, the former is basically one big racetrack that occasionally throws obstacles at you that will inevitably kill you unless you've memorized the stage perfectly, rather than actually provide a fair challenge. Colours and Generations toned this factor considerably, but they do nothing to fix the fact that the Unleashed formula had the depth of a kiddie pool and was a dead-end in game design, with nowhere to go after Generations. The whole novelty of 'GOTTA GO FAST' wears off quickly, especially since you can attain such speeds with little to no difficulty whatsoever.

 

While the actual execution of such features can be debated, I was utterly thrilled to see the tiered speed system and the parkour moves. It's something I've been wanting out of a Sonic game for a while, now, being able to quickly and easily 'shift gears' without hassle and enable deeper platforming gameplay which could also be integrated into the classic concepts of momentum-based gameplay. It's not the best I could hope for, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

 

I don't play games for cheap thrills through the bare minimum of interactivity, I want actual depth and a fair challenge.

[Forum Adventurer]

Ok guys, I really didn't want to post this, but some of the sheer baffling lunacy has urged me to do so. 

 

I CANNOT believe how so many people are pissed off because of the graphics. As if, because the graphics are more simple than Unleashed or Generations, then that means the art style is inferior and that somehow the entire game is at a disadvantage and will suck. 

 

Have some of you considered why the game has more simple graphics? Perhaps Sonic Team haven't lost their mind and have an actual reason behind their actions. 

 

Perhaps part of the reason Unleashed and Generations were so short was because of their intense graphical demand. Huge levels that are so detailed and impressive graphically take both a lot of money and huge amounts of time and manpower. And guess what? Perhaps part of the reason Sonic Lost World has a more simplified graphical style is to make the game more solid, interactive and longer.

 

You know? 

 

To answer the complaints loads of you lot are constantly banging on about.

 

And perhaps the graphics are also more simple to make the art style more striking. Simple does not equate to bad. I for one much prefer the simple, yet incredibly pleasing, art style of Sonic Lost World to Sonic Generations. True, I do love Generations, but the amount of clutter and stuff on screen, which you cannot interact with at all, seemed very superficial. 

 

Or maybe, just maybe, the art style is more simple to resemble the Classic games. Because part of the charm and genius in the best classic Sonic levels were their simplicity. 

 

I think I remember quite a lot of you lot banging on about wanting a return to the Classic art style.

 

But here I am, looking at certain members of the hardcore Sonic fanbase condemn Sonic Lost World purely because the game has a more simplified and streamlined graphical appearance. 

 

Give me a break!

 

Forum Adventurer wishes you a good day and signs out.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Forum Adventurer

[Diogenes]

I remember "highway in the sky" being a point of negativity in regards to the levels in Generations 3DS. This is more or less the same thing to me.

I never played Gens 3DS so I can't comment on that, but for me "highway in the sky" has always been a complaint about function, not aesthetic; in a 3D game, it means you're always just a hair away from plummeting into the abyss. That's obviously not the case with SLoW, given the gravity gimmick.

To me, a game that is absolutely astounding in all aspects except for the actual game design can still be noteworthy and memorable to me.

I don't disagree with that; there's plenty of games that I've seen through LPs that are really interesting experiences that I don't think would be much fun to play. But personally I think no matter how good all that stuff is, if it fails in the gameplay, it overall fails as a game.

Playing through a level in Sonic Unleashed or Generations is like nothing else I've ever played, and I love it for two things - the ability to marvel at these very believable, beautiful levels, and the exhilarating rush of blasting through them at mach speed.

You keep saying believable levels, I keep seeing cardboard cutouts...

Can I stop and go over to that chunk of land in the background? No. But is the solution really supposed to be stripping the level of all of its decor?

I don't think SLoW is the ideal solution. But I think it's a step above Unleashed and Gens because it's actually focusing on the play, on creating structures that are actually meaningful and not just background fluff.

To me, it's like getting upset at a nature walk because you're not allowed to climb the trees off the path. Who cares? They're there for you to look at and appreciate, not to interact with. This solution? Mow down all of the trees, and make the path bigger to compensate. Well... okay, but now I have no trees. Cool?

To me, I'd call Unleashed and Gens signing up for a nature walk, and it turning out that it's just sitting around looking at pictures of trees. Seeing a tree is not the same as being in a forest; you need all the sounds and the smells and the feeling of the dirt and plants under your feet. And I'll be touching a lot more dirt in SLoW than I ever could in Unleashed or Gens.

Yet it all works in the context of the world. Does it look silly when you think about it? Yeah, absolutely. And yet it isn't jarring to me because that's just what Sonic's world is like, and always has been like. Loops and rings.

What's this mean, besides "it looks like how they made it"? What context is there that makes SLoW's locations not make sense? Why's a floating corkscrew highway make any more sense than a floating dirt tube?

[ArtFenix]

It should be obvious that Lost World is trying to genuinely address all the objective design criticism that 3D Sonic games have ever really had, which is a tough call. It may not make it all the way in one step, but it can sure as hell make one step.

One step forward, two steps back.)) Shadow the hedgehog knew that all along. What I'm talking about is the tube-shaped ones might be an improvement but you all seem to forget that there are 2 other types of levels and they sure as hell are not improvements over what has been established in the series already.

 - 2D levels still look like they're boring and repetitive

 - "run or die" levels are clearly inspired by Sonic Dash which is clearly similar to Unleashed type of gameplay. Unleashed type of gameplay was a huge improvement over mach speed sections from Sonic 06. Let's see what SLW "Run or die" levels are made of

1. Autorun. Step down from what was in Generations

2. Repetitiveness. That Honeycomb level consists of like 2-3 sections that repeat several times. Step down from Gens.

3. SLOW speed. Step down even from Colors which was the slowest Unleashed type game.

4. Shortness. Again, that Honeycomb level is short and given it's speed there is no excuse for it to be so short and repetitive.

5. Linearity. It's so linear you don't even turn!!! The level is a straight line with no turns whatsoever.

 

I think it's a step above Unleashed and Gens because it's actually focusing on the play, on creating structures that are actually meaningful and not just background fluff.

The background is NEVER meaningful (aside from being connected to the story of course). It's either pretty to look at or not. In case of SLW it's the latter.

And I'll be touching a lot more dirt in SLoW than I ever could in Unleashed or Gens.

I bet even dirt will be made of triangles, blocks or some other geometric figures.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ArtFenix

[DarkLight]

You know, complaining about complaining doesn't help things, right?

 

EDIT: Referring to Former Adventurer's post.

Edited July 17, 2013 by DarkLight

[Milo]

Ok guys, I really didn't want to post this, but some of the sheer baffling lunacy has urged me to do so. 

 

I CANNOT believe how so many people are pissed off because of the graphics. As if, because the graphics are more simple than Unleashed or Generations, then that means the art style is inferior and that somehow the entire game is at a disadvantage and will suck. 

 

Have some of you considered why the game has more simple graphics? Perhaps Sonic Team haven't lost their mind and have an actual reason behind their actions. 

 

Perhaps part of the reason Unleashed and Generations were so short was because of their intense graphical demand. Huge levels that are so detailed and impressive graphically take both a lot of money and huge amounts of time and manpower. And guess what? Perhaps part of the reason Sonic Lost World has a more simplified graphical style is to make the game more solid, interactive and longer.

 

You know? 

 

To answer the complaints loads of you lot are constantly banging on about.

 

And perhaps the graphics are also more simple to make the art style more striking. Simple does not equate to bad. I for one much prefer the simple, yet incredibly pleasing, art style of Sonic Lost World to Sonic Generations. True, I do love Generations, but the amount of clutter and stuff on screen, which you cannot interact with at all, seemed very superficial. 

 

Or maybe, just maybe, the art style is more simple to resemble the Classic games. Because part of the charm and genius in the best classic Sonic levels were their simplicity. 

 

I think I remember quite a lot of you lot banging on about wanting a return to the Classic art style.

 

But here I am, looking at certain members of the hardcore Sonic fanbase condemn Sonic Lost World purely because the game has a more simplified and streamlined graphical appearance. 

 

Give me a break!

 

Forum Adventurer wishes you a good day and signs out.

 

You're kinda beating a dying horse here.

[Forum Adventurer]

You know, complaining about complaining doesn't help things, right?

 

EDIT: Referring to Former Adventurer's post.

 

It probably won't, you are right, but the sheer amount of complaining that goes on here is hilarious. 

 

I browse the forums because you lot tend to be the quickest to post news. I also think you lot are great at analyzing trailers.

 

Yet all I ever see is complaints in regards to absolutely everything. It's amazing. I actually wonder how some users actually play the games. Do they pull their hair out every time something they disapprove of (out of a vast list) happens in a level?

 

Nevertheless, I will keep browsing these forums to get all your analysis info and trailer info. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Forum Adventurer

[Diogenes]

I bet even dirt will be made of triangles, blocks or some other geometric figures.

You keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing, you only prove that you don't actually know anything about Sonic games.

[Hero of Legend]

Secret Rings had the word hell in it "IT MAY EVEN OPEN THE GATES OF HELL!!!" and had an E rating...

[Candescence]

I love how ArtFenix is flipping his shit over a short gimmick level that will probably only be the basis of a few acts at most (which I'd rather do without, frankly, but whatever). I'm not gonna argue about the whole 2.5D thing, since I'd rather they just toss out the 2.5D thing entirely, I'd rather have a 3D game that can stand on its own two feet rather than use 2.5D gameplay as a crutch (like the last three games were completely guilty of).

Edited July 17, 2013 by Shirou Emiya

[Wraith]

One step forward, two steps back.)) Shadow the hedgehog knew that all along. What I'm talking about is the tube-shaped ones might be an improvement but you all seem to forget that there are 2 other types of levels and they sure as hell are not improvements over what has been established in the series already.

 - 2D levels still look like they're boring and repetitive

 - "run or die" levels are clearly inspired by Sonic Dash which is clearly similar to Unleashed type of gameplay. Unleashed type of gameplay was a huge improvement over mach speed sections from Sonic 06. Let's see what SLW "Run or die" levels are made of

1. Autorun. Step down from what was in Generations

2. Repetitiveness. That Honeycomb level consists of like 2-3 sections that repeat several times. Step down from Gens.

3. SLOW speed. Step down even from Colors which was the slowest Unleashed type game.

4. Shortness. Again, that Honeycomb level is short and given it's speed there is no excuse for it to be so short and repetitive.

5. Linearity. It's so linear you don't even turn!!! The level is a straight line with no turns whatsoever.

 

 

 

Considering Unleashed, Colors and Gens had mini acts and missions all over them with about as much depth as the "run or die" levels, I wouldn't consider it much of a downgrade. 

 

Hell, it's probably an upgrade. Mini acts suck a lot of the time.