Sonic Lost World: Analysis, Fan Reception and Defense

[Kuzu]

There is no excuse, Sega just can't come out and say they don't wanna use the characters because they know that would piss off a massive portion of the fanbase, so they just feed us excuses and false hope.

[Gatestormer]

I would say there is an excuse. 

 

Development time.

 

Time is money, and SEGA need Sonic to be out there as fast as possible, Sonic Team aren't an enormous studio either so that puts another strain on them. Since going 3rd party, I'd say the games they've produced that have been of the best quality, have been those where there were few alternate playstyles/characters. 

 

Sonic games are usually developed over a 2/3 year timeframe in order to keep a steady release flow. That development time is essentially locked down, SEGA can't afford 4/5 years on one game. So because of that, if we want more content within that timeframe, quality must be sacrificed in order to compensate. I would much rather have a quality game just playing as Sonic than a mediocre game where I can play as other characters as well. 

 

The best they can do for the time being is make use of other characters in the narrative, which seems to be happening in this game. 

Edited August 23, 2013 by Gatestormer

[Kuzu]

You say that, and yet the games that had most playable characters came out with only a year separating then.

[Gatestormer]

You say that, and yet the games that had most playable characters came out with only a year separating then.

Which games are you referring to?

[Chaos Warp]

You say that, and yet the games that had most playable characters came out with only a year separating then.

But did those alt playable characters actually play well....................

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

well, true you had sonic 2, 3&K, chaotix(Max at that point, and main one with each character having a unique skill set), Sonic R, SA1&2, Shuffle(yes its a spinoff but still), heroes, and '06
Almost every game since technicly 2 has had multiple characters playable in some form or another, its a major part of the games heritage now

Edited August 23, 2013 by Mandobardanjusik

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But did those alt playable characters actually play well....................

Depends. Some just played completely the same as each other in Heroes. Others not so much in the Adventures. And in other cases where they ditched alt playable characters, they still didn't do any better if ShTH is anything to go by when Shadow was the only playable character.

 

And then there's Unleashed and Generations, both of which had two different styles of play and yet only one of them was praised. So it's not so black-and-white that alt playable characters suffer while a single style of play does better. It's a matter of quality whether you going by 1 character or several of them, because throughout all this time, they still had the time to make entirely new concepts such as the Wisps, the Werehog (which wasn't well-recieved), or even make an attempt to bring Classic Sonic as a playable character.

 

So whatever the case may be for not having other playable characters, let's not make a fallacy that implies having more playable characters makes other parts of the game suffer, shall we?

Edited August 24, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Metal the Mario]

Is this the topic where we air our grievances with the game so far?  If so, I'll bite.

 

First of all, I want to say that I believe Sonic Lost World is shaping up to be a fun game-- something that Sonic essentially needs right now in order to continue his climb toward becoming great again.  I've warmed up a lot to the new gameplay style, and I can see why some people believe that this is the direction the series should be going in from now on.  I respect those opinions.  But, for me, there are two main reasons why I'm still personally a bit turned off by the game.

 

1. The art style is jarring.  This is most certainly beating a dead horse (and it isn't my biggest gripe), but I'm still going to come right out and say it.  Yes, I'm all for the series trying new things and not taking itself too seriously, but I just think that the shift toward a more cartoony atmosphere could have been a bit more... subtle?  I find it far too loud and cutesy, even for an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog.  Even the Genesis games, those with some of the most vibrant aesthetics the series has ever had, were aiming to achieve at least some degree of realism in their environments with the limitations of the time period.  I suppose the art style could work for someone new to the franchise, but for someone who grew up on environments like this:

 

 

It's a bit difficult to adjust to something like this:

 

 

2. This game continues the trend of diminishing the series as a "universe."  Like others, I had hoped that other playable characters would finally return after Generations now that the gameplay formula had finally been "perfected" in that game.  What are we getting instead?  Another game of only Sonic playable, only a handful of his friends returning as side characters, and having Wisps to fill in other abilities.

 

However, for me, this complaint isn't really for gameplay reasons.  The reason I miss other playable characters (or even non-playables besides Tails having significant roles) is that they played a large part in fleshing out the Sonic series as its own universe.  Usually, when another character is important enough to be playable in a Sonic game, you would have a better idea of their own goals and motivations, or even their own perspective on the game's story (such as Amy in SA1 or Silver in '06).  With most of these characters either gone or reduced to minimal significance since Unleashed, the series has felt less like a gradually sprawling universe and more like simply continuing installments of "Sonic goes to ___ to beat ___ and save ___."

 

In games like SA1, SA2, Heroes, and even ShtH, you actually felt somewhat of a sense of continuity.  Events like Tails triumphing over the Egg Walker in SA1 were referenced in SA2, and parts of ShtH's story made callbacks to SA2 and even Heroes.  When new characters were introduced, they actually stuck around and contributed to the story (despite being labeled as "Sonic's shitty friends" later on).  What annoys me is that this sense of world-building has been thrown out the window for the past 5+ years, and Lost World has somehow managed to distance the series even further from it through its premise and visuals-- almost proudly so.  If I were a young kid today who just got into Sonic in the past few years, I would know next to nothing about characters like Blaze, Shadow, or even Knuckles.  I would also wonder how the more recent games were even connected at all.

 

Basically, while I'm glad that the series is trying something new, I just see this game as yet another point of inconsistency for the franchise, and yet another cold shoulder to the worlds and characters introduced within the last 15 years.

[Diogenes]

I suppose the art style could work for someone new to the franchise, but for someone who grew up on environments like this:

*snip* 

It's a bit difficult to adjust to something like this:

*snip*

And for someone who grew up on this:

It was a bit difficult to adjust to this:

2. This game continues the trend of diminishing the series as a "universe."  Like others, I had hoped that other playable characters would finally return after Generations now that the gameplay formula had finally been "perfected" in that game.  What are we getting instead?  Another game of only Sonic playable, only a handful of his friends returning as side characters, and having Wisps to fill in other abilities.

Previous games have proven well that forcing a bunch of shit into a game does not inherently make it better. The fact that this game isn't forcing the entire dozen-plus characters into it, or making them all playable, doesn't mean shit as far as how well they're characterized. We barely know anything about the game's story and not one single thing about how Amy and Knuckles are used in it, so there's really no grounds to complain about this.

[Kuzu]

I personally felt the transition from the classic era to the dreamcast era was a lot more graceful. It helps that the change wasn't brought on babe cause of excessive criticism of what came before.

[Diogenes]

I'm not sure how several years of basically fuckall could soften the change more than the transition from '06->Unleashed->Colors->Generations->SLoW.

[Metal the Mario]

I personally felt the transition from the classic era to the dreamcast era was a lot more graceful. It helps that the change wasn't brought on babe cause of excessive criticism of what came before.

Pretty much this.  SA1 was where the developers actually wanted to take Sonic in 3D during this time, and not because of whether or not the fans or critics liked the games before it.  That game (at least the Dreamcast version) was also a pretty good buffer between the classics and the more realistic outings of SA2-onward.

 

Diogenes, I do see your point about Unleashed -> Lost World.  But strictly coming from Generations, which seemed like it would define Sonic's "style" from then on, the change to Lost World's particular art direction is a bit jarring for my tastes.

 

Also, the whole continuity thing has been happening since Unleashed, but this game kind of magnified it ten-fold for me because of that direction.  At least with Unleashed, Colors, and Generations I could somewhat see the possibility of that Sonic being the same one who experienced the events of SA1/SA2/Heroes/'06.  But for the first time, I don't feel that with this game.

Edited August 30, 2013 by SuperUsername64

[Diogenes]

Diogenes, I do see your point about Unleashed -> Lost World.  But strictly coming from Generations, which seemed like it would define Sonic's "style" from then on, the change to Lost World's particular art direction is a bit jarring for my tastes.

 

Also, the whole continuity thing has been happening since Unleashed, but this game kind of magnified it ten-fold for me because of that direction.  At least with Unleashed, Colors, and Generations I could somewhat see the possibility of that Sonic being the same one who experienced the events of SA1/SA2/Heroes/'06.  But for the first time, I don't feel that with this game.

Don't blame the game for your own faulty assumptions.

[Metal the Mario]

Don't blame the game for your own faulty assumptions.

It's a "faulty assumption" that I dislike the fact that the game does even more to ignore the previous timeline both in aesthetics and story than the games before it?

 

That's just, like, my opinion, man.

[Kuzu]

I'm not sure how several years of basically fuckall could soften the change more than the transition from '06->Unleashed->Colors->Generations->SLoW.

Well for one, they eased us into it with teasers of new redesigns and shit.

Meanwhile All of the games you listed came out at least two years from each other.

[Diogenes]

It's a "faulty assumption" that I dislike the fact that the game does even more to ignore the previous timeline both in aesthetics and story than the games before it?

The idea that it's abandoning anything storywise is entirely in your head. We barely know anything about the story and what we do know has not the slightest hint of abandoning anything. And do you really believe the jump between Generations and SLoW is greater than the jump between, say, SA2 and Heroes? Or Heroes and ShtH (or '06 if you were to insist on leaving ShtH out)? Or '06 and Unleashed?

[Metal the Mario]

The idea that it's abandoning anything storywise is entirely in your head. We barely know anything about the story and what we do know has not the slightest hint of abandoning anything.

Fair enough-- I'll still wait and see what the story has to offer, but I personally don't believe it will reference anything pre-Colors anytime soon.  Even a little nod like "After being turned into a Werehog, this is nothing!" would be cool.

And do you really believe the jump between Generations and SLoW is greater than the jump between, say, SA2 and Heroes? Or Heroes and ShtH (or '06 if you were to insist on leaving ShtH out)? Or '06 and Unleashed?

Honestly, yes.  For slightly different reasons, but yes.

 

- Sure, Heroes' environments were less gritty and Sonic's reaction to seeing Shadow again was weird, but that game didn't really feel out-of-place to me.  It had settings that made me think more of SA1 and many of the same menu aesthetics and sound effects from the previous game (it even featured the same main font, Vipnagorgialla).  Plus, there was Team Dark's story which showed that the events of SA2 weren't forgotten.  The gameplay of the Speed characters was also similar and easy to adjust to if you played SA2.

 

- ShtH was much darker than Heroes, but playing as Shadow (without the weapons at least) still felt similar to Heroes, and ShtH even went so far as to use the same engine.  A scene from Heroes is even referenced in one of the neutral endings in which Shadow believes he is a clone and that the real Shadow died.  The environments brought back more SA2 vibes, but still felt like they were in the same universe.

 

- '06 and Unleashed was the greatest jump of the three for sure, especially since it removed many of the characters, but it somehow didn't bother me that much.  Unleashed had more realistic environments which wouldn't have looked too out-of-place in '06, as well as many of the same sound effects.  While it was the start of the Sola Sonica trend, it actually felt refreshing at the time and more like a one-time thing than what we have now.  (Also, I have a personal bias toward the game. )

 

Generations temporarily brought everything together in a celebration of Sonic's history and made everything feel "Sonic-y" and like it all took place in the same timeline, which I loved despite its nonexistent story.  To me, Lost World seems (keyword: seems) to be disregarding all of that, which rubs me the wrong way.  Something about it just doesn't feel "Sonic-y" compared to the other games so far, and that's my own personal view.

 

I will say this, though:  If Sega is actually planning to start a coherent timeline from this game onward as sort of a reboot, than I'd be all for it.  I'd just like some consistency for once.

Edited August 30, 2013 by SuperUsername64

[Autosaver]

 Even a little nod like "After being turned into a Werehog, this is nothing!" would be cool.

 

I don't want to remember that.

[Diogenes]

Fair enough-- I'll still wait and see what the story has to offer, but I personally don't believe it will reference anything pre-Colors anytime soon.

Most of the series doesn't reference more than a game or two back, if that.

Honestly, yes.  For slightly different reasons, but yes.

I can't really comment on these, because they sound a lot like "but this time it's different, because...it just is!"

To me, Lost World seems (keyword: seems) to be disregarding all of that, which rubs me the wrong way.

But why? We've got a Green Hill lookalike, classic badniks and animals, the wisps returning, and Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Orbot, and Cubot as supporting characters. As far as Sonic games go this is pretty well-connected.

[Scar]

No evidence of the established continuity being totally abandoned so far.

[Kuzu]

They don't really try to tie anything together either tho, at least compared to previously.

[Metal the Mario]

I'm not going to lie-- sometimes I do have to resort to the "it just is!" thing because I have trouble putting those reasons into words, even though they're definitely there.  It's the little things that I just feel, and my thought process is somewhat based on that.

 

As for everything else, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree for now.  For some reason, arguing like this always really stresses me out, even though it shouldn't.

[Harley Quinn]

On complaints of the art shift being jarring, and from someone who grew up equally with Classic and Modern games; it really isn't that jarring considering what franchises like Batman and Harry Potter have gone through. It adds variety and it'd get boring fast if SEGA and Sonic Team used the same art style over and over and over again.

[Metal the Mario]

After some reflecting, I've decided to come back to this topic at my own risk.  Mostly because I wanted to respond to this:

But why? We've got a Green Hill lookalike, classic badniks and animals, the wisps returning, and Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Orbot, and Cubot as supporting characters. As far as Sonic games go this is pretty well-connected.

You're right about this. Having all of those elements sounds great on paper and should make the game feel Sonic-y to me like the others.

 

So... why does it still not feel that way to me right now, based on what I've seen?  I've realized that even I can't put my finger on it. Sonic games have tried all kinds of new things in the past while still capturing that feeling to me, so why is this one different?  Is it the new gameplay or the level design?  Is it the designs of the Deadly Six?  Is it just because I'm a late '90s/early '00s kid of the Adventure era (even though I also grew up with the classics)? I just don't know anymore.

 

I mean, it's not like I want this game to fail or anything. I want to see what everyone else sees in this game.  For some reason, though, I just can't. I don't feel I'm in the wrong for that, but seeing as the general opinion is almost universally opposite of mine, I find it a little unsettling, you know? This is the first Sonic game to ever make me feel this way.

[ArtFenix]

I feel the same way. This is the first time when the game doesn't feel Sonic-y enough and in fact resembles Mario more than Sonic! Even Colors still felt like a Sonic game which borrowed some small things from Mario.

I can't point my finger at what exactly is wrong with SLoW. I mean, I hate a lot of things already but I can't exactly explain why it looks more like a Mario instead of being Sonic-y. Guess it's the art direction, the tubes and planetoids and the overall atmosphere but yeah..lots of people will disagree.