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Are you satisfied with the direction of the series; if not what would you change?


Kuzu

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I don't think they can't pull this off, in fact, I'd like to see them try. I don't like the assumption that just because I don't feel they need to do these things, all things considered, that I think they're incompetent.

 

Fair enough, but that's not what I was saying. In essence, we now see eye-to-eye on the matter except how these things relate to our personal experiences.

 

However, I feel the whole "they need to fix the gameplay first before doing anything else" sentiment is inherently mired in this assumption, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. Because either the gameplay is fixed or it's not fixed. But by all rights, Colors and Generations were fixed considering how positive the reception to them was. So what now are we now specifically waiting for?

 

Also, we keep saying that experimentation is good, but what about experimentation with other characters and story is so bad or unimportant that it needs to be put off continuously until tomorrow? Why can't these things be a part of that gameplay experimentation and the overall experience?

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Fair enough, but that's not what I was saying. In essence, we now see eye-to-eye on the matter except how these things relate to our personal experiences.

 

However, I feel the whole "they need to fix the gameplay first before doing anything else" sentiment is inherently mired in this assumption, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. Because either the gameplay is fixed or it's not fixed. But by all rights, Colors and Generations were fixed considering how positive the reception to them was. So what now are we now specifically waiting for?

 

Also, we keep saying that experimentation is good, but what about experimentation with other characters and story is so bad or unimportant that it needs to be put off continuously until tomorrow? Why can't these things be a part of that gameplay experimentation and the overall experience?

 

I don't think we're specifically waiting for anything now, and I think after Lost World they won't be scared to add more characters to maybe the story and especially the gameplay now. I mean, if Lost World is critically acclaimed with a brand new gameplay style right off the bat there shouldn't be an excuse.

 

And I suppose you do have a point there, if they can experiment with gameplay they can experiment with everything else. I never actually thought of it that way, now that I stop to think about it...

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I..don't know where it looks like I'm talking down to anyone here. And I never said it would suddenly suck. What the hell? Of course a game has more than gameplay that makes it up. I never denied this.

 

I do notice something here, it's the word "potential". It's used so often it makes me almost sick of saying or using the word myself, and there's a problem when you try to say the games are worse because they aren't using their full "potential".

 

Put it like this.

 When you measure something of a finite amount to "potential" you are already comparing it to something that is infinite, something that cannot be measured. If you do that anything will be comparably worse because it's not using it's full "potential".

 This is the mentality used with the modern games.

 And at it's core it makes no logical sense.

 

Comparing anything to "potential" will just make the actual, finite of amount the product is look comparably worse because you're already making an imaginary scale to stack it and your potential onto it. And since potential of course could be literally anything, that scale is going to be easily more heavy on the side of "potential" because it's infinite.

 

I've already said that I don't expect perfection, that's an impossible goal because nobody knows what perfection actually is. I do however expect things to gradually improve over time, for developers to learn from their mistakes and figure out what went wrong and improve on it, for them to excel at whatever they're trying to do. Don't just make a game that is just inoffensive, make a game that' great at what it does.

 

The reason I feel the current games aren't living to their potential is because rather than fix and improve the things that went wrong before, they've just swept the problems under the rug and are actively ignoring them. I mean what do you call that other than wasted potential when they could just do the logical thing and just simply fix what they broke.

 

And just so we're clear, I'm not talking about gameplay because everyone generally agrees that its good enough.

Edited by Azure Yakuzu
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I don't think we're specifically waiting for anything now, and I think after Lost World they won't be scared to add more characters to maybe the story and especially the gameplay now. I mean, if Lost World is critically acclaimed with a brand new gameplay style right off the bat there shouldn't be an excuse.

 

And I suppose you do have a point there, if they can experiment with gameplay they can experiment with everything else. I never actually thought of it that way, now that I stop to think about it...

 

I can only hope they're going to take Lost World's potential success as a sign that they can begin expanding in other areas and not a sign that we hate the things they left out.

 

Granted, if we were to theoretically be going with a Sonic-only direction for the foreseeable future, it would probably shoo out the elephant in the room to have more self-contained stories involving only Sonic, like in the vain of the Storybook games. There's always going to be a dissonance between having characters as story fodder compared to the expectation that we had the option or ability to use them throughout the series' past. Basically, it feels like they're just going half-way on a situation that has a decidedly simple yet more robust solution.

 

Also... they really need to make the gameplay and level design shine, and I mean really shine, either in the contextual manner I stated in my first post or just cranking out old fashioned level design dependent upon timing and the seat of your own wit and reflexes. Half of the excitement I have for the Parkour gameplay was that it would facilitate Rayman Origins or Donkey Kong Country Returns-like design where there's an organic flow and timing built throughout the level that can be achieved with clever use of all of your skills, preferably with a hard-as-nails difficulty level. The thought alone is enough to almost make me forget about everything else.

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I'm happy overall. Only things of change are these:

- The writing being a bit better, ESPECIALLY after Generations shitty excuse for a story. Thankfully, Lost World is raising my hopes on this.

- For Tails, Knuckles, and (maybe) Amy to be playable in future games

- Have Metal Sonic show up more often as a part of Eggmans group. Plus make him have a bit of a rivalry with Orbot and Cubot.

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bored-girl.jpg

EDIT: This picture accurately describes my enthusiasm when it comes to the direction Sonic is taking, even though I don't think it is bad. It just doesn't appeal to me.

Edited by Palas
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I'm sorry, I really can't elaborate further. I just see the new gimmicks and think "oh". Nothing else. Of course, I couldn't play it yet, but it doesn't interest me in the slightest. There are things I find smart, there are things I find dumb, but overall SLW seems like the beginning the big bang of a universe full of meh.

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I've already said that I don't expect perfection, that's an impossible goal because nobody knows what perfection actually is. I do however expect things to gradually improve over time, for developers to learn from their mistakes and figure out what went wrong and improve on it, for them to excel at whatever they're trying to do. Don't just make a game that is just inoffensive, make a game that' great at what it does.

 

The reason I feel the current games aren't living to their potential is because rather than fix and improve the things that went wrong before, they've just swept the problems under the rug and are actively ignoring them. I mean what do you call that other than wasted potential when they could just do the logical thing and just simply fix what they broke.

 

And just so we're clear, I'm not talking about gameplay because everyone generally agrees that its good enough.

 

In that regard, I'm not 100% certain it's as easy as "let's just fix what went wrong" when they literally got so many things wrong it left a horrible scar on the series that's only just of now beginning to heal and go away. Saying Sonic '06 nearly killed the franchise wouldn't be an understatement. Besides, when you have fans and critics alike having seizures at the sight of Shadow and Silver appearing in Generations, I imagine Sonic Team throwing their arms up in the air and saying, "Goddamnit".

 

The only clear thing they could do is to actively ignore the baseless criticisms and just stuff what they want into there anyway. Not that they've tried that yet exactly, but I could see it happening sooner than later. As of the modern games, Orbot and Cubot are now recurring characters along with Eggman, something he's never had before, Sonic and Tails' chemistry was bought into the spotlight in Colors and it seems to be staying solid from what we've seen. The way I see it, things are progressing. Slowly, but surely.

 

I can only hope they're going to take Lost World's potential success as a sign that they can begin expanding in other areas and not a sign that we hate the things they left out.

 

Granted, if we were to theoretically be going with a Sonic-only direction for the foreseeable future, it would probably shoo out the elephant in the room to have more self-contained stories involving only Sonic, like in the vain of the Storybook games. There's always going to be a dissonance between having characters as story fodder compared to the expectation that we had the option or ability to use them throughout the series' past. Basically, it feels like they're just going half-way on a situation that has a decidedly simple yet more robust solution.

 

Also... they really need to make the gameplay and level design shine, and I mean really shine, either in the contextual manner I stated in my first post or just cranking out old fashioned level design dependent upon timing and the seat of your own wit and reflexes. Half of the excitement I have for the Parkour gameplay was that it would facilitate Rayman Origins or Donkey Kong Country Returns-like design where there's an organic flow and timing built throughout the level that can be achieved with clever use of all of your skills, preferably with a hard-as-nails difficulty level. The thought alone is enough to almost make me forget about everything else.

 

I don't think Sonic being the only playable character would make the other characters in the series any less important if they were given something decent to do in the story itself. You could say it would add more depth to the game if you actually got to go through what those characters had to yourself, so you were advancing the narrative the entire time, and I wouldn't particularly disagree with that notion either. It's all in execution, really...

 

I think the ultimate test here would be putting this new parkour-ish style into more grounded, wider Sonic locations. If they can manage to make it work well in tubes then putting him in wide expanses shouldn't be too difficult provided they make it clear what is and isn't interactive, or go even further than that and make sure nearly everything is able to be interacted with. I'm not sure about Lost World delivering on the "organic" part when I look at how tubular and how specific the shapes of the structures are, but it looks like the type of game that would require some practice before you can get through with decent flow, but it looks certainly possible.

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In that regard, I'm not 100% certain it's as easy as "let's just fix what went wrong" when they literally got so many things wrong it left a horrible scar on the series that's only just of now beginning to heal and go away. Saying Sonic '06 nearly killed the franchise wouldn't be an understatement. Besides, when you have fans and critics alike having seizures at the sight of Shadow and Silver appearing in Generations, I imagine Sonic Team throwing their arms up in the air and saying, "Goddamnit".

 

The only clear thing they could do is to actively ignore the baseless criticisms and just stuff what they want into there anyway. Not that they've tried that yet exactly, but I could see it happening sooner than later. As of the modern games, Orbot and Cubot are now recurring characters along with Eggman, something he's never had before, Sonic and Tails' chemistry was bought into the spotlight in Colors and it seems to be staying solid from what we've seen. The way I see it, things are progressing. Slowly, but surely.

 

Alright, I'm gonna set something straight here: I know 06 was a bad game, I know it left the series in an extremely dire state that people to this day do not forget, and forcibly remind the audience of such.

 

Now here's what I don't understand; In that time since 06, we've had generally acclaimed games. Despite its problems, Secret Rings got respectable scores, the day half of Unleashed was at least enjoyed by all, Colors is generally considered a good game, and Generations even moreso with Lost World continuing. Now, is the series truly in a state of disarray? Because if that was the case, none of those wouldn't have gotten a lick of praise and yet they did. How many years is 06 going to haunt us, how many more games need to come out before they bring back the elements I loved in the series.

 

I keep being told to wait and see; I've been waiting for five years, and I'm still waiting yet no attempt at implementing the elements I feel the series could use has been made. So how much more waiting will I have to do? Because my patience is slowly wearing thin. When I've seen other series do their best at accommodating their fans, take feedback from them and do their best at communication, and I have to be told to wait for this with Sonic? Please tell me, why should I wait when all I've been given for my waiting are empty promises and excuses?

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I suspect they're going to need a game that's genuinely "wow"-worthy and not just mostly competent before they can fully shake off '06.

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I suspect they're going to need a game that's genuinely "wow"-worthy and not just mostly competent before they can fully shake off '06.

Same here.

 

Even with all the successes since then, there are people who keep going "Nope! Sonic 06! LOLOLOLOLOL!" every time you mention Sonic's recovery.

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I'm pretty happy with how things are going thus far, assuming Lost World continues the momentum gained by Colours and Generations. Sure, I'd like a few more playable characters and a tighter narrative, but I'm not too fussed. As long as Lost World has good gameplay, music and visuals then I'm content. 

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Same here.

 

Even with all the successes since then, there are people who keep going "Nope! Sonic 06! LOLOLOLOLOL!" every time you mention Sonic's recovery.

 

Absolutely. Many of the people that I know say they won't say this franchise will ever recover until it makes something that's as ground breaking as a modern Super Mario 64 / Ocarina of Time (or in their exact words, a Sonic Adventure 3.)

 

As to what I think about the gameplay in this change of direction... it's good. The Boost formula from Unleashed to Generations was a really great gameplay style for the series to me, as there was potential for a good blend of speed and platforming. While the first two games either had a majority of one or the other respectively, they were fantastic to play either way. Generations did end it off with a bang, though I wish it could have stayed for at least a few more games before making a new style. With that said, this Parkour style is looking alright from what I can see so far. Again, it looks fun to play.

 

With that said, I'm not complety satisfied on the gameplay front because of, you guessed it, the lack of multiple playable characters. It's another reason why I love games like Sonic 3 & Knux, Sonic Rush and Sonic and the Black Knight. The additional characters were placed in to add variety. You didn't have to play them if you didn't want to, but they opened up new ways to play the game if you chose. As much fun as playing as Sonic is, being able to explore an area as Tails, Knuckles or some other character can be even more so. It's a nice thing to have, and I wish that future games could have more playable characters outside of multiplayer or party games.

 

In theory, this could be an idea for the Wisps too. In Super Mario World, Mario could gain different abilities with different colored Yoshi's and different colored shells. The other characters could combine their abilities with the Wisps in a similar fashion, but I digress.

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Am I satisfied with the direction of the series?

 

In short; Yes. And no.

 

The gameplay looks solid. As much as I liked the boost gameplay, I have high hopes for this new parkour style and I hope SEGA makes something good of it.

 

However.

 

There is a ton of potential the series has, that SEGA just won't use. Things like a deeper storyline (and by 'deep', I don't mean like Final Fantasy. I mean like Unleashed or the two Adventures) or more playable characters for example. I just wish SEGA would stop playing things safe and all that.

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I'm sorry, I really can't elaborate further. I just see the new gimmicks and think "oh". Nothing else. Of course, I couldn't play it yet, but it doesn't interest me in the slightest. There are things I find smart, there are things I find dumb, but overall SLW seems like the beginning the big bang of a universe full of meh.

         I feel the same way. My love for Sonic has not diminished, its just that Im not very excited about Lost Worlds for some reason. Im just kind of meh about it mellow.png . I don't know if its that I am done with the wisps or that I miss playing as other characters. All I know is that its making me bored with the wisp direction of Sonic. In Sonic Colors the wisps were cool. In Sonic Generations I was less excited about them, but understood that they needed to be in the Colors remake levels. But having the wisps in a third game in a row just makes me want to shout, "ALRIGHT ALREADY! Ive had enough with the wisps!". I hope I feel differently about lost worlds once I play it on the DS. 

Edited by Neon The Hedgehog
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Am I the only one that actually hates Sonic Adventure 2? It takes all of the best things from SA1 and throws it away

 

1: Open World: Sonic Adventure 2 had no Hub World so you can't go explore new locations unlike Sonic Adventure. Also

 

2: The story's fantastic, but it would be awesome if it was setup ala "Sonic Adventure" where you can have two sides: good & Evil and pick a character and expand the story even more.

 

3: Game Play was extremely random as it was only suppose to be Sonic, Robotnik, & Knuckles.

 

On topic I want the series to return to the Sonic Adventure 1 style game play. 6 characters plus a hidden one to wrap up the story. Make Hub Worlds again and expand the action zones.

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I guess you could say I am. I like the gameplay and really couldn't care less if the stories are "barren" or not, so I guess I'm satisfied.

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I'm pretty happy with how things are going thus far, assuming Lost World continues the momentum gained by Colours and Generations. Sure, I'd like a few more playable characters and a tighter narrative, but I'm not too fussed. As long as Lost World has good gameplay, music and visuals then I'm content.
My thoughts exactly, and maybe another animated show with the animation of Sonic X and the voice actors from the games would be nice as well, no horrible 4kids editing as well please!!
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My thoughts exactly, and maybe another animated show with the animation of Sonic X and the voice actors from the games would be nice as well, no horrible 4kids editing as well please!!

 

4kids is basically dead now. (So sadly, the new and improved 4kids Sonic cast wouldn't be able to have a go at it.) Nobody else butchers anime, so that's good.

 

...right?

Edited by Spinning Silver
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  • 2 weeks later...

He sorta echos my thoughts a bit...actually a lot.

 

But I'm not exactly as pessimistic over it. I believe that Sonic's old past can adapt and blend with his new present to become a new future (and present) with more focus, brainstorming, risk-taking, without being stupid about it to the point of losing sight of his identity.

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Am I satisfied with the direction of the series?

 

In short; Yes. And no.

 

The gameplay looks solid. As much as I liked the boost gameplay, I have high hopes for this new parkour style and I hope SEGA makes something good of it.

 

However.

 

There is a ton of potential the series has, that SEGA just won't use. Things like a deeper storyline (and by 'deep', I don't mean like Final Fantasy. I mean like Unleashed or the two Adventures) or more playable characters for example. I just wish SEGA would stop playing things safe and all that.

My thoughts exactly. There's one word that sums up the Sonic series for me right now:

 

Potential. Whether it be the new voice cast, playable characters, the Colors writers, dropped gameplay styles, there's a lot of aspects of Sonic that has potential, but hasn't fully reached it yet.

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The Sonic Franchise is actually extremely lucky to have such a dedicated fanbase....during the dark years Sonic should have went the way Crash and Spyro did, but by a miracle it managed to pull through.

 

I don't think Sonic can survive another one of these events though. I much rather Sonic Team take their time and build up reputation than for them to take risk that will end up biting them in the ass. Sonic Team has to be even more cautious because of their money cuts and  they can't afford 1 of tier biggest cash cows to take a plummet again, I'm holding out for the narrative to be decent this go around in Lost World though...

 

While SEGA indeed at fault for the situation they are in, I do believe that the fanbase is being a tad unrealistic with their expectations and being impatient. People are missing the big picture and are not taking in consideration of the company at all. They just want their individual needs to be satisfied. The fact of the matter is the game isn't just for you its for everyone even SEGA themselves to make money for the next Sonic game.

 

I do think Sonic Team need to try a bit harder though, but for people to say Sonic Lost World isn't taking risks is stupid, the fact that the game is actually making people upset from a conceptual stand point is enough proof that its trying somewhat.

 

We will get our next TRY eventually we just have to endure for now. Sega has never been the kind of company to be satisfied with bare bones...going all out and taking risk is kinda their thing.

Edited by Voyant
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