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SEGA sample origin discovery thread "Finding the DNA of SEGA's music since summer of 2013!"


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ThunderShark

Well, lookie what I found. Another interesting drum sample, this time in Sonic Advance's "Secret Base Zone Act 1" (patch 127, bank 0 in the game's soundfont).

 

https://app.box.com/s/6vbf68wq97ltz3x4n8vt

 

I either haven't heard the source for this or don't remember it, so if anyone recognizes it, let me know.

 

Following up on this, I've decided to begin going through the soundtracks for all of the Sonic Advance games as well as Sonic Battle to hunt down samples. I just got to "X-Zone" in Sonic Advance, and believe it or not, the drum channel in that level also uses patch 127, bank 0. Here's the drum channel cut down to just the actual content, as there's a lot of time in the song before the drums actually kick in.

 

https://app.box.com/s/nlpo5zppvus09msqmhgc

 

Again, help figuring out the origin of this sample is greatly appreciated. By the way, I also found a very interesting guitar in "Neo Green Hill Zone Act 2," though it's a bit more difficult to figure out as a sample because the notes span several patches, although they are mainly concentrated in patch 84, bank 0. If anybody does want me to extract it or any other channel in the Sonic GBA games, let me know. From now on, I'll try to group together several samples into one post, so I don't end up flooding the thread with a bunch of individual ones.

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Arcade Child

I'd certainly be interested in what other samples you could extract from the Advance games; there's a quite a few interesting samples and hooks buried in the mix that I'd like to make use of myself, as well as listen to clearer to see if I can track down the origins. There's a few drum breaks across the games I'm sure I've heard in places before.

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Boss: Knuckles from Advance 2 and Bomber Barbara from Rush are both notable of using the pattern of that iconic drum break from Amen, Brother, but I think it's simply a recreation of the pattern and we're not in any way hearing the very same drums entirely.

 

I could be mistaken on that, though.

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Boss: Knuckles from Advance 2 and Bomber Barbara from Rush are both notable of using the pattern of that iconic drum break from Amen, Brother, but I think it's simply a recreation of the pattern and we're not in any way hearing the very same drums entirely.

 

I could be mistaken on that, though.

 

No, the Knuckles boss theme is definitely the Amen Break, just GBA-ized. I'd recognize it anywhere.

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No, the Knuckles boss theme is definitely the Amen Break, just GBA-ized. I'd recognize it anywhere.

 

As for Bomber Barbara, it's just the same pattern with different drum hit samples, correct?

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As for Bomber Barbara, it's just the same pattern with different drum hit samples, correct?

 

Well, it's the same break, but it's chopped up differently. Knux boss is like this, BB is like this.

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ThunderShark

This one comes from The X-Static Goldmine, Disc 1.

 

So what you're saying is, the whole story about Naofumi Hataya putting in his own vocals was a lie?

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ThunderShark

 

At 0:08

 

Definitely sounds like the right words, but the crowd is too prominent for it to be the sample.

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  • 7 months later...

Oooookay. Let's clear up here...

 

So SSMB's had a crash and subsequently all sample research since July posted on here has gone down the drain. Luckily I always keep note of this stuff, and I'm sure if I'm missing anything others like Kurachi or Diz will come to fill in.

 

We now have every single vocal sample used in Sonic Rush with the exception of two, the "billeh billeh" from Ska Cha Cha and the "hee" grunt from Metal Scratchin'.

 

Other notable uncovers include the guitar riff that was used in both the "Something Jazzy" remix of Boarder 70 from Ollie King and later Windmill Isle Day from Sonic Unleashed, the main vocals of Teknopathetic from Jet Set Radio Future (the vocals from Brother Goes Away from Ollie King were also found in the same pack) and the saxophone sample heard in both Vela Nova from Sonic Rush and Oldies But Happies from Jet Set Radio Future!

 

There's probably more I'm missing but... for now that's what comes to mind. Rebuilding this topic is gonna be a pain.

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ThunderShark

Excellent finds, Spindash! I don't know what we'd do without you (although it'd be nice to know which sample pack you were referring to). As for the lost sample research, my Sonic samples list is still going strong, so I'd say we've got a pretty good chunk of the work back.

 

I've made several more discoveries lately, such as a sample of "Bring the Noise" by Public Enemy (0:16) present in "#8th SPACE" from Sonic the Hedgehog - Remix (0:12), as well as the reuse of a short drum break in not only "Area - Tropical Resort" (0:14) and "Area - Terminal Velocity" (0:00) from Sonic Colors, but also in "Rival Battle: Metal Sonic" (0:22) from Sonic Generations. I have yet to identify a source on that one, so maybe you can run through Naofumi Hataya's commonly used sample packs and see if you can find it.

 

Anyway, it sucks that we lost all that progress, but I'm confident we can make it back up with the help of all the lovely Sega sample researchers we've picked up through this thread. Here's to a new year of sample adventures!

 

IMPORTANT EDIT:

You're not gonna believe this. I just tested that guitar riff by playing it alongside "Somethin' Jazzy" and "Windmill Isle Day," and I've discovered that the sample matches up with "Windmill Isle Day," NOT "Somethin' Jazzy." This means Naganuma was the one who re-recorded the sample, or otherwise, he found a very similar sample from a different source.

 

Listen to it here. The order goes like this: the isolated sample, the sample combined with "Somethin' Jazzy," the sample combined with "Windmill Isle Day," then all of them together.

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Yeah I tried combining the riff with Somethin Jazzy the other day and first thing I realized personally is how it's more... 'sharp', for lack of a better word, in that song. It might still be the same sample with a bit of editing done to it though, I think it still has those two high pitched strums from the end of the sample in it too so maybe he cut it up a bit. Maybe we'll never know for sure. Either way it was from a SoundScan sample pack named 'Bossa Brazil' whilst the Teknopathetic/BGA stuff came from another one called Funky Vocals.

 

And speaking of that pack whilst I was looking through it again today I found this! It's a hard to hear case without listening to the MIDI ripped from the rom but this sample can be heard in the very back of Jeh Jeh Rocket from Sonic Rush, adding another sample to our recreation of the track that's pretty much nearing completion by this point.

 

All samples left can be heard in this strip-down of the MIDI with only their channels left.

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You're not gonna believe this. I just tested that guitar riff by playing it alongside "Somethin' Jazzy" and "Windmill Isle Day," and I've discovered that the sample matches up with "Windmill Isle Day," NOT "Somethin' Jazzy."

 

Well, yeah. I could've told you that. :/ Different notes, different type of guitar... come on, man.

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ThunderShark

Well, yeah. I could've told you that. :/ Different notes, different type of guitar... come on, man.

 

The reason I'm making such a big deal of this is because the generally accepted theory was that Naganuma used the sample first in "Somethin' Jazzy," then Ohtani interpolated or rerecorded it for "Windmill Isle Day." From the looks of it, that theory is out the window at this point, since we now know that Ohtani was the one who used the unaltered original sample.

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I'm 100% it's not even the same sample, altered, or otherwise. They're two different samples that sound the same.

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No, listen closely and you'll find they're literally different guitars. I'm hearing what I think it nylon in the Windmill Isle one, and steel on Something Jazzy. While it's entirely possible they come from the same pack, they're definitely different samples.

 

Plus, producers aren't magicians. For Naganuma to have altered the Windmill Isle sample means he would have had to isolate and pitch shift every individual note and pan them all to get it to sound like what it does, which you just can't do and with the best equipment because it's simply not possible. It's Occam's Razor at play here.

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ThunderShark

No, listen closely and you'll find they're literally different guitars.

 

This is what I'm getting at. Either Naganuma found an extremely similar sample or he rerecorded/interpolated it himself. The former seems more likely since Naganuma, to my knowledge, doesn't play guitar, but we won't know until we find a sample that proves otherwise.

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I'm firmly banking on the former. Bossa Nova songs tend to not sound very different from each other already; why would the case be different for sample packs?

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Arcade Child

Only just found out about the forum crash and the subsequent loss of a lot of research; a massive bummer indeed, but I do think a lot of the information/finds we collected are documented in different places, so that softens the blow a little bit. I keep meaning to put together a document with my own finds/musings at some point, so that'll help fill in some of the blanks we might be missing.

 

Regarding the whole Windmill Isle/Something Jazzy guitar sample; although this is purely a guess on my part, it could very well be a similar case as that old fiddle sample people used to insist was taken from that one Grandia song, and it's a common motif in the style of music the sample represents, like Dizcybe is saying. They do sound remarkably similar, but they're very obviously different samples from entirely different packs, so it's a safe guess to bet it's a motif or something. Which packs they ARE from, though, I don't think we ever found out (unless someone did and I'm just forgetting), so that much is (possibly) still up in the air.

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So quite a while ago, a guitar sample was found inside Sony's Methods of Mayhem sample pack, this sample in particular. After pitching it up a little bit it was automatically assured to have been used in the intro to The Concept of Love from JSRF. And that was that.

 

But today I took another listen through the pack and... um...

 

These thirteen riffs are all suspects to my ears of being the guitar sample used in both Metal Scratchin' from Rush and LUST 4 POWER from Yakuza: Black Panther 2.

 

Closer listen at Metal Scratchin's case here if anyone wants.

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