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Attitudes and Respect


Chris

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I'll admit it still kind of irks me when newbies bring up old subjects that have been covered before - if for no other reason than the actual board rules encouraging searching up existing threads on the same subject if you have something significant to contribute. Naturally though, altogether taking the piss out of them is the worst possible way to go about it, and sometimes it baffles me that people can't approach these situations with any semblance of tact, much less asking a staff member like they're usually meant to.

 

Of course, I'm hardly a shining beacon of tact myself, so I hope I'm not sending the wrong message here.

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If I remember correctly, Homems first post/topic was so good he got a big positive star. New members shouldn't be expected to make joke topics to laugh at.

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If I remember correctly, Homems first post/topic was so good he got a big positive star. New members shouldn't be expected to make joke topics to laugh at.

That's because it was a good topic. It was good, so people rewarded him. He made what's called, "a good first impression". 

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That's because it was a good topic. It was good, so people rewarded him. He made what's called, "a good first impression".
....I just said that. I said he made a good topic.
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I'll admit it still kind of irks me when newbies bring up old subjects that have been covered before - if for no other reason than the actual board rules encouraging searching up existing threads on the same subject if you have something significant to contribute. Naturally though, altogether taking the piss out of them is the worst possible way to go about it, and sometimes it baffles me that people can't approach these situations with any semblance of tact, much less asking a staff member like they're usually meant to.

 

Of course, I'm hardly a shining beacon of tact myself, so I hope I'm not sending the wrong message here.

 

I agree that sometimes trying to reinvent the wheel can come off as redundant. However, I feel like trying to bring up a topic from the grave such as be anti-climactic due to the fact that opinions can change over time not only because of someone's own experiences but also because of new possibilities that make old arguments dated. At the same time, I understand that the forum doesn't need to be bloated with repeat threads, but it can be a tough call to make whether to start something new or to add to an old one. I personally like the fact that the staff makes the call when someone misses an old thread, but I personally try to ask a staff whether it's OK to create a new thread if I feel it is appropriate to do so.

 

But I am not a new guy anymore, so I know the rules well. For those who have been around forever, all I am saying is to please go easy on the new guys and give them a chance to learn the rules and not pick on them over the rules.

 

The truth is we all want to feel like we were the first in the whole world to have thought of something, but if we don't make the forum a friendly place for newcomers that might be just re-telling the same old tale, we might never get to hear something original that could come out of their great minds.

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That's because it was a good topic. It was good, so people rewarded him. He made what's called, "a good first impression". 

Which is all well and dandy and all, but when someone acts like being a new member means they will most certainly make a laughably terrible thread instead of patting them on the back for what they do right and helping them fix what they did wrong, then that's just petty and unnecessarily mean.  Sure, it's true that a lot of newer members make a lot of rookie mistakes, but we should be guiding them toward improving, not sanctioning them and treating them like morons.  I know you weren't saying that, I'm just saying that's the current point of the discussion. ^^;

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If I remember correctly, Homems first post/topic was so good he got a big positive star. New members shouldn't be expected to make joke topics to laugh at.

 

Not everybody is Homem, and not everyone can articulate as well he does. We have to learn the fact that some people just have a harder time expressing themselves due to many factors: language barrier, personality, or even some form of physical/mental disability. In other words, we need to stop raising the bar for new members such that they look at us like we are a bunch of elitists, otherwise that's exactly what we will become.

Edited by tenchibr
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Which is all well and dandy and all, but when someone acts like being a new member means they will most certainly make a laughably terrible thread instead of patting them on the back for what they do right and helping them fix what they did wrong, then that's just petty and unnecessarily mean.  Sure, it's true that a lot of newer members make a lot of rookie mistakes, but we should be guiding them toward improving, not sanctioning them and treating them like morons.  I know you weren't saying that, I'm just saying that's the current point of the discussion. ^^;

Well yeah but many new members make fucking shitty topics because they can't be assed to read the goddamn rules. Can't they learn to read rules before plunging in? I read the rules thoroughly before I made my first topic, and it went over fine. 

 

I'm not saying our actions are entirely justified, but newbies aren't blameless victims either. I feel both groups have shaping up to do 

Edited by Chaos Warp
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Not everybody is Homem, and not everyone can articulate as well he does. We have to learn the fact that some people just have a harder time expressing themselves due to many factors: language barrier, personality, or even some form of physical/mental disability. In other words, we need to stop raising the bar for new members such that they look at us like we are a bunch of elitists, otherwise that's exactly what we will become.
I wasn't implying everyone can be a Homem. I was just using him as a example to back up my claim that we shouldn't just expect or go into a topic made by a newbie expecting it be a clusterfuck of words to just laugh at. Like its been said, we should help them when they fall. Not condone them. I mean, you don't yell at a baby for falling when they walk.
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Well yeah but many new members make fucking shitty topics because they can't be assed to read the goddamn rules. Can't they learn to read rules before plunging in? I read the rules thoroughly before I made my first topic, and it went over fine. 

 

I'm not saying our actions are entirely justified, but newbies aren't blameless victims. 

Okay, I will agree to that.  To be fair, though, the search feature doesn't work as well as it should, though, so in the case of accidentally recreating topics it's not entirely their fault.  However, when they make a topic that is very blatantly against the rules or a topic that is clearly on the very first page of a forum, then yes, I'll agree, they do deserve to be given some sort of reprimandation.  But on that same note, we shouldn't treat them like they can't improve based on the first thread.  Maybe on the second or third though =P

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Well yeah but many new members make fucking shitty topics because they can't be assed to read the goddamn rules. Can't they learn to read rules before plunging in? I read the rules thoroughly before I made my first topic, and it went over fine. 

 

I'm not saying our actions are entirely justified, but newbies aren't blameless victims either. I feel both groups have shaping up to do 

   I was a "victim" of this, because I read the rules and got confused about what to post at first :)

    I posted a fan club that was closed. I was confused, but then decided to ask mods about topics if i needed to, and that helped alot :)

  I think maybe a "welcome newcomers" page may be helpful, it can help give them better Ideas of what to post and what not to post, and tell them to ask mods when they have  questions :). :) sorry, not trying to be disrespectful :)

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   I was a "victim" of this, because I read the rules and got confused about what to post at first smile.png

    I posted a fan club that was closed. I was confused, but then decided to ask mods about topics if i needed to, and that helped alot smile.png

  I think maybe a "welcome newcomers" page may be helpful, it can help give them better Ideas of what to post and what not to post, and tell them to ask mods when they have  questions smile.png. smile.png sorry, not trying to be disrespectful smile.png

 

NO NEWBIES IN THIS FUCKING DISCUSSION GET THE FUCK OUT

 

No, but seriously, a "Welcome Newbies" page would be incredibly useful. That was we wouldn't have so many bad first topics, and bad situations can be avoided entirely.

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I wasn't implying everyone can be a Homem. I was just using him as a example to back up my claim that we shouldn't just expect or go into a topic made by a newbie expecting it be a clusterfuck of words to just laugh at. Like its been said, we should help them when they fall. Not condone them. I mean, you don't yell at a baby for falling when they walk.

 

Right. The way I look at it is SSMB is a powerful place that can teach you how to think well and how to write well. If one day I lose the passion I have for Sonic and move on, I know I will be taking with me knowledge from here for the rest of my life. It amazes me at how uncommon it is for people to write like we do.

 

The truth is that WE ALL ARE CAPABLE OF BEING GREAT WRITERS... However, some already are from the get-go (like Chaos, I also tried to read the rules right away) because we are used to the forum atmosphere. For those who have never joined a forum like this before, they are bound to make mistakes. It's our job to guide them in the right direction. I would like to think that if Sonic was real, he would do the same, as cheesy as it sounds.

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I once frequented a forum that had a "Tips For Surviving This Site" thread.  I think SSMB could really benefit from that.

 

It also doesn't help that the rules link is in the very bottom right corner in very small text but that's not much of an excuse really, so I'll save that argument for another day.

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Well yeah but many new members make fucking shitty topics because they can't be assed to read the goddamn rules. Can't they learn to read rules before plunging in?
And here's where I once again suggest that if you haven't got something at least neutral to say, don't say it. A misguided yet pleasant newbie will always be more receptive to a nice or at the least neutral reply to their questionable topic than a mean/snarky one. But that's besides the point anyway since it's nobodies job but the moderator's to tell a memer to read rules or admonish them, so the subject of established members thinking it's their right to pass some kind of posted judgement on a topic is a case of them stepping up beyond their actual authority and is rule-breaking because it can be seen as a form of backseat modding.
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the subject of established members thinking it's their right to pass some kind of posted judgement on a topic is a case of them stepping up beyond their actual authority and is rule-breaking because it can be seen as a form of backseat modding.

 

Just making sure: so basically I should stop linking the Rules page if I see a new member posted something off? I thought it was OK if I didn't outright say so, but kind of hinted "Hey, you should take a look at this first." I do that to avoid what I expect to be more posts that go against the rules, but if doing that is prohibited, I will stop from now on.

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 Vertekin's post above and Nepenthe's post in knucklesgirl's thread really got me thinking, actually.  If such a "How to Survive on SSMB" thread ever did get made, then there needs to be a clear explanation as to where the mods draw the line between "helping another member out" and "backseat modding."  If I give a friendly reminder that something is against the rules, is it just as much backseat modding as someone who is pretending to stand in for an authoritative figure?

Edited by Akito
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Hey, here's an idea:

 

How about a 50 post requirement before a thread can be made? That way Newbies have a chance to figure out what this place is like and we don't get shitty "HEy guys what about 06? XD" topics everytime someone joins?

 

And don't give me that "we don't like to restrict new members like that" crap. It's a countermeasure plenty of forums use and it works almost flawlessly.

 

Though I don't know why I'm saying this. All I'm going to get is responses as to why the current system works when it obviously doesn't when we have threads like this every 3 months.

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Hey, here's an idea:

 

How about a 50 post requirement before a thread can be made? That way Newbies have a chance to figure out what this place is like and we don't get shitty "HEy guys what about 06? XD" topics everytime someone joins?

 

And don't give me that "we don't like to restrict new members like that" crap. It's a countermeasure plenty of forums use and it works almost flawlessly.

 

Though I don't know why I'm saying this. All I'm going to get is responses as to why the current system works when it obviously doesn't when we have threads like this every 3 months.

I wouldn't mind taking that sort of system out for a test drive, actually.  The problem is that creating a reply and creating a thread are two completely different things.  It's easier to think of a reply to a current discussion than it is to think of an all new discussion, and once members reach that 50 post minimum, then they're likely to take advantage of it by posting the very first thing on their mind... which if you come from some of the forums that I do, is usually the ability to post topics. =/

 

Again, not saying I would be against testing this out, but I don't see it working for this forum in particular.

Edited by Akito
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Just making sure: so basically I should stop linking the Rules page if I see a new member posted something off? I thought it was OK if I didn't outright say so, but kind of hinted "Hey, you should take a look at this first." I do that to avoid what I expect to be more posts that go against the rules, but if doing that is prohibited, I will stop from now on.
Well back in the old days of SSMB, we had the Station Square Meet n' Greet subforum in which newbies could create one topic in which to introduce themselves. It was a strictly-enforced rule that other members were not allowed to tell newbies to read the rules because it was considered backseat modding. I don't know if this rule is still enforced considering the lack of introductory topics. Maybe a mod can clarify?
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And here's where I once again suggest that if you haven't got something at least neutral to say, don't say it. 

So what you're saying is you want to stop people from saying bad things about stuff.

 

Never gonna happen if we keep having topics about Sonic games that not everyone likes. Do you expect them to not contribute to discussion because they don't like the game?

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So what you're saying is you want to stop people from saying bad things about stuff.

 

Never gonna happen if we keep having topics about Sonic games that not everyone likes. Do you expect them to not contribute to discussion because they don't like the game?

There's ways to express yourself about things you don't like without making everyone that does like it feel like shit about themselves.

 

 

Generally though- when people are talking about something I either don't like or am not interested in, I just ignore it. It works well. Not to say every thread should be a circlejerk, but yea

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Well back in the old days of SSMB, we had the Station Square Meet n' Greet subforum in which newbies could create one topic in which to introduce themselves. It was a strictly-enforced rule that other members were not allowed to tell newbies to read the rules because it was considered backseat modding. I don't know if this rule is still enforced considering the lack of introductory topics. Maybe a mod can clarify?

The Meet n' Greet forum was removed due to it causing an unrealistic barrier for new members that isn't common on a forum. Backseat moderation is still against the rules but more often than not goes under the radar at the moment. 

 

Hey, here's an idea:

 

How about a 50 post requirement before a thread can be made? That way Newbies have a chance to figure out what this place is like and we don't get shitty "HEy guys what about 06? XD" topics everytime someone joins?

 

And don't give me that "we don't like to restrict new members like that" crap. It's a countermeasure plenty of forums use and it works almost flawlessly.

 

Though I don't know why I'm saying this. All I'm going to get is responses as to why the current system works when it obviously doesn't when we have threads like this every 3 months.

The current system does work. It isn't the attitude of newer members that is the issue here, but rather that of established ones.

How we handle it at the moment isn't perfect, but I do not believe a post restriction is the answer. That sounds like short term gain for a long term annoyance.

 

Well yeah but many new members make fucking shitty topics because they can't be assed to read the goddamn rules. Can't they learn to read rules before plunging in? I read the rules thoroughly before I made my first topic, and it went over fine.

Precisely the type of attitude that this announcement was created to address. Italics added in problem areas. smile.png

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Precisely the type of attitude that this announcement was created to address. Italics added in problem areas. smile.png

So if I removed/changed those three italicized things it would be literally fine?

 

If so, maybe I worded the post somewhat harshly but my point still stands.

Edited by Chaos Warp
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