Sonic Lost World's supposedly dark dialouge

[FromASloth]

Because this was going to be discussed sooner or later.

 

Okay, so I woke up this morning to find this article discussing some of the quotes from the upcoming game Sonic Lost World. It should be noted that the ESRB rating gave this game a higher age rating than previous titles that have come out recently (Unleashed, Colors, Generations). Part of that reason might be revealed when considering the rating summary stated by the ESRB regarding its questionable dialogue. Here's the rating summary quoted here from ersb.org:

 

Rating Summary: In this action platformer, players control Sonic the Hedgehog as he attempts to stop an evil villain's plans. As players zoom through fantastical landscapes, they collect items (e.g., gold rings and power-ups), avoid hazards, and use spin attacks to defeat robotic enemies; enemies break apart amid colorful explosions. During gameplay, characters sometimes use aggressive language (e.g., “You're going home in a box,” 'I'm going to skin you alive,' and 'I long for death's cold embrace.'). Cutscenes also depict laser fire and explosions, as well as dialogue that references violence (e.g., “I'll get fat from eating your black hearts,” “One second you're contemplating genocide,” and “As long as I can still strangle a Zeti, my hands are fine.”).

 

 

I think we need to put some things in perspective before freaking out over Lost World's story.

 

The first thing we know is that Ken Pontiac is doing the writing again for Lost World. If you don't already know, Pontac along with Warren Graff have been the writers for Colors and Generation's storylines so far. What's even more notable is that both writers are well known for Happy Tree Friends and Mad World's writing as well, both which has incredibly dark humor (in fact, HTF is banned in Russia for its graphic, gory and violent nature. ESPECIALLY gory). This could be the link as to why dialogue like this shows up in a Sonic game, but I'm gonna level with you for a minute.

 

Do you remember Eggman's PA announcements in Colors? Y'know, as you traverse some of the amusement park the PA system will sound off Eggman advising guests on some interesting info on the park? Well, let me give you some of those quotes (thanks TV Tropes for helping me find these):

 

Eggman: "Next stop: the Sweet Mountain. Enjoying our candy paradise is the perfect way to celebrate your next birthday...or to avoid reaching it."

 

Eggman: "Please don't be concerned by any screaming aliens. The screams are how they communicate. Really. I promise."

 

Eggman: We seem to be losing pressure on Level 17. Please hold your breath against the harsh vacuum of space until you pass out from oxygen starvation. After that, you won't care. Enjoy the ride!"

 

In fact, here's a video with ALL the PA announcements from Eggman throughout the game:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvS7ewAkwEA

 

Trust me, there are some dark quotes here, guys. Wanna know why they don't bother anyone? They were put in a humorous context. Who's to say that Lost World doesn't do the same thing? We can't automatically assume that just because these quotes are immediately presented they're trying to make the game "edgy" or "dark" (you honestly can't tell me by looking at SLW's artwork that they're trying to make it edgy). It's more than likely that Lost World puts these in a humorous, sarcastic light like Colors did rather than putting it seriously, and I'll take a sarcastic blue hedgehog any day of the week. I have faith in believing that Pontac knows Sonic the Hedgehog is for children and won't put anything that a child honestly wouldn't be able to hear.

 

It should also be noted that the ESRB just took the quotes out of order. Their job is to pick out the quotes that might rub parents the wrong way, after all. That doesn't automatically mean the writing is entirely set up like this, it just means it's written in the game SOMEWHERE, even if it's like the PA announcements where it passes over your head in the game.

 

Bottom line: no need to freak out. We won't have a solid answer on this game's writing until October 18 (or 22 for the US) anyway, so we'll have answers in due time.

 

So, how do you guys feel about these quotes from Lost World? Do you like them, do you feel uncomfortable with it's direction, or do you just not care to begin with? And what kind of dialogue are you expecting from SLW in general?

Edited August 1, 2013 by FromASloth

[KrazyBean]

I flippin' LOVE the dark dialogue and I fail to see the problem with it. Hopefully the context makes sense.

Edited August 1, 2013 by KrazyBean

[spinny]

I hated this dialogue at first, but I'm liking it now. Especially considering my two favourite PA announcements were "Please don't throw toys, trash or small children into the [something i cant remember] pools." and "We seem to be losing air pressure on Level 17. Please hold your breath against the harsh vacuum of space until you pass out from oxygen starvation. After that... you won't care. ENJOY THE RIDE!! :D"

 

I'm perfectly fine with it now, to be honest.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

One day we aren't going to hold double standards on what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed for dialogue, especially considering other media FOR children isn't anywhere NEAR as restrictive as Sonic is forced to be. Sonic excludes everything except for the most bare bone stuff, and frankly we need more stuff that actually proves how stupid this is in the long run.

[Vertekins]

I have doubts that these lines are going to be said in anything other than a comedic context. Zavok's "Lie down and die!" line doesn't strike me as being anything remarkable or objectionable considering other characters have said lines much akin to that one in the past. I guess if the genocide line is attributed to Eggman then perhaps it's a bit of an exaggeration on what he's actually done since I don't believe that Eggman's ever actively planned and/or intended to mass kill.

[Nepenthe]

As I said before, the fact that this conversation even exists perfectly exemplifies my grievances with the way I assume people view Sonic storylines- that they should be completely devoid of or neuter any semblances or language regarding violence and danger, which is at odds with a series where these things are an inherent part of the framework. When you have characters of various moral alignments possessing superhuman abilities and a recurring villain who uses machines in an attempt to conquer the world, then things are going to get messed up and people are going to get hurt, be in danger of getting hurt, and threaten others about getting hurt. I mean, imagine a standard Marvel or DC comic, or a shonen anime, or even an action show like Avatar/Korra with an absolute minimum of violence, fighting, or threatening going on. It's kind of boring and stupid, right? Well, why isn't it stupid here? Sonic is an action-based franchise like these three things. Why are we having this fucking stupid-ass conversation?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

As I said before, the fact that this conversation even exists perfectly exemplifies my grievances with the way I assume people view Sonic storylines- that they should be completely devoid of or neuter any semblances or language regarding violence and danger, which is at odds with a series where these things are an inherent part of the framework. When you have characters of various moral alignments possessing superhuman abilities and a recurring villain who uses machines in an attempt to conquer the world, then things are going to get messed up and people are going to get hurt, be in danger of getting hurt, and threaten others about getting hurt. I mean, imagine a standard Marvel or DC comic, or a shonen anime, or even an action show like Avatar/Korra with an absolute minimum of violence, fighting, or threatening going on. It's kind of boring and stupid, right? Well, why isn't it stupid here? Sonic is an action-based franchise like these three things. Why are we having this fucking stupid-ass conversation?

Like I said, double standards.

[Diogenes]

Let's be fair, SLoW's lines seem a lot more forward than Colors'. Colors slips a few oblique references to death and violence in the background chatter, while SLoW is apparently putting more blatant threats and references in cutscenes and boss dialogue. It's rougher than the series is usually written, and considering that trying to go dark has led to some of the worst writing in the series, I think it's fair for people to be surprised and cautious about this.

Personally, I'm not against the series trying to put itself on a level above Heroes/Colors/Generations sort of writing, but they haven't yet proven that they can do it right. I'm holding my judgment until we hear them in context, when we'll be able to tell if they're properly writing a darker tone or if they're just trying to be edgy.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Let's be fair, SLoW's lines seem a lot more forward than Colors'. Colors slips a few oblique references to death and violence in the background chatter, while SLoW is apparently putting more blatant threats and references in cutscenes and boss dialogue. It's rougher than the series is usually written, and considering that trying to go dark has led to some of the worst writing in the series, I think it's fair for people to be surprised and cautious about this.

Personally, I'm not against the series trying to put itself on a level above Heroes/Colors/Generations sort of writing, but they haven't yet proven that they can do it right. I'm holding my judgment until we hear them in context, when we'll be able to tell if they're properly writing a darker tone or if they're just trying to be edgy.

I suppose you have a point. Still, the level of suspicion the fan base's suspicions has frankly become full blown paranoia of anything remotely interesting, and it's way overstayed its welcome in many aspects.

[FromASloth]

Let's be fair, SLoW's lines seem a lot more forward than Colors'. Colors slips a few oblique references to death and violence in the background chatter, while SLoW is apparently putting more blatant threats and references in cutscenes and boss dialogue. It's rougher than the series is usually written, and considering that trying to go dark has led to some of the worst writing in the series, I think it's fair for people to be surprised and cautious about this.

Personally, I'm not against the series trying to put itself on a level above Heroes/Colors/Generations sort of writing, but they haven't yet proven that they can do it right. I'm holding my judgment until we hear them in context, when we'll be able to tell if they're properly writing a darker tone or if they're just trying to be edgy.

I can understand why it would be a concern to Sonic fans, considering what directions the Sonic series has gone in the past. I just don't believe well enough that it's gonna send the game spiraling into Shadow the Hedgehog/Sonic 06 territory. You need to have a certain level of "really fucked it up" to make it past that point.

 

I'm leaning towards just trying to set a little bit more tone to the writing rather than making it unnecessarily edgy.

[Nepenthe]

I don't think there has to be an apparent duality at play though- that either these lines must be well-written exemplifications of darkness or they're automatically juvenile edginess that take away from the experience. Comparing this game to all of the media it's competing against, these lines are just generic references to bad things that have a probability of happening in a universe where bad things can feasibly happen, and are ultimately no more noteworthy than the stuff you'd find in other works of similar genres. I can't see these lines as inherently problematic unless we're operating under the belief that it is impossible for the franchise to play in contexts featuring blatant violence, which again I feel is opposed to its themes in the first place. Operating on a viewpoint concerning mere talent, e.g., bad games in the past had dark dialogue, ergo dark dialogue is a sign of a bad game, is at least based on precedence- however flimsy it may be- but nonetheless has an easy fix anyway: hire better writers.

[nethrium]

I love how all the sites are making a big deal about this.

I checked on the ESRB site, and all these sonic games have a E10 rating

sonic and all-stars racing transformed

sonic and sega all-stars racing

sonic adventure 2

sonic and the black knight

sonic unleashed

and sonic 06

[RobotOmega]

I think Eggman blowing up the moon is WAY darker than these quotes.

 

I'm not concerned.

[Mr Useful]

I love how all the sites are making a big deal about this.

I checked on the ESRB site, and all these sonic games have a E10 rating

sonic and all-stars racing transformed

sonic and sega all-stars racing

sonic adventure 2

sonic and the black knight

sonic unleashed

and sonic 06

Well Sonic and the Black Knight and Unleashed have cartoon violence(and Knuckles nearly performed suicide in SatBK). 06 was trying to be gritty and Sonic died on screen. You had me at SA2 though.

[spinny]

Well Sonic and the Black Knight and Unleashed have cartoon violence(and Knuckles nearly performed suicide in SatBK). 06 was trying to be gritty and Sonic died on screen. You had me at SA2 though.

 

SA2 has Eggman blow up the moon, threaten to blow up the earth, Shadow 'dies', Gerald had his granddaughter shot and went insane, Eggman holds Amy at gunpoint and threatens to shoot her right there and then.

 

And also...

 

 

I love how all the sites are making a big deal about this.

I checked on the ESRB site, and all these sonic games have a E10 rating

sonic and all-stars racing transformed

sonic and sega all-stars racing

sonic adventure 2

sonic and the black knight

sonic unleashed

and sonic 06

 

More than anything, we're shocked by this because of how light-hearted the main series has been taken since Colours. 06 was nearly 10 years ago. Seeing this dialogue was quite jarring at first.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Satoru Iwata

[TitanWarlord93]

Ever since I played the first Sonic 3D game (Sonic Adventure), I have not any problems with the cartoon violence and gritty, dark and edgy storylines/dialogue but there are some parts where it gets a bit too much.

 

Another example would be in Sonic Unleashed and the cutscene where Dark Gaia was about to upgrade into his perfect form and I saw a close up of some of that weird jelly moving stuff (I don't know what that is) which can be a bit disturbing and it reminds me of something out of Resident Evil.

 

The dialogue in Shadow The Hedgehog was cringeworthy for me. The word 'Damn' is used a lot and it makes the characters sound like wannabe gangsters.

 

The storybook games are the ones that I find was a good example of strong and powerful dialogues in the series.

 

It has been done before and the writers might not be afraid to do it again if they wanted to and if they can set the right tone for it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

My stance is exactly what I said in the announcement topic: The fact that we're even having this conversation just goes to show how much of a knee jerk reaction people have towards anything with dark connotations.

 

Meanwhile, other cartoons get crap past the radar or are as subtle as a brick in not just dialogue, but actions. So you heard "genocide" in a Sonic game? Big deal, Kung Fu Panda 2 shows you genocide within the first 5 minutes. So you heard the word "die" in the game? We fucking saw how Mufasa died mid-way through the first Lion King...hell, it doesn't take context clues to figure out what happened to Bambi's mom after hearing the gunshot. Or what about the Rise of the Guardians and what happens to the Sandman?

 

This stuff is candles compared other stuff that goes on in past and present media.

Edited August 1, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[-Mark-]

Personally, I think the fact that people are even considering these quotes as 'dark' shows just how pitifully weak and lighthearted the writing has been in recent years. 

[Sonic The Badass]

As I said before, the fact that this conversation even exists perfectly exemplifies my grievances with the way I assume people view Sonic storylines- that they should be completely devoid of or neuter any semblances or language regarding violence and danger, which is at odds with a series where these things are an inherent part of the framework. When you have characters of various moral alignments possessing superhuman abilities and a recurring villain who uses machines in an attempt to conquer the world, then things are going to get messed up and people are going to get hurt, be in danger of getting hurt, and threaten others about getting hurt. I mean, imagine a standard Marvel or DC comic, or a shonen anime, or even an action show like Avatar/Korra with an absolute minimum of violence, fighting, or threatening going on. It's kind of boring and stupid, right? Well, why isn't it stupid here? Sonic is an action-based franchise like these three things. Why are we having this fucking stupid-ass conversation?

This

 

As far as I'm concerned sonic should be more like a japanese action anime:

 

allow swearing (as long as it isn't like shadow the hedgehog)

 

permanent and short term injuries (permanent is like a eye being stabbed and the scar remaining short term injures someone and keeps them out a part of the game) 

 

more villains than eggman, ALOT more. (and eggmans schemes dont have to be ruined within one game)

 

allow blood (no gore)

 

allow deeper and darker storyline

 

add more expendable characters (that don't have to get killed off in the game they debut in, some can, but more long term expendables!!) 

 

allow darker/serious (and sometimes playful) dialogue

 

and for the most part, give sonic back that attitude he had in the 90s. he seems more like goku now.

 

Those things would make sonic PG/PG-13 E+10/T Which I would be totally fine with, as for the children, i see most kids play CoD as soon as they were big enough to hold a controller. Sonic being a E+10/T experience should be fine for the younger audience. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by Insane121

[Ravenfreak]

I absolutely love the dark dialogue in this game, and honestly even though sonic is targeted towards a young audience I honestly don't see the big deal with this dialogue being in this game. At least like I stated in the "Lost world announced" thread, they're not over using the same curse word every other line. I also don't see why we can't discuss something like this, there's only been a few Sonic games with suggestive language and or dialogue in it and I suppose creates some serious discussions. (Since Sonic is very serious business. xD)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Ravenfreak

[Badnik Zero]

So this game is not rated G basically, it's rated PG.

 

Disney villains speak in these types of menacing tones, skinning included. I don't really find issue with it, bad villains make good villains. It might be more graphic than Eggman, but I guess that's the point since it's not him then is it.

 

My favorite Eggman threat is from Unleashed, which had different writing. "Ho ho ho! This gorge will be your tomb!"

 

Pretty badass quote for one of the final bosses of the game.

Edited August 2, 2013 by American Ristar

[Wittymations]

I'm very okay with the darker lines. I feel this game was insulting its audience (children very much included) with the oversimplification.

 

 

Trust me, there are some dark quotes here, guys. Wanna know why they don't bother anyone? They were put in a humorous context.

You sure it wasn't because no body could hear it over the loud music? The only real funny part of that game and the music covered it up.

[Teoskaven]

The first thing we know is that Ken Pontiac is doing the writing again for Lost World. If you don't already know, Pontac along with Warren Graff have been the writers for Colors and Generation's storylines so far. What's even more notable is that both writers are well known for Happy Tree Friends and Mad World's writing as well, both which has incredibly dark humor (in fact, HTF is banned in Russia for its graphic, gory and violent nature. ESPECIALLY gory). This could be the link as to why dialogue like this shows up in a Sonic game, but I'm gonna level with you for a minute.

 

Sorry, but personally, both Colors and Generations have pretty weak stories, possibly even less then the old Genesis/Mega Drive games. Lost World seems promising, but i'm not getting my hopes very up for now.

And for the record, almost all the writing of MadWorld was made by Yasumi Matsuno, even though it's possible that Pontiac and Graff gave their humor touch.

 

On topic: i honestly don't care if someone is worried about a more adult language: as long as it's funny and it's used in the proper context, i don't see any problems.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Teoskaven

[Sonic The Badass]

I already stated how I'd like to see the series, but as for lost world itself, the artwork wouldn't fit that XD

 

hell, I don't think anything dark fits it. but then again htf is all cute and cuddly til something goes wrong....

 

if they try a serious darker approach they would need to change something in the design, it feels to much like happiness and sunshine with a tad of villian

[InfinityAlex]

I don't even know what "that one line" is.