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Chris

Attitudes and Respect

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Well, I must admit -- when I saw the Sonic Level Assistance thread go down the way, I actually teared up a bit. I mean, I've seen this sort of behavior here many times before, to my endless chagrin, but seeing what a legitimate attempt at bringing in some good discussion and help turn to dung like that just simply disappointed me, both as an SSMBer and a stickler for polite discourse.

Not gonna lie, I had a feeling it wasn't going to be taken seriously at some point. When I saw that it got derailed, I really was pissed off and very disappointed. Hopefully the creator doesn't feel any offense. I know all you guys can be good guys, but that was just wrong, no joke. Some can say it was "blown out of proportion" and it was only a little fun, but no, I'm sorry, hell fucking no. Not to be a Harsh Hannah dudes, but we can do better than that.

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I don't get it, not one bit. Why does this topic have to exist? Why can't the wrongdoers be talked to/punished, and then it can be done with? No need to address and put a damper on the entire SSMB. 

 

I mean I'm not saying that it's a non-issue but do we need a public topic?

Edited by Chaos Warp

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We make public announcements to reiterate rules and set standards and precedents. If we feel there's a major issue, we want everyone to know, and PMing every member isn't feasible. Sweeping every single issue under the rug eventually leads to points where things are taken for granted and problems live in an atmosphere where it's easier for them to persist.

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These attitudes need calling out. Topics pertaining to this have been created before such as and and yet evidently they haven't been heeded to any universal degree, which as I've said before is ironic considering 1 - The amounts of views these topics have garnered and 2 - The amount of likes the posts contained therein have received which to me is an indication of approval for what is being said.

 

I've always held fast to the idea that if you have nothing at least neutral to say, don't bother saying it, much like what Akito said earlier in this topic. Some members are lacking even basic netiquette and clearly do not respect the authority that the moderator's have (Continuing discussion that has explicitly been told to be stopped, posting sexualized and NSFW speak in the status updates when staff aren't online, the perpetrators even pointing out the lack of staff online as an invitation to do so), so yes, yes I do think it needs to be called out on and I praise this topic and others before it for doing so.

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If we can't be open about our resignations towards major issues on this board, then we will get nowhere.  When I was in middle school, there was an assembly on the rise of unacceptable behavior, namely blatant dress code violations.  Should I have been excused from the assembly because I wasn't guilty of the behavior or because those that were would feel bad?  Absolutely not.  It may have bored me to sleep and been a waste of a good few hours that could have been devoted to my own education, but sometimes you have to make a statement that some behavior is just inexcusable and unacceptable, and that's what the school did... and that's what SSMB is doing right now.

 

And I'm going to be honest, I've done these things in the past.  I am no better than anyone who derailed that topic, and I do not consider myself on higher moral ground.  But that's all the more reason this topic needs to be made.  The whole community, members and staff included, need to understand that behind the avatars of every user is a person, and I was raised to believe that all people deserve a certain degree of respect.  Unfortunately, SSMB has failed to provide some people with that certain degree, and as such it needs to be addressed.  While I would agree that this dispute would be best settled in private if it were just a few members, the fact that it has become a major issue with a good deal of the community in general warrants the publicity of this topic.  That way, everyone, including the unregistered guests, can see that we don't want to put up with this any longer.

Edited by Akito

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I personally thought the joke about calling an operator and pushing a number was incredibly clever. It was throwback to how when you needed help with classic games, you often had to call a helpline to find out what to do. If there was one post that would have been perfect to fit in that thread, it would have been that one.

 

But yeah, I agree. The thread dwindling down to garbage after 30 jokes with no actual discussion must be irritating.

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I don't get it, not one bit. Why does this topic have to exist? Why can't the wrongdoers be talked to/punished, and then it can be done with? No need to address and put a damper on the entire SSMB. 

 

I mean I'm not saying that it's a non-issue but do we need a public topic?

There are several ways that this could have been handled. I chose the path of lesser resistance to give an idea of the direction we're trying to go with this (since this isn't something I can largely change by myself). If I instead handed out warnings to everybody who was guilty of this as of late, we'd have a very different group of members around here this evening.

It's about getting members thinking about being considerate, not simply removing those who haven't thought about it in advance of this topic.

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And in case I'm not being clear, I am not at all saying the status updates should be exempted from debate or negative opinions on a matter.  They just shouldn't be so mean-spirited or so clearly meant to lambast upon someone.

 

Basically...

 

WRONG:

Member A - Can't wait to see Pacific Rim or other popular film!

Asskito - Ugh, giant robots and lizards and stuff?  Laaaaame!

 

Member B - Just got back from the baseball game!  Was lots of fun!

Asskito - >baseball >fun lol

 

RIGHT:

Member A - Can't wait to see Mediterranean Rim or other popular film!

Buttkito - Eh, not into the concept my self, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it.  I've heard it was good.

 

Member B - Just got back from the tennis game!  Was lots of fun!

Buttkito - Glad you had fun!

 

 

I couldn't agree with this more. It always brings me down a little whenever I see someone get bombarded with snarkastic responses, especially when they didn't even do or say anything to really provoke it. Whenever someone makes a status containing an unpopular opinion, for example, chances are it will soon be followed by 20 responses like shown in the "Wrong" section above, even if the opinion was thought-out and worded in a polite way.

 

I feel like this dissuades people from posting their own thoughts and encourages pointless, petty, banter wars rather than any sort of actual discussion. I'm not saying every conversation on SSMB needs to be an intelligent debate, but stuff like this does nothing but make the forum an unpleasant place to be at times. In fact, there's a couple subjects I downright avoid because I know if I speak my mind regarding them I'm just going to get bombarded with snarky, mean-spirited responses. It simply isn't worth it sometimes.

 

I agree completely with Vertekins philosophy of "If you have nothing at least neutral to say, don't bother saying it". You are not obligated to respond to every opinion you disagree with, nor are you obligated to join in on a discussion about something you dislike/don't care about. That's not to say you can't express your disagreements and negative thoughts, but you can do so while still being polite and respectful. There's no need to be a dick about it. Heck, I've seen some members in particular go out of their way to actually insult the person they disagree with. It's crap like that that needs to stop.

 

But you know what, I think it might be that some people simply don't realize they're saying something they shouldn't and end up offending the other person unintentionally. For those people, I say this: think before you speak. If you just wrote out a response to someone else, read through it before posting it. Make sure there are no parts that sound unfairly harsh, just TRY to come off as sounding reasonable and polite. It's really not a difficult thing to do if you put effort into it, I promise.

Edited by Speederino

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Make sure there are no parts that sound unfairly harsh, just TRY to come off as sounding reasonable and polite. It's really not a difficult thing to do if you put effort into it, I promise.

 

 

This is the reason why I don't post as often as other people. If I went off on every topic, there would be such negative opinions that I would be considered trolling, but I don't, I just read and digest another topic.

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There are several ways that this could have been handled. I chose the path of lesser resistance to give an idea of the direction we're trying to go with this (since this isn't something I can largely change by myself). If I instead handed out warnings to everybody who was guilty of this as of late, we'd have a very different group of members around here this evening.

It's about getting members thinking about being considerate, not simply removing those who haven't thought about it in advance of this topic.

Okay fine, but can it be at least deleted once the discussion is over? Because once this is over, I know it'll keep hanging there in the recent topics thing and the recent Member Feedback/Bug Reports topic thing, a constant reminder of how much SSMB sucks, a constant reminder of our fuckups. And IDK about people, but I know It'll just make me feel like shit as soon as I log on here every day, and frankly keep me off this place until it completely disappears and has been moved on from. It would be like if you failed a math test, you know that you fucked up and don't feel proud of it, yet your teacher brought it up every day, and it made you feel like shit each time.

 

 

Your opinion. Myself I don't think it's good to dwell on one's failures once they have been resolved: just go "Yeah, that happened, I learned from that", and move on.

Edited by Chaos Warp

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About the status updates. I usually go by the general rule of "When in doubt about whether or not someone is serious, they are not serious."

However, when I look at stuff like this:

AgQH2Dk.png

My first thought is "some people will be offended by this, even if I know they're not serious". Submissions like these are really unnecessary and not even all that funny (Do you see anything particularly witty or clever about this? Because I don't). It won't make anyone laugh, but it just might make someone cry. So...

3v8mcp.jpg

Okay fine, but can it be at least deleted once the discussion is over?

No. I'd rather it stayed.

Edited by Frogging101

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The way I see it, it shouldn't be hard to treat people the way you yourself would like to be treated.

For example, if someone admits that they geniunely don't know a particular bit of information you mentioned, and they were being sincere, who in the fuck gave you the right to bully and insult them for admitting to their ignorance? I emphasized that because I was on the receiving end of such additudes by no less than three people a few months back, who practically ignored moderators telling us to get back on topic until they were told the third time to stop.

I'm not going to name the people or mention the topic, because I'd like to think they've grown from that. But I really think we know better than that.

Now, I'm not going to deny any heavy snarking and even bandwagoning on my part. I'd like to say that if I was bandwagoning, I generally give information that wasn't given from others, but that's up to the mods to decide if it's going too far.

Look, sarcasm can be a useful tool in an argument, particularly when common sense or knowledge is being blatantly violated, but taking that too far is being a blatant dick simply to be a dick, especially when it's being used for rep-whoring and getting likes on you post. Which is why I stopped liking posts as much as I used too.

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Okay fine, but can it be at least deleted once the discussion is over? Because once this is over, I know it'll keep hanging there in the recent topics thing and the recent Member Feedback/Bug Reports topic thing, a constant reminder of how much SSMB sucks, a constant reminder of our fuckups. And IDK about people, but I know It'll just make me feel like shit as soon as I log on here every day, and frankly keep me off this place until it completely disappears and has been moved on from. It would be like if you failed a math test, you know that you fucked up and don't feel proud of it, yet your teacher brought it up every day, and it made you feel like shit each time.

 

I believe these things should be discussed and then quickly moved on from, to minimize bitterness.

On the contrary, I think it'd be better to keep topics like this, as a reminder that stuff like this is Not Okay.

 

There are definitely a lot of times where I've started to state my opinion on something (whether it be Sonic stuff, or any topic really) in the statuses or even some threads, only to change my mind and not post it out of worry of being torn apart. Debate is one thing, but personal insults and just plain being asshole-ish is another.

 

Of course, I know I've probably been snarky myself in the past, so this is kind of making me feel bad, too! But my feelings aren't relevant in that case, it's the feelings of people that have been hurt by behavior like this that are the issue.

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Ok, I was at work for most of yesterday so I didn't really peep here a lot outside of a few instances, but what the hell happened this time?

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Ok, I was at work for most of yesterday so I didn't really peep here a lot outside of a few instances, but what the hell happened this time?
It's not a single event that we're discussing. It's a general attitude lurking about that we are trying to minimize.

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On the contrary, I think it'd be better to keep topics like this, as a reminder that stuff like this is Not Okay.

 

There are definitely a lot of times where I've started to state my opinion on something (whether it be Sonic stuff, or any topic really) in the statuses or even some threads, only to change my mind and not post it out of worry of being torn apart. Debate is one thing, but personal insults and just plain being asshole-ish is another.

 

Of course, I know I've probably been snarky myself in the past, so this is kind of making me feel bad, too! But my feelings aren't relevant in that case, it's the feelings of people that have been hurt by behavior like this that are the issue.

I think we're smart enough to know this stuff is not okay without a constant reminder. We're not 10 year olds. 

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I think we're smart enough to know this stuff is not okay without a constant reminder. We're not 10 year olds.
it's the same idea as history. We use it to learn from our mistakes and not do the same thing. Why do you think schools keep reminding people about the holocaust?

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I think we're smart enough to know this stuff is not okay without a constant reminder. We're not 10 year olds.
Well it's still popping up here and there (like yesterday), so I don't see the problem with a friendly reminder like this. And excuse me for being blunt, but just what the hell is your issue with talking these issues through as a community, in the interest of making SSMB a friendlier place? If you don't want to participate in the thread, you don't have to. You don't even have to ever open this thread again. Just please stop criticizing people for wanting to bring issues out in the open instead of keeping it all repressed to the point where nothing gets solved and people leave.

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So I've logged in today and noticed I've received a warning, which is the first one I've had since I started posting here. I've read the edited post in the topic at hand and then noticed this topic and have read both pages. Considering I've been thinking about what happened, and the fact it has become a major issue, I'll post my thought's publicly. 

 

I have to admit what happened came as a bit of a shock. I've seen new topics posted before and thought I'd check them out, only for them to be locked upon entering or locked as I'm contributing, usually due to a similar topic already existing. These topics usually contain some lulz posts and then they're done with.
 

I noticed the new topic after coming home from work and thought I'd check it out. I see it's a newbie posting and then the first post after that by JezMM, followed by a few more. I assumed it was an unnecessary topic due to the nature of these posts, and after a 14 hour shift I thought it would be entertaining to think of something game related that you wouldn't really need help with. Sure, it wasn't creative, but I put thought in to it. 

 

The next thing you know the status updates are full of dislike towards everyone in the topic. Update after update aimed at those who contributed, and I couldn't help but feel that the whole thing escalated over something that at that moment in time felt minor. Pelly pretty much summed it all up in her post:

"I don't think it's a matter of these people lacking sympathy or being awful or idiots, it was a case of something that built up because people were trying to be lulzy and funny, which isn't some horrible thing, but at the same time it does undermine the fact that someone tried to make a serious and helpful topic and people disrespected it by turning it into a joke (and one that seemed very mean spirited). "

 

I consider myself a decent member. I've never been involved in any forum "riots" or stupid gif posting, and any topic I post in I try and contribute to in a positive manner. I've had enjoyable experiences selling and buying with other users on the Marketplace and I'm even donating £100 towards Summer of Sonic. I love this community and would hate to think that a stupid one off post would label me as douchebag, inconsiderate asshole, or someone who gives the SSMB a bad reputation, when on the contrary.

 

I can only apologise for my part in getting the topic locked for those of you who think it would have been a valuable addition to the forum, and to the topic starter who at this moment in time I've yet to get in touch with. I'd also like to apologize to all the staff who have had to spend their free time dealing with this situation. I don't condone the actions of myself or anyone else involved, and I understand completely that we should treat new members friendly and informatively so that they can enjoy the forum like the rest of us.

 

I hope this post reads ok. It's been another long day at work lol

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It's not a single event that we're discussing. It's a general attitude lurking about that we are trying to minimize.

 

I was speaking mainly about that help topic, which I just read through and I am ashamed that we still have to tell members how to act, I mean really people? How old are you? Its like nobody had anything better to do than to be a snarky dick and didn't bother to make anything constructive about it.

 

I can't say I am as livid about this as the mods, but is this how we're going to treat new members? And then some of you would complain on other forums how the mods are too "rough" on here, completely missing the fact that you're being immature brats and trying to be "funny". 

 

 

I'm starting to see why sites like Retro just don't let anyone onto their sites. 

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it's the same idea as history. We use it to learn from our mistakes and not do the same thing. Why do you think schools keep reminding people about the holocaust?

This and the holocaust are incomparable. One was a genocide, and the other is a little small fourm issue.

Geez, do we really have to bring that into this?

 

 

Well it's still popping up here and there (like yesterday), so I don't see the problem with a friendly reminder like this. And excuse me for being blunt, but just what the hell is your issue with talking these issues through as a community, in the interest of making SSMB a friendlier place? If you don't want to participate in the thread, you don't have to. You don't even have to ever open this thread again. Just please stop criticizing people for wanting to bring issues out in the open instead of keeping it all repressed to the point where nothing gets solved and people leave.

I have an issue with it because I find that the well-minded discussion just brings about more doom and gloom if it hangs in people's minds for too long. 

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