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Attitudes and Respect


Chris

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As for people joking, this is the Internet. It can be very hard tell if someone is joking or not unless explicitly stated they are not being too serious.

 

"As for I am funny you are not" well that is pretty subjective.

 

I know its frustrating when you post something as a joke and it gets taken at face value.

 

This probably been said to death but its very difficult to perceive a joke on internet. As dumb as it sounds. sleep.png

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...

 

I'll be honest. The first thing when I saw the topic, I kinda predicted, "Hey, new member. Of course SSMB will pull out its welcoming attitude! Definetely, of course! I mean, when hasn't it!" (sacrasm of course, since our record with this in recent times... Despite being told so many times, is just bad) 

 

But MAN. That was flat out bad. Only a few people were even doing anything useful. The others were just like, hey I get it some jokes are nice but we don't need two pages full of totally pointless jokes when the point of the topic is to like help. 

 

I mean, if I were the guy that made the thread, I'd feel flat out bad, I'd prolly never come back. I'd rather people have not replied and I not havin to feel irrespected.

 

You know guys, when I joined SSMB, it was this place full of fun. Generations hype, but it wasn't hostile like it is now. It was rather... fun, or so I felt as much as I lurked. I enjoyed it, I stayed. 

 

This kinda thing that is happening nowadays gives off a really bad impression and status. People immediately want to leave and just... wow.

 

We've done well.

 

I guess we could learn and move on, I say next time we see something like this, we guide the new member and also, reply to their topic and don't make fun of them.

 

also chaos warp. could i just ask you. are you trying to say being all edgy, 'funny', with heavy, irrespectful attitudes is the way to go? I mean, you're like 16? It's the average high school popular kid attitude, not trying to stereotype. Cos honestly it just doesn't work like that. That's what I felt but that aside, I really don't get why this is bothering you so much?

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The zero tolerance thing is a bit TOO harsh because as a member that often questions back about justification for actions taken against me, Mods and staff tend to scoff and sulk at me trying to make sense of why I am being punished for something that in some cases.

 

I'm wondering if adding to the 3 strike, you're out rule will perhaps help this Zero Tolerance stuff, Strikes are handed out when something particular bad and snide happens, or someone is a bigger asshole than the other asshole, so instead of dishing out strikes, why not keep a tally of a member with warnings? something like, 5 warnings and you automatically get a strike? Of course Mods and Admins can issue strikes off the bat for much serious means of punishment or even suspension, but that's just my idea.

 

Just means the Mod's would need to have more patience in these situations though.

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Okay I know it's been reiterated several times that this is about discussing existing members but I could think of ONE minor thing that could be done with regards to newer members.

 

When I got my strike I noticed in order to post again I had to unlock the post box by clicking a little link saying "I acknowledged" the action that was taken against me.  Could this code be used just to make a simple box in a similar style to make new members click a thing saying that they have read the rules before posting?  Naturally it doesn't guarantee they'll read them but hopefully it still might motivate some to.

 

The topic the other day was not shitty at all but it might prevent the occasional shitty topic, I dunno.  I just think no matter how nice the veterans are and how vigilant we are with reporting topics... what's gonna be the point when topics are still being opened and locked/deleted all over the shop.  I mean there doesn't seem to be much of it lately but we could have another surge of it I dunno, just food for thought.

 

 

 

Honestly I think the topic has moved this way because there's only so many ways you can say to members "can you please be a bit nicer" and there's only so many ways to say "yes okay".  There's literally no reason to not say "yes okay".

 

 

 

The real issue for me from all this that affects me is where one draws the line on what is acceptable as humour-only posts or whether they're acceptable at all because I'm still adamant I did nothing wrong in that topic.  But god it just kills humour when you start putting rules and regulations on it.  Even something simple like an unwritten rule regarding a suggested "okay stop now" point would have caused numerous memorable joke-fests in topics that hurt no-one to have been punishment worthy in the past.

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It seemed patronising as all hell to me, joking about needing genuine assistance being equatable to bone-headed stupidity.

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On that note though, I tried to make the post still have relevant content to the topic in question, so with that in mind, if I have nothing to contribute to the topic but I feel like said "polite nudge" is necessary, are we allowed to PM new members as such?

 

I used to do this way back. As long as you are being nice and welcoming about it, and not sounding like someone with supreme authority forcing them, I would say feel free to do so.

 

 

The real issue for me from all this that affects me is where one draws the line on what is acceptable as humour-only posts or whether they're acceptable at all because I'm still adamant I did nothing wrong in that topic.  But god it just kills humour when you start putting rules and regulations on it.  Even something simple like an unwritten rule regarding a suggested "okay stop now" point would have caused numerous memorable joke-fests in topics that hurt no-one to have been punishment worthy in the past.

 

I was travelling at the time, so I was not involved in the event. The content in itself was good and funny, but it seems to me as a case of "the right place at the wrong time". We started allowing light-hearted posts and jokes from time to time, especially if the member in question tends to make posts with effort all other times. However I feel it might also be important to look at the current state of a topic. If a topic is not doing well or is entirely fresh, it is more important to add discussion and serious value to it in order to keep it alive, as otherwise may disrupt discussion value, cause chain reactions of derailing it and/or relieve it from its purpose.

 

In yesterday's case, there was a fresh new topic which, as it turns out, was more receptive to derailing and silliness than usual. My view has always been that not only the topic author, but also the first to reply has a certain responsibility to stand as an example for the rest of the topic. It may not always seem that way, but to me anyway, at that early point in a topic's lifetime, the quality and fate of a topic is often decided, so I think it is always important to add serious content in the first post in order to sparkle life into a topic. ^^

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Take a look at this profile. Yes, this right here.

 

This a profound example of how members' actions can affect others personally. We may not know both sides of the story regarding this situation, but it's still something worthy for reference on how our behaviors can affect or change people.

Okay with that member I probably can't go into detail but there's a massive other side to the story.

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I'm liking Chaos' post because it's true, surrounding that member during that time frame was a lot of Mod activity, I do agree that being verbally insulted is not called for though, despite what he wrote in his topic.

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Yeah, that situation with that member in paticular is a whole other debate. Might not be best to get into it.

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I was travelling at the time, so I was not involved in the event. The content in itself was good and funny, but it seems to me as a case of "the right place at the wrong time". We started allowing light-hearted posts and jokes from time to time, especially if the member in question tends to make posts with effort all other times. However I feel it might also be important to look at the current state of a topic. If a topic is not doing well or is entirely fresh, it is more important to add discussion and serious value to it in order to keep it alive, as otherwise may disrupt discussion value, cause chain reactions of derailing it and/or relieve it from its purpose.

 

In yesterday's case, there was a fresh new topic which, as it turns out, was more receptive to derailing and silliness than usual. My view has always been that not only the topic author, but also the first to reply has a certain responsibility to stand as an example for the rest of the topic. It may not always seem that way, but to me anyway, at that early point in a topic's lifetime, the quality and fate of a topic is often decided, so I think it is always important to add serious content in the first post in order to sparkle life into a topic. ^^

 

I understand and agree with this logic actually.  I'd certainly observe that in future.  I guess I'm peeved because this has never ever happened before so this punishment literally came out of nowhere and was completely unnecessary.

 

While I admit I assume partial responsibility, I will say when I see a fresh topic my first post is usually always a direct response to the OP.  I don't let other people's posts dictate my own original take on the topic and no-one else should either.

Edited by JezMM
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This situation is the main reason why I made this topic: 

 

Seriously guys, I thought this answer was straightforward from Carbo

 

 

 

Ask yourself; is the topic something that you actually think is a topic worth having? Is it something you actually believe is worth discussing? Is it something you think couldn't be better off as a miniature discussion or question on the status box instead? Most rules we have can ideally be accounted under the "common sense" blanket term.

Having a conversation with someone in a status update? Use the Profile Feed comments. Or the PM system.

The question of a topic with "discussion value" is one which can never be objectively classified, but mostly it's a place where both objectivity and subjectivity can have its place, and that's certainly not a list topic or a clean cut ask-question-get-answer deal. Sometimes we hold off on locking things for a while before we take action for just such reason in order to figure out where we stand on a topic, but while we do get reports from time to time that support a mod's general notion of finding a topic unworthy before we take action, if there's a problem with our decision, you're always free to contact a staff member and voice your opinion reasonably. 

 

 

Apparently, common sense can never be common. What one member sees as "potential" the other sees as "poop".

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This situation is the main reason why I made this topic: 

 

Seriously guys, I thought this answer was straightforward from Carbo

 

 

 

Apparently, common sense can never be common. What one member sees as "potential" the other sees as "poop".

That's why I often think that for most cases, instead of locking topics with no discussion value, I think mods should just let the topic die on its own.  There are some exceptions, of course.  For example, if a topic is nothing but a series of one or two-word replies or otherwise violates one or more rules, then yes, that clearly does not belong here.  Nevertheless, someone thought it had value, so it shouldn't be considered a serious offense.  That is, unless they show clear defiance against the staff's decision to lock the thread.

Edited by Akito
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That's why I often think that for most cases, instead of locking topics with no discussion value, I think mods should just let the topic die on its own.

 

Well, in most cases it's locked not because it will get no replies, but because any replies it does get will be, well, crap. The OP and first few posts in a topic new set the precedent and the standard for what follows.

 

That recent topic was locked because the first few replies were jokes, therefore setting that as a standard and causing the quality of the thread to drop rapidly

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Well, in most cases it's locked not because it will get no replies, but because any replies it does get will be, well, crap. The OP and first few posts in a topic new set the precedent and the standard for what follows.

 

That recent topic was locked because the first few replies were jokes, therefore setting that as a standard and causing the quality of the thread to drop rapidly

Well, okay, I can see that.  I just don't think the topic starter should be blamed just because no one else cares about their topic.  I wasn't referring to the the case with the Sonic Level Assistance thread, as it was the members' replies that were given the blame, not the OP.  In addition, I think instead of just closing a topic and saying "Don't make useless topics" we should could stand to do a better job at explaining what a good topic is and why the topic that was made was not such a good topic.  I'm referring to both members and staff here.

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So if I removed/changed those three italicized things it would be literally fine?

If so, maybe I worded the post somewhat harshly but my point still stands.

No it wouldn't, and no it doesn't. The issue isn't the words you used. The issue is the concept you're selling. That new members need a firmer hand to make them follow the rules than older ones; even though newer members at least have a reason that they might not be completely clued in on forum ettiquette here.

Specifically:

I'm not saying our actions are entirely justified, but newbies aren't blameless victims either. I feel both groups have shaping up to do

Think about what you're impying here. That a new member who makes a mistake deserves some of the blame when a dozen members who have been here since the forum reboot pile on him and make him feel like shit for making that mistake; rather than just gently reminding him what the issue is or (better) letting a moderator do so.

How does that make any sense?

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Think about what you're impying here. That a new member who makes a mistake deserves some of the blame when a dozen members who have been here since the forum reboot pile on him and make him feel like shit for making that mistake; rather than just gently reminding him what the issue is or (better) letting a moderator do so.

How does that make any sense?

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that newbies should read the rules before randomly jumping in to make topics, so none of this ever happens in the first place. 

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I do feel these threads tend to let things snowball out of proportions, since the "Ok everyone, let's sit on the round table and discuss shit because it has gotten serious" attitude creates an atmosphere of... well, of things being more serious than they are, really.

A thread was made. It was a good thread, and it died in a chain of shitty posts. Report everyone publicly, delete the infringing posts, and carry on- don't make a "state of the nation " speech.

I've always been of the opinion that a forum is a contract between the user and the administration and their rules. And so far as you're following the rules, you can make posts about dead babies exploding and no-one should be able to complain- or rather, their complaint shouldn't be taken as something to be addressed, as both the dead baby jokes and the complaining are free to be made under the rules.

I don't know, this is rambling at this point I suppose. I suppose what I'm saying is, delete infringing posts (suggestion- make like Retro and move them to a publicly- available Trash subforum), remind people of the rules, actually give visible warnings and bans (I've done many posts in this forum heatingly insulting people, but my chart is clean. I suppose I haven't broken any specific rules, then? I hope I'm not being excused, resulting in pent-up passive-aggressive-ness later on), and tell everyone to remove their sticks from their behinds. No-one should be forced to be polite to others, but if the rules say "insult people get warning", that should happen.

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No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that newbies should read the rules before randomly jumping in to make topics, so none of this ever happens in the first place. 

 

 

How about not reacting snarkily to a 'questionable' topic in the first place?

 

Works both ways.

 

It's not 'Newbie jumps to make 'questionable' topic' that's the only so-called 'problem', it's the reactions to it by members who should know better, who are clearly doing so to whore rep and who seem to make it their sworn duty to bolster some sort of attitude and who are in no way, shape or form justified and neither are they in any position whatsoever in taking a 'hardline' approach to a topic they personally consider pointless/stupid/whatever.

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I do feel these threads tend to let things snowball out of proportions, since the "Ok everyone, let's sit on the round table and discuss shit because it has gotten serious" attitude creates an atmosphere of... well, of things being more serious than they are, really.

A thread was made. It was a good thread, and it died in a chain of shitty posts. Report everyone publicly, delete the infringing posts, and carry on- don't make a "state of the nation " speech.

I've always been of the opinion that a forum is a contract between the user and the administration and their rules. And so far as you're following the rules, you can make posts about dead babies exploding and no-one should be able to complain- or rather, their complaint shouldn't be taken as something to be addressed, as both the dead baby jokes and the complaining are free to be made under the rules.

I don't know, this is rambling at this point I suppose. I suppose what I'm saying is, delete infringing posts (suggestion- make like Retro and move them to a publicly- available Trash subforum), remind people of the rules, actually give visible warnings and bans (I've done many posts in this forum heatingly insulting people, but my chart is clean. I suppose I haven't broken any specific rules, then? I hope I'm not being excused, resulting in pent-up passive-aggressive-ness later on), and tell everyone to remove their sticks from their behinds. No-one should be forced to be polite to others, but if the rules say "insult people get warning", that should happen.

Thanks man, this is what I've been trying to say but couldn't. You said it better then I could. 

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Why exactly should we make visible trash posts and warnings aside from publicly embarrassing members? We're not here to make members feel like shit about themselves, when we give someone a strike, it's an action that we want only the member in question and us mods to reflect on. We have maintained from day one that mod actions always happen for a reason, but you are never entitled to know any behind the scenes stuff.

Oh and before anyone claims that by this reasoning we should privately warn members when a topic publicly gets out of hand, we make public warnings to members because we do not tolerate members breaking the rules and so we tell them right there on the spot that if they're going to act ridiculous in public, then we'll remind them as such right then and there. Whether you are involved or not, you should always use the situation as a learning experience to keep your own behavior in check for the future, but there is absolutely no reason why you should be reminded of who specifically was responsible for the incidents in question when this is knowledge that we want all members to understand and cooperate with, and thus the perpetrators' identities become almost immediately irrelevant afterwards. Visible strikes amount to nothing more than a badge of dishonor for the member in question.

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No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that newbies should read the rules before randomly jumping in to make topics, so none of this ever happens in the first place.

Then you are saying it, because it's not a newbie's fault in the slightest that the old guard members can't help but be assholes in response to topics they don't deem worthy of being on SSMB.

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