Attitudes and Respect

[Tara]

Not a staff member, but I'm going to admit that I pay attention to my likes, too.  It usually means I said something smart or funny... or that someone interpreted something I said to be smart or funny. ^^; - But yeah, I don't gloat about them.  Well, not that I have a substantial number to gloat about, but even if I had as many likes as other members, I don't think would want to gloat about it.  I mean, they're like "get well soon" cards.  They're nice, but they're not important.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with pay attention to your likes rather you're a member or staff.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Akito

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, that's one of the good things of getting rep. One of the bad things is being a dick and getting the rep, which only adds fuel to the fire - especially if it's oldbies doing it - and makes people think that being a dick is awesome, thus leading to you guys making these very topics when it gets out of hand.

[JezMM]

To pitch in I also would be sad to see Likes go.  I'd even say that yes I do fish for Likes when I make snappy humour posts.  But I don't see that as a bad thing, as Likes are merely a symbol of what I am REALLY fishing for - laughs.  I love making people laugh.

 

I mean geez if like 15 people found my post funny how friggin' grating would it be if 15 people in a row all started their post quoting me and going "LOL"  "Hahaha nice one Jez"  "My chortles extend to you thoroughly good sir" etc etc.

 

And if they didn't do that... how would I even know my humour was appreciated.

 

And in non-joke posts then yeah sometimes you have nothing else to add to a topic but you want to tell someone you agree with them.

 

 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting validation in how you present yourself.

 

 

 

In conclusion, I think Likes are a very neutral system.  They can be used for good and bad, when they're used for bad, Likes aren't the problem, people are.

Edited July 21, 2013 by JezMM

[novelty]

Not a staff member, but I'm going to admit that I pay attention to my likes, too.  It usually means I said something smart or funny... or that someone interpreted something I said to be smart or funny. ^^; - But yeah, I don't gloat about them.  Well, not that I have a substantial number to gloat about, but even if I had as many likes as other members, I don't think would want to gloat about it.  I mean, they're like "get well soon" cards.  They're nice, but they're not important.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with pay attention to your likes rather you're a member or staff.

 

Well, I see the likes system as a sense of SSMB experience. I would look at someone with more likes as either responsible or active in the message board over someone else (except Pelly, because her profile is the epitome of why likes don't really matter) .

[Sean]

I'm with Nep and Wolfy. I like getting rep for posts I put a lot of effort into or am otherwise proud of. Who doesn't? It's mostly to do with my liking for statistical stuff rather than any sort of attention whoring though, I never like to discuss my rep, either in public or with others.

And like Wolfy said there are times when a mod feels unsure about an action so seeing people agree with it is a good indication of whether they're on the right track in performing an action, so I wouldn't say that members liking mod actions is necessarily bad. But I'm always bothered when I get a ton of rep for using harsh tones against a specific member or members. Having to be an asshole to members acting that way is not something I enjoy doing even if I do it to get my point across, and I think part of it just comes from members who like seeing a staff member giving someone a beatdown.

It just makes me cringe when I see like a million likes for a post I made that I'm not proud of making but simply felt I had to, mostly posts in which I'm telling someone to shut the fuck up or otherwise expressing a harsher tone than my usual demeanor.

[tenchibr]

I admit I pay attention to my likes. Why wouldn't I? Praise and agreement feels nice, especially when you're doing a job that inherently involves nasty things being sent to your PM box, or people complaining and questioning your actions without being fully aware of the situation half the time. But most times I don't like openly talking about my rep because it automatically comes off as attention-whoring, and I work that much harder to make my posts as articulate and impersonal as I can to "justify it." I try to be humble about it, as it were, but I'm not going to lie and say getting Likes doesn't make me feel appreciated.

 

I can get behind that process of thought. And it's true, I bet I am older than half of the staff and I have noticed that there's nothing more human than wanting to be noticed, that I still feel the same way. Even so, I don't like the rep system but I do agree that giving you guys positive feedback should be part of our routine as members. I just wish there was a better way to do so, maybe one day...

 

After seeing Nepenthe's post, I feel like I would rather send PM's to staff approving of their decisions when they make a deep impact on me. I don't think a "like" is enough, but until then, I can live with it (the rep system).

Edited July 21, 2013 by tenchibr

[Sean]

I've received PMs in the past from members saying that they appreciated an action I made. It's the best feeling ever and it improves our morale more than any amount of rep ever could !!

[tenchibr]

I've received PMs in the past from members saying that they appreciated an action I made. It's the best feeling ever and it improves our morale more than any amount of rep ever could !!

 

To that extent, I would assume the same would apply to all of us. I will try to do that more often, including new members.

Edited July 21, 2013 by tenchibr

[Nepenthe]

PMs are awesome too- probably more awesome than Likes because someone appreciated my actions enough to actually sit down and write about them to me. I've gotten a few before that just made me positively giddy. Ultimate payment though would be Reese's cups. Normal and minis only- none of those abominations like white chocolate.

[Lady Soniko]

PMs are awesome too- probably more awesome than Likes because someone appreciated my actions enough to actually sit down and write about them to me. I've gotten a few before that just made me positively giddy. Ultimate payment though would be Reese's cups. Normal and minis only- none of those abominations like white chocolate.

 

 

W-We sell those in my store I work at...

 

Will Nepenthe Sempai notice me if...?

[-blank-]

Okay, I know this has been brought up before, but it's been irking me very much; why are the newbies being considered the main problem here? Yes, every once in a while we do get an assholish newbie who only wants to troll the forum and cause problems. But the vast majority of the time, it is the veteran members that are acting like assholes. And I don't understand why. There should be no reason for the oldbies to act like jerks towards new members. I mean, most of the time, the actual thread isn't anything bad. Yeah, a lot of times the OP could stand to be better, but I see a lot of topics from newbies that could be a source of nice discussion value, if the veterans didn't act like assholes towards the new member and devolve the thread into insults and 'jokes' things like that.

 

Really people, be more considerate of others. Like with disagreeing with opinions. It doesn't matter whether you agree or not - you can disagree with someone and still show your disagreement in a mature, polite matter. There's not need to be a jerk about it.

[Meow]

 

 

Okay, I know this has been brought up before, but it's been irking me very much; why are the newbies being considered the main problem here? Yes, every once in a while we do get an assholish newbie who only wants to troll the forum and cause problems. But the vast majority of the time, it is theveteran members that are acting like assholes.

 

Just to re-iterate the message since I think throughout the topic the point got skewed and blame was shifted from oldies to newbies - but the newbies are not the problem being adressed here (as they shouldn't be) 

 

It's the asshole attitudes of the people on this board who have been around here for a while, who should know better than to treat each other like dickheads, and who apparently have no off switch for being an asshole because it ruins their 'fun'. Essentially a lot of people here are bullies and if they think they are internet tough guys I am of the opinion they should go somewhere else, preferably going off to find some cesspool of idiocy since those places aren't hard to find on the net. I've been here since 2006 myself and I remember while this place has never been absolutely perfect, and that there has always been problem members (and probably always continue to have those) the overall level of maturity in the community was a lot higher. I think the best time for this was when the forum had been wiped clean and started anew again in 2009 and it felt like such a fresh start, a lot of people were getting along and even though the forum was in shambles people were still having a great time.

I honestly feel that the rep system and the status updates are doing just one part of making people too complacent in treating this place as a cliquey community, and abusing those features to be downright dicks and give each other asspats for being jerks. It's not cool and I hate to see it go on. The status updates I find are the easiest to abuse because there are times when as they say "the mods are gone". Not only that but I pointed out in my post earlier in this thread that status updates move so fast. I honestly would kinda miss them because Homem's jokes are incredibly entertaining and probably the only status updates I can say I actually appreciate, but if they were to go I wouldn't complain (I'd just weep because Homem's jooookessss). 

 

But to bring it back to the start again though its veteran attitudes around here that are the big problem. I remember when I first joined there were introduction topics where everyone was friendly with eachother, and as Noir I think pointed out earlier too even if you were a really annoying newbie who had yet to learn the ropes of a forum or you were just a young kid acting like young kids do - people were very welcoming and quick to help you with writing a post. Now we'll get people ganging up on some new member who might not make a great first impression for whatever reason all in the name of 'fun' and to get in a few 'jokes'. It's stupid. I can't believe there are people in this thread defending that type of behaviour and its honestly that behaviour that has really ruined this site for me multiple times on multiple occasions.

 

I don't expect everything to be all roses, we all have bad days. Even the nicest of people have been jerks at some point to someone else regardless of if they meant to or not. We're people, we're all not perfect, but I think people just need to stop for a second and actually think about what they are writing and if it is 1) not necessary and 2) being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole I think it's best to just not post. That's just how I feel about it.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Meow

[Frogging101]

To be honest I have never once seen someone seriously comment that mods are gone, therefore it is time to post naughty stuff. I have seen people say things like "no mods, post frogs" or similar things. Not once have I ever seen anyone say something like "no mods, post porn", and even if they did I would have a lot of difficulty taking it seriously because no reasonable person could believe that they wouldn't get caught; likely a mod will be on soon (there are staff members here across multiple time zones) and even if they weren't someone would probably report it (regardless of the nature of certain members, there's a line that most know should not be crossed).

Just wanted to point that out.

EDIT: Also, I'm sorry if my earlier post made it seem like I'm putting the blame on newbies. I'm not. Nobody can blame them for not immediately understanding the way things work around here in terms of content quality. What I am saying is that we as members shouldn't take it upon ourselves to call them on it, because that invariably leads to dogpiling and "edgy", snarky comments. We should leave it to the staff, because it's their job to enforce the rules and they're in a much better position to do it without making the newbie feel like shit; it's a lot more intimidating to have 10 members all telling you in different ways that you're doing it wrong, than to have one staff member do it. Our responsibility as members is to make use of that little report button at the bottom and let the staff know where they're needed.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Frogging101

[Yoko/葉子]

I hope this does not come across as cold and cruel, but it seems like the older members are DISCRIMINATING against the newest members for simply being naive about how we do topics when they make an unintentionally bad topic. Were we all not naive at one point? 

 

I know I made some mistakes with threads when I first joined, no one picked on me, but why are we doing it now?

[Stritix]

Glad to hear this is being addressed. I'm looking forward to seeing a positive change.

[Lady Soniko]

It's nothing to DO with new members, jesus.

 

As much as people are pointing fingers, it's long time members crossing the line, not the newbies.

 

Although I will admit some of the stubborn newbies that use opinion as fact excuses and don't back down, and keep on bringing it up, or repeating their opinions over and over,  really, really do annoy the fuck out of me.

 

**HUFFS/

[Frogging101]

It's nothing to DO with new members, jesus.

 

As much as people are pointing fingers, it's long time members crossing the line, not the newbies.

 

Although I will admit some of the stubborn newbies that use opinion as fact excuses and don't back down, and keep on bringing it up, or repeating their opinions over and over,  really, really do annoy the fuck out of me.

 

**HUFFS/

I'm not actually sure who you're talking to. Who was pointing fingers at the newbies now?

[Lady Soniko]

People who are pinning the blame on newbies for the attitude on the board, no one in particular obviously, just a general observation.

[Cyalume]

I kinda disagree with the idea that new members are always treated like shit and that the board is an elitist clique. Take SheWhoRantsTooMuch or RosaRosaRosalina for example, they're new, and they weren't treated badly. I remember my early days here, I wasn't treated badly. There's an issue here but it's definitely more complicated than "the forum regulars are an elitist clique who treat newcomers like shit".

Just chipping in on this bit of the subject, SSMB is far from a clique from what I've experienced thus far. At least, it hasn't been to me. I wasn't met with any negativity when I signed up. I have participated in boards that are like that: one in particular had a guy talking about "laughing new members off the face of the board". Nothing of the sort around these parts that I've heard of. Then again, I havn't been active here for too terribly long (I'm in and out a fair bit) and still aren't very active at the moment, so I may not be fully up-to-date on things.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I feel there's something more specific that needs to be called out. If there's really anything that needs to be addressed even more that veteran members disrespecting newcomers, it's veterans disrespecting each other either out of pure spite of simply not wanting one another to enjoy things being brought up for discussion, or even disregarding their points with little-to-no consideration to one another and their ideas when discussing them. I'm seeing a lot of "You're wrong for liking what I don't like" become louder and less actual critique and discussion being facilitated between members over whatever the topic is.

 

And I say this because I believe that when things get too intense either through misunderstanding or underhanded shaming, people start feeling bitter and cynical as hell, and then they'll end up taking out whatever frustrations they can either towards the person they last got into it with or on someone else like a newcomer. And that only magnifies if the oldbies are being downright dickish towards each other and they try to provoke each other into being more overt.

 

I've been on here since 2005, I'm one of the oldest members here, and I've seen and contributed to as much hell and disorder as much as I did easing things when tensions started settling down. When people started mellowing out and tried to understand and consider each other rather than snipe and belittle one another for different beliefs and interest, it was almost like a dream come true at the time for me and I did whatever I could to help bridge things (with a number of mess ups and occasional vitriol on my end when provoked, not gonna hide that). During 2009-12, I figured we wouldn't have to go through that dark age again...well, at least until Sonic 4 shook that foundation a bit, but now I see we might be taking steps back, and that predominantly has a lot to do with how many people came and gone and newcomers back then have become veterans themselves and changed a lot of the atmosphere.

 

I really want to go back to where we could at least try to bridge ideas and interests instead of trying to fracture them more. Anyone else with me on that?

Edited July 22, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Jolt_TH]

I do find it a real shame that the mood on the board has turned hostile and belittling aswell as a lack of respect. I had joined the forums 05/06 and was really active back then, I even had a shifty first topic about Sonic 06 not being on the Wii, and I'll admit, it was not good, but even then the majority of people posted constructive arguments against my point and didn't at all bandwagon or really make me feel like crap. I became inactive for a while due to school and only really recently became fully active again. Even though I'm not technically a "newbie" sometimes I do feel like one, I know a lot of my posts aren't great in detail or really thought provoking or well written and I am trying to become better at that, but I often feel that there is a divide between veteran members and the less experienced. I'm not talking a good divide whereby it's more of a "oh wow he/she is a really good poster/has excellent views" sorta thing I mean more of a "oh god "xyz" has been posting in this topic I don't wanna get ridiculed".

Many times I have been too nervous to post due to my lack of writing skills or really thought provoking points. Many times I have dreamed about being like one of those members who can post amazing replies almost constantly but I doubt I will ever reach that level of writing level and that actually stops me posting.

A main problem I think we have here is there is some sort of unwritten higherarchy, not between admin, mods and members, but within the member base itself. There does appear to be certain members who seem to think they are better than other members by virtue of membership length, post count, debating ability and even "I can shout louder than you can". This isn't right, just because some members aren't as experienced as you doesn't mean that they don't/ can't have valid and interesting points. The atmosphere here has gotten so hostile that some people can't even really expresses their views (wether that be like OR dislike) without feeling the need to belittle others. Why can't we just say something like "I disagree with that, but your reasoning seems valid" or "well I don't like it but its fine of you do" heck even "sorry I just can't agree", rather than "your opinion is wrong and here is why", "how can you seriously like that!?" Or "we'll then your just stupid".

I don't have many friends on here and I would love to have more, but I feel like you need to be a "veteran" or something to get friends or people talking to you. I don't really like the idea of getting rid of the likes, I love it when someone likes my posts, it builds me up and makes me feel like someone read/understood/likes a point I made, especially since i have rather low self esteem and don't count myself a "veteran" or a good writer, I do think they should stay. Maybe if there is a way to keep the liking part, but remove the rep?

I apologise if I have been the cause of any bad atmosphere, I truly didn't intend to cause any. Also I apologise to the mods if I have gotten under their feet at all, I find I can often be too eager to help.

Lastly I would like to thank the mods for all the hard work they do running the forum, I'm sure it's not easy and events like this must challenge your beliefs in the board itself aswell as the members.

Sorry if this is late but I wanted to get my thoughts out.

[Stritix]

Just chipping in on this bit of the subject, SSMB is far from a clique from what I've experienced thus far. At least, it hasn't been to me. I wasn't met with any negativity when I signed up.

 

Same. For the most part, I have had a pretty easy-going time here.

[Tornado]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I feel there's something more specific that needs to be called out. If there's really anything that needs to be addressed even more that veteran members disrespecting newcomers, it's veterans disrespecting each other either out of pure spite of simply not wanting one another to enjoy things being brought up for discussion, or even disregarding their points with little-to-no consideration to one another and their ideas when discussing them. I'm seeing a lot of "You're wrong for liking what I don't like" become louder and less actual critique and discussion being facilitated between members over whatever the topic is.

 

I will say that I've been seeing a lot more of this lately, and it pisses me off to no end (especially when the people who tend to do it go into what had been to that point a friendly discussion between members and start throwing it around) and did so long before I was a mod; so while I can't make any statements to how much it annoys other staff members, if I see it I will drop the hammer on it.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Tornado

[Nepenthe]

The whole "your opinion is wrong" thing gets on my tits, because at that point, you literally can't discuss the topic anymore if people are convinced that your subjective enjoyment of a game is literally wrong. It's about on par with saying that person's crazy (which I've also seen, and not in jest), and even worse is when people try to compromise on it. "You can like it, but you can't say it's good." Basically: You can have a subjective interpretation, but only under my circumstances. It's elitist as fuck.

[Vertekins]

The whole "your opinion is wrong" thing gets on my tits, because at that point, you literally can't discuss the topic anymore if people are convinced that your subjective enjoyment of a game is literally wrong. It's about on par with saying that person's crazy (which I've also seen, and not in jest), and even worse is when people try to compromise on it. "You can like it, but you can't say it's good." Basically: You can have a subjective interpretation, but only under my circumstances. It's elitist as fuck.

 

I've experienced this on so many occasions that I even questioned if I should take stances like that on the things I admire.

 

But then I realized that there's real merit to my points anyway on reflection. So I started ignoring many of the dispersions cast on my subjective interpretations. My Hidden Depths topic proved that to me as did the status updates mocking and misrepresenting my views on say, Unleashed.